It’s probably impossible to have seen a jazz concert in Los Angeles that hasn’t either had John Clayton performing, or at lease had an artist who either played with once him or has been coached by the legendary Angeleno. As a bassist,he’s on scores of albums, as a big band leader with brother Jeff Clayton and best friend Jeff Hamilton, he leads a big band that has backed artists ranging from John Pizzarelli to Diana Krall. He also leads a small group with family big band co-leaders and son Gerald Clayton and still finds time to not only teach students at USC, but serve as a talent scout for artists like Graham Dechter, Sara Gazarek and Sachal Vasandani. Even better, when we arranged for this phone interview, he called my office at exactly the minute the interview appointment was scheduled. When I complemented him on his punctuality, he set the tone of the interview, as well as his career with a simple summary…
I live to serve!
YOU SAY THAT AS A JOKE, BUT YOU REALLY PUT A LOT OF EFFORT INTO THE LA JAZZ SCENE.
Thank you!
FIRST, SOME HISTORY. WHERE DID YOU FIRST START HEARING MUSIC? FAMILY MEMBERS? CHURCH?
All of the above. My mom is a pianist that played for the church and played for the choirs and in the church. I grew up in a good old Southern Baptist Church. I grew up in Venice and went to Venice High School.
HOW DID YOU GET INTO THE BASS?
I was in Jr. High School, and you could pick an elective art, and I went into the band room, hoping to play an instrument. I looked around and saw this big thing hanging on the wall, and I said, “Wow. Can I play that?” And the band director said “Sure,” and he wrote down my name and wrote the word “Tuba” after it. As I was walking out of the room, I noticed these four gorgeous brown things standing in the corner. You may remember Billy Higgins? He used to say, “You don’t choose the instrument; the instrument chooses you.” That is what exactly what happened to me. I didn’t even know how the thing sounded, but it just beckoned to me. So I asked “Can I play that instead?” So, he crossed off “Tuba” and wrote down my destiny.
That’s really how it started when I was 13. When I got to Venice High School, I heard their big band. I had never heard big band music before in my life. I was blown away by it, and wanted to audition for it. I did, and got in and after some months, the band director saw that I was really taking to it. He got me a private classical teacher. Around that same time I heard my first Ray Brown record, which blew my mind. I asked the classical teacher if he’d heard of Ray Brown, and he said, “Sure. He’s a friend of mine.”I was shocked . He then took out a letter which read “Dear Mr. Segal, Would you please tell your students about an extension course that I’m teaching at UCLA called Workshop in Jazz Bass.” That was my last classical lesson with that guy! (laughs)
I saved $65, enrolled in the course, and that was how I met Ray. That was the beginning of it. I was 16 years old. He saw how hungry, eager and green I was, and took me under his wing.
LOOKING BACK, WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING YOU TOOK FROM HIM DURING THAT TIME?
He really stressed learning the bass from top to bottom. So, we had to learn all of our scales, major and minor, all of our chords and chord types, all of our arpeggios in every key. We had to learn repertoire. That class was life changing. That was the first place I heard recordings of Mingus and Paul Chambers and Sam Jones, Per cy Heath, Scott LaFaro, Eddie Gomez, Richard Davis and on and on. It was an amazing course. I took away everything I needed to become a bass player. I obviously hadn’t progressed very far because it was only a one semester. But pretty much all of the elements were there. I had to just follow them.
BEETHOVEN SYMPHONYS
I found that from the early Beethoven, you get the accessible, and as you progress, it gets meatier. You’ve seen that book The Complete Bass Parts Of. There’s a collection of bass parts books. All of the Beethoven symphonies are in there. And you can just open it up, turn on the records, and play along with all of the symphonies. That also changed my life.
HOW DID YOU GET THE BASIE GIG?
I met Jeff Hamilton at Indiana University. Jeff and our first road gig together while we were at school was with the Tommy Dorsey Big Band. I did it for a summer. Jeff stayed on. Jeff and I stayed close and then we both joined the Monty Alexander band after I graduated. It was my dream to play with Duke Ellington, but he died while I was at IU. But one of my other dreams was to play with Basie. So, when I was with Monty Alexander for a couple of years, even though I planned on continuing with him, I just started thinking, “You know, I missed out on Ellington; Basie’s not getting any younger.” So, I called Ray Brown and told him I’d do anything to play with Count Basie, and could he help me. I knew that he knew Basie. So, he basically called Basie the following day, and I was speaking with him. He told me he heard I wanted to play with him. “Yes sir, Mr. Basie,” I told him. It just so happened by coincidence that his bass player was leaving in two weeks. So, I gave Monty my two week’s notice, and with his blessing I joined Count Basie’s Band.
YOUR LIFE SEEMS TO HAVE THIS PATH WHERE DOORS SEEM TO OPEN UP AND THEN CLOSE RIGHT AFTER YOU, LIKE A SCENE FROM ‘THE WIZARD OF OZ.’
It is that way, in one sense, but first, there has to come the desire. After that is number two, the homework. Even if it hadn’t happened the way it happened, it was bound to happen, because I was hungry!
IT’S LIKE THAT CLASSIC SAYING AT CHURCH, “PRAISE GOD, BUT ROW TO SHORE.”
That’s very true!
WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS TO START BOTH A BIG BAND AND A SMALL GROUP?
After I left Basie, I moved to Holland to play in a Symphony for five years. After that, I came back, I was married and had two kids. I moved to California, which was the first time for my wife and family. I had kept in touch with Jeff Hamilton and remained best friends, as well as with my brother. Even before I moving back, Jeff and I had been talking about how fun it would be to pull something together some day in the future. So, that’s what I did. I got together with Jeff and my brother. My brother Jeff knew all of the great players in LA, so he gave everyone a call, and Jeff Hamilton handled all of the finances. So, we just put this band together. We had a little bit of music, but I soon realized that with the caliber of musicians my brother was bringing into the band, I had to write specifically for these musicians. Bobby Bryce, Snooky Young, Oscar Brashear, George Bohanon, Ira Nepus. I realized that if I was going to pull and keep these guys together (because they didn’t like to rehearse!) I had better get something together that hits the mark with the music. So, I just started writing for them, instead of just writing generic big band music.
That’s kind of how it all started. It was just our dream and our idea. The first gig that we did was when we walked into the Hyatt on Sunset. When we played there, there were more guys on the bandstand than in the audience! Eventually, the more we played there, the more the crowd started to build. We just stuck with it, and now here we are 26-27 years later.
YOU CARRIED THAT BASIE FEEL ALL OF THE TIME
Jeff Hamilton and I were in love with Basie. We used to listen to Thad Jones-Mel Lewis records, Woody Herman records, Basie records. We were in love with all of that stuff. When I was in Basie’s band, I started writing with that influence there. But, there’s also a lot of Oliver Nelson and Quincy Jones in it as well.
YOU SEEM TO RECORD THE SMALL GROUP MORE LATELY, BUT SEEM TO USE THE BIG BAND TO BACK UP ARTISTS LIKE DIANA KRALL AND JOHN PIZZARELLI
I can understand how that impression comes out just because of what’s been happening the last few years. But, the big band is looking to record on our own. But, in the interim, we’re just getting a lot of calls from all of these people that are interested in doing projects together. That’s what been happening. We just did something with Leon Russell, and also with Gladys Knight. We love doing it, but we’re trying to do something that just represents the band.
IN THE OTHER MEANTIME, YOU HAVE THIS OTHER SIDELINE OF BRINGING OUT OTHER ARTISTS INTO THE LIMELIGHT. HOW DO YOU FIND THESE PEOPLE?
You try to kind of keep your ear to the ground and be aware of what’s happening. It’s a give and take, sometimes I’ll hear about them, and other times they’ll be familiar with what I’m doing and want to meet me. It’s a mixture.
HOW DID YOU FIRST MEET DIANA KRALL.
From Jeff Hamilton. He came back from a week at Port Townsend in Washington state. He worked the week as an instructor/performer there, and there was an 18 year old girl who played piano. He came back from that experience and told me, “Hey, there’s a young girl who wants to come down here and study with us, and I think she’s got it.” So, I said sure, whatever.
So, she came down. We didn’t even know that she sang! We just would work with her on trio playing. That’s what she wanted to learn. We became friends, and she became the babysitter for my wife and I! That’s really how we met. She also came to learn a lot from Alan Broadbent and Jimmy Rowles.
IT’S INTERESTING HOW ALL OF THESE PEOPLE LIKE SARA GAZAREK, GRAHAM DECHTER, REGINA CARTER…
There’s another impressive singer out her in the area, Melissa Morgan. She’s great. There’s a recording project that we just did that I think is thrilling. I don’t know when it’s coming out, but everyone will want to hear it.
Sachal Vasandani’s another one. He just keeps flying under the radar, but he’s a dynamite singer. It’s kind of like musicians talk a lot about him, and he does have an underground following that is growing. He just hasn’t been observed by the larger jazz community, but that will happen.
I tell people all the time in the jazz community that I work with, “You will be successful.” The common denominator for people that are successful is that they never quit.
THAT’S THE KEY POINT FOR ALL MUSICIANS. WHY DO SOME “MAKE IT” AND OTHERS JUST GET NEAR THE TOP, BUT NEVER QUITE CLICK?
Because they quit. Now, that could be part of it, but another part of it could be that they just need to take a good look in the mirror. They need to say, ‘So and So and So and So are both getting a lot of opportunities. Why am I not? “ Probably that means that you’ve got to examine yourself and say, “OK, it’s not that I suck; I’m doing my art and my music. I love it. What do I need to add to bring my music up to the next level? It’s really a self-examination thing that people too often don’t embrace, and as a result they blame other things. They’ll say it wasn’t in the cards, the music business isn’t what it used to be, it’s dog eat dog out there, or there aren’t enough opportunities out there or there aren’t enough gigs. But they’ll find a lot of reasons to explain off not coming to grips with, “I don’t quite have my hands around good intonation. I really am not comfortable with those chord changes. You know what, I really don’t feel secure in my delivery.” Whatever it is.
NO MATTER WHAT THE BUSINNESS IS, THAT’S TRUE. I TELL MY KIDS ‘YOU EITHER MAKE REASONS WHY YOU’LL DO IT, OR EXCUSES WHY YOU DIDN’T’
That’s exactly right.
SO, FOR SOME PEOPLE, IT’S MUSICAL, FOR OTHERS IT’S PERSONAL
It’s usually a combination, but more often more towards musical. That’s because people can usually forgive our personality quirks unless you’re truly cruel and evil! (Laughs)
SO, HOW MUCH SHOULD SOMEONE PRACTICE A DAY IF THEY REALLY WANT TO MAKE IT?
That varies from person to person. I prefer to look at how much music how much needs to be added to what a person does, and just focus on that. Get him to fall in love with it and motivate it. That may take less time for certain people.
Also, everyone is talented in different ways. Other people may have to spend more time on something that’s easy for you and vice versa.
YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME WITH FEMALE ARTISTS. DO YOU THINK THAT THERE’S A GLASS CEILING FOR THEM, OR THAT WOMEN NEED AN EXTRA JUMP START ?
I think it might be coincidence. I have been at USC for 21 years, and in that time of teaching there I’ve had maybe 1-2 jazz students. So, I’ve actually worked a lot with guys. The female participation in the jazz feel has been increasing, so that’s awesome. I’ve worked to help both men and women…Benny Green, Sachal Vasandani.
First of all, what you’re asking is something that no artist should be thinking about. You’ll never wake up on a Tuesday morning and say, “Wow! I’ve finally arrived!” Because you’ll never know when you’ve arrived if you’ve arrived. That’s the beauty of art; you never arrive. If you do, then you should probably give it up!
The term “success” is subjective, and you don’t want to focus on that as an artist. You only want to be concerned with the music and allow other people to categorize you as a successful artist. Or, let OTHER people categorize you as a less successful artist. That’s them, viewing your life. All we need to be concerned about is the joy we get by expressing ourselves through music. That’s it. The End.
I often remind my students that they are artists, and art is subjective. So there’s no such thing as ‘the best” bass player or “the best drummer.” There’s not a bass player or drummer or trumpet player that’s “better” than someone else in terms of expression because you can’t judge expression. And that’s what this whole thing is about. As soon as you think that you played a solo that really sucked, someone is going to walk up to you and say, “Wow, that solo you played was so amazing. It just changed my life.”And, conversely, you could think to yourself, “I really nailed that,” and there might be a whole room full of people that are thoroughly unmoved. So, who’s right?
You can’t get hung up on that stuff. So all we can do is focus on expressing ourselves. I tell this to so many students; just focus on expressing yourself with honesty and clarity. That’s it. The honesty we all understand, the clarity is all the stuff we work on. Making sure that we know the melody and can play the chord changes correctly and are comfortable soloing and all of those things. It’s that simple, and people try to make it much more complicated.
LIKE IN RELIGIOUS MATTERS, THE APOSTLE PAUL EVEN SAYS, ‘I HAVEN’T ARRIVED YET; I’M STILL REACHING FORWARD.’
Right. As in art, in terms of expressing yourself and working on this whole music thing, you never arrive. That’s it.
HOW DO YOU KEEP SPIRITUALLY MOTIVATED
I read books, it includes the Bible. I still pray and am connected to God, but I’m not a practicing Baptist anymore.
SPEAKING OF PRACTICING, HOW IS IT PLAYING WITH YOUR SON
It’s just great. People will often say to me, “I can see on your face when you’re playing with him that you’re so proud.” I have to confess to them that “Of course I’m proud, but I have to tell you, that when we’re playing, that smile on my face reflects the fact that I’m playing with this piano player. I don’t even feel him as my son. “ It’s only when we’re done playing that I go, “Oh, yeah, that’s my kid.” But, when we’re playing, it’s just another piano player.
We have a new record coming out, and my son Gerald just recorded with his own trio. I’m really excited about our new record, as it has a new sound for the Clayton Brothers.
IN A WORLD THAT SEEMS MORE DOG-EAT-DOG BY THE MOMENT, AND PARTICULARLY IN A FIELD SUCH AS MUSIC, IT IS A RARE AND ENCOURAGING THING TO OBSERVE AT LEAST ONE GUARDIAN ANGEL IN THE LA JAZZ LIFE. CLAYTON’S INDEFATIGUABLE OPTIMISM, MIXED WITH A HEALTHY DOSE OF PRACTICAL REALITY, IS AN INSPIRATION TO A PLETHORA OF MUSICIANS AND ARTISTS. GIVE HIM A SALUTE BY GETTING HIS LATEST RELEASE AND COME HEAR HIM PLAY ONE HIS MANY ROLES NEXT TIME HE AND HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS PERFORM IN TOWN.