IT’S A RARE FEAT FOR A MUSICIAN TO COMPETE WITH HIS PAST, BUT THAT’S WHAT ALL STAR TROMBONIST STEVE DAVIS HAS RECENTLY ACCOMPLISHED.
KNOWN AS ONE OF THE PREMIER MODERN TROMBONISTS, DAVIS HAS GRACED THE ALBUMS AS A SIDEMAN TO ARTISTS RANGING FROM CHICK COREA AND JACKIE MCLEAN TO ART BLAKEY AS WELL AS TODAY’S GENERATION OF GIANTS SUCH AS CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE. HIS OWN ALBUMS SUCH AS CORRELATIONS AND BLUESTHETIC ARE NOTHING LESS THAN FIRST CLASS, KEEPING WITH THE TRADITION YET SOUNDING TIMELESSLY MODERN.
BUT HIS PAST IS CATCHING UP WITH HIM
RECENTLY, SMOKE SESSION RECORDS RELEASED A LONG LOST 2008 INTIMATE MEETING BETWEEN DAVIS AND THE BEBOP PIONEER PIANIST HANK JONES AND BASSIST PETER WASHINGTON. THE SUBLIME AND CASUAL FEEL OF THE THREE TAKING ON STANDARDS SUCH AS “BUT BEAUTIFUL” AND “POLKA DOTS AND MOONBEAMS” CAPTURES THE ESSENSE OF THE JOYFUL SPONTANAEITY AND WARM COMMUNICATION THAT MAKES JAZZ THE ART THAT IT IS.
WE RECENTLY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHAT WITH DAVIS ABOUT THE ALBUM AS WELL AS HIS LEARNED LESSONS FROM OTHER JAZZ MASTERS. AS WITH HIS MUSIC, HE WAS FOUND TO BE WARM AND SWINGING.
WHY DID YOU PICK THE TROMBONE?
I kind of wound up with it, to be honest
When I was in fourth grade, you choose an instrument to play in the band.
We had a lot of music in the household. My father listened to a lot of blues, rock and roll and jazz records. My grandparents on my father’s side, my “nana” was a semi-professional stride pianist. She was a jazz pianist for real, playing a lot of standard.
Growing up, you just take it for granted that “that’s what nana’s do!”, playing gigs at the restaurant, and waving to you in the corner while playing “Honeysuckle Rose” or “Embraceable You”. It wasn’t until I got older that I realized how special that was.
My dad’s father, called “grandsir” played trumpet as a hobby. He loved Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong, Count Basie, Glenn Miller and all the Big Band Swing music.
He was a newspaper journalist, as was my father. But there was an appreciation of music and jazz in my family
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“Music washes away the dust of everyday life”
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I started on the trumpet because of my “grandsir” I actually signed up for the saxophone, but I was sick that day and the trumpet was my next choice for that fourth grade band class. I played it; I got braces about a 1 ½ later in the mid 70s it was like having railroad tracks in your mouth. It wasn’t pleasant; I was cutting my lips, so I wanted to quit.
I had a wonderful teacher, Mr. Ross, who was a classical “Eastmann” guy, and he suggested the baritone horn. The mouthpiece was bigger, so it didn’t cut my lips. So, all of a sudden, I go from 11th cornet to the one and only baritone player
I fell in love with the sound. You play an almost tuba-ish roll with the bass, you play with the brass, the trombones, the trumpets, and you play runs with the woodwinds on the Sousa marches. It was kind of cool.
I played with the stage band in Jr. High, and had another teacher, Mr. Maola, who suggested suggested the trombone. So I played slide trombone, baritone, trumpet and tuba. That’s how I fell in love with the trombone.
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‘the king is the man who can’”
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DID YOU EVER TRY EITHER THE VALVE OR BASS TROMBONE?
I think the tuba got the bass trombone out of my system (laughs)
I did have a valve trombone, and listened to people like Bob Brookmeyer and Sonny Binghamton in upstate New York. He brought a small ensemble in 1982 with Dick Oatts and Joe Lovano, Adam Nussbaum and Michael Moore
Brookmeyer had such a gorgeous mellow sound. When I tried to play it, it was a little more nasally
After hearing JJ Johnson right off the bat at an early age…just his clarity and the way that he played. Then hearing Curtis Fuller with Art Blakey and Coltrane’s “Blue Train” and Al Grey, Slide Hampton, Julian Priester and I really enjoyed Carl Fontana and Frank Rosolino, and still do, along with Bill Watrous, Jack Teagarden and Trummy Young
But JJ was really what did it; it was so clear and pure. That was the way to go.
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“all of a sudden, I go from 11th cornet to the one and only baritone player”
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DOES A TROMBONE PLAYER MAKE A CONSCIOS DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO USE PLUNGERS OR MUTES?
People often equate the trombone (and trumpet) with the plunger mute
I particularly love the way Al Grey plays the plunger. Of course “Tricky” Sam Nanton and Quenton Jackson with Duke Ellington
And now, my contemporaries , Steve Turre and Wycliffe Gordon, are master plunger players
I was curious about the bucket mute, and the cup mute is nice sometimes. The Harmon mute without the stem, the way Miles Davis played it, is nice on the trombone. I haven’t recorded that way yet. Maybe one day
On the few times I have used the bucket mute, one of them is with the recent release on Smoke Sessions that just came out with me and Hank Jones and Peter Washington, which was done 15 years ago. I did it then on a few things because it was just bass, piano and me. It was a good opportunity to try that, and those tunes came out nicely
I gravitated towards trumpet and trombone players, Miles Davis, JJ Johnson, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Chet Baker, Donald Byrd, Kenny Dorham, Curtis Fuller, Slide Hampton, guess that didn’t use the plunger
I felt that my personality was such that I wanted to draw people in with my sound, than with the plunger, which is a very extroverted thing to do. It’s a certain personality; some cats are born for it, and are wonderful doing it. I enjoy hearing it
The older I get, I’m a little more curious to see how I could develop with the plunger , so so far I play it in the section and play the part when needed. But usually, I try to get it happening with my natural sound
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“I felt that my personality was such that I wanted to draw people in with my sound”
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THIS HANK JONES ALBUM IS FANTASTIC. WHY WAS IT UNRELEASED FOR 15 YEARS?
It was originally recorded for John Lee, who had a wonderful label Jazz Legacy Productions (JLP). I had done a session for his label, called Eloquence, in 2007, with Hank Jones, Nat Reeves, Joe Farnsworth, Steve Nelson and Roy Hargrove.
At the completion of that session, I profusely thanked Mr. Jones, as he was just so wonderful and gracious.
He looked me in the eye and said, “Why, Steve, we had so much fun; we ought to do it again.”
I immediately asked John to set up another session, as Jones was 89 at the time, so we set up a followup date.
About 8-10 months later, when he was just a month shy of 90, he was still in great shape and playing unbelievably, razor sharp. It was nothing short of totally inspiring, being in the midst of Hank Jones in that environment.
It was initially for budget reasons, I really liked the idea of doing such an intimate session with just me, piano and bass. Hank and Peter Washington were doing a piano/bass duo gig at Bradley’s, and I was sitting in trying not to mess the whole thing up. (laughs) We were playing standards for the most part
We picked twelve tunes; six of them are on the current release, Volume One, and six more will be on Volume Two. This first one is more ballad-ish, and the next will be more uptempo, along with some duos with Hank. If people are enjoying this one, they can look forward to that one.
It was an absolutely wonderful time recording.
John sat on the record for awhile
A few years went by, and I was asking him when we were going to try to release it.
Meanwhile, I moved on to record for some digital labels before moving to Smoke Sessions
More time went by, and John finally told me some bad news. Because of a computer hard drive crash, we possibly lost the session digitally. But, we were able to locate it
John had retired his label by now; the JLP catalogue is wonderful.
So I approached Paul Stash at Smoke Sessions; he was very interested in it, and we worked it worked out. Chris Allen did some wonderful post production engineering on the sound. Ted Panken wrote wonderful liner notes, a wonderful writer and friend of Hank
The art work is done by Andreas Shapiro who is based in Hartford, CT. His primary art work is jazz musicians; he has a very distinctive style. So it all came together
15 years is a long time coming. There were some frustrating moments along the way, but we made it. It’s so gratifying now.
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“It was nothing short of totally inspiring, being in the midst of Hank Jones in that environment”
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VERY RARELY DO MUSICIANS L ISTEN TO THEIR OLD RECORDINGS, SO WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO GO BACK 15 YEARS TO THAT SESSION? 1707
I had heard it along the way, and I thought it was special as I thought I played as well as I could play at that point
I had played a lot with Peter Washington, one of the great bassists of not only our era, but all time. We’re great friends and close in age, so we had a comfortable rapport even back then.
Both of us admired Hank Jones very much. Just to have the three of us work together was so much fun. And Hank’s spirit was elevating to everything; his joy for the music and for playing it was palpable and infections.
He kept calling for more takes. We’d finish a second take, and I’d think “Man, we’ve got two goodies; let’s keep going”
Hank would say, “Fellas, if you don’t mind, perhaps we could do one more take. You were both magnificent, but I think I could do better” Peter and I look at each other “Yes, Sir!”. We were just having fun just playing, so let’s do another one!
Every take felt so fresh. Hank’s creativity level was awe inspiring
He’d do an intro to one tune, and you’d think it was such a masterpiece that you wouldn’t want to do another take because that one intro was so special. He’d then pull off another one that was equally magnificent; it was an embarrassment of riches. How are you going to pick which one?
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“Hank (Jones) would say, “Fellas, if you don’t mind, perhaps we could do one more take. You were both magnificent, but I think I could do better” Peter and I look at each other “Yes, Sir!”
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HAVE YOU EVER GONE INTO A RECORDING SESSION OR GIG WHERE YOU FELT REALLY INTIDATED AND OVER YOUR HEAD?
Yes. The first record dates of my life were with Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers, and they were with my mentor Jackie McLean.
I was in my early twenties and I was holding on for dear life. But I learned so much from being there
Also playing with Chick Corea with Origin and other projects right up to The Spanish Heart Band in 2019, when we won a Grammy for that record
Chick won the Grammy, but he insisted that the band won it. During the early days of the pandemic a Grammy statuette showed up at my door. Thank you, Chick Corea
The Antidote was the name of that record; what a prescient title, as you know what we went through for a year and a half.
Playing with Chick was awe inspiring, as was playing with Hank Jones
People like Jimmy Heath, Freddie Hubbard and Benny Golson. Harold Mabern, Larry Willis and briefly with Horace Silver…all of these experiences are nothing short of awe-inspiring.
Eventually you learn to cope with your nerves; you realize that you’re there for a reason. You just relax and play the best that you can, so don’t forget to enjoy it.
I found that ability many years ago, but you always know you can do a little better here or there.
You find out that your heroes are human too, and they feel the same way.
I try to give younger musicians the same kind of chance that all of my heroes and masters gave to me and my colleagues.
This is one of the wonderful things about the jazz community that is so inherent in what ***we do-passing down tradition and sharing . The years and generations really dissipate.
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*(Hank Jones would) do an intro to one tune, and you’d think it was such a masterpiece that you wouldn’t want to do another take because that one intro was so special. He’d then pull off another one that was equally magnificent; it was an embarrassment of riches”
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WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THIS?
I realized this when playing with Hank in particular.
It really hit me in a deep way in my late 30s and early 40s, which were some special
We’re all either really here, or we ain’t (laughs). So, you may as well really groove being here.
Hank and I would talk baseball all the time; we’d talk on the phone. We could always talk music; he’d love to discuss chord changes. He’d say, “Well, you could do this progression, or you could do this” and his eyes would get bigger, “Or you could do it this way” and his eyes would get even bigger. I’d say, “Hank, could you please go back to the first one?” (laughs)
His enthusiasm for music at 88, 89, 90 years old was off the charts.
You then start thinking that his guy played these tunes that we’re playing in the 40s, 50s and 60s and recorded them with some of the greatest musicians ever. And here we are in 2007 and all he wants to do is to do another take
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“You’re not consciously thinking about anything except trying to do your best”
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WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING YOU GLEANED FROM YOUR TIME WITH JACKIE MCLEAN?
He was a true mentor to me, and to so many of us young musicians.
The depth of his understanding the commitment and appreciation of the history
I loved the way that he balanced the reverence for his mentors like Bird, Bud Powell, Miles, Lester Young, Dexter Gordon, Art Blakey and Mingus. How reverent he was for all of them, but at the same time he was such a pioneer, and was not satisfied with rehashing the same old thing
You think of that old adage: ”Have one foot in the future, and one in the past; that’s how you walk down the street”. He walked the walk; he understood the balance of creativity and exploration, and how it manifested himself through the music at the same time carrying the tradition of beautiful melodies, the blues, and the American Songbook. He’d call it “The Language”, or “The Concept”
The other thing about being around Jackie and being a member of his band was the conviction and urgency that he went about it. He played with that fire
Chick, Jackie and Art were all the same. You don’t jump up on the bandstand with your own agenda and start ripping away, oblivious to all that’s going on around you
And when you followed him? (laughs)
I say this half jokingly, but following Jackie McLean is like following an acetyline torch! Good luck matching that intensity
As a young trombonist, you had to dig down deep in there, and play your heart out 28
Rene’ McLean was also in the band. Sometimes he’d look at me from across the stage while Jackie is burning and say, “You want to go next?” (laughs) I’d shake my head “NO!”
He’d look at me “I don’t either, but I’ve been through this enough. It’s your turn”
He was actually helping this Youngblood get on that level.
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”Have one foot in the future, and one in the past; that’s how you walk down the street”
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YOU WERE ALSO WITH THE LAST ART BLAKEY BAND AS WELL. YOU WERE IN A LOT OF “LAST BANDS”. DID YOU FEEL A SENSE OF URGENCY OF GLEANING INFORMATIONS FROM THESE MASTERS IN THE LAST YEARS OF THEIR CAREERS?
It never felt like that at the time. At that young age you think about it.
I had met Jackie when I was 17, when he was my teacher. He recommended me to Art. Art liked me enough to say “Join the band”, and he kept me there until the end. I still have to pinch myself.
You’re not consciously thinking about anything except trying to do your best.
But you are aware, are listening and paying very close attention, but you are mostly just in the moment and trying to soak it up.
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“following Jackie McLean is like following an acetyline torch! Good luck matching that intensity”
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DID HE TELL YOU ANYTHING THAT STICKS WITH YOU TO THIS DAY?
Experiences with J Mac, with Buhaina, Chick and Larry Willis…
Larry treated me like a colleague, but it was never lost on him or me that he was mentoring me. He was 25 years older, and had been there, done that, and was such a wealth of knowledge
But Art Blakey was known for casting pearls of wisdom, addressing whatever had to be addressed at that moment
He also played you into the right stuff, without necessarily telling you
It’s kind of like getting seeds planted, and if you tend your garden over the following years, you’re going to have a wonderful musical garden
So, it’s up to you to cultivate that garden to keep practicing and learning.
One time, Art looked at all of the horn players on the front line and said “I see all of you up ***there trying to play your licks. But those licks ain’t yours; once you play it, it’s public domain.”
In the moment, you’re thinking “Hmm. What does he mean?” Years later you know what he meant.
Years later I realized he meant “be a good host to the notes”; they ‘re just passing through so there’s no room for ego. None of it belongs to us. You’re just a conduit
He would also say to the audience “Music washes away the dust of everyday life” and “Go out and tell all of your square friends that they’re missing out on something here. Have your friends come down and spend the money. You can’t take it with you. You never see an armored car following a Hearse!” (laughs)
“There’s no music like it; from The Creator to the artist (and then he’d tap me on the head) direct to you”
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“Chick, Jackie and Art were all the same. You don’t jump up on the bandstand with your own agenda and start ripping away, oblivious to all that’s going on around you”
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WHEN YOU WERE WITH CHICK COREA’S BAND, WERE THERE ANY SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS?
With the Origin band in particular, Chick would nurture within the group. He encouraged and ***set the example so beautifully to really to not ever take for granted playing together. What is your intention when you’re playing?
He would say to Steve Wilson , Bob Sheppard and myself on the front line “Fellas, try not to fall into the cliché’ horn player thing. You’ve got your music stand and your mic and we’re all on stage together as a sextet. But don’t forget that at any given moment that there are 36 possible combinations for us to play together.”
He was right; it could be a solo, or this or that duo, or this trio, or these four…there were all of these lines of communication
That helped me to revisit and realized what a privilege it is to create music and play together
Chick loved the word “creativity”; he’d encourage us to be creative, so you had to be in the moment when you played with him
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“Art Blakey would point to the band and say ‘Ladies and gentlemen, this band here is democracy at work’”
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YOU HAVE A GOOD ATTITUDE ABOUT MUSIC AND LIFE. DO YOU HAVE A PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGION THAT YOU USE AS A MORAL COMPASS?
I owe that to my mom, dad and grandparents
My mom taught me The Golden Rule when I was a little guy. Do unto others as you’d have them do unto you.
I find that through the music and being a “ jazz musician” has afforded me the ability to flow through society in so many ways. In formal settings or very down to earth, on-the-street settings and everything in between
You get to know people, and it fosters an attitude to be truly present in any given moment and consider everyone that you’re really sensitive to what’s going on around you and not just trampling through with your own agenda,
Chick, Jackie and Art were all the same. You don’t jump up on the bandstand with your own agenda and start ripping away, oblivious to all that’s going on around you.
That can work for a minute, but not for long.
Art Blakey would point to the band and say “Ladies and gentlemen, this band here is democracy at work”
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“He also played you into the right stuff, without necessarily telling you
It’s kind of like getting seeds planted, and if you tend your garden over the following years, you’re going to have a wonderful musical garden”
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WHAT DO YOU PASS ON AS A TEACHER?
I enjoy sharing these stories with my students
Whether referring to Jackie , Chick, Buhaina or all of the other greats, you learn how to “be”, and it all comes out in your playing.
WHEN YOU LISTEN TO A TROMBONE PLAYER, WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR AND DO YOU HAVE A PET PEEVE?
No pet peeves
I listen for clarity, and for somebody’s sound. What kind of sound do you have?
The trombone is such a magnificent instrument, that when you hear that sound, and it’s clear and gorgeous, there’s nothing like it. And everybody’s got their own sound
You can tell when a musician is genuinely expressing themselves when they improvise, how they bring the arrangements to life, and how they blend with the other instruments. That’s important
You might get into the technical aspect with articulation and range and think “That’s impressive”, but those things are down the line for me; they don’t matter as much if the initial core aspects of the trombone aren’t happening, like sound and being intentional with what you play
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“You might get into the technical aspect with articulation and range and think “That’s impressive”, but those things are down the line for me; they don’t matter as much if the initial core aspects of the trombone aren’t happening, like sound and being intentional with what you play”
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IS THERE ANY MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, YOU’D PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
Dexter Gordon. I just love him, and I just missed him.
I had a chance and I just blew it and didn’t make it, and he died just months later
To me, he’s the epitome of what this music is all about; he spans the history of jazz
His first big gig was with Louis Armstrong, then with Lionel Hampton. And he was one of the inventors of what we call “bebop” and was right there, developing that language out of Lester Young and into Bird. He ran concurrently with Charlie Parker, Dizzy and Bud
I find that every note that Dexter plays-talk about clarity! (laughs)
You’re not going to miss what Dexter Gordon’s saying! It’s right there for you, and so genuine, soulful, intelligent and highly sophisticated harmonically. And then, his delivery!
As soon as you asked, there is no doubt
Also Lester Young, Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong. I’d give anything to see those greats. Jack Teagarden; just to watch him hold the horn, and then sing and play, like the horn is air in his hands
I’d give anything to see him play. But Dexter? OOOHHH!
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“You get to know people, and it fosters an attitude to be truly present in any given moment and consider everyone that you’re really sensitive to what’s going on around you and not just trampling through with your own agenda”
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YOU ALSO WONDER WHAT HIS SOUND IN CONCERT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE JUDGING FROM IT ON RECORDINGS
That’s what folks who heard him tell me. They say his sound was huge. But not in an “in your face” loud way; it was enveloping.
ANY HISTORICAL FIGURE, LIVING OR DEAD, THAT YOU’D LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN? 4401
There are so many musicians that I met every day and did get to speak with and develop a rapport with.
I’d give anything to go back and have a conversation with Cedar Walton again and play with him again. Same with my dear friend Larry Willis, or Hank Jones or Jimmy Heath. I miss them every day
J Mac. He died in 2006, and I’d love to know his take on the last 5-10 years in this world and our society. What he would have to say would be highly compelling and absolutely hilarious.
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“You’re not going to miss what Dexter Gordon’s saying!”
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HOW ABOUT SOMEONE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH MUSIC?
I would love to talk with Hank Aaron
He’s an incredible role model, pioneer, idol; a very important figure. Of course for his accomplishments as a ballplayer, one of the absolute greatest of all time.
What he and his wife had done down south in Atlanta; Hank Aaron was such an ambassador in society, never mind in the game of baseball. He just seemed like the greatest guy; I’d give anything just to sit down and have had breakfast with him.
I’m a huge baseball fan. I’d love to talk with Ted Williams about hitting! (laughs)
I love ballplayers. I would love to meet Tony Gwynn. What a great hitter, and he seems like such a cool guy.
WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS IN LIFE?
I still want to be able to switch hit in the batting cage when they dial it up to 80-90 mph (laughs)
I could still put the bat on the ball before the pandemic, so in my early 50s
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“‘be a good host to the notes”; they ‘re just passing through so there’s no room for ego. None of it belongs to us. You’re just a conduit”
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WHAT BALLPLAYER WOULD YOU HAVE LIKE TO HAVE SEEN PLAY?
Those I’d never seen in person? So many! Aaron, Williams, Gwynn, Ruth…countless!
Jimmy Foxx. Double X. I would love to have seen him play and put the bat on the ball. His years from 36-42 were unbelievable.
Just to watch Jackie Robinson play all aspects of the game, such a five tool player 4940
I met Ron Swoboda through Larry Willis. He came to a concert that I did, and brings me back to his house. He’s got gloves to Jackie Robinson, lots of memorabilia from his own playing days. I’m like a kid in a candy store
I’m asking him what it was like facing Marichal or Gibson, but I can’t get there, because he’s asking me “What was it like playing with Blakey, man?” (laughs)
WHAT ARE YOUR FAVORITE BASEBALL BOOKS?
Anything by David Halberstam.
Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn
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“We’re all either really here, or we ain’t (laughs). So, you may as well really groove being here”
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WHETHER HE’S PLAYING BASEBALL OR THE TROMBONE, STEVE DAVIS SHOWS THAT WITH EVERY RECORDING, HE’S SWINGING FOR THE FENCES. EVEN BETTER, HE MAKES CONTACT EVERY AT BAT, WHETHER IT’S HIS OWN ALBUMS OR GOING BACK TO A MEETING WITH HALL OF FAMER HANK JONES. EITHER WAY, DAVIS IS SLIDING LIKE HE’S HEADING FOR HOME. CHECK OUT HIS TIMELESS TREATURES.