“It’s a long, arduous road he’s starting to travel, but it may be that at the end of it he’ll find what he’s seeking”
THE RAZOR’S EDGE
Somerset Maugham’s classic novel The Razor’s Edge is about a man, who after fighting in WWI, drops out of his middle class society in order to search for a more transcendental meaning in life. He eventually returns to “civilization”, and the study in contrasts between him and his old acquaintance makes for fascinating comparison, making one wish each of us could take some time to “sit out” a bit and re-evaluate our lives.
After graduating with my degree in chiropractic at 23, I read this book as I also “dropped out” and traveled for 2 ½ years to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. Upon returning from Africa, I came back to the US with more questions that I left with, causing to go into another, shorter exile for 4 months. Unlike many, I finally found out what I was looking for.
As Plato so famously wrote, “The unexamined life is one not worth living”, as we spend more time planning a 2 week summer vacation that figuring out what our place in this God-created world is.
One of the few who have taken a pilgrim’s path is Sonny Rollins, the 90 year old tenor sax legend.
Recently, a historical album of his recording days in 1967 (Rollins In Holland) finds the tenor saxist in an inspired move, but if you know anything about the arc of his career, this was between two of his famous “exiles”, one when he took time out after releasing classic albums like Way Out West, and before his second “time out” when he took a trek to India.
This album inspired me to interview Mr. Rollins about his four “exiles”, two famous ones in which he himself chose, and two that were put into his life. Sometimes we can’t control our lives, but we can control how we respond to it.
Mr. Rollins was gracious enough to give insight into a path and pilgrimage few of us ever take. This is part one of the journey…
LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR EARLY DAYS A BIT.
WHEN YOU FIRST RECORDED WITH BUD POWELL AND FATS NAVARRO, BEBOP REALLY WASN’T ON THE MAP.SWING WAS STILL POPULAR, SO DID YOU FEEL YOU WERE DOING SOMETHING COMPLETELY NEW AND DIFFERENT?
My idols in music were the R&B saxophonists like Louis Jordan. I was a big Louis Jordan fan; I had all of his records. When I got my first saxophone, it was an alto saxophone, back in 1930s.
In the 1940s with Fats Navarro and Bud Powell, I didn’t think I was doing anything brand new; I was just following my idols. After Louis Jordan, my idol was Coleman Hawkins, and I began to get into him around 1939 with “Body and Soul”.
I then got influenced by Charlie Parker, and then those people on that first recording (Powell, Navarro, Tommy Potter/b Roy Haynes/dr) I didn’t think that I was doing anything new. I was doing something that was a trend of the time. Bebop was coming in at the time; I didn’t think I was inventing anything myself.
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“I DIDN”T THINK I WAS DOING ANYTHING NEW…BEBOP WAS COMING IN AT THE TIME”
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SPEAKING OF COLEMAN HAWKINS, WHEN YOU HAD YOUR RECORDING WITH COLEMAN HAWKINS In 1963 (SONNY MEETS HAWK!) WERE YOU AT ALL INTIMIDATED MEETING UP WITH A MUSICAL HERO?
Yes and no. I was never a guy that felt intimidated when I had a chance to play with Charlie Parker, Coleman Hawkins and other people. Not that I didn’t have a great respect and awe for them.
I just felt that if I was there, then I had a right to be there and so I shouldn’t be intimidated. I always felt that I should be there, but it doesn’t mean that I was disrespectful of anybody; quite the contrary. I just never felt scared, intimidated or anything that way.
IF YOU DON’T MIND TALKING ABOUT YOUR FIRST “RETREAT”, I’D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT YOUR INCARCERATION IN 1950 FOR ARMED ROBBERY. WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF WHILE IN PRISON IN RIKERS ISLAND FOR TEN MONTHS? DID YOU CHANGE ONCE YOU GOT OUT? DID YOU COME OUT ANGRY? DID YOU FEEL “I BETTER SHAPE UP”? WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?
I was out of my real mind because I was addicted to drugs. So I was not acting in any particular way, except that I was addicted to drugs, and that’s what caused me to do this foolish act with a couple of other guys.
I was really ignorant, because I had never even fired a gun in my life. I still haven’t fired a gun, to put things in perspective. Yet, I was convicted because I had a gun. I was the gun who ended up carrying the gun ; there were three of us. But the reason I did it was that I was addicted to drugs, so I was acting like a drug addict. It had nothing to do with anything besides that
WHO TALKED YOU INTO STRAIGHTENING OUT YOUR LIFE?
I had turned into a pariah. People walking down the street would cross to the other side to stay away from me, because I was a pretty despicable person. It was only because of drugs, I’d steal stuff from friends, steal horns from guys. Guys I played with, I’d steal their saxophones, all this kind of stuff. I was despicable.
The only person that I had that was really in my corner was my mother. Everybody else in my family had a ‘thumbs down’ on me. But my mother, I was the youngest child, so I could do anything and my mother would still love me that much. (laughs)
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“I HAD TURNED INTO A PARIAH. PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WOULD CROSS OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE TO STAY AWAY FROM ME, BECAUSE I WAS A PRETTY DESPICABLE PERSON”
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IT’S IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOMEONE ON YOUR SIDE.
Right.
And then, I happened to make a record with Charlie Parker and Miles Davis in 1953 called Collector’s Items. Charlie Parker knew of my “escapades”, but he never wanted his young followers like myself to be like him.
He didn’t want that. That’s what sort of tore up his life.
So, while I was making this record, Charlie Parker asked me, “Hey, Sonny, how are you doing?”
I told him that I was doing ok. As matter of fact, I had already gone back to the Institution for violation of parole, so I was not doing ok. But I lied and said, “I’m doing good” and he was so happy, as I had met him before and had come across him several times when he was a drug addict. So he knew I was one of his disciples.
So, when I told him “I’m good, man” he had a smile on his face that was as happy as he could be.
Unfortunately, somebody else that was on that record date went out with me the night before getting high. He ratted on me and told Charlie Parker, “Oh, no! Sonny was out with us last night getting high!”
Charlie Parker’s face changed when he heard this. I saw this the next time I saw him; he was despondent, after finding out that I had been lying to him. I was ashamed.
I realized that my idol didn’t want us to follow him that way into using drugs.
That’s when the realization came to me and after that, I said to myself, “I’m going to stop this. For Charlie Parker, as it was killing him”.
I didn’t know if his other followers were doing the drugs, but now I saw for myself what the whole story was, and how it hurt Charlie Parker.
WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION FOR YOUR FIRST RETREAT, WHEN PEOPLE SAW YOU PLAYING ON THE BRIDGE?
That was in 1959, it was just for the reason that I was practicing, and I had a wonderful place to practice on the bridge, as there was nobody up there. It was the bridge between Brooklyn and Manhattan. I would go up there; there was nobody up there.
People would walk pass the bridge, or cross the bridge, and it was a place that I had a spot on the bridge where nobody could see me. The only people that could see me were walking across the bridge. But there was a train, there were cars, and below there were the boats going up and down the river. I had a perfect spot.
BUT THIS WAS AFTER YOU HAD RELEASED A BUNCH OF FANTASTIC ALBUMS LIKE FREEDOM SUITE, WAY OUT WEST, SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS, AND A NIGHT AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD. HOW COULD YOU FEEL YOU WERE ARTISTICALLY STAGNANT AND NEEDED A RETREAT AFTER SUCH GREAT ALBUMS?
That might have been true for other people, but I have my own ideas of what is “fantastic” and what is a “great” album and all that. My idea was that I wanted do more, and I wasn’t doing what I wanted to do, etc., so that was my motivation.
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“I HAVE BY OWN IDEAS OF WHAT IS “FANTASTIC” AND WHAT IS A “GREAT” ALBUM AND ALL THAT. MY IDEA WAS THAT I WANTED TO DO MORE, IT WASN”T DOING WHAT I WANTED TO DO”
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WHEN YOU DROPPED OUT, DID PEOPLE THINK YOU HAD GONE “OVER THE EDGE” AND “FLIPPED OUT” OR DID PEOPLE THINK YOU WERE MAKING A WISE CHOICE?
One thing that I had realized was that I wasn’t doing it for people; I was doing it for myself. People would say, “Gee, why are you going to the bridge? Why did you drop out?”
So, it wasn’t about people. I don’t things to please people, but for myself. People who are very happy used to come to me later on and tell me how impressed they were by the fact that I had dropped out and did something that I was thinking about doing something that I thought was important to me.
I didn’t ask people whether I should do it or not, because, as you just said, I had “great records” out, but this was my own idea of what I was musically, and what I wanted to do.
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“I DON”T DO THINGS TO PLEASE PEOPLE”
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WERE YOU MARRIED AT THE TIME?
Yes.
WHAT DID YOUR WIFE SAY ABOUT IT?
Fortunately, she had a good job, so we were able to sort of live off of what she was making. I only did it for a certain time; when it got to be that time when I figured that I was up there long enough, I came down.
WHAT MADE YOU REALIZE THAT YOU WERE READY TO “GO BACK” INTO RECORDING AND CONCERTS?
Actually, I wasn’t ready to go back, but I couldn’t stay up there forever. (chuckles) My wife was working, and I didn’t want my wife to be working while I wasn’t working. It was one obligation I had.
The other obligation was that I had found a wonderful place up there. It was like Shangri-La. It was too good; I could have stayed up there a lot longer, but as I said, my wife was working.
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“ACTUALLY, I WASN’T READY TO GO BACK, BUT I COULDN’T STAY UP THERE FOREVER” (LAUGHS)
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WHEN YOU CAME BACK, DID YOUR NEXT RECORDINGS WITH JIM HALL (THE BRIDGE) OR GOING A BIT MORE OUTSIDE ON SUBSEQUENT ALBUMS REFLECT ANYTHING FROM THIS RETREAT?
I’m not sure about that. Some people told me that they didn’t hear any difference, like “Gee, why did you go away?”
But it’s one of those things where it’s strictly my own concept of what I was doing. I never wanted to depend too much on what people heard, or what people liked. It was all my own feeling of where I was at musically. Some people understood it, and others did not. I had my own idea of what I wanted to do, and what I was trying to accomplish. I try to avoid being concerned of what other people thought about what I was doing
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“I TRY TO AVOID BEING CONCERNED OF WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THOUT ABOUT WHAT I WAS DOING”
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“I don’t think I shall ever find peace till I make up my mind about thing’s’ he said gravely. ‘It’s very difficult to put into words. The moment you try you feel embarrassed. You say to yourself; “‘who am I that I should bother about this, that and the other? Wouldn’t it be better to follow the beaten path and let what’s coming to you come?’ And then you think of a fellow who an hour before was full of life and fun, and he’s lying dead. It’s hard not to ask yourself what life is all about and whether there’s any sense to it, or whether it’s all a tragic blunder of blind fate”
THE RAZOR’S EDGE
THUS ENDS THE FIRST TWO EXILES OF SONNY ROLLINS. NEXT ARE HIS THIRD AND LAST…