IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT IF YOU DON’T KNOW JOE LA BARBERA, YOU DON’T KNOW JAZZ DRUMMERS. ONE OF TODAY’S L IVING LEGENDS, HE IS BEST KNOWN AS BEING A MEMBER OF BILL EVANS’ LAST TRIO, WHICH IS ARGUAGLY THE PIANIST’S BEST.
BUT THAT ASPECT OF LA BARBERA’S CAREER ONLY GIVES ONE A GLIMPSE OF THE MAN. LIKE ALL MUSICIANS, THERE ARE UNAPPRECIATED ASPECTS OF HIS LIFE AND CAREER.
YES, WE WILL DELVE INTO HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH EVANS, BUT JOE LABARBARA IS ALSO KNOWN AS A BROTHER, HAVING TOURED WITH BROTHER JOE IN A FAMED “BAND OF BROTHERS” TOUR ALONG WITH TONY AND PETER LEVEN. I’VE ALSO SEEN JOE WITH BOTH BROTHERS IN A BIG BAND LED BY HIS BROTHER PAT.
AND SPEAKING OF BIG BAND, LET’S NOT FORGET LA BARBERA’S STINT WITH THE LEGENDARY WOODY HERMAN’S HERD.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH FELLOW ANGELENO JOE, AND LIKE HIS PLAYING, THE RESULTS WERE IMPECCABLY STYLISH
WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF STARTING A CAREER PLAYING IN BIG BANDS LIKE WOODY HERMAN?
You learn to be part of a larger ensemble. You learn to create something that is going to work as a section, like the rhythm section. We all had to function together, and we’d then have to plug that into the band as whole. You have to accommodate each section because they all have different ways to play.
For example, the saxophone section tends to lay back a little bit, along with the trombones, ***while the trumpets may be on top for the most parts. You have factor all of those things together and bring everybody in on the same page and be on the same beat. You have to make a feel that will accommodate all three sections.
WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY LEARNED FROM WATCHING WOODY HERMAN, MUSICIAN FROM THE ERA PRECEDING YOU?
By watching him, I saw that he knew how to make everybody happy, both the band and the audience.
Even when we were playing dance jobs we still had a good time. It was fun, but Woody would still pull out some of the “hot” arrangements and so the band could stretch their wings out a little bit. The audience would enjoy it as well.
One direct bit of advice Woody gave me was after we had played “Woodchoppers Ball”, which was probably the song that the band looked the least forward to playing . It was a blues in a difficult key.
Woody told me “Be careful what you get famous for, because you’re going to end up playing it for the rest of your life”. He was being tongue in cheek, but it did put him on the map
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“By watching (Woody Herman), I saw that he knew how to make everybody happy, both the band and the audience”
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WHAT’S THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE THAT YOU SEE FROM THE GENERATION THAT PRECEDED YOU TO THE ONE THAT HAS COME AFTER YOU?
The generation that preceded me all had the benefit of working in big bands
My generation was the first one of college kids that started to populate these bands. Prior to me and my brothers, the musicians were all adults, and that was their full time employment. The economics of keeping a big band together got more and more difficult, so big band leaders were looking for college kids in order to pay them less. They were going to pay me a lot less than Jake Hanna!
Woody was also looking for an energy that wasn’t in the older players.
Woody’s band lasted through the 80s. Once that experience was gone, it was a missed opportunity.
Bill Evans used to say that big bands were a training ground. You could go and learn your ***craft. He was in Herbie Fields’ big band right out of college, and he said it was a great experience for him, because he learned how to perform at a high level every night. He was improving as a player individually as well as the pianist in the rhythm section
You grow as a group. With Woody’s band, you would play at least ten months a year, night after night after night. So, you’re growing quickly as a person and as a group.
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“Woody was also looking for an energy that wasn’t in the older players”
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WHAT DO YOU SEE DIFFERENT IN TODAY’S MUSICIANS, SINCE YOU PLAY WITH SO MANY OF THEM?
I think that they are better at an earlier age! They play so well!
I could have used a lot more education, because I dropped out of Berklee after three semesters. But I wanted to, because the opportunities that I was after were disappearing quickly. The fact that I could join Woody’s band, or go on and be with Chuck Mangione on the road for four years. That was my education.
These younger players are getting their education in school. Some have the benefit of living in New York or Los Angeles and be able to work with a mentor. If you’re, in a big city, you might find a heavy, and he or she may take you under their wing and show you the ropes.
WHO IS THE GREATEST MUSICAL MIND THAT YOU’VE WORKED WITH?
It’s gotta be Bill Evans
He spent so much time working on his craft. He practice so much on the piano, and had complete command of the instrument. He studied harmony, and he had thought through harmony as he was trained at Southeastern in Louisiana. The harmony that he was taught there he applied through his own individual way through trial and error.
He would try things and work on them in a systematic manner
He approached music that way, and he may to some people seem academic, but it wasn’t. He just had a very thorough approach, so that once he had something formulated in terms of how he wanted to proceed, then he could be free to improvise. It didn’t clutter him up wondering how to get from this to that note logically and musically.
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“(Bill Evans) just had a very thorough approach, so that once he had something formulated in terms of how he wanted to proceed”
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DID YOU EVER HAVE A “BAPTISM BY FIRE”?
When I worked with Buddy Rich’s band in Las Vegas. I was still going to Berklee, and it was during the Christmas Break, and went to Las Vegas for a month in 1968
Pat was in Buddy’s band, and I was working with a singer named Frankie Randall. He was a good singer with a really good book. I had to play opposite Buddy, and even play his drums, trying to sound good with him right there, which is almost impossible!
Buddy took me under his wing; he made it easier for me than more difficult.
WHAT WAS THE BEST ADVICE HE OR SOMEONE ELSE GAVE YOU?
One day I said to Buddy “You know, no matter how hard I try, I’ll never be as good as you”.
He just said, “The drums are right there; all you’ve got to do is sit down and start playing them. Don’t talk about how much better I am than you. If you really want to go after it, get down behind the drums and go for it!”
WHEN YOU SAW YOUR BROTHERS PLAY FOR THE LIKES OF RICH, BELLSON AND JONES, WERE YOU MORE ENCOURAGED OR INTIMIDATED?
Always encouraged. Those guys showed you what was possible, and that’s an important lesson
They had spent more time at it and had more experience, but they were showing me what I could achieve if you just stick to it. But, you have to commit to it and work for it.
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“(Rich, Bellson and Jones) showed you what was possible, and that’s an important lesson”
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IS THERE ANYTHING YOU CAN SHARE WITH THE NEXT GENERATION THAT THEY MIGHT BE MISSING AND NEED TO LEARN?
One thing that might be missing with the younger musicians is the listening aspect of it.
I don’t think there’s the amount of listening that we used to do. It’s a different kind of listening, because everyone’s got their music on their phone now. It’s now a more individual thing. My brothers and friends, right up through our professional years, would all get together and listen as a group to a recording. We’d put that record on, start it, and listen all the way through and then talk about it. Then we’d listen to it again, two or three more times.
Maybe it’s not needed now, but I know that the benefits that I got from those experiences were very important.
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“I don’t think there’s the amount of listening that we used to do.. We’d put that record on, start it, and listen all the way through and then talk about it. Then we’d listen to it again, two or three more times”
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MOST YOUNG PEOPLE PLAY A LOT OF MUSIC, BUT ONLY AS BACKGROUND.
The problem with playing music for background, is that if that’s how you’re listening, then how are you listening when you’re on the bandstand? Are you REALLY listening to the other players, seeing what they’re doing, hearing what they’re doing and trying to help them? Or are you just listening to a record and listening to the hot licks that the drummer is playing and trying to plug them into an inappropriate place in the music because you just learned that lick? That’s the crucial difference
By listening to these records over and over again, I was able to figure out how each musician functioned and why they were doing what they were doing
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“are you just listening to a record and listening to the hot licks that the drummer is playing and trying to plug them into an inappropriate place in the music because you just learned that lick? That’s the crucial difference”
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WHEN YOU PLAY WITH YOUR BROTHERS, SO YOU APPROACH THE MUSIC DIFFERENTLY?
Of course. We’ve been playing together since we were kids. There’s no doubt that when we’re together on the band stand, I’m energized. It gives each one of us more confidence to be able to play; It’s very familiar and comfortable.
WAS THE BAND OF BROTHERS DIFFERENT WITH TWO SETS OF BROTHERS?
Every new job needs some getting used to. There’s new music, and I’d never played that much with Pete Levin before. Tony and I hadn’t played together since 1968, so it took a minute to feel each other out, but it happened quickly.
We were all there for the same reason, to play music of an age when we were all able to approach similarly
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“We’ve been playing together since we were kids. There’s no doubt that when we’re together on the band stand, I’m energized. It gives each one of us more confidence to be able to play”
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PAT TOLD US YOU GREW UP PLAYING THE SAX. WHY DID YOU START? WHY DID YOU GIVE IT UP, AND HOW HAS IT HELPED YOU AS A DRUMMER?
It was my dad’s idea.
I was playing drums in the band, and he looked at my embrochure, and he said I had to learn clarinet and saxophone. I played it all through grade school and high school
But Pat was the sax player in the family; I wanted to play the drums. At sixteen I changed over
:HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR CHOPS UP AT YOUR AGE?
The physical aspect is simply taking care of yourself. My wife and I walk every day for 1 ½ hours, so we do 4-5 miles at a good pace. We lift weights every other day and stretch. We watch our diet, so that’s the physical side of it.
I absolutely do spend a lot of time practicing. Most of the time I use the pad and the snare and do some etude exercises just to keep my hands limber. As you get older, it’s just a fact of life that you’re going to get some aches and pains, or the hands don’t loosen up as quickly as they used to. But, by constant practice my hands are kept at a constant level so that when I hit the bandstand, I can get comfortable after a couple of tunes.
WHO OF TODAY’S GENERATION OF MUSICIANS HAS CAUGHT YOUR EAR?
Gerald Clayton. I love what he’s doing
I go up and play with Yotam Silberstein and Graham Dechter a lot. Will Lyle, Bijan Taghavi. I love when the younger players call me
HOW DID YOU REACT AS A MUSICIAN TO THE CHANGING TASTES OF MUSIC IN THE 60s AND 70s?
When I was living in New York, I had my sights on being exclusively a jazz musician, whereas a lot of my friends were getting into the pop world and doing recording sessions.
It was simply that it was not something that I wanted to do or cared to do. I did know that this decision was going to limit my income! Drastically! (laughs)
But, that’s where my heart was. If you just follow your passion you can’t go wrong.
In terms of trends, I just followed my heart and it worked out.
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“there has to be some meat to the music to get me interested in it”
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WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT IN THE DISCO 70s YOU WERE ACTUALLY IN A JAZZ BAND THAT WAS POPULAR? 1816 THAT JUST WASN”T HAPPENING THEN
I did play some jazz fusion, and I enjoyed it. I was totally cool with that, with Larry Coryell and Miraslov Vitous. I still love playing that style.
But it has to have a certain weight to it; there has to be some meat to the music to get me interested in it.
WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A BASSIST?
The same thing I look for in any other instrument; someone who’s willing to listen and can be flexible
If someone is so set in their ways that they can’t give an inch in any aspect of the music, then that’s not going to be someone I’ll want to work with again.
The way I play and treat all of my students was to be the person that can go to anybody and play with anybody. That’s been my mantra with teaching and playing.
My experience has been that not everyone can come to me. So, I just have to be aware of that. Not everyone is either willing or able to be flexible, to be able to play with someone that doesn’t feel exactly the ideal way that you think a drummer should be.
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“(I look for) he same thing I look for in any other instrument; someone who’s willing to listen and can be flexible”
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WHAT FUTURE PROJECTS DO YOU HAVE?
I have a book out. The thought behind the book was to tell the story of Bill Evans. The thought has been on my mind for a long time. There have been books about him, and some of the information has been incorrect.
Since I was a person that was actually there, I wanted to tell that story. I wanted to humanize Bill. I want people to see what kind of a person he really was.
It’s easy to get caught up in all of the salacious items of someone’s life, and in his case it would be substance abuse. To me, that was the least of it, because that was something that was a constant in his life. He was not going to talk about it and not going to change.
By putting that off of the table, I could just focus on the realities of his being a great jazz musician, and what he had to go through on a daily basis. It wasn’t always the right treatment for Bill. Inferior pianos, long trips, hotels, very difficult travel, and then get on the bandstand. As soon as he started to play, it would be Carnegie Hall, no matter where we were.
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“I did know that this decision (to play jazz) was going to limit my income! Drastically!”
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DID YOU EVER DE-PROGRAM WITH MARC JOHNSON ABOUT YOUR TIME WITH BILL EVANS
Marc and I are good friends and we still stay in touch.
When we talk, we feel like what we did was just yesterday. When we play together, which isn’t frequent, it’s instantaneous. We hook up immediately because everything that I mentioned previously about what I look for in a bass player, he has it, and had it from Day One.
WAS THERE EVER A COMPETITION BETWEEN THE BROTHERS AS TO WHO WOULD GET THE FIRST BIG GIG?
No. With Pat being the oldest it stood to reason that he would be the first one out there. He went with Buddy’s band in 1967.
We all played a different instrument. We would have loved to have been in the same band together. It happened for a brief period in 1968, but my father was always wary of the three of us all being on the same plane or bus together because, living through WWII, he was worried about those kind of things happening.
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“As soon as (Bill Evans) started to play, it would be Carnegie Hall, no matter where we were”
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WERE YOU EVER ON THE BANDSTAND WITH EITHER EVANS OR MANGIONE WHERE IT DAWNED ON YOU WHO YOU WERE PLAYING WITH?
Initially with almost everyone I’ve played with.
When I was with Woody’s band, it was like “Wow! This is one of my heroes; I’ve always wanted to play with him, and here I am”
Same with Chuck.
DEFINITETLY with Bill Evans. There were nights at the Village Vanguard where I would look over and see him sitting at the piano and think “Don’t wake me up! Leave me in this dream!”
But then, you have to accept that he selected you to be a part of his band, so you better man up and do the job
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“The way I play and treat all of my students was to be the person that can go to anybody and play with anybody. That’s been my mantra with teaching and playing”
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IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WISHED YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED HIM?
No. I asked him a lot of questions; we talked quite a bit.
I spent a lot of time with him in his apartment various times.
There were things I wish I could have asked Buddy Rich, but I was so young and in awe of him
MUSICAL FAMILIES IN JAZZ ARE FAIRLY RARE. WHAT DID YOUR PARENTS DO THAT YOU THINK WAS SO SPECIAL?
Our family life was pretty idyllic
Two loving parents. A safe and secure home. You couldn’t help but feel confident
I don’t know if my father expected any of us to go into music professionally, but once we all started to point in that direction they were behind us 100%
I’ve talked to other musicians, and it was not that way for them. For us, it was always there, so there was nothing stopping us except our own limitations
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“There were nights at the Village Vanguard where I would look over and see him sitting at the piano and think ‘Don’t wake me up! Leave me in this dream!’”
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YOU’RE STILL RECORDING, WITH A NEW ALBUM “LIVE” AT SAM FIRST BAR
It’s a place that makes you feel welcome. Music is front and center there. There’s no restaurant trying to satisfy the diners. Sam First is a jazz club the way I remember jazz clubs in New York; dedicated to presenting the music in the best way possible
You can’t ask for more than that
WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
Just to keep going and keep playing. My wife and I are both retired. I stopped teaching at Cal Arts three years ago, and she retired at the same time.
We spend the day together. I love being retired. My goal is to keep going and enjoy life!
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“My goal is to keep going and enjoy life!”
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FEW MUSICIANS ARE AS ACTIVE IN RETIREMENT AS JOE LA BARBERA. LIKE ELLINGTON, WHO ASKED “RETIRE TO WHAT?”, LA BARBERA IS TREATING THIS SEASON OF HIS LIFE AS IF EVERY DAY WERE SPRING.