GIVE A GLIMPSE TO THE SONG TITLES THAT YOU LISTEN TO. WHAT ARE THE TOPICS. ODD ARE IT’S EITHER ABOUT 1) “LOVE 2) THE LACK OF “LOVE” 3) BROKEN RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE 4) SOCIETY/SOCIAL PROBLEMS OR ISSUES.
ANY SONGS ABOUT DIET, VEGETABLES AND FRUIT DIETS? HOW ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WHAT YOU EAT AND YOUR SPIRITUAL GROWTH?
WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF TIVON PENNICOTT!
KNOWN FOR HIS ROLES AS THE SAXIST FOR THE LIKES OF ESPERANZA SPALDING, JON BATISTE, BUT MOST OF ALL FOR HIS LONG-TIME RELATIONSHIP WITH GREGORY PORTER, TIVON PENNICOTT HAS BRANCHED OUT INTO A SOLO CAREER THIS PAST YEAR.
HIS DEBUT SOLO ALBUM, SPIRIT GARDEN, IS A SWINGING AND MATURE AFFAIR, WITH EACH SONG CONTAINING A HOLISTIC CONNECTION BETWEEN A LIFE DEVOTED TO GOD AND ONE FOCUSED ON MAINTAINING PHYSICAL HEALTH.
FEW PEOPLE, LET ALONE ARTISTS, SEE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR DIET, WORDS, ACTIONS AND SPIRIT. GROWING UP IN THE CHURCH, PENNICOTT HAS LEARNED MUCH ABOUT WHAT COMES INTO OUR BODIES P HSYICALL AS WELL AS WHAT COMES OUT SPIRITUALLY.
WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO MR. PENNICOTT ABOUT HIS CAREER, ALBUM AND BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL DIET.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF WITH THIS LOCKDOWN?
I’ve been through a lot, actually.
I got a fever while I was on tour in Germany with Gregory (Porter). I got through in Germany. When the lockdown started, it was like whatever sickness I had got worse and worse. I’ve never been that sick before. It must have been COVID.
That experience taught me a lot about myself, because I was by myself the whole time. It was crazy.
*I felt like I should take this time and be productive, just like in the concepts of my album; staying on track.
IT’S IRONIC-WHEN YOU’RE TOO BUSY YOU’D GIVE ANYTHING FOR SOME SPARE TIME, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THE “SPARE TIME” BECAUSE OF ILLNESS, YOU CAN’T USE IT PROPERLY AND IT’S FRUSTRATING
Exactly. So, it just gave me a perspective of the blessing of just being healthy, because at that moment I was just feeling so tired that I couldn’t do anything. It was like waking up, gasping for air, and it put to the point where you’ve never thought what’s going to happen to you if it gets worse, but now you do.
It just puts you in a perspective of “Let’s do something special. Let’s be great and help others” to put a better use to my time.
JUDGING BY THE SONG TITLES ON YOUR ALBUM AND YOUR ATTITUDE, IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU GREW UP IN THE CHURCH.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN MUSICALLY THERE?
My church growing up was very unique. It was Jamaican in heritage, and because they were Jamaican they gravitated to this white Southern gospel vibe. The hymns in Jamaica are the same hymns that are sung in the white South.
So, it’s interesting the way that I grew up, because typically people think that I grew up in a black church, so I have a little bit different of a perspective. I’ve got this country-gospel side in me while growing up, alongside this Jamaican heritage and culture of freedom, dancing and freedom. All of that r rolled up into one unique output for me both creatively and musically
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“Music right now is accentuating the dark, so I’m putting optimism out there”
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HOW DID THE CHURCH MAKE YOU THE MAN THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
The core concepts. I’ve been blessed to have a family that instilled certain things into my mind about life early on: how to treat others as well as to treat my own body in a certain way. 500
That was there from the beginning. I’ve taken it to the next level. I now tell my parents to drink celery juice, and they’re like “What?!?”
I’ve learned so much about my body and how that is connected with how you treat others.
WHAT MADE YOU COME TO THE REALIZATION ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FAITH, EATING AND MUSIC?
I had grown up always struggling with eczema, and it got very, very bad when I went on tour with Gregory Porter in 2017-18. I’ve been trying everything for a cure my whole life.
At the time, I wasn’t living like a “bad” human, but I wasn’t living up to the standards I had grown up in.
It was like torture. I had to wear leggings and other things so I wouldn’t scratch my skin and rip it off. It was that bad.
So the first thing I did was change where I lived, and after desperately searching for other options besides the topical ointments and all that stuff, because they never worked and aren’t good for you. So, I figured if I’m changing the way that I am, I might as well change what I put inside my body.
I discovered Medical Medium which told about celery juice reducing eczema, psoriasis and even anxiety. He was talking about how his spirit would tell others how to help others with chronic illnesses.
I paused on that part (laughs), but I saw all of these testimonials of it working, and I was desperate to try something.
I tried it out, and things got better. My skin got better, my mood got better, the way that I felt physically, emotionally and spiritually…it was almost like a gimmick! Celery juice! For real?!? It was happening!
YOU SAID YOU WERE “MOVING WRONG”. WHAT WERE YOU DOING?
On the outside looking in, no one would know. I knew for myself, as the small decisions I would make would not be good. “Am I going to sit here and scroll through Facebook for the next 30 minutes, or am I going to create something special for someone?” It was all of these small decisions on how I spend my time.
When on tour, it’s like “Am I going to go to this spot and eat a slice of pizza, or am I going to discover something better?”
YOUR UPBRINGING REMINDS ME OF A BELIZIAN FRIEND OF MINE WHO FINDS IT FUNNY THAT HE’S LABELED AS AN “AFRICAN-AMERICAN”. DO YOU COME ACROSS THE SAME TYPE OF MISSED STEREOTYPES SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU’RE BLACK?
I honestly don’t put much energy towards that-African American, Black…as long as I’m not disrespected one on one, I’m not offended by any connotations.
It’s interesting, though, because I grew up in the South. I grew up around people being racists, but I didn’t realize that they were being racists.
As a three year old, I would have an old southern white nanny and she was so loving and giving as she cared for me. But her husband would say things like “Come here, boy” or when the lights were out he’d go “I can’t find you; smile!” Things that a lot of people would get offended by, and I understand that today. Don’t say certain things, because the connotation is just too bad. But the overall feeling was that they gave me this love, but saying these things that I was ignorant about. I had to learn later what certain things meant.
It all comes down to how you treat people; what is the foundation of your heart?
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“’Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control’. These are the things that are my standard of what to remember going through my life. These are the standards in which to live”
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YOUR CAREER STARTED WITH A GIG WITH KENNY BURRELL. HOW DID IT COME TO PLACE? WAS THAT YOUR BAPTISM?
Yes, it was.
I was going to the University of Miami. In the summer I was thinking that after I graduated I could move to LA. My friends, transferred from Miami to UCLA, so I felt I’ll come through and check out the scene. I came for a bout two months, while Kenny Burrell was teaching at UCLA, and I was sitting in one of his classes. I figured I’d just bring my horn and play.
He just started playing a blues and I joined him. He kind of stopped and said “Who are you? Where are you from? Do you go to school here? What’s going on?”
He told me to stay after the class, and he said “Hey, I’m playing four nights at Catalina’s Jazz Club (this is around 2008). Would you like to play?”
Of course I went, along with four other horns. I was a part of that, which started everything off.
Eventually he started taking some horns off, and I was the only one left playing with him.
Kenny Burrell has a special place in my heart; I’ve come from his school as far as the blues feel, and the respect for Duke Ellington. I dove into his works, and also how Kenny Burrell thinks about standards and the importance of holding up the tradition.
DID HE OR ANYONE ELSE GIVE YOU ADVICE ON MUSIC OR LIFE THAT YOU STILL ADHERE TO?
Kenny Burrell believes the same way as to how to treat others. He’s the perfect role model as far as that is concerned.
Musically, he taught me the importance of the setup of the music. He can put together the perfect set. Like, how a DJ knows what songs to put in what order, he had a knack for what needs to come next.
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“Kenny Burrell believes the same way as to how to treat others. He’s the perfect role model as far as that is concerned”
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WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED BY PLAYING WITH GREGORY PORTER?
I met Gregory Porter when he was a “nobody” (laughs), and now I know him as everything! (laughs hard) He came from the bottom.
What I learned from him is that he didn’t get any recognition until he was in his 40s, and he was singing the same songs since he was 20. For close to 20 years he was singing the same songs, the same way with the same beautiful voice, but it didn’t really click.
So what I learned from him was to just stay the course. Don’t be concerned about who will listen and hear your music and appreciate it; that will come. Just stay the course.
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“what I learned from (Gregory Porter) was to just stay the course. Don’t be concerned about who will listen and hear your music and appreciate it; that will come. Just stay the course”
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HOW ABOUT WHAT YOU GLEANED FROM JON BATISTE?
Batiste is one talented and gifted human being.
From him, I learned to trust the moment; trust the process of the moment.
I tend to micro-manage things, because in my head I know exactly musically what is supposed to come out. I try to convey what is inside my head.
But Batiste has a skeleton of what he knows he wants to happen, but he lets it go.
For example, someone might say to me right now, “My sister is in town. Do you think she could talk to you for ten minutes?” and I’ll say, “well, this is my interview, it’s kind of out in left field, but I might let her talk to me”. But Batiste would say, “OH YEAH! Let’s talk! ” and just move with the flow no matter what it is, and it always ends up coming out perfectly. How did it come together? It’s like magic!
So, I’ve learned from him to kind of trust the moment.
YOU WERE ALSO WITH ESPERANZA SPALDING FOR AWHILE, AND THAT SESSION WAS DIFFERENT.
It sure was. I was with her for a couple of tours.
She is one who is thoroughly studied; she does not leave any stones unturned. She dots her i’s and crosses her t’s. She sees everything through.
In her creative process, if you ask her a question about some aspect of what she’s thinking, she’s already thought about it and will give an answer.
YOUR RECENT ALBUM, SPIRIT GARDEN, IS SIX YEARS AFTER YOUR DEBUT LOVER OF NATURE. WHY THE BIG GAP?
In 2015, I came to a crossroads.
I had to decide if I’m going to go on tour full time with Gregory, or would I stay in New York and continue my own path. I had released my debut in 2014, and in ’15 I was starting to do another album.
But getting acclimated to the touring 1926, and spending my time doing something that I felt was good for me to do with my time, spending it the right way. That was what I should have been doing, but what I wasn’t doing, as I should have had 2-3 more albums in this 6 year gap.
I was doing something else with my time. I was on tour, I was going out and partying; doing the “tour life”. I was definitely growing musically, it’s just that I didn’t have the opportunity to see that growth through documentation.
I feel like now is the time. I have so many ideas, so that my plan now is to release new music every year from here on out.
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“I listen for sound, first of all. A sound is worth 1000 words”
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THIS ALBUM HAS SOME GORGEOUS STRING SUPPORT. HOW DID YOU LEARN THAT TYPE OF ARRANGING?
It was a big step.
I have all of these ideas in my head. The University of Miami taught me a lot technically how harmony works and how to arrange. I didn’t have any specific lessons on it; it was kind of intuitive. I was hearing it in my head and just did it.
I bought an orchestration book, read maybe ten of the 300+ pages of it, and said, “Let me just trust my ears.”
One thing that I’m an extreme nerd at is music theory and harmony and how chords make people feel. Certain chords can resonate with people and have a healing property. I’m pretty intuitive with that.
Putting all of that knowledge together, I felt that this album had to have some healing elements in it. I felt that the texture of strings could activate a lot of cells.
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“Certain chords can resonate with people and have a healing property. I’m pretty intuitive with that”
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THE GENERAL RULE IS THAT MAJOR CHORDS AND MINOR CHORDS HAVE CERTAIN MOODS
There’s a certain conception that major is happy and minor is sad, but it’s really not true. It’s about the relativity in the moment.
THE TITLES OF YOUR SONGS REFLECT A WHOLISTIC APPROACH TO LIFE, WITH TITLE REFERRING TO BIBLE VERSES, FOOD GROUPS AND SPIRITUAL SOJOURNS. ARE THESE ALL DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF YOU?
It was to consciously show different parts of me and keeping with the concept of the Fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22, “Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control”. These are the things that are my standard of what to remember going through my life. These are the standards in which to live.
Then there is also the songs to help me remember to keep my body physically intact as well.
I know that this album is extremely optimistic. It’s like shining a bright light like “everything’s perfect, everything’s good and we’re all going to come together and sing ‘Kumbaya’. But that’s what I wanted to do.
Nobody’s really doing that right now. Music right now is accentuating the dark, so I’m putting optimism out there.
Life is obviously going to give us the pain and suffering. That’s just a part of it. But what I have put out there is something to grab on to when you’re ready to embrace this optimism and treat your body and yourself right.
Fruit is the concept that goes throughout the whole album, along with the concept of healing in terms of who you are and what you put into your body.
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“I know that this album is extremely optimistic. It’s like shining a bright light like “everything’s perfect, everything’s good and we’re all going to come together and sing ‘Kumbaya’. But that’s what I wanted to do”
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AND JESUS ALSO SAYS THAT IT’S NOT WHAT YOU PUT INTO YOUR BODY THAT DEFILES YOU, BUT WHAT COMES OUT IN TERMS OF ANGER AND HATRED. WHAT ARE YOU SAYING FROM YOUR HEART?
Exactly
GIVE ME THREE BOOKS YOU THINK EVERYONE SHOULD READ
First of all, The Bible. I think that everyone should have at least a concept of what it teaches, no matter what you are.
One book that I read a long time ago was The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.
In these times, I think it would be for people to go to that classic 1984 by George Orwell. That’s a good one.
SO, YOU HAVE AN ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE THAT KEEPS YOU GROUNDED, AND AS A CHRISTIAN YOU KNOW THAT HISTORY IS FILLED WITH TROUBLES.
WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
I would have loved to have seen Bob Marley. Unfortunately, their value goes way up when they pass. Bob Marley is my roots. Just to see how he does a set.
WHO IN WORLD HISTORY WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEND AN EVENING AND PICK THEIR BRAIN?
There are so many! I know I’m going to say somebody, and ten minutes later think of someone else, but right now I would say John Coltrane. Just to sit there and talk to him would be amazing.
WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR WHEN YOU LISTEN TO A SAX P LAYER? 2817
I listen for sound, first of all. A sound is worth 1000 words. The tone.
Also, the patience. As a musician, just like speaking we understand words and we understand what people are saying. It’s about how you express yourself .
You can see what saxophone technical abilities are, but then it starts to be “who are you?” . If a saxophonist starts playing, you know if they can take their time to express themselves. It’s more effective for the listener. It actually penetrates the listener’s psyche.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
“This guy’s heart sought after joy and he was always uplifting others”
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“Life is obviously going to give us the pain and suffering. That’s just a part of it. But what I have put out there is something to grab on to when you’re ready to embrace this optimism and treat your body and yourself right”
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WHAT’S YOUR NEXT GOAL?
My next album. I’m moving forward quickly. I have a pedal board and some electronics. I am in school right now and am learning a lot. It’s going to be fused with using samples with orchestra like the latest album and incorporate different feelings. I’m going to be splitting by doing extremely traditional as if I were doing an album from the ‘50s, and the next thing you know I’ll be doing this electronic thing with effects and all types of stuff. It will be a release of ideas of who I am.
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
When people grow, and I get to see their growth, whatever it is. Obviously, no one is perfect, so whenever someone can acknowledge “what I was doing was not healthy or good” and then move to a different part of their life…seeing that growth evident keeps me alive and gives me joy.
DURING THIS TIME OF SOCIAL, POLITICAL AND VIRUS-INDUCED LOCKDOWN ANGER, IT’S REFRESHING TO HEAR A VOICE OF HOPE AND PEACE. MUSICALLY, LYRICALLY AND SP IRITUALLY, TIVON PENNICOTT IS A MAN TO BE HEARD. IGNORE HIM AT YOUR OWN SOUL’S PERIL.