ONE THING THAT HAS ALWAYS DISTINGUISHED JAZZ IS ITS RHYTHM.
THAT UNIQUE SENSE OF SWING HAS BEEN DISPLAYED AND DELIVERED IN A WIDE VARIETY OF WAYS SINCE THE EARLY DAYS, FROM A STIFF TWO BEAT TO EIGHT TO THE BAR, HARD HITTING THE SOUL OF HARD BOP AND ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE ROCK BEATS OF FUSION.
NIK BAERTSCH HAS CREATED HIS OWN UNIQUE PULSE FOR JAZZ, AS WELL AS FOR LIFE.
LEADER OF GROUPS LIKE RONIN AND MOBILE, BAERTSCH HAS CREATED A RELENTLESS DEEP RIVULET Of “ZEN FUNK” THAT HAS CAUGHT ON IN HIS NATIVE COUNTRY OF SWITZERLAND, WHERE HE’S PEFORMED IN HIS OWN NIGHTCLUB.
BAERTSCH HAS ALSO RELEASED SOME SOLO PIANO MUSIC WHICH IS AS UNIQUE AS HIS OWN FINGERPRINTS, WITH SOUNDS THAT ARE ALLURING TO THE MIND, EARS AND FEET.
AND IF YOU HAVEN”T SEEN HIS BANDS IN CONCERT, THEN YOU’VE ALSO MISSED A VISUAL TREAT, AS BAERTSCH CREATES MOODS WITH LIGHTS AND AND SPACES THAT MAKE HIS IN PERSON PERFORMANCES A TRUE WHOLISTIC EXPERIENCE.
WE RECENTLY HAD A ZOOM INTERVIEW WITH BAERTSCH, WHO HAS ALSO RECENTLY PUBLISHED AN INTRIGUING BOOK (LISTENING-MUSIC MOVEMENT MIND) THAT IS A KIND OF PRIMER FOR LATCHING ON TO THE RHYTHMS OF LIFE.
DO YOU STILL OWN A NIGHTCLUB?
Yes, it’s a music club. We have concerts: jazz, world, electronic stuff. It’s completely free standing, able to seat
HOW DID YOU ADAPT ANDS SURVIVE THE LOCKDOWN? IT MUST HAVE BEEN TOUGH TIMES.
On one hand that was true. We had to close the club as well as our weekly Monday series with my working band. We’ve been doing it for 15 years, which helps to have kept the band alive, working to train, play and keep the community together.
We had to close, and we’re still closed. But the international community has been streaming about two years before the pandemic broke out, so we just kept going. We’ve been playing every Monday since the beginning of the pandemic. We’ve been rehearsing in a safe space.
For myself, this was one of the reasons I did this solo recording for Manfred Eicher at ECM. It has been in the air for years, but I didn’t want to compete with my own band with the records and tours. During this time, I actually wrote a book about my experiences about the physical context of performing and making music with a healthy body and mind set. It also includes the history of my ideas with the musical group. I wrote it with my wife over the course of a year, coming out in the US in July. The book is called, in relation to the record, Listening, Music, Movement and Mind, so this time for me was very productive.
WHEN DO YOU THINK YOU’LL OPEN UP THE CLUB AND GET BACK TO “NORMAL”?
Switzerland never had a total lockdown, and you were always allowed to go out, but concerts were allowed for about 50 people, and if the club is small, you could only bring in 1/3 of the people, and the bar should be closed. For my small club, this doesn’t work yet, financially.
For the mid sized and bigger clubs, and supported art venues, they are starting to go on again, but with a maximum of 50 people.
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“With the band, there is freedom in the structure; in my solo work there is freedom with the structure”
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BEING BOTH A MUSICIAN AND A CLUB OWNER, DO YOU HAVE A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE OF THIS WHOLE LOCKDOWN? IS THIS PART OF YOUR “WHOLISTIC” APPROACH TO MUSIC?
Yes. I learn a lot by doing; I made a lot of mistakes, losing money with bookings, so I know what it means to not only run a club but also to create a good setting by being a good host, working together with the artist.
But I also know that, as an artist, when I’m dealing with a promoter or club owner, we’re sitting in the same boat. We need support one another, to make the gig known; we need to create a community and a good vibe.
I’ve learned that with big partners like ECM, but I’ve also have a little label that supports young musicians; we run a little festival. I want to learn that wholistic approach in supporting the community, but also how the business works both socially and financially.
WHAT’S THE BEST ADVICE YOU’VE RECEIVED AS A CLUB OWNER?
I had a very important experience when I was in a club in the countryside, as a young musician. There was a very unique character that ran the club. He was important for the whole region, as there was no other cultural institution for the whole people and he told me, “You need to make the club for the whole community. It needs to resonate in the community.”
That’s the reason why I did my club. It was for myself, but also for the whole community as a place where they can not only do the gig, but meet and exchange ideas.
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“You need to make the club for the whole community. It needs to resonate in the community.”
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YOUR CONCERTS HAVE VERY VISUAL ASPECT WITH LIGHTING, ETC. IS THIS ALSO PART OF YOUR WHOLISTIC APPROACH TO MUSIC? WAS THERE A TEMPLATE FOR THIS?
For me, from the very beginning it was important that the concert is much more than ****just listening to music. It’s a contact between the audience and the band in a certain space.
We all want to be in that moment in that space and nowhere else. This means creating a good atmosphere, offering an essential setup that allows people to really dive into the music933. For me, the visual aspect was never a “show”; it was always involved in giving the music a sense of more space to dive into.
This is a wholistic approach also, that links into a good show that is not only entertaining, but you can also dive deeper into the music and create a stronger experience.
DO YOU DO THE VISUALS DIFFERENTLY IF THE GROUP IS RONIN OR MOBILE, OR IF YOU DO A SOLO PERFORMANCE?
Yes, we have with Mobile the light designer as an integral part of the band. We even do special kinds of music rituals that sometimes take hours or days. The lights are set up in a special way, making them very important. Very often we play in the center and people are sitting around us, structuring the whole performance in a way that is more open and minimalistic in some parts, yet dense and dramatic in other parts.
When I play solo, it depends where I play, but I also care about the lighting, and I had a special project with a visual artist that premiered in 2009. The piano was in a tank of water in front of a screen that the light could really play with the music in a kind of special sense. It was an amazing experience.
DO YOU WORRY MIGHT TAKE AWAY OR DISTRACT FROM THE APPRECIATION OF THE ACTUAL MUSIC, OR DO YOU BELIEVE IT ALWAYS ENHANCES IT?
That depends on the setting. We know shows that have a different focus on the different media, but for me the music is clearly the main focus. I want to create a setup that actually helps people to enjoy the music and help be “in” the music. Not so much as an audience kind, away from the stage, but having a spatial feeling which often has to do the light being not too bright, so you feel that you are actually part of the space as the audience.
The music is clearly the main focus, but as a player I also want to have a sensual atmosphere.
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“It is an invitation kind of force them to enjoy art. It invites them and even seduces them to enjoy the art”
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THE TYPE OF LIGHTING YOU USE ALSO MAKES FOR THE AUDIENCE TO BE LESS APT TO TALK AND MAKE EXTRANEOUS/DISTRACTING NOISES DURING THE CONCERT
Yes, I help them.
It is an invitation kind of force them to enjoy art. It invites them and even seduces them to enjoy the art.
DO YOU USE A DIFFERENT MUSICAL TEMPLATE FOR YOUR SOLO WORK (SUCH AS ON YOUR RECENT RELEASE ENTENDRE) AS OPPOSED TO YOUR BAND WORKS?1250
The basic concept with this modular idea is finally that you have a piece with a clear idea, a clear concept with bass lines and drum beats written out, but then the bands are given a lot of freedom.
As a solo player, I of course have even more freedom and go wherever I want. On the record, for the first piece (Module 58_12) , I only kind of quote the main motifs; I didn’t plan to go into the twelfth module while playing “Module 58” , it just happened in the studio. It was very improvised at the moment.
But I am still relating to the basic motifs.
With the band, there is freedom in the structure; in my solo work there is freedom with the structure.
YOUR RONIN BAND IS TRULY UNIQUE IN BOTH INSTRUMENTATION AND DELIVERY. WHEN YOU GOT YOUR BAND RONIN FIRST TOGETHER, DID YOU FIRST GET TOGETHER AS FRIENDS, OR DID YOU LOOK FOR MUSICIANS TO FIT YOUR VISION?
There is a really beautiful coincidence. Our drummer Kasper Rast , who is very amazing and also very modest, has had a huge experience with jazz drumming and also with modern group music.
I met him when we were kids; we were on the same football team and the same band, joining the same week! Since then we worked together, had bands together and have never separated. We’ve stayed partners, and he’s still the drummer of Ronin. He’s a really core axis in the band.
Three things are important in the band. The musical partner must be nearby. First, we want to work every week, so we needed interested people to be around locally, so they can come within 1-2 hours for rehearsals and weekly sessions.
Second, they must fit in socially to the team, so that we have a good vibe, and also so that we can criticize each other and have an adult/inspiring relationship, not only in the whole band but bilaterally between us.
The third is that the person should understand aesthetically what we do. So, usually we need people with high musical skills in jazz and reading in group music, but not to show that on the surface; it is to serve the band. This attitude is rare in the sense that many good players want to show that they are good players, which is understandable and can lead to very inspiring results, but in our case the group organism is the main goal.
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“we need people with high musical skills in jazz and reading in group music, but not to show that on the surface; it is to serve the band”
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YOU NEED TEAMATES THAT ARE, WHAT OUR CHURCH CALLS “FAT”: FAITHFUL, AVAILABLE AND TEACHABLE
Yes. You can have the best player, but if he or she isn’t around you can’t work together.
AS A BAND LEADER, WHEN YOU WATCH ANOTHER BAND PERFORM, WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR?
I have found that, over the years, when I enjoy a band, it is very direct and I want to dance. But, when I start to analyze, I check the phrasing, the way they shape things together. Secondly, I check the range of dynamics of their playing together. Third, I check the sounds; how they vibrate and resonate together and organize their instrumentation. Fourth, I check the dramaturgy, which means the way something is developed in an art context, mainly in theatre and film -how they come from A to B, to the next song and the whole set. These four principles, phrasing, dynamics, sound and dramaturgy, can always give me a good kind of feedback. Where the band stands-what do they do socially and musically?
IT IS VERY RARE TO HAVE A BASS SAXOPHONE IN A BAND. TO NOT ONLY HEAR BUT FEEL THAT INSTRUMENT IS A TRUE EXPERIENCE IN CONCERT. WAS THE SELECTION OF THAT INSTRUMENT YOUR IDEA, OR OF SHA’S? IT TAKES IMPRESSIVE CHOPS TO MASTER A BASS SAX!
Over the years, Sha and I have worked a lot together. As a teenager, he was already interested in our music. What I love is the bass saxophone reach in terms of the coloring and shadowing, how it mixes with the other sounds. I’m very much into these warmer sounds, which is why we go higher with the percussion.
Sha also plays a very good alto sax, but I like the bass clarinet and bass saxophone, with their shapes, and especially when Sha is slapping when doubling the bass lines. It’s very inspiring and can lead to some unheard results.
It was there from the beginning. He was an ideal partner, and he played both instruments from the beginning. It was difficult to find a guy like that.
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“when Sha is slapping when doubling the bass lines, it’s very inspiring and can lead to some unheard results”
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WITH THIS BAND AND ITS REPETITIVE PULSATIONS, HOW MUCH ROOM IS THERE FOR ACTUAL IMPROVISATIONS?
There is actually a lot, but we don’t show it so obviously. It was our idea that when you are ***listening you can’t tell if it’s composed, arranged or improvised. We do a lot with ghost note nets, where these ghost notes inspire each other, doing a lot of blendings. We do a lot with giving the player a lot of freedom, moving like an animal in the woods. Suddenly you can’t see him anymore because he’s part of the picture. We have a lot of strategies that show improvisation so directly as a solo, but its part of the procession.
Kaspar, the drummer, was once asked “Is this still ‘jazz’? Where does it belong? What is its influence? Where is the freedom in the music?” Kaspar replied “This is more jazz than anything else, because I have so much freedom as a drummer even though I have no drum solo”.
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“(My drummer) Kaspar replied, ‘This is more jazz than anything else, because I have so much freedom as a drummer even though I have no drum solo'”
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I’M ENJOYING YOUR SWISS CLARITY OF THOUGHT AND LOGIC IN EXPLANATION
That’s our job (laughs)
DO AMERICAN AUDIENCES RESPOND DIFFERENTLY THAN EUROPEAN AUDIENCES TO YOUR MUSIC?
Yeah. I had one major difference that is really cool.
When we were touring in the US, there were a lot of people asking us on the plane “Are you a band?” We had a high appreciation as a band in the States. In Europe, mainly I am in the focus, so there is a different picture of what the band is. That has to do with a lot of traditions, especially on the continent.
I appreciate that a lot, and as a band it was a good experience, as we are a working band. That’s why we have a band name, even though I’m the leader and composer and am financing and organizing everything. It’s a working band.
This kind of exchange with the audience we felt during the shows, but also after when we had talks with them, a lot of people understand the mechanisms in a band that you have in every town. Bands become quite known as a group, and I find that quite inspiring.
On the other hand, it is very different in the US than in Europe. In Europe there are thousands of parts and languages, so there are sometime bizarre issues between different countries.
But in the US, when we came here from Switzerland, where it’s not a huge musical country, but the Americans respected us, coming from there, so they’d come to the gig just to check us out.
We were received them as being something very fresh, open and inspiring. It was a good experience
YOU DIDN’T HAVE TO PLAY “THE GREAT ULRICH ZWINGLI SONGBOOK”?
Actually, he was a very good musician and composer. That is the tragedy of my town; he actually kicked out all of the Catholic-background ceremonies and so on, focusing on the word of God. But he was an amazing musician and played several instruments. He the lute, organ and was also a good singer.
I’ve never understood why this religious belief somehow led to such an ascetic type of church service
YOUR OWN MUSICAL INFLUENCES HAVE BEEN VERY “CATHOLIC” IN THE WIDE RANGING SENSE OF THE WORD. YOU LISTEN TO BARTOK, JAPANESE AND GREEK MUSIC. THIS GETS DOWN TO YOUR WHOLISTIC APPROACH AGAIN.
WHAT DID YOU FIND IN THE GREEK MUSIC TO GUIDE YOU IN YOUR OWN MUSICAL LANGUAGE?
I had a very intense experience in Greece. One time I was in the big amphitheatre in Epidaros, where back in ancient times you also had a very wholistic approach to healing with the arts.
I was at a concert there, sitting and listening to this brass band. They were playing popular music in these odd meters, and the whole audience was clapping along to them perfectly. We find that a lot in Greek and Romanian music, this kind of odd meters in popular song. It inspired me; I like it very much.
I find it in Bartok’s and Stravinsky’s music also. There it is more transformed into composed music, but Greeks have it in a more urban kind of spirit. But in Stravinsky’s case you have it in ballet, with a very sensual and biokinetic aspect to the music.
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“For him, walls were a border, but for me it was a playground”
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HOW DID YOU GET THIS OPEN VIEW OF THINGS? WAS IT SOMETHING FROM YOUR PARENTS? ?
There was a very important momentum of creativity. My parents are into individual arts, fashion, graphic design and architecture; it was a very open house. We listened to all forms of music, no real ideology.
It was not a mainly musical house, but it was a very creative house. For example, I had a phase with comic books and liking jungle animals a lot. She encouraged me to paint the walls with fantasy animals, while she brought in real trees, even hanging fruit around!
I then had a school friend who came home with me, and when he saw my room he said “That’s impossible at my house. We have painted walls and are not allowed to touch them.”
For him, walls were a border, but for me it was a playground.
Moments like this happened a lot. My mother used to tell me “Go check it out yourself”.
I had this same experience with music. I liked rhythms a lot and was drumming on the table and all sorts of things, so she looked for a private drum teacher, because it was not possible to get ***one at school back then. They said that drums weren’t an instrument for kids! Luckily that has changed.
I learned drums first from an American teacher, a very funny guy named Sal Cali. He taught me drumming, and a year later I saw a guy play boogie woogie on the piano. I literally ran home to tell my mother that I heard this music and wanted to learn it.
She had to look around for a teacher, because at that time (back in the 1970s) we only had classical music teachers in school. She found me someone who was very encouraging; he taught me composing, blues and boogie woogie as well as introducing me to standards, Chick Corea, Brazilian music and eventually to Gershwin and Bartok.
As a teenager I came upon an Old School Russian teacher who introduced me to the whole classical background, and also had a big respect for jazz. This was because during WWII he would listen to American radio with Duke Ellington and Count Basie. He really admired them.
I was lucky to find these people; they gave my creativity no borders or boundaries, but they encouraged me into a general wholistic approach.
AT THE RISK OF SOUNDING LIKE A SWISS CALVINIST, I WOULD SAY THAT YOUR PATH SEEMS PRE-DESTINED!
(laughs) Yes, and we Swiss have also influenced your Constitution.
For example, “the pursuit of happiness” comes from a Calvinist background and the Swiss/French philosopher Jean Jacque Lamark, who was a very influential man.
Actually, President Obama brought that back onto the table when they were talking about the background/development of the Constitution.
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“(The Constitution’s) pursuit of happiness” comes from a Calvinist background and the Swiss/French philosopher Jean Jacque Lamark, who was a very influential man”
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THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WAS ACTUALLY CALLED “THE PRESBYTERIAN REVOLUTION” TO KING GEORGE III
WITH THAT IN MIND, TELL ME AT LEAST THREE BOOKS THAT HAVE INFLUENCED YOU AND YOU RECOMMEND
The first would be Zen Mind, Beginners’s Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. It’s a very simple and basic book about meditation; it’s very inspiring for applying your concentration into everything.
A very important book for me is The Age of Empathy by the Dutch scientist Frans de Waal, who is now in the US. He is researching about apes and the relationship to human behavior. In this book you learn that cooperation and empathy working together is as important to evolution as competition, mutation and things like that. All of his books are very inspiring for community-oriented people.
The third book that I find very inspiring is called (In English) Samurai, or the The Dignity of Failure. It’s about the warriors in Japan, how the great ones have a huge history of failure. It’s a whole different kind of outlook (dramatucci) than in the West where there are heroic stories of men that fight and find a glorious victory.
This book is more of a mindset and belief system that through failure you can be still be inspired, which is a different narrative than in the West.
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“This book is more of a mindset and belief system that through failure you can be still be inspired, which is a different narrative than in the West.”
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WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
Lennie Tristano.
I think that in the early 1950s, Lennie Tristano was very far ahead of everyone else in the polymetric and polyrhythmic style of playing. He was already doing overdubbing in recording, and having an idea of what musicianship and dedication means.
He was talking about delicate issues of bringing cultural background into music. He was a very inspiring pianist with a very inspiring mind and a directly inspiring musician. I think his “Turkish Mambo” is a very visionary piece. Just the way that it is made; imagine that for its time!
He’s very underrated in today’s period. I listen to his music all of the time.
IT’S FUNNY THAT YOU SAY THAT, AS I BELIEVE THAT HIS SAXIST WARNE MARSH WAS THE LAST ORIGINAL TENOR SAX PLAYER.
Absolutely. Sha, our reed player, relates a lot to the background from him, also in terms of sound. It’s a mix of “hot” and “cool” which is very inspiring.
WHO FROM WORLD HISTORY, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SIT WITH FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS/HER BRAIN?
Stravinsky, of course. He was very interesting, funny and ironic. I think we would laugh a lot all night. (laughs)
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
I think that is totally up to the people.
This is why my pieces are called “Modules”. Every person has their own poetic and emotional background. There a very important freedom in every person, which is why I’m so happy to be musically connected to several people. I like when it someone brings out from him or herself
It depends on what happens after death; I might not hear it! (laughs)
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“Every person has their own poetic and emotional background. There a very important freedom in every person, which is why I’m so happy to be musically connected to several people”
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WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Music and family
My wife and three girls are very much in contact. She helped me write a book.
Music is home. I’m a citizen of Planet Music. That’s even more important to Greece or Switzerland.
That is how you and I met, through Planet Music.
WHAT IS YOUR NEXT GOAL?
The next goal is to bring bands back on the road.
This was the longest break of time in my career so far of not being with a band on the road. It’s my responsibility as band leader to get us back there.
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“I’m a citizen of Planet Music”
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BECAUSE WE HUMANS ARE WARM BLOODED, WE ALL HAVE A PULSE, AN INTERNAL GOD-GIVEN RHYTHM. NIK BAERTSCH CELEBRATES THAT INHERENT BEAT, EMPHASIZING IT IN HIS MUSIC, HIS WRITING AND IN HIS ABILITY TO DETECT THE BEAT IN ALL OF NATURE AND THE SUPERNATURAL AROUND HIM. CHECK OUT HIS MUSIC, HIS BOOK AND HIS OUTLOOK ON HOW TO FIND THE EXOTIC IN THE MOST SIMPLE SOUNDS OF LIFE.