“HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND, INSTEAD OF BEING UNDERSTOOD”
ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI
ONE OF THE THINGS I LOVED MOST WHEN I LIVED IN ISRAEL BACK IN 1981 IS THAT EVERYONE WANTED TO HEAR YOUR OPINION. SURE, THERE’S THE OLD JOKE ‘IF YOU HAVE 10 ISRAELIS, YOU GET 11 OPINIONS’, BUT I’VE NEVER FOUND A GROUP OF PEOPLE MORE INTERESTED IN LEARNING FROM OTHERS.
DOES IT COME FROM THE TRADITION OF THE TORAH, THAT TELLS THE PARENTS TO “TEACH YOUR CHILDREN DILIGENTLY” AS WELL AS THE PROPHETS DECLARING “COME, LET US REASON TOGETHER”?
FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, LISTENING AND LEARNING HAVE BEEN INCULCATED INTO THE JEWISH PSYCHE.
TENOR SAXIST DANIEL ROTEM, ISRAELI BORN AND LIVING IN LA, HAS TAKEN ON THE RABBINICAL ROLE OF TAKING LESSONS FROM THE JAZZ PAST AND BRINGING THEM TO HIS STUDENTS.
HE’S RELEASED A NUMBER OF IMPRESSIVE ALBUMS, RANGING FROM LIVE CONCERTS TO HIS MOST RECENT, A SOLO ALBUM AS WELL AS A TRIBUTE TO JOHN COLTRANE.
WE RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH ROTEM, JUST BEFORE STARTING A GIG AS A SIDEMAN FOR FELLOW ISRAELI BASSIST ADI MEYERSON AT MR. MUSICHEAD. LIKE HIS MUSIC, WE FOUND HIM ACCESSIBLE, RESPECTFUL AND REFLECTIVE.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF FROM THE LOCKDOWN?
I think I’ve been learning the same things I’ve been learning my whole life: one day at a time.
I try to make sure that I pace myself; I check on the people that I care about. The same kind of stuff I’ve done before.
HOW DOES A MUSICIAN MAKE A LIVING DURING A LOCKDOWN?
It’s been challenging. It’s challenging to see what’s been happening with the community, but I’ve been very fortunate to continue working, writing, playing (at home, obviously-no shows) and a lot of teaching, which I’ve always been passionate about.
I’ve been teaching at the LACHSA high school, and in September I began teaching at Occidental College as well.
You kind of find your way. A lot of people find themselves doing other things as well. It’s unfortunately always been like that in the arts.
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“I wanted that element of missing the other sounds; missing their perspectives to be present, too”
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I KNOW A TROMBONIST WHO TOLD ME “THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TROMBONIST IN LA THAT MAKES A LIVING ONLY BY PLAYING THE TROMBONE”.
There needs to be a change as to how music is perceived and experienced, and in general how art is compensated for.
Art is now more important than ever. You see all of these trends happening in the financial world, the bubble that keeps growing and growing. At some point it’s going to blow up and everyone knows it and they’ll get hurt.
So the things that we need to invest in are in the arts and education. Those are the places where budgets should be going.
DO YOU THINK THE SUPPORT SHOULD BE PRIVATE, PUBLIC, GOVERNMENT?
That’s a big question, and a big answer. More than anything, there just has to be a new approach as to how arts are experienced and appreciated.
I think it must come from all levels of life. I don’t think it will be just a private thing; I think there is an element of recruiting, and explaining to people what art does.
Everybody knows. People go to a museum, see a painting on the wall, and all of a sudden a tear falls down and “Wow. This has been sitting inside of me”!
This is what happens when they go to a concert, they sit, and when they listen the suddenly don’t feel alone. They feel a part of something else.
People knows what it feels like; they just don’t understand how much work it takes to bring those experiences to them.
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“when they go to a concert, they sit, and when they listen the suddenly don’t feel alone. They feel a part of something else.”
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MY TEACHER USED TO TELL ME “WHEN YOU PAY YOUR ADMISSION TICKET, YOU AREN’T PAYING FOR THE PERFORMANCE, BUT FOR THE HOURS OF PRACTICE IT TOOK TO GET THERE”.
And it doesn’t even come close!
It’s very challenging to navigate. I’ve been fortunate to find my way, but I look at a lot of people who have been terribly hit by these two years.
AS A TEACHER, WHAT IS THE BIGGEST THING YOU TRY TO TEACH YOUR STUDENTS?
Be a good listener, to listen to everything.
I had as one of my teachers, Hal Crook, a great player and improvisor. When I moved to Boston I started working with him. Working with him was hearing somebody do something that I’ve been thinking should be done the whole time, and talking about it in a way that was so profound.
One of the things that he told me was to be a listener that plays, rather than a player that listens.
I try to pass that on to my students. It’s just not important in music, but also in life.
If you come to a conversation, and you listen first, you’ll always be able to find a middle ground, you’ll always be in demand, even in conversation. Sharing, exchanging, thinking and growing. That’s one of the top things that I encourage.
Also, I teach them to maintain a feeling of community, of supporting each other. We need to understand that we all move together as a whole, or not at all.
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“be a listener that plays, rather than a player that listens”
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YOUR GENERATION IS MUCH MORE RELATIONAL THAN MY OLDER ONE IS. FRIENDSHIP IS A BIG FACTOR IN MUSICAL MEETINGS. IT’S NOT LIKE THE OLD DAYS WHEN A MUSICIAN WOULD JUST HIRE A LOCAL RHYTHM SECTION AND BLOW.
Some people are still able to do that, and generations comes and takes its new challenges, but to a larger extent it seems like we reshaped things a little bit, and things have changed.
In the past, the school used to be on the band stand; but people can’t afford to do that now. So now, on tours we use the same people. There are still a few bands that really encourage young blood and new people, but to a large extent touring is not the way that it used to be. The perspective has had to change because of that.
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“We need to understand that we all move together as a whole, or not at all”
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AND TALK ABOUT CHANGES IN THE BAND! YOUR LAST ALBUM WAS THE ULTIMATE “SOLO” ALBUM IN THAT YOU WERE UNACCOMPANIED THE ENTIRE TIME! EACH SONG WAS MORE OF A MOOD THAN A MELODY. WHAT WAS THE THOUGHT BEHIND THE RELEASE?
I’ve always known that I wanted to do a ‘solo’ record , and I’ve been sitting on a couple of ones that I had finished for quite awhile. One is about to be released.
But, during the pandemic it just got to the point where I felt that there were so many things that were going on that as much as I wanted to share music, it just wasn’t the time. It was time to look inside myself and find other ways, to look toward my teaching, encouraging younger generations that were dealing with this really drastic change in their lives.
So, when the opportunity to make a solo record presented itself, I thought: I missed playing with my friends. I missed being creating with other people. That’s what music is all about to me. I’m not going to replace that; I’m not going to make a record where I play where I play everything. I’m only going to make a record where I am only being myself; I’m only playing my tenor.
I wanted that element of missing the other sounds; missing their perspectives to be present, too!
Everything was improvised. I treated it like every other recording, in two sessions where I recorded all of the music. I wasn’t really attached to any song in particular. Instead I really just wanted to play.
I then listened to it afterwards and I then picked a couple of the presentations that appealed to me. There were a couple of songs that I play on the record that I had written before that are going to be released on a couple of my next records,
Listening back to it, I’m really happy with how it came out. I recorded it in my closet; I created a little booth during the lockdown. I hope to do it again. It’s part of the creation that I really appreciate; the idea of improvising and listening, and imagining what else could be there.
It’s like when you practice; often you want to imagine that you’re playing alongside that ride cymbal. You want to feel like “I’m leaving a space in the room. I’m by myself but I’m leaving space for the piano player or where the bass might go”. It never stops.
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“It’s like when you practice; often you want to imagine that you’re playing alongside that ride cymbal. You want to feel like “I’m leaving a space in the room. I’m by myself but I’m leaving space for the piano player or where the bass might go”. It never stops”
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WAS THIS ALBUM RIGHT AFTER YOUR DOUBLE ALBUM RECORDED AT THE BLUE WHALE?
No. My double album ‘Serenading the Future’ was recorded in the studio, with one track on it from a live performance at bluewhale. Then there was also the record I did on Fresh Sound Records (Sweet Stuff) with Josh Johnson that has a few standards that we arranged together and played. He is one of my best friends and favorite musicians. It was just so beautiful to be in the studio and play together with him. We played for weeks with bassist Jonathan Richards and drummer Martin Dillard at a place called Sassafrass. We played there every week for a year; it was a great opportunity to play.
That record came out, and then the solo record.
THE SAXOPHONE HAS A TREMENDOUS AND INTIMIDATING HISTORY BEHIND IT. I AM STILL PRACTICING LESTER YOUNG AND WARDELL GREY SOLOS. I’M SURE YOUR STUDENTS SAY, “I WANT TO BE LIKE JOHN COLTRANE OR MICHAEL BRECKER”. AS A PROFESSIONAL, HOW DO YOU BREAK FREE AND SAY “I HAVE TO BE ME, WHATEVER THAT SOUNDS LIKE”?
That’s an important question.
First, I don’t think there’s anything to break free from. That heritage is something that I’m very proud to be part of. It’s a conceptual thing; I’ve always wanted it to be a part of me.
It’s like my grandfather; everything I’ve learned from him is always in the music.
I can’t be anybody else but me, but that “me” is informed by people like Wardell Grey, Coleman Hawkins, Eddie “Lockjaw” Davis…saxophone players that I wish more people were talking about, because that is the heritage of this music.
It’s interesting; I think that now you see more of an awareness of the artists who really pioneered the music.
When I came to the States for the first time, I went to Berklee College of Music for their summer program. It was right after high school, and I get off the plane, and I was shocked at how many people knew the great Michael Brecker, for example, but when I’d ask them about Coleman Hawkins, I’d get “who?”.
And if you could have asked the incredible Michael Brecker, he would tell you “Why are you listening to me? You should be listening to those guys!” I never met him, but everyone I know that did told me how kind he was and respectful of his heritage.
That exploration for me is never ending; there’s always more to learn from those guys.
I do encourage my students to find their own way to associate with that, there own way of “where can I find myself in that?”
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“It’s like my grandfather; everything I’ve learned from him is always in the music”
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THAT IS YOUR MOST RECENT ALBUM. HOW DID YOU USE THAT MENTALITY FOR IT?
That’s exactly what I have done with my recent project of John Coltrane music.
I feel so many people have paid tribute to that great music, and so many times it falls into the category of “blowing over” it, or “stretching over” it, which can go on for a lifetime.
When I did that project, I really wanted to commit to his spiritual side. It was a lot of what he was talking and thinking about.
He talked a lot about how he wanted to be a force for good. It wasn’t a kind of trance, but he wanted to touch people and have this feeling transfer to the people who were listening to him. To me that is profound.
People don’t talk about that factor of his. They want to talk about “Giant Steps” and the technicalities of ***it, but he was really going for something, looking for a scale or key that would heal a friend that was sick. That is what worth paying tribute to and something worth learning from.
Obviously, I’m not expecting to find a key or scale that will heal sick friends, but I hope that by thinking about it I can channel music and do something good with it.
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“I can’t be anybody else but me, but that “me” is informed by people like Wardell Grey, Coleman Hawkins, Eddie “Lockjaw” Davis…saxophone players that I wish more people were talking about, because that is the heritage of this music”
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WHAT BOOKS HAVE YOU READ THAT HAVE INSPIRED YOU THIS WAY, AND HOPE OTHERS WOULD READ?
We could sit here for days. (laughs)
It is hard to think of three, so let’s just start and see how we go…
Man’s Search For Meaning Viktor Frankl
Doing Nothing by Steven Harrison. Great and interesting.
The Tao Te Ching was fascinating, beautiful, profound and minimal.
There’s a book that sparked my Coltrane album, called Coltrane on Coltrane, which is all of these interviews, writings and quotes.
100 Years of Solitude by Marquez, The Plague by Camus! (laughs) So many books!
BEING JEWISH, THE NAME “ISRAEL” MEANS “TO WRESTLE”, SO DO YOU THINK YOUR JEWISH AND ISRAELI HERITAGE IS PART OF YOUR BEING A SEARCHER AND LISTENER?
I’m sure that my heritage and history on this earth has taken part of my musical journey. I feel very connected to my family and history. My grandfather’s entire family was murdered in Poland; my ***mother’s mother had to flee Iraq as there was a certain holocaust going on there. Nine brothers and sisters all moved to Israel together. When I play, even tonight, I’m going to think about them.
It’s part of my journey. In general, it’s a process of identity, where you find yourself in the music. It’s like a mirror.
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“It’s part of my journey…it’s a process of identity, where you find yourself in the music. It’s like a mirror”
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IT KEEPS YOUR LIFE IN PERSPECTIVE. I’M READING THE BOOKS OF SAMUEL, KINGS AND CHRONICLES, AND YOU REALIZE LIFE IS ALWAYS TERRIBLE? WHO’D WANT TO LIVE DURING THAT TIME?!?
You’re right. Every generation sits there and says “What just happened? It’s not the way it used to be.”
But we do have a responsibility in our own lifetimes to do everything that we can to lift up, encourage, enrich and support wherever we can.
LIKE IT WAS SAID OF KING DAVID, “HE SERVED HIS GENERATION, AND HE DIED”
TELL ME WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, YOU WOULD PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM
I’m going to go into deficit spending, as there are a lot I want to see! (laughs)
In the spirit of this new record I’m releasing, I’d love to have seen John Coltrane. Any period, I’ll take it!
Lil Harden. He used to be Louis Armstrong’s wife. She was an incredible composer and piano player. A lot of people say “Lil Armstrong” but actually she was Lil Harden, an incredible musician before and after her time with Louis. I would be fascinated to listen to her and to meet her and see what things looked like then.
WHEN YOU WATCH A SAX PLAYER, WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR, AND WHAT’S YOUR PET PEEVE?
I try not to have a pet peeve. I try to find the things that inspire to me and sound beautiful to me.
There’s something to learn from everybody. I try to tell this to my students, that when I listen to them, I find things that inspire me.
Sound is really big for me. That sound, that tone that someone has , is the first thing that strikes me, and one of the first things that I worked on and have worked on for years.
It’s like an onion; you have to peel the layers to get to the core, and that’s what tone is all about.
GOD HAS NEVER MADE A REPLACEMENT FOR LONG TONES
And you wish there were! I know a lot of people like that. But what can you do?
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Family, friends, friendships. Seeing people overcoming challenges. Nature
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“There’s something to learn from everybody. I try to tell this to my students, that when I listen to them, I find things that inspire me”
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WHAT PERSON IN HISTORY WOULD YOU LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
I feel like a sinner saying only one name!
I would have liked to have spent much more time with my great-grandmothers. They both lived such lives; they were able to bring their families together literally out of ashes. One escaped the holocaust in Poland and the other side from Iraq.
I feel that life for women back in that time was so challenging. My grandmother passed away a couple of years ago. She told me that she loved to read and she loved math, but the books were for only the boys to use. IF there was one sister that was studying (and she wasn’t the elder so she couldn’t do it) , she used to sneak in late at night and turn on the oil lamp so she could read through and learn just a little more.
To me, that is inspiring, profound and encouraging. Also, it’s humbling and educating for me to know that we still have a lot of work to do, and that works starts now.
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS?
To continue to explore and develop as a listener. To find more ways to use my ability to listen to contribute, help and encourage both artistically and beyond music. To be more involved in and supportive. To have a family and raise kids. At 31, there are still many things that I hope to achieve.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY WHEN THEY PUT YOU IN THE PINE BOX?
I hope they’ll be happy. I hope they won’t be too sad. I hope I won’t be too sad! (laughs)
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“my mother’s mother had to flee Iraq as there was a certain holocaust going on there. Nine brothers and sisters all moved to Israel together. When I play, even tonight, I’m going to think about them”
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WHEN DANIEL ROTEM PLAYS, OR WHEN HE TEACHES, HE’S ALWAYS LISTENING. TO HIS STUDENTS, TO HIS FAMILY, TO THE VOICES OF THE PAST. WHO ARE YOU LISTENING TO? AS THE GREAT THEOLOGIAN MARTIN LLOYD-JONES ONCE SAID, “DON’T LISTEN TO YOURSELF; TALK TO YOURSELF”. WHERE DO THE VOICES THAT YOU TALK TO YOURSELF COME FROM? HOPEFULLY, LIKE ROTEM, FROM VOICES OF WISDOM.
ROTEM’S HERITAGE COMES FROM WANDERING IN THE DESERT, STRUGGLING WITH GOD, AND LOOKING FOR THE RIVER TO CROSS IN ORDER TO REACH THE PROMISED LAND. THIS META-NARRATIVE IS ONE THAT CAUSES US TO WANT TO LEARN, AS WE ALL HAVE RIVERS TO CROSS UNTIL WE CROSS OUR OWN JORDANS.
CHECK OUT ROTEM’S LATEST TWO RELEASES AND FOLLOW HIS OWN PILGRIMAGE INTO THE MUSICAL LAND OF MILK AND HONEY.