IN ORDER TO BUILD UP APPRECIATION OF THE SURFEIT OF JAZZ TALENT IN THE CITY OF ANGELS, WE AT JAZZWEEKLY.COM ARE DEDICATED TO SPOTLIGHTING VARIOUS LOCAL ARTISTS WHO HAVE STEADILY BUILT UP A CAREER OF PUTTING OUT SOME OF THE BEST THAT JAZZ HAS TO OFFER. DRUMMER JOE LA BARBERA IS ONE OF JAZZ’S LEGENDS, WITH A CAREER FAMED FOR HIS STINT WITH WOODY HERMAN, BUT MORE FAMOUS IS HIS GIG WITH THE LAST BILL EVANS TRIO THAT IS STILL CONSIDERED ONE OF THE GREATEST PIANO TRIOS EVER. TOURING EUROPE AND JAPAN, LA BARBERA KEEPS BUSY WITH HIS OWN LOCAL BAND, AS WELL AS RUNS A LOCAL LABEL (WWW.JAZZCOMPASS.COM) AND STILL FINDS TIME TO JAM WITH HIS BROTHERS, JOE AND PAT.
FIRST, YOU LOOK GREAT. DO YOU HAVE AN EXERCISING REGIMENT?
I stretch every day! I run in the morning, and when I come back I do my weights and then stretch.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PLAYED WITH THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY ?
We recently did the Rochester Jazz Festival with the big band this past summer. That was a really good event. Then, we’re going with the big band to Japan in September. Pat and I have been going to Japan a lot the past couple of years. Usually once or twice. Not as often as I’d like, but it’s better than nothing. We got to spend the holiday with John.
TELL ME ABOUT YOUR TIME WITH WOODY HERMAN
That was my first gig out of the army. Boy, Woody’s band was a band that we all wanted to be on as kids, as so many of our heroes were on that band. Phil Wilson, Jake Hanna and Sal Nistico, and so we all wanted to be in there, and I felt real fortunate get the call and to be able to go and do it. It was a great experience. Woody was the best band leader. He was very patient with a lot of young upstarts. Myself included. Fortunately he also had a few seasoned vets spaced in there between the sections, so we got the benefit of their experience and leadership. It was great being on the road with them. I made a lot of good friends there.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM BEING IN HIS BAND
I got my big band playing skills much improved! I actually could have used about 2 more years with them but at least I was at the point that I could be with a big band and handle myself.
The main thing I learned from Woody in general was how to pace a night’s worth of music. He was so perfect in calling a night’s worth of tunes, pacing the music to satisfying the needs of any given gig. It always seemed to work out just right. Never too many fast tunes. He would balance out the program beautifully. That was the same with Chuck Mangione and Bill Evans. They know how to put together a program.
IT’S FUNNY ABOUT MANGIONE-THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THE LAST TIME A REAL “JAZZ MUSICIAN” HAD HITS ON THE AM RADIO
Well, that’s true. He was pretty popular. When I was with him he wasn’t the BIG hits yet. It was after I left that he had the big hit with “Feels So Good.” He was selling pretty well with “Chase the Clouds Away.” But, he got really popular in the late seventies. It was at a time when instrumental hits were few and far between. Before that the last time anything you could remember was “Desafinado” and before that it was “Take Five.”
WITH HERMAN AND MANGIONE, WERE THE CROWDS YOUNG OR OLD WHEN YOU TOURED WITH THEM?
Pretty mixed. With Woody’s band, it depended on the engagement. If it was a dance, you were obviously going to get the older folks. But if we did a jazz club or festival, it was a mixed crowd. With Chuck, the same thing. He was drawing younger people and older jazz fans as well, because there was enough of a link with Chuck with his association with Dizzy Gillespie and Art Blakey, and his bebop roots to bring up the older fans, and older kids were digging what we were playing. So, we drew quite a diverse crowd, which is what you hope for.
WAS THERE ANY ADVICE THAT MANGIONE GAVE YOUFOR YOUR OWN CAREER?
We didn’t talk very much in terms of do this or do that. The example that he set was that you gotta believe in yourself. He was at a stage in his life where he felt like he wanted to go in a very specific direction. I’m sure some of the diehard jazz fans felt that he was selling out. But, it was the music that he was hearing and composing. To me it felt totally right. We would play at the Village Vanguard or a concert hall and play the exact same tunes. I mean, we might play a few more straightahead tunes in the club, but for the most part it was the same material. What he showed me was that you need to believe in what you’re doing and present it in the best ways possible.
DID YOU GO RIGHT FROM THERE TO EVANS’ BAND?
I left Chuck and went to New York. I was freelancing for about a year. He was auditioning, but I didn’t even bother to go down out for the audition because I really didn’t want to travel anymore. By this point, I had been travelling with Woody’s band, I’d been out with Chuck for four years, with Gary Burton for another year. Still doing some touring with John Scofield and some other guys around town. But, I didn’t want to commit to a regular touring thing, because I was recently married and I wanted to see if I could just stay around town like a lot of my buddies were doing and earn some kind of a living.
But, I was working with Toots Thieleman at a club in town, and Bill and Helen Keane (his manager)came in and heard a set. The next day Helen called and asked me if I’d please go down to the Village Vanguard and play a set with him. So, I went down to play a set. Toots actually timed his performances so that I could arrange the walk from one club to another. So I played a set with him. The next night she called and offered me the gig.
Bill and I were both pretty provisional with each other at first, only in the sense that I didn’t want to commit to touring, and he wanted to make sure that I was the right guy. We went to Philadelphia, played at a club for a week opposite Art Blakey. I can’t remember the name of the joint. By the end of the week, I was pretty much hooked on playing with the guy, and so, I said I was willing to stay, and he said, “Great.”That was it; that was the whole audition period.
WHAT HOOKED YOU ABOUT PLAYING WITH EVANS?
It’s hard to explain, man. It’s like When you’re on the bandstand with someone that great, and feeling what you’re feeling and realizing the potential of your own playing as the result of rubbing elbows with a real great guy, it’s addictive. In a big way. It was just the best music I had ever played in my life, and I realized that it was just the beginning!
IN RETROSPECT, IS IT SURPRISING TO YOU HOW MUCH OF THE MUSIC OF THAT BAND ARE RECORDINGS OF LIVE CONCERTS?
Well, most of the stuff that is out there was done illegally. People had tape recordings everywhere; some of it is better quality than others. The only official recordings that we did were the ones done at the Vanguard, which became a boxed set. The Last Waltz. We were actually only recordings 3-4 nights to put out one lp. There weren’t even cds back then! Then there’s the one in studio with Tom Harrell and Larry Schneider, We’ll Meet Again. Subsequently, then, after Bill had passed, they decided to release a radio broadcast we had done in Paris called the Paris Concerts One and Two. Those were really the only ones we had on the books, per se. But then a whole bunch of stuff surfaced and started getting released, so there’s now a ton of stuff out there that represents the trio. Mostly it is live stuff, as that’s where most people had access to the music with their taping machines.
DO YOU EVER GO BACK AND LISTEN TO IT?
I haven’t listened to it in quite awhile. Once in awhile I hear something on the radio, and it’s always a great memory.I love the music. It takes me back to a specific place where I was personally and professionally growth wise. It’s always worthwhile to hear it.
WHEN YOU WERE IN THE BAND, DID YOU EVER SUSPECT HE WAS CLOSE TO DYING AND THAT EACH GIG MIGHT BE HIS LAST EVER?
I think that I was pretty much in denial the whole time, the last 6 months anyway. Everyone could tell that this guy was going. When I look at the photos now, it’s shocking, to see how different he was physically looked from the first time I saw him from the last time. What’s deceiving is that he was so incredibly strong on the bandstand. Even when he could barely physically get to the stage because he was so weak. When he’d get to the piano, he would just sound like Bill. He always seemed like he was able to transcend the physical. His spirit was always just so strong. One time he got into a car accident on the way to a Carnegie Hall performance we were doing, and he showed up backstage with his left arm in a cast from the elbow up to the fingertips with his arm in a sling and stitches across his forehead ; we were all in shock! He gets on stage, and you can imagine the reaction of the audience when they see this guy walk up with a sling. He sits down at the piano, takes his arm out of the sling, places it on the piano, and honest to goodness you totally forgot that the guy was hurt! He played, man.
Same experience towards the end of his life. He had so much inner strength. I don’t know where it came from, but he had it. That was why it always seemed that he was going to just keep on going and going, but obviously there was a limit.
DID BILL BREAK UP THE BAND AND HE THEN DIED, OR DID HE JUST DIE AND YOU AND MARK JUST WENT YOUR OWN WAYS?
Bill died, and that was just the end of the trio. We were working a gig at a club in New York, and he was taken seriously ill, and couldn’t really get out of bed, and that was pretty much the end of it. At that point Mark and I both moved on. I then got a gig with Tony Bennett about 3 months later at the beginning of 81. Mark stayed in New York, and then started freelancing around and got his own thing going.
DID YOU NEED TO TAKE SOME TIME OFF TO MENTALLY RECOVER FROM WHAT HAPPENED WITH BILL, OR DID YOU JUST KEEP ON GOING?
I didn’t work any gigs until the first one I did with Tony, which was New Years Day 1981 in the Philippines. I just think that people were just giving me some space and I needed it. I could have used playing, but the time off was put to good use. I did some soul searching, and realized what I needed to do. I had to keep on going. I had to make a living. I had a wife and a new baby girl, with bills to be paid, so I had to deal with reality.
MOVE UP A COUPLE YEARS. WHAT GOT YOU ON THE jAZZ COMPASS LABEL
When I moved to LA I started working with different people and it always seems to boil down to a core group of players that you get along with really well. These guys Tom Warrington, Clay Jenkins, Larry Koonse and I had these desires to put out projects. I had recorded a project; Clay had one that was ready to go. So, Instead of releasing them separately, like everyone else, “Here’s my new cd,” Let’s pool our resources together and make this more of a a concerted effort and give it a more professional look. We did some research and came up with a domain name, the label name and everyone has sp ecific chores to do. Tom takes care of the finances, Larry does the orders and shipping; I more or less am in charge of the publicity and networking. We all have our functions. This is year 13 now, and we’ve got 25-27 releases out now. It’s doing fine! We’re not getting rich, but at least the music is out there.
The purpose of the label was to have an outlet for our own music. At the time we were doing this, I had submitted my project to a bunch of labels, and they all say the same thing, ”It’s fine. We love it,” and then they sit on it for 6-8 months or a year. It goes nowhere. Now, you’re losing momentum and they eventually DON’T put it out, so we figured, “Let’s just cut to the chase,” and put it out yourself, and we’re doing just fine.
ALL THESE LA GUYS THAT YOU MENTION. AS WELL AS BILL CUNLIFFE AND BOB SHEPPARD, ALWAYS SEEM TO BE UNDER THE JAZZ RADAR. IS THERE A CASTE SYSTEM IN JAZZ CONCERNING LA VS NY MUSICIANS?
There always has been that, starting in the late 40s. After the recording ban, a lot of young small record labels started, and they were all out here in LA, and they started to eat into the profits of the larger East Coast labels. That whole stigma of West Coast vs East Coast was manufactured by publicity agents for East Coast labels. Things like, “West Coast stuff is weak and not happening like our East Coast stuff.” We don’t get the same attention as they do in NY, but NY is the center.
As far as whether guys like Shep or Bob Magnussen or Cunliffe are on the radar back there, it’s just a matter of how much they get out there to get heard. I know Bob and Bill go out there quite a bit. I think Mag stays close to home these days. It really depends on who you’re working for and where you’re playing. For myself, most of my work is international; I play a few gigs here in town like Vitellos, Vibrato and The Blue Whale, but I make my living touring in Europe, Asia and back East, and that gives me exposure, but I had that exposure before I came out here to LA.
AS FAR AS LA, DO YOU THINK THE FANS OUT HERE SUPPORT JAZZ AS MUCH AS YOU’D LIKE.
They absolutely do. We play in town, and people come out here, but it takes time. You’ve got to build up your own fan base. It’s not going to happen overnight. You’ve got to earn your fans, and win them over and give them what they want to hear, or something worthwhile, I should say, so they’ll continue to come back. They’re can’t come all the time, but they’ll come when they can. I can tell you that the fans that come out to hear the quintet are consistent fans and we are starting to get some exposure among the younger fans, by playing at places like The Blue Whale, where you get a younger audience.
IS IT YOUNGER OR OLDER AUDIENCES ThAT COME TO HEAR YOU AT PLACES LIKE VITELLO’S AND VIBRATO?
It’s older, as the places are a bit pricier. It draws an older crowd, as it’s a dinner hang. It’s the kind of place where someone might go if they want to hear a specific artist, but not like the Blue Whale where younger people might just hang on their own, so the demographic is older.
WHY THE ALLURE IN JAPAN FOR YOU? BILL EVANS?
I’ve been going there for years. Ironically I was supposed to go there with Bill with October of 1980, but he had passed, so we never went. I’ve been going to Japan since the late 80s, with different people. For the last five years I’ve been going over there and recording there under my own name with my own quintet. I’ve worked with a lot of different musicians in Japan, so I have a fairly good reputation there. Once again, you have to invest your time touring there and you have to develop your own fan base, and it seems to be paying off.
DO YOU DO YOUR OWN TOURING WITH EUROPE AS WELL?
It depends. In Europe, I’m going over with Eliane Elias and Marc Johnson in February and then I’m going back in April or May with an alto player that I had been working with from Rome named Rosario Giuliani. We’ve done a lot of performing and touring there. But I’ve played with a number of jazz festivals in Europe through the years. And, through my reputation of course with Bill Evans’ Trio, my name has been kept alive with a lot of the promoters there.
YOU HAVE YOUR OWN RECORD OUT, AS WELL AS BEING ON THE AHA! SESSIONS AND MARK MASTERS RY SMULYAN’S DUKE ELLINGTON RELEASE. IS IT THE RECORDING WORK OR TOURING THAT HELP YOU MAKE YOUR LIVING?
Well, there’s one aspect of this that we’ve left out so far, which is also that I’ve been a member of the faculty of Cal State Institute of the Arts for the past 20 years. I’m a full time faculty member there. But as far as the musical side of it, it’s 60/40 touring/recording.
THAT RELEASE OF MARK MASTERS AND THE ELLINGTON SAX SECTION WAS A KNOCKOUT.
Mark Masters always puts out interesting stuff. I really admire the fact that he’s willing to take a chance of something like that. How can you go wrong with Duke Ellington? You can’t do better than that! I was just channeling Sam Woodyard the whole time!
WHAT ADVICE DO YOU GIVE TO YOUR STUDENTS
They have to be willing to dedicate themselves. That’s the key to it. You obviously have to have talent and have to study and work hard, but you have to dedicate your abilities once you’ve got to that level, where you can be working. And you’ve got to be willing to pay your dues. I know it’s a cliché, but it’s true. It’s just not going to happen overnight. There’s no one in this business where it has happened overnight, and that’s a fallacy that a lot of young people believe in. They think they’ll get signed by a record company right out of college. Of course, there’s always a couple that do that, but they are few and far between, and even if they do, if they’re really not together, it’s not going to last. That’s my best advice. You have to be willing to stay the course; you have to be willing to be willing to invest your time into your own career.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY “TOGETHER”?
All of it. I mean chops. You’ve really got to be able to play. You’ve got to have your head screwed on right; you’ve got to be a professional. You can’t just make assumptions that your talent is going to carry you get you that job. There’s a lot of great players out there. You’ve got to be that great player that everyone wants to hire.
HOW DO YOU KEEP GROUNDED?
I Had a great upbringing. I had a great family life growing up, and I still have a great family life. Our spirituality is more communing with nature. That’s our link to life. Everyone is spiritual, and everyone can tap into that Greater Being. But you’ve got to strive for it.
AND OF COURSE, NO ARTICLE WITH A DRUMMER IS COMPLETE WITHOUT A A BAD DRUMMER JOKE, SO HERE IT IS…SO MANY DRUMMERS SO LITTLE TIME
Budda Bump! These jokes don’t come around for no reason!
DISPLAYING A PERFECT BALANCE OF HEALTH, HUMOR AND HUMILITY, DRUMMER JOE LA BARBERA EMBODIES ALL THAT IS RIGHT ABOUT BEING A JAZZ MUSICIAN. JUST LIKE HIS DRUMMING STYLE, LA BARBERA’S PERSONAL LIFE IS A BALANCE OF STYLE, TASTE AND SWING. CHECK HIM OUT IN A LOCAL GIG WHEN HE’S HOME, YOU’LL BE IN FOR A TREAT!