WE ALL HAVE SECRET PASTS THAT EVENTUALLY COME OUT WHEN YOU LEAST SUSPECT IT.
I REMEMBER TRAVELLING WITH MY FAMILY IN ITALY, RETURNING TO ROME WHERE I ONCE WORKED. WHILE TAKING A TAXI THROUGH TOWN AND CONVERSING WITH THE TAXI DRIVER, I HAPPENED TO LOOK IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR AND NOTICED MY 13 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER STARING AT ME IN A PECULIAR FASHION.
I ASKED HER WHAT WAS WRONG, AND SHE REPLIED, “YOU’RE SPEAKING ITALIAN TO THE CAB DRIVER!” I TOLD HER, ” YES; I USED TO LIVE HERE. WHAT’S THE BIG DEAL?”
“GEE, DAD” SHE SUMMARIZED, “I JUST REALIZED THAT AT ONE TIME YOU ACTUALLY HAD A LIFE”
IN A SIMILAR VEIN, MOST PEOPLE ASSOCIATE PIANIST/KEYBOARDIST TOM GRANT WITH SMOOTH JAZZ, RELEASING SERIES OF EASY ON THE EARS ALBUMS IN THE 80S AND 90S LIKE HEART OF THE CITY AND LIP SERVICE.
BUT THERE WAS A SECRET LIFE THAT GRANT HAD BACK IN THE DAY.
JUST RECENTLY A HERETOFORE UNRELEASED SESSION OF TONY WILLIAMS WITH GRANT AT THE KEYS HAS COME OUT OF THE CLOSET, TITLED PLAY OR DIE. RECORDED IN 1980, IT CAPTURES WILLIAMS AT A UNIQUE TIME OF HIS CAREER, REFLECTING A DIFFERENT COLOR OF HIS MUSICAL RAINBOW. IT’S NOT ONLY A FASCINATING PERSPECTIVE OF THE FAMED LATE DRUMMER, BUT IT BRINGS OUT A PART OF GRANT’S MUSICAL PAST THAT HE WAS RECENTLY WILLING TO DIVULGE.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO GET TO KNOW TOM GRANT, AND HIS PERSPECTIVE OF HIS EARLY DAYS WITH WILLIAMS AS WELL AS OTHER GIANTS OF JAZZ IS FASCINATING TO TAKE IN.
I HAD HEARD YOUR SMOOTH ALBUMS BEFORE, BUT THIS RECENTLY RELEASED SESSION WITH TONY WILLIAMS WAS A SURPRISE. SO, I LOOKED BACK INTO YOUR HISTORY, AND YOU HAD QUITE A HARD BOPPING BACKGROUND IN THE JAZZ TRADITION
YOUR FIRST GIG WAS WITH WOODY SHAW?
Yes, I was playing in this after hours joint in Portland, and Woody had come to town to play a gig at Portland State University, but somehow it got cancelled and he got directed to our place with myself and longtime friend and drummer Ron Stein. We were playing a gig there, kind of an “open mic” thing.
In comes Woody Shaw. I didn’t know anything about him, but Ron was such a jazz freak that he recognized him right away. He sat in with us, and the next thing I know, he hired us to come up to Vancouver, BC to play a gig with him.
It was playing tunes that we all knew, and going with it.
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“I didn’t know anything about him, so I wasn’t star struck then, but I was after the fact”
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DID YOU FEEL OVER YOUR HEAD?
I didn’t know anything about him, so I wasn’t star struck then, but I was after the fact.
A few months after he took us on the Vancouver, he was living in the Bay Area. He was friends with Joe Henderson and gave him our names and numbers, as Joe was looking for a band to put together for a tour.
That tour led to my first-ever album, which was recorded with Joe in Europe. (Mystified) Rick Laird, from the Mahavishnu Orchestra was the bassist and we did a record for Rick and then for me in The Netherlands. Joe produced them and played on them. That was my first of 30 albums
WHAT WAS IT LIKE TOURING WITH HENDERSON
Oh, boy.
One of the main things that he wanted, and that I had great difficulty with, was that he ****wanted everyone to solo LONG. Make the solos long, so sometimes a whole set with Joe would consist of just three songs.
That was counter-intuitive for me, because after a few times through the chorus of Joe’s songs, while they’d be interesting , the forms of them were very long; it was counter intuitive for me.
But he insisted on it. He’d take me aside after a set and sit at the bar, and he’d say “Tommy, you’ve got to play longer.” If that’s learning something, that is something I learned.
I learned to be respectful of this guy who had such a history, playing with Miles for awhile, and a star of the left wing of jazz music
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“(Joe Henderson) would take me aside after a set and sit at the bar, and he’d say “Tommy, you’ve got to play longer.”
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YOU DIDN’T EXACTLY SWITCH TO A MORE CONCISE PLAYER WHEN YOU BECAME A SIDEMAN FOR CHARLES LLOYD
(chuckle) Charles was a whole different story.
He had a different personality.
He had a nice sound, and he played some really pretty stuff and some really nice songs. I remember one song he did with Keith Jarrett that became a hit, “Forest Flower”.
HOW WAS THAT DIFFERENT THAN DEXTER GORDON?
I only played with him a couple times. He came to our club in Portland, the Jazz De Opus. Dexter came in town looking for a band so he put one together with me and my buddy Ron Stein
Ron Stein is an important person in my life
He is a drummer here in Portland who really starts careers for people. Trumpeter Chris Botti started with Ron. He’s a real advocate.
I was teaching school in the 1970s in a small town in Oregon. I was teaching Social Studies, playing gigs on weekends with Ron. He finally tells me “you’ve got to get out of this small town, stop teaching, come up to Portland and I’ll make sure you’re working all of the time”
He was such a force on the Portland music scene, and I owe a lot to him.
WHEN YOU HAVE THESE SHORT RUNS WITH ARTISTS, ARE YOU JUST IN “SURVIVE MODE” ARE DO YOU TRY TO GLEAN FROM THEIR MUSICAL MINDS?
A bit of both
I did a number of gigs with Charles Lloyd, but it was always in “survival mode”. I would tell myself “just get through this one, and you don’t have to do anymore” (laughs)
But they all count for something
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“I did a number of gigs with Charles Lloyd, but it was always in “survival mode”. I would tell myself “just get through this one, and you don’t have to do anymore” (laughs)”
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WAS IT A BIG SWITCH GOING FROM YOUR FRIEND STEIN TO BILLY COBHAM AS YOUR DRUMMER?
I was doing a recording with Jim Pepper. During that time I was transitioning from teaching to going to full time playing, I was with Pepper and Ron Stein
That was just on one recording on Pepper’s album called Pepper’s Pow Wow. Pepper is of Indian descent, so the songs had that kind of that American Indian vibe to them. Particularly one called “Wichitai-To”
I did that song with my own band all through the 70s and 80s. To this very day, wherever I am playing, people will come in and ask for it. I’ll play it and they are in rapture. (chuckles)
HOW DID ALL OF THIS LEAD TO TONY WILLIAMS? WHO FOUND WHO?
He found me.
It starts with Jeff Lorber, who took up residence in Vancouver, Washington, which is right across the river from Portland. He’d play in this one club where we all played, called Ray’s Helm.
Jeff took some lessons from me, and moved to The Bay Area. He’s at a party, and Tony Williams is there. They get into a conversation.
Tony was trying to put together a band to go on the road. He had just released an album where his management tried to get a bunch of prominent names in the jazz world. That was the album right before he put together our band to go on the road and promote it. (Fear of Flying)
Tony was looking for a guitar player, and Jeff gave him the name of Todd Carver, who is in my band.
Todd says, “You’ll never guess who called me!”
“Who?”
The phone rings and he says, “Hi Todd, I’m Tony Williams”
“Are you THE Tony WIlliams”
“Well, I’m A Tony Williams” (laughs) which shows you how cool it was that Tony Williams would be so modest ,as well as funny.
He hired Todd just over phone. I was jealous and happy for Todd
A few weeks later, Todd called and said that Tony was looking for a keyboard player, so I gave him my name.
Tony calls me.
In those days, you could leave your message on a phone machine, and I made mine to have ***a synthesizer message along with my singing voice, like a VOCODER. It sounded very space-casey.
Tony hired me on the basis of THAT! (laughs)
He just loved the idea that somebody would do something that weird for their telephone ****message. He hired me over the phone based on my phone message! That’s the kind of guy Tony was.
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“The phone rings and he says, “Hi Todd, I’m Tony Williams”
“Are you THE Tony Williams”
“Well, I’m A Tony Williams” (laughs) which shows you how cool it was that Tony Williams would be so modest ,as well as funny.”
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DID YOU GET ALONG PERSONALLY WITH HIM
He was the opposite of all of the guys you mentioned, like Lloyd and Henderson, in that he was such a sweet and lovely person.
I was blown away that in a few weeks, Todd and I were driving down from Portland to the Bay Area where Tony lived, and we were thinking “Who does this?!?”
WAS THERE AN AUDITION?
No, but I’m sure that our first session with Tony was an audition, because if he didn’t like us, he would have sent one or both of us back to Portland.
We get there; Todd is playing guitar, I’m at the keyboards. There was no bass player yet.
We said “hello” and there wasn’t very much conversation. The next thing I know, I’m sitting at the keyboard, and Tony’s sitting at The Tony Williams Drum Kit, which was an amazing thing. I was just dumbstruck by the whole experience.
He said to play something that we know, so we did a song that Todd had written for my band.
The sensation of the power of his drumming was like taking off in a jet plane; it was really a moving experience.
He might have ended up hiring other people, but bassist Bunny Brunel came in for a bit.
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“The sensation of the power of his drumming was like taking off in a jet plane; it was really a moving experience”
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THE ALBUM HAS A BIT OF A JAM SESSION FEEL. WERE THE SONGS ACTUALLY WRITTEN OUT?
There was only one song that was a jam, and it’s labeled as such on the record.
Everything else was a song with a title. There was no set list, so when we were on the road he would just start playing and we’d have to recognize the groove of the certain song. Then, we’d be off and running.
Bunny was in the band, and we then got a second keyboardist, Bruce Harris
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“There was no set list, so when we were on the road he would just start playing and we’d have to recognize the groove of the certain song. Then, we’d be off and running”
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DID THE WAY YOU PLAYED THE SONGS CHANGE MUCH FROM NIGHT TO NIGHT?
Oh, yes. By the time the record was being recorded, he had changed the band. It was just me, bassist Patrick O’Hearn and Tony.
The five piece band had its moments; it was fun 2801 and chaotic.
I remember we were somewhere in the South of France on tour. Tony called me over to his breakfast table, and he said “I want to change the band; I want to keep you in it.”
I told him about Patrick the bass player, who was also from Portland. I was worried that Todd, who got me the gig was sitting right there. Tony made a gesture of a guitar player playing really dreamy, and he wanted someone more fierce. But he ended up not finding another guitar player; we stayed a trio.
HOW DID THE BAND FINALLY BREAK UP?
We did the tour, and then the record, which was the last thing that we did.
I then started my own recording career. I had Tony come up to play on one song. It wasn’t a great song, but once Tony played drums on it, it became great. It was on my second record You Hardly Know Me.
It’s funny, because when I am saying “You Hardly Know Me” I’m talking to Tony.
It’s like “Listen to theses songs; this is who I really am. You’ll hear how I’m influenced by my experience with you”. He played so great on that song.
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“I had Tony come up to play on one song. It wasn’t a great song, but once Tony played drums on it, it became great”
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WHEN DID YOU LAST SEE OR TALK TO HIM?
I don’t want to cry right now.
I know exactly when it was. He came up to Portland for my recording, and I think he was a bit annoyed. I got to know him really well, and I knew the kind of things that annoyed him.
One of the biggest things that annoyed him, was that when we were being introduced to a ****crowd, and the MC would go into a long thing about Tony Williams’ experience with Miles Davis. Tony hated that, and a lot of time, whoever our host was, he would tell the MC, “please don’t dwell on my experience with Miles Davis’ band.
The reason was because the music we were doing was much more in the fusion bag than the bebop stuff; he didn’t want to give the audience the wrong impression. He also wanted to be respected for who he was and what he was doing then.
Some people didn’t want to hear that, because they were hiring him because of his experience with Miles and association with John McLaughlin.
As an illustration…
One time we were in Germany, and the MC was introducing us in English so we’d understand. He went on a long thing about Tony’s experience with Miles Davis. All of a sudden, there was this SHOT, it sounded like a bomb going off.
It was Tony hitting his snare drum so hard that he just wanted to interrupt the flow of that guy’s introduction.
You could hear a pin drop, except for one male German voice way out in the crowd whisper, “Scheisse” (laughs) It literally scared the (crap) out of everyone in the room.
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“He also wanted to be respected for who he was and what he was doing then”
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DID THE FANS ACCEPT YOU FOR WHO YOU WERE, OR WERE THEY DISAPPOINTED THAT YOU DIDN’T PLAY LIFETIME MATERIAL?
I think some of them accepted us. Some would come back stage and want to talk about McLaughlin and that whole thing, but he didn’t want to talk about it. He was really sensitive and sweet.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU GLEANED FROM BEING WITH HIM?
This is kind of an anomaly because his playing was so fierce. As a human being he was so soft, just the sweetest person. The contrast between his public and musical person, and who he really was is something I’m glad we’re talking about.
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“(Tony Williams) is kind of an anomaly because his playing was so fierce. As a human being he was so soft, just the sweetest person. The contrast between his public and musical person, and who he really was is something I’m glad we’re talking about”
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YOU’VE HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL CAREER IN THE “SMOOTH JAZZ” FIELD. DO YOU EVER LOOK BACK ON THESE YEARS AND THINK “I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS MUSIC”?
All of the time, especially when I’m playing “live”.
Somehow, when I’m dealing with it the most is when I’m playing here in my hometown for the hometown folks. A lot of them come to see me for the smooth jazz stuff, and they request those songs.
But then there are those that are still into the bebop thing, they know not to come see me anymore! (laughs)
WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR WHEN YOU LISTEN TO A PIANO PLAYER, AND WHAT IS YOUR PET PEEVE ABOUT PIANISTS?
Interesting question…
I’m a competitive guy, so I first think “how is this guy’s technique?”
I can play a million miles an hour, but then I hear my albums and I think “Slow down! Who are you trying to impress?”
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“I can play a million miles an hour, but then I hear my albums and I think ‘Slow down! Who are you trying to impress?’”
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WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
Charlie Parker. I’m a bebopper.
And, the other way of dealing with that question is that I’ve already seen some of them.
I saw Thelonious Monk, who is a weird person. I loved the way he played, and the fact that he could write songs like “’Round Midnight” and “Pannonica”, and Oh, my God, “Ruby My Dear”! Those are beautiful songs.
I saw Monk at the Five Spot several nights in a row, as I was visiting my brother in New York. It was my senior year in High School.
I was so impressed just by how weird he was, and what the source of this cool music was like. He would get up and do this little dance after his solo, maybe during the drum solo or while the saxophone was playing. The dance was so strange, but I loved it.
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“Some would come back stage and want to talk about McLaughlin and that whole thing, but he didn’t want to talk about it”
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ARE THERE ANY BOOKS OR A RELIGION OR PHILOSOPHY THAT HAVE INFLUENCED YOU?
I’m not a voracious reader, but I did go to college and got a Masters in Political Science (laughs) What a waste of time!
My brother is the philosopher. He started the Hare Krishna movement. That was a book I was going to refer to. His name is Michael Grant, but the name that he uses is Makunda Goswami
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“I’m not a voracious reader, but I did go to college and got a Masters in Political Science (laughs) What a waste of time!”
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WHAT’S THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE HAS GIVEN YOU?
“Play what you want, the way that you want to”
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
“This man played what he wanted when he wanted”
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY IN LIFE?
My life is kind of boring in a way, but all I want to do is play music
MY MUSICAL TEACHER USED TO TELL ME “WHEN YOU PAY TO SEE A MUSICIAN PERFORM, YOU’RE NOT JUST PAYING FOR THAT 1 1/2 HOUR; YOU’RE PAYING FOR ALL OF THE YEARS THAT IT TOOK HIM TO GET THERE.
TOM GRANT JUST DIDN’T JUMP INTO THE J AZZ SCENE, HE HAS FOLLOWED HIS PATH, CARVED AHEAD BY THE MASTERS. IT’S A TREK THAT HE APPRECIATES, AND HOPEFULLY, WE WILL AS WELL.