“THERE IS NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE SACRED AND SECULAR”
Paraphrase from St. Augustine
ONE OF THE LARGEST EXPORTERS OF THE WIDE RANGE OF CUBAN MUSIC IS…CANADIAN!
DUE TO THE VAGARITIES OF WORLD POLITICS, JANE BUNNETT HAS BEEN ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE MUSIC, LAND AND MUSICIANS OF CUBAN UNLIKE ANY AMERICAN. HAVING BROUGHT TO THE EARS OF THE UNITED STATES PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN ARTISTS LIKE HILARIO DURAN, GONZOLO RUBALCALBA AND YOSVANY TERRY, BUNNETT HAS BUILT UP A CATALOGUE JUXTAPOSING THE WIDE VARIETY OF MELODIES AND RHYTHMS OF CUBA ALONGSIDE A COLLECTION OF ALBUMS OF JAZZ IN THE LINE OF HER INSPIRATION CHARLES MINGUS.
HER LATEST ALBUMS HAVE PUSHED THE CREATIVE ENVELOPE FURTHER, BRINGIN IN ALL FEMALE MUSICIANS AND VOCALISTS, MOST NOTABLY OF THE LATTER DAYME AROCENA AND JOANNA MAYOKO
WE RECENTLY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A TALK WITH SWEET JANE, HAVING TAKEN IN A THRILLING SHOW JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO
I FIRST SAW YOU AT THE JAZZ BAKERY RIGHT AFTER 9/11
You were one of the five people there!
I’ll never forget that show because it was one of the most bizarre.
We had played San Francisco the day before. So it’s the morning of 9/11, and it’s an intense time because (percussionist) Pedrito Martinez’s wife was in the NYC subway when it hit, so he was flipping out.
David Vares, our piano player, was supposed to fly back to Toronto and be replaced by Hilario Duran. David and Pedrito pounded on our door letting us know what happened.
We turned on the TV, and it was horrific.
So we then had to figure out how to play at the Jazz Bakery the next night. We didn’t know how we were going to get there, as we were supposed to fly.
The trains weren’t running, so we ended up taking buses, hauling all of our stuff to the bus station in Culver City. There was nobody there to pick us up; we were told by (Bakery owner Ruth Price) to get into taxis\
We arrived at 8:00, just when the show was supposed to start.
The show started with us pulling our bags down the aisle of the Jazz Bakery theater to the stage. That was the beginning of the show, with just 5 people in the audience. (jazz journalist) Don Heckman was there, and he actually wrote a good review of it, even mentioning how the show started with us pulling our suitcases down the aisles.
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“I just thought “Wow” and returned every single night to see Mingus”
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AT THAT SHOW YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU USED TO PLAY THE CLASSICAL PIANO BUT GAVE IT UP FOR THE SAXOPHONE. HOW DID THAT FIRST TRANSITION ACTUALLY OCCUR? NOT TO MENTION THE CROSSOVER TO JAZZ?
I guess it was a giant leap; I didn’t think about it too much at the time.
The thing about the piano was that I went at it all the way. I was a teenager. I love the outdoors and ***skiing, art and music. I was pretty well-rounded, but kind of mediocre at everything. Nothing special.
At 17 I got very serious about the piano, and I started to really practice hard. I had a very demanding teacher, really putting the fire under my pants.
I worked very hard, and I decided that I hadn’t accomplished very much yet, so I decided that I wanted to get my Grade 10 Piano Certificate and finally close the loop on something. When you get to Grade 10, you qualify for a teaching certificate, so I thought it would give me a sense of accomplishment.
But by doing it I developed tendonitis, mostly because of the amount of time I was practicing, I didn’t have the muscle build up to do what I was doing.
It usually takes 10 years to work up to that Grade, and I was just practicing 8 hours a day, sitting in the wrong position at the piano at our house. My teacher never saw me practice at home. So, I really wrecked my right hand
I saw a bunch of doctors and they all said I had to leave the piano for awhile or get surgery.
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“The show started with us pulling our bags down the aisle of the Jazz Bakery theater to the stage. That was the beginning of the show, with just 5 people in the audience”
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WHAT DID YOU DO?
I took 6 weeks off to let it all simmer down.
I was in San Francisco at the time, and I happened to go see Charles Mingus for a 5 night run at Keystone Korner.
I had heard some Mingus records before, from my dad’s collection, and had seen a number of performers come through Toronto.
But something happened on that trip at 18. I just thought “Wow” and returned every single night to see Mingus.
I then went back and finished my Grade 10 Piano and decided I wanted to play jazz.
It was a weird decision, as there were no jazz institutions back then, as there are now. There were no Jazz Studies programs at any universities where I lived.
I was trying to figure how to go about learning about this music, and I eventually happened upon a workshop in Toronto where players would get together, listen to records and go hear some jazz.
HOW DID YOU CHANGE INSTRUMENTS?
In my last year in high school, I picked up the flute, bought one and started noodling away on it.
When I got super serious, I bought a soprano sax, which was a totally bizarre thing. 1025
I was in my first year of university and fell on the stairs of the university campus and broke my ankle. I was on crutches, hobbling around, and my administrator saw me trying to get around in the snow.
She asked what happened, and I told her I fell down the stairs. She said “you can get some money for that. You can get an out of court settlement. Go into the administrative building and fill out a form .”
That’s what I did. I found a guy who was selling a Selmer soprano sax for $678. That is still my horn.
DO YOU REMEMBER THE PIANIST FROM MINGUS’ GIGS?
It was Don Pullen
YOU STILL SEEM TO HAVE THIS AFFINITY FOR PIANISTS. YOU’VE DONE DUETS WITH PULLEN AND HILARIO DURAN
Oh, yes. I did a record with Stanley Cowe (with Dewey Redman). I still love writing music at the piano.
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“when we got to Cuba, there was so much music there that within 5 hours of being there I had already heard five styles of Cuban music”
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YOUR EARLY ALBUMS ARE VERY MINGUSY IN APPROACH, AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THIS LATIN LIFE
That whole thing came about because I’m Canadian. Larry (Cramer-husband and trumpeter) went to Cuba one time because there was an ad in the newspaper for a very cheap travel vacation package. It was like $340 for the week for hotel, airplane and airport taxes.
I had gone three times to Mexico, as January/February in Ontario is brutal. I kept getting sick every time I went to Mexico, and someone told me they went to Cuba and were fine, so we went there, in 1982.
Even when I was playing classical piano, I was always attracted to the Spanish composers like Albeniz, and also like Ravel and Debussy. That’s what I loved to play
I also loved Mingus’ record Cumbia and Jazz Fusion; I always loved that interplay.
So when we got to Cuba, there was so much music there that within 5 hours of being there I had already heard five styles of Cuban music. Even at the airport there was a trio playing these beautiful boleros! On the bus there was a quartet playing while we were putting our suitcases on. There was music outside the hotel, and then that night there was a 10 piece band playing at the outdoor bar. These guys were playing these beautiful mambos. It was just unbelievable; it was like nothing I had ever heard.
That was in Santiago. Three weeks later we went to Havana. That’s where we met Chucho Valdez and other great musicians. That’s how it got started.
My first love is jazz, and most of my heroes are the jazz greats. But, I love Cuban music and mixing the two things up.
I’m not a Cuban musician. They have such interesting rhythmic ideas to work with in the context of their music.
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“My first love is jazz, and most of my heroes are the jazz greats. But, I love Cuban music and mixing the two things up”
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YOU TOOK LESSONS FROM SOPRANO SAX ICON STEVE LACY. WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM HIM?
The biggest thing I learned from Steve Lacy was his openness to using his music for collaboration. He saw the big picture of his art, and what it could do, working with dancers, poets and artists.
I saw him first hand doing these very interesting collaborations. Also, his investigation into Thelonious Monk’s music, in which he felt so well fitted with the soprano sax.
I was largely self taught; I picked up a few lessons, but being able to study with a master like Steve Lacy for a year was eye opening. He had an approach to micro music-he took very tiny intervallic relationships with what you can do with sound. It’s still kind of hitting me now, since I tend to play in bigger gestures with the Cuban music.
It couldn’t be more opposite than what Steve Lacy did. 2009 It’s just another way of thinking about music. He was such a researcher; he left no stone unturned when working on his music, and from going from A to B. And, he enjoyed the journey.
I used to find it interesting going over to his place, because on his music stand he might some article open, for example. He might have a (Dutch painter Piet) Mondrian painting book opened up on his music stand, and he’d be painting to that. Next time he’d have something else and be playing to that.
He was a great thinker
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“I’m not a Cuban musician. They have such interesting rhythmic ideas to work with in the context of their music”
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YOU HAVE FALLEN INTO HIS FOOTSTEPS WITH PIANO DUETS, AS HE DID WITH MAL WALDRON
I did get that from him, because you get a more intimate interaction
When the pairing is so small, with just piano or guitar, you can do more nuanced things that you can’t necessarily do when you have a full band. It also makes travel pretty easy too! (laughs)
ANOTHER ASPECT OF YOUR CATALOGUE IS YOUR WORK WITH STRINGS
That was with 18 musicians. That was really daunting; it was called Embracing Voices
There was also a ten piece a cappella choir Grupo Vocal Desandann.
That was nerve-wracking. We were travelling in an RV, pulling up to Red Roof Inns and eating from hot plates. It looked like a soup kitchen with everyone lined up in front of the RV getting their food in a parking lot! It was a crazy time!
I like to do projects that are different.
I don’t try to repeat myself, which is why we have this new recording.
I’ve never worked with electric guitar before. I’ve done a couple little things, but this one with Donna Grantis was a very different thing.
Donna was with Prince for a number of years, right up until his passing. He had put together an all female ensemble called 3RDEYEGIRL, and she was one of the three players backing Prince on tour.
She adds a whole new sonic level to our cd.
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“The biggest thing I learned from Steve Lacy was his openness to using his music for collaboration. He saw the big picture of his art, and what it could do, working with dancers, poets and artists”
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THE LAST FEW BANDS HAVE BEEN ALL FEMALE, AS OPPOSED TO YOUR EARLIER DAYS. IS THAT A CONSCIOUS DECISION, OR JUST HOW THINGS HAVE WORKED OUT?
It came over a period of time.
When we first had Spirits of Havana, we had so many great young musicians, Dafnis Prieto, Hilario Duran, Yosvany Terry and so many others that have come through our group and created pretty remarkable careers on their own.
I just realized that they were all guys
We go into the Conservatories when we go into Cuba, and I meet a lot of women that are in the music programs, and they were never on the scene.
I’d go out into a jam session at some festival, and I wouldn’t see any of them playing. They might be there, but they wouldn’t have their instruments with them. They were just watching their friends play, they’d say. I thought that was stupid.
I told this to Larry, and he said “Stop talking about it and do something.”
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“on (Steve Lacy’s) music stand he might some article open, for example. He might have a (Dutch painter Piet) Mondrian painting book opened up on his music stand, and he’d be painting to that. Next time he’d have something else and be playing to that”
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CLASSIC HUSBAND RESPONSE!
Yes!
I then met a young singer named Dayme’ Arocena in Cuba. I invited her to a private concert at a hotel for a roomful of Canadian tourists. She sang and was very good with a lot of potential.
I then invited her to Toronto to be part of a musical show that I was directing for a fundraiser for a woman’s shelter. I then went down to Cuba with her to audition some people to put something together.
It was really a leap of faith, with terrible rehearsals because of a blackout at time. We finally went into a ***studio and had all types of issues. The piano was broken. The bassist was actually a bassoonist, but she wanted to be in the band so she learned the bass on a broken bass and recorded with it. I didn’t even know this at the time
I then went back to Canada to fix up all the recorded parts, because the bass was so stinky. We ended up getting a Juno award for that record! That was our first project, in 2015. It was like a one-off. Larry produced it and said, “Ah, let’s see what happens.”
This is way before the MeToo movement, with all kinds of women groups. We were one of the first All Women bands out there, especially with Cuban material. We were a good 10 years ahead of bands like Artemis, but being in Canada we don’t get as much notice We’ve worked so hard, and the band has gotten really good. There’s a great chemistry and teamship.
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“We were one of the first All Women bands out there, especially with Cuban material”
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IS IT DIFFICULT FOR A CANADIAN BAND TO COME AND TOUR IN AMERICA.
The pianist really helps with things like Visas. It’s amazing the amount of work we have to do to make a tour in the US.
Just to put a petition to the State Department, it costs around $9000. That’s just for the petition, for permission to come. Then there are the Visas; every time we come into the US we have to apply for a new Visa, so we’re constantly re-applying.
For example, with (bassist) Tailin Marrero, she’s gotten the runaround in Havana, so we have to bring her up to Canada. She’s away from home and family, and has to go to the US Consulate, then the German Consulate…there’s so much work to do; you’re never really free
But that is one of the things about when the band hits the bandstand, we have put in so much work getting from A to B and finally get in front of the audience that we are really ready to play. We don’t take these things for granted
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“when the band hits the bandstand, we have put in so much work getting from A to B and finally get in front of the audience that we are really ready to play. We don’t take these things for granted”
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WHEN YOU HEAR A FLUTE AND SOPRANO SAX PLAYER, WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR, AND DO YOU HAVE A PET PEEVE?
They are both pretty much the same thing.
What I love about the soprano is when they play it in tune, because it is quite a difficult instrument to play in tune. Because they play other horns, many people can play fast on the soprano, because it is a lighter instrument and easier to get around. But by playing so fast they can easily go out of tune.
So, when I hear a soprano player play in tune with a beautiful sound, that’s what I love. And there are some good ones out there.
For the flute, I guess it is I don’t like when the flute players don’t play the whole instrument, from the very bottom register of the flute to the very top. The bottom register is very beautiful, and for the top register you have to use taste.
The flute is very high, and it can get very irritating if you’re always just in the upper register. So I like hearing the whole range of the instrument.
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“when I hear a soprano player play in tune with a beautiful sound, that’s what I love…because it is a lighter instrument and easier to get around. But by playing so fast they can easily go out of tune”
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WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
I have to say Charlie Parker.
He was one of the most masterful, genius musicians.
On Charlie Parker’s best nights, it was just phenomenal, with the speed, the ideas, the syncopation, the swing, and just the idea of what could do.
I’d want to pick two, Charlie Parker and John Coltrane
WHO IN WORLD HISTORY, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU LOVE TO SPEND AN EVENING WITH AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
My first thought was Charles Darwin, but then I jumped to Groucho Marx (laughs)
If I had Darwin, it might get too boring after awhile, so it would be more fun with Groucho Marx.
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“We were travelling in an RV, pulling up to Red Roof Inns and eating from hot plates. It looked like a soup kitchen with everyone lined up in front of the RV getting their food in a parking lot! It was a crazy time”
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IS THERE ANY BOOK THAT HAS INFLUENCED YOU THAT YOU’D RECOMMEND?
There’s one by a Canadian doctor, Gabor Mate. He’s written a number of very interesting books. One I really found interesting was called When The Body Says No , which is all about diseases, like ALS, cancer, multiple sclerosis.
His feeling is that the problem is that the immune system turns on itself, and that there are reasons for that. I like reading those kind of books.
There’s also a writer, a West Indian woman named Dionne Brand. She’s written a lot of great books, and I really liked What We All Long For.
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY ?
Being in nature with (my husband) Larry. Going out on walks with him.
I’m very to be where I am up in the woods; we have a log cabin. I love being in the cabin, stoking the fire and practicing. But getting on a plane or a train and doing all of the travelling to get to a gig, it’s a living hell.
I’m Irish heritage, and hiking in Ireland with Larry is on my bucket list.
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“(Steve Lacy) was such a researcher; he left no stone unturned when working on his music, and from going from A to B. And, he enjoyed the journey”
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WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
My biggest is to get healthier. I think I could be a healthier person.
During the first year of COVID, I was doing great. I was tired because of all of the work in being our tenth year with Maqueque. It was very hard work, an uphill battle to create all of our works and get from A to B, keeping the band together.
That first year of COVID, when everything stopped, I started to reflect on things. I realized that I was working in a way that wasn’t normal, for either me or Larry. We weren’t taking care of ourselves as well as we could.
At our age, you start feeling things you didn’t feel before; it’s like “what the heck?!?”
So, I want to focus on that, and also spend more time with the people around me. I have friends in which I haven’t invested time in, because I’ve been so driven with keeping the band together, with the music and the recordings.
AS ONE CAN OBSERVE, JANE BUNNETT IS DEDICATED TO BRINGING MUSIC TO ALL WILLING EARS. WITH AN INSPIRING DETERMINATION, SHE SPREADS THE GOOD NEWS OF COMBINING THE BEST OF TWO WORLDS OF MUSIC, MAKING A MELODIC WORLD OF HER OWN. NO WONDER SO MANY OF HER ALBUMS MIX IDEAS OF THE SPIRIT AND THE WORLD, AS IN JANE’S WORLD VIEW, AS WITH GOOD COMPANY LIKE ST. AUGUSTINE, THERE IS NOT A SECULAR OR SPIRITUAL WORLD, BUT ONE.