ONE OF THE TRUE PLEASURES OF JAZZ IS THE SPONTANEOUS JOY OF SURPRISE.
RECENTLY I TOOK IN A GIG BY THE “BAND OF BROTHERS”, WHICH CONSISTED OF LA BARBERA’S DRUMMER JOE AND SAXIST JOHN, ALONG WITH LEVIN BROTHERS TONY ON BASS AND KEYBOARDIST PETER.
I HAD SEEN 3 OF THE 4 MANY TIMES IN VARIOUS SETTINGS, BUT THE ADDITION OF PETER WAS A PLEASANT SURPRISE. WHO WAS HE, BESIDES THE ONLY ONE WHO KNEW THE SETLIST BEFORE THE GIG, SO HE COULD GIVE IT TO ME?
WELL, HE’S CARVED OUT A RICH NICHE WITH GIL EVANS’ ORCHESTRA, AND HAS ACTUALLY RECENTLY PUT OUT A LIVE DISC OF A TRIBUTE BAND OF SORTS, AND IT’S A BUNSEN BURNER.
WE GOT A CHANCE TO HAVE AN INTERVIEW WITH THE OLDER BROTHER, WHO WAS AS PLEASANT AS INFORMATIVE AS HIS GIG AT THE BAKED POTATO
WHAT IS THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF STARTING A CAREER IN A BIG BAND?
Its always productive and educational to play with other musicians, but there are more opportunities for rhythm section instruments than for wind players. There are lots of small ensembles performing in different musical genres. The traditional “big band” format gives between 10 and 15 horn players a chance to play and gain experience.
WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING YOU LEARNED FROM YOUR TIME WITH GIL EVANS?
When I first started playing with Gil, he had moved away from strict performances of his iconic material – like the classic recordings with Miles Davis “Porgy & Bess” and “Sketches of Spain” – being more interested in where the music could go. Accordingly, his performing band, The Gil Evans Orchestra, was an unconventional “big band.” Gil hired musicians with distinctive styles and sounds without concern about how they might blend with the ensemble, and let them do their thing. I was one of those. Gil hired me in 1972 to play French horn. I’d been experimenting with synthesizers and showed Gil my MiniMoog. He told me to bring it to gigs. I did, totally improvising since there were no charts for it. Eventually he told me to leave my horn home and just use the synth. He hired John Clark to fill the horn chair. How many band leaders would let one of their players completely switch instruments and not get fired? What I learned: Experiment, listen, create, go where the music takes me.
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“Gil (Evans) hired musicians with distinctive styles and sounds without concern about how they might blend with the ensemble, and let them do their thing”
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WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY LEARNED FROM EVANS OR OTHER MUSICIANS FROM THE ERA THAT PRECEDED YOU THAT IS DIFFERENT FROMTHE ONE THAT CAME AFTER YOU? WHAT IS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE YOU SEE IN THE GENERATION THAT PRECEDED YOU AS TO THE ONE AFTER Y OU.
My awareness of Gil in the ‘60s was through his legendary recordings with Miles Davis. By the ‘70s I was friends with New York City musicians who had played on them, and many of those players were in Gil’s live band. In the band, we all evolved together under Gil’s leadership. We learned how to take Gil’s music to new places, then get smoothly get back to the chart from wherever we’d been. That was very rare for a large ensemble. It still is. During the tour this past July of my current “Gil Evans Remembered” band we did much the same thing – freewheeling, unpredictable, but always using the charts as a framework. Sometimes we’d surprise ourselves. One show had an unplanned ending, with all 6 horn players standing and soloing at the same time. With no one throwing a cue, we slipped back into the out head. Hard to imagine another band doing that now. Most Jazz that came after Gil was more carefully planned out, with genre constraints and guidelines.
WHO HAVE YOU WORKED WITH THAT HAD THE MOST IMPRESSIVE MUSICAL MIND?
Again, so many. Some who stand out for their vision: Gil Evans, composers Charles Mingus and Paul Simon, film composer Jay Chattaway, Wayne Shorter, Lenny White, Carla Bley … so many.
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“We learned how to take Gil’s music to new places, then get smoothly get back to the chart from wherever we’d been. That was very rare for a large ensemble. It still is. Sometimes we’d surprise ourselves”
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DID YOU EVER HAVE A “BAPTISM BY FIRE”?
One that comes to mind: After years playing horn solos in symphony orchestras, in 1972 Gil Evans hired me to play French horn for a week at the Village Vanguard in NYC. It was a band full of monster soloists with a high energy rhythm section. With a lot of prodding from other players, on the last night I finally worked up the nerve to stand up and take a solo. It was on Billy Harper’s composition “Priestess.” I near wet my pants! I got through it, and nobody booed me. Gil’s wife Anita said it was magical, flowery and beautiful – but she said that about everything.
WHAT IS THE BEST ADVICE YOU’VE BEEN GIVEN BY A MUSICIAN?
I couldn’t pick one piece of advice. Some candidates:
“Quit playing what you think I want you to play.” (Gil Evans)
“Playing an instrument in the Classical world, its very important that you study and practice orchestral repertoire excerpts.” (Osbourne McConathy – 1963)
“French horn is a treacherous instrument. The goal is to miss as few notes as possible.” (Robert Johnson 1966)
“There is no such thing as limited instruments, only limited musicians.” (Howard Johnson, 1972)
Comping in jazz: “The objective is to make the soloist sound right.” (Lew Soloff, 1973)
In a recording session: “If you make a suggestion and its rejected, shut up and do what the producer wants you to do. If you argue, you’ll still end up playing what the producer wants, and it will take longer to get out of the studio.”
Recording session behavior: “If you’re not 30 minutes early, you’re late.”
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“Quit playing what you think I want you to play.”
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IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE GENERATION AFTER YOU THAT MIGHT BE MISSING THAT YOU’D LIKE TO SHARE WITH THEM?
I don’t if I’m such a great model for the younger generation. I could only suggest things that make me use my mind and give me pleasure. How about, learn to cook. You only get to eat so many meals, then you die. Make them good ones! Musically – listen to everything, learn from everything. Don’t discount what somebody is doing because its not what you’re doing – like, listen to Aretha Franklin’s piano playing. Listen to Little Richard singing straight gospel.
WAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR BROTHER TONY MORE OF AN ENCOURAGEMENT OR FRIENDLY RIVALRY?
We were 4 years apart in school, studying in different cities, and for years were working in different genres for different producers and artists, so there was never a rivalry. But there was always mutual respect and encouragement. We both had essentially the same training and background. Years later, both well established in our profession and living near each other, we often found ourselves in recording studios and live working for other people. Over time, I played on Tony’s projects and he played on mine. In 2014, we collaborated to form a jazz quartet, The Levin Brothers. Its still going on. That was actually our 2nd In 1976 we collaborated and released a single by a band called “The Clams.” It didn’t last long. Don’t ask!
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“There is no such thing as limited instruments, only limited musicians.”
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WHEN YOU PLAY WITH YOUR BROTHER TONY, DO YOU APPROACH THE MUSIC DIFFERENTLY?
Basically, no. Our training and backgrounds have much in common: Take direction, listen to other players, and try to make what you play contribute to making the piece as good as possible. In our collaboration as co-band leaders, we had the same goal, and were open to taking and supporting each other’s ideas.
THE BAND OF BROTHERS GIG EXUDED WITH FUN. WAS THE BAND OF BROTHERS BAND DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF TWO SETS OF BROTHERS?
Other than being a fun talking point, it was basically no different. Tony and Joe LaBarbera go way back to the ‘60s at Eastman School in Rochester, NY. In 2023 they were chatting about possibly doing something together. Tony suggested adding me, Joe suggested adding Pat, and that was that. We called our agent. It took some time to choose music that we were all comfortable with, but we’re all from the same generation so it worked very well.
IT WAS A BIG DEAL WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED PLAYING WITH SYNTHESIZERS BACK IN THE 1970S. WHAT DID YOU USE AS A TEMPLATE?
For what I was doing in the mid-‘70s, there wasn’t much of a template. For years, I’d been listening to classical electronic music – Henk Badings, Gershon Kingsley, Boulez, Varese, Stockhausen. Several people were commercially successfully making recordings with complex electronic orchestration – Larry Fast, Wendy Carlos. Almost all of that used large, expensive instruments and was limited to recording studios. In 1970, Robert Moog released the MiniMoog, a smaller, affordable version of his flagship instrument. I got mine in 1972. At the time there were very few players using portable analog synthesizers for day-to-day work, so I found myself in demand for recording sessions in NYC. I was also one of the few who was willing to bring a synthesizer to live jazz gigs. By the late ‘70s analog synthesizers and digital samplers were in heavy use on recordings and live performances. A benchmark for their use in jazz at that time would be Joe Zawinul’s work with Weather Report. Meanwhile, I was schlepping a MiniMoog all over the world with Gil Evans.
HOW DID YOU SURVIVE THE 70S AS A JAZZ MUSICIAN WHEN ROCK AND DISCO WERE SWALLOWING UP EVERY OTHER MUSICAL STYLE?
The ‘70s was an odd decade for music. Disco was everywhere. Pop music production got more formularized, increasingly becoming more of a producer’s creation than an artist’s. But it was a great decade for musicians. Everybody was working! Broadway was thriving. Records were selling. Films were getting scored. I was doing one or two recording sessions every day. For “jingle” dates, rhythm section call would be 9:00am. We had to be done by 9:40 so they could set up for horns, then singers starting at 11:00. By 1977 when Star Wars hit, often my MiniMoog part would be to create electronic tom-tom fills, or maybe a couple of laser gun shots, or a “woosh” of a spaceship flyby. After a jingle date, we’d all hang out at China Song in Times Square and wait for our next sessions. Then at night, some of us would head for Greenwich Village for our jazz gigs. Everybody was working!
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“Recording session behavior::’If you’re not 30 minutes early, you’re late.’”
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WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A KEYBOARDIST WHEN YOU WATCH ONE?
I’d be listening more than “watching.” A musician has to sound good on a recording when nobody can see them. I’m listening for how someone fits into the overall sound and orchestration. For jazz, skill at comping for soloists and of course the musicality of their own solos. Herbie, Chick, Red Garland, Bill Evans – brilliant. For Pop, its very much about creating a “part” that enhances the song and the production. Keyboard players that stand out for me that I’ve learned from – Richart Tee, Billy Preston, Greg Phillinganes, Jordan Rudess, Garth Hudson, Mac Rebennack, George Duke, John Kee, Jan Hammer – so many!
WHAT FUTURE PROJECTS DO YOU HAVE?
Continuing with the Levin Brothers of course. Combining my roots with my electronic toys, I’ve been working on classical projects with 100% synthesizer orchestration; I recently finished a collection of J.S. Bach pieces done that way. But at the top of the list right now is my Gil Evans project, “Gil Evans Remembered,” a gathering of 11 alumni of Gil’s band from the ‘70s and ‘80s. We’re doing the same music with the same free-wheeling improvisation spirit that we learned while we were playing for Gil. We recorded a live gig in NYC back in 2014, that’s being released in October by Dot Time Records. We just played at 2 major jazz European jazz festivals in July – in Lugano, Switzerland at Estival Jazz, and in Perugia, Italy at Umbria Jazz. We got a lot of positive response and are already fielding offers for 2025. Most importantly, all of us are having a blast playing that music again, and doing in a way that we hope Gil would have loved.
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“Don’t discount what somebody is doing because its not what you’re doing – like, listen to Aretha Franklin’s piano playing. Listen to Little Richard singing straight gospel”
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DID IT EVER DAWN ON YOU WHEN YOU WERE WITH GIL EVANS THAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY ON STAGE WITH HIM AND THE IMPLICATIONS?
It did at first. I’d listened extensively to his recordings for years, so at first I was a bit intimidated, working for a legendary, universally respected musician. At our Monday night Sweet Basil gigs, there was a table off to the side in an unlit alcove. Almost every week, some celebrity would be hidden in that alcove, wanting to anonymously experience what Gil was doing. I quickly learned that Gil was totally down-to-earth, friendly, complimentary and generous. In addition, I was surrounded by well-known players who came through the band during the ‘70s – Lenny White, Joe Beck, Johnny Coles, Howard Johnson, Ten Dunbar, Billy Harper, Dave Sanborn, Lew Soloff, Jimmy Knepper, Buster Williams, Dave Bargeron, Lou Marini, John Clark, Danny Gottlieb, Mark Egan, Hiram Bullock, etc. – all there because we loved and respected Gil. We were immersed in making music collectively, not thinking so much of being famous names on stage. Gil hired players with very individualistic sounds and styles and pretty much let us do our thing. He was open to almost anything. He recorded every gig on a cassette machine and would listen the next day. If you did something jive on stage, the next Monday night at Sweet Basil he’d chew you out for it. Like, “Don’t do that!” or “Quit playing what you think I want you to play!” That was the height of embarrassment, having Gil tell you that.
WHEN DID YOU FEEL THAT YOU “MADE IT”?
By 1973 I was working a lot in New York – recording almost every day for somebody, playing jazz at night, touring Europe with Gil and later on with Paul Simon. It all continued into the ‘80s. In spite of my solo recordings and occasional stints as a bandleader, I’ve always thought of myself as a sideman, and seemingly I’m respected for that. By the late ‘70s I was making great music and making a good living doing it. I was pretty secure in what I was doing and feeling good about it. Its been 50 years and the phone is still ringing. I’ve been pretty lucky.
IT’S RARE TO HAVE BROTHERS IN THE SAME FIELD, ESPECIALLY JAZZ. YOU GREW UP IN A JEWISH FAMILY, WHERE THE SAYING GOES, ‘YOU’RE EITHER A DOCTOR, LAWYER OR A FAILURE”. DID YOUR PARENTS ENCOURGE OR DISCOURAGE YOU?
Reminds me of that old Jewish observation:
Q: Biologically, when does a fetus become a human being?
A: When it graduates from medical school.
Maybe not so rare to have two brothers in the same field, but you never know where it comes from. There was parental shock when I elected to go to music school, and more when Tony made the same choice 4 years later. Like, “Where did we go wrong?!?” But they saw us succeed and were clearly proud of us. I’ve many times credited our career choices to our high school experiences. The school system in the town we grew up in – Brookline, Massachusetts – was very supportive of the arts and spent a lot of money on the music department. The department head and the instrumental teachers at the high school were all talented, active professional musicians and writers, and very encouraging to young players who showed promise.
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“A musician has to sound good on a recording when nobody can see them”
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WHAT ARE YOU LEARNING FROM THE YOUNGER GENERATION
We musical veterans, although we have highly developed skills and broad experience, tend to keep doing the proven stuff – because it works. Personally, I still haven’t gotten over the music that came out of Stax. As a result, most contemporary pop music is being created by young musicians, exploring new ideas. To them, its normal. It makes sense for us to not be critical, but rather to listen to what they’re doing. When the Dave Brubeck Quartet was at its peak in the ‘60s, they made it hip to play in 5/4 time. On pickup jazz gigs, we’d call standard waltzes in ¾ and play them in 5/4, and we thought we were cool. These days I often see young musicians performing in Prog Rock groups, doing music of King Crimson and others in addition to original music. Complex stuff, often in unusual song forms and in odd meters – 7/4, 13/8, etc. Back in music college, I couldn’t have imagined trying to do that. With today’s young players, its like, nobody told them that its difficult. They hear it, they try it and they do it. No big deal. We could learn from that.
IS THERE ANYONE IN TODAY’S GENERATIONS THAT EXCITES YOU?
Jacob Collier comes quickly to mind. Damn, he’s good!
DID YOU ENCOURAGE YOUR KIDS TO GET INTO JAZZ?
They heard lots of jazz at home, but I never suggested that they get into it. My daughter dabbled in music for a while, then went into art and computer archiving. My son played bass for a while then became a post-production audio/video engineer. I’m reluctant to encourage anyone to get into jazz. It’s a rough haul; there’s a lot of competition, a lot of snobbery, and it’s a hard sell. You have to discover it and it becomes a calling.
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“With today’s young players, its like, nobody told them that its difficult. They hear it, they try it and they do it. No big deal. We could learn from that”
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AT YOUR AGE, HOW DO YOU KEEP IN SHAPE?
Mostly by keeping busy, I think. I’ve always got stuff going on. If there’s nothing on my schedule, I find something to do. Make a project – musical, work on the house, cooking, whatever. My kids call me the Energizer Bunny. School friends that I’m still in touch with are all living in Florida, wearing green pants and playing golf. My life, they wouldn’t get it. Musicians don’t retire. Quoting Louis Armstrong: “When you’re dead, you’re done.”
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Other than making music – family, cooking, building stuff, listening to Bill Evans, hanging out with friends, playing with the dog. I’m easy.
NOT ONLY CAN A MUSICIAN MAKE A PARENT PROUD, BUT HE CAN ALSO FORM A FRATERNALLY MUSICAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS BROTHER. CHECK OUT HIS OWN MATERIAL AS WELL AS THE NEXT FAMILY OUTING TO BE RECORDED!