IT MUST HAVE COME AS A SURPRISE AT THE BLUE WHALE JAZZ CLUB LAST YEAR WHEN ONE OUR SAXOPHONE TITANS, CHRIS POTTER, SET DOWN HIS SELMER AND SAT DOWN AT THE PIANO TO PLAY A COUPLE GORGEOUS COMPOSITIONS. “WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!?”
IN RESPONSE TO THE COVID LOCKDOWN, POTTER UPPED THE ANTE FOR HIS LATEST ALBUM, THERE IS A TIDE, AND PLAYED ALL OF THE INSTRUMENTS, RANGING FROM JUST ABOUT EVERY WOODWIND TO RHYTHM SECTION INSTRUMENTS AND GUITAR. THE RESULT IS POSSIBLY HIS MOST LYRICAL AND TEXTURED ALBUM TO DATE.
HE’S ALSO SPENT SOME TIME MAKING SOME EDUCATIONAL VIDEOS WITH FELLOW SAXIST BOB REYNOLDS, ONCE AGAIN TURNING THE LEMONS OF COVID INTO THE LEMONADE OF COMMUNICATION WITH ASPIRING MUSICIANS. MOST RECENTLY, HE’S RECORDED AN ALBUM (SUNRISE REPRISE) WITH HIS CIRCUITS TRIO IN ORDER TO CREATE A MIX OF COLTRANE EXPLORATIONS WITH CTI SOUL.
CHRIS GAVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK A PLETHORA OF QUESTIONS IN REGARD TO HIS LATEST RELEASE, FUTURE GOALS, AND WHAT MAKES HIM TICK AS A CREATIVE FORCE IN THE JAZZ WORLD.
I THINK I FIRST SAW YOU PLAY AT THE OLD CATALINA’S BACK IN THE 90s WITH BEBOP TRUMPETER RED RODNEY
That was a few lifetimes ago (laughs).
WHAT DID YOU LEARN BEING WITH RED RODNEY, WHO IS ESSENTIALLY ONE STEP AWAY FROM PLAYING WITH BIRD?
It’s hard to put into words, but really the exposure to that depth of jazz culture. If you’re paying attention, there’s no way that it’s not going to rub off on you.
Of course, I had spent countless hours listening to Bird, and some of these records Red is on.
Getting a chance to actually play with him and get to know him, and he was quite a character!
When they say “they don’t make people like that anymore”, they really didn’t after Red Rodney. He was a first generation bebopper.
And concerning the phrase “checkered past”, I think that he would readily admit that he had one. (laughs)
**********
“When they say “they don’t make people like that anymore”, they really didn’t after Red Rodney”
**********
MAYBE EVEN A “CHESS” PAST!
And a higher dimensional level at that (laughs)
DID HE EVER GIVE YOU ANY ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO PLAY, OR CAREER ADVICE?
I would say that the deepest lessons came on the bandstand.
I kind of recognized his advice as being from a certain point of view and angle.
I remember some kind of conversation, where we were talking about how the ballads could be a little bit more subtle, and his take was “NO! Nothing should be subtle! We should hit them over the head with the ballad!”
I know what he meant. He wasn’t into the avant garde for one thing; he called it “snake charming music”. It just wasn’t his thing.
So there was a directness about his playing. A lot of the bebop guys shared that. It was one generation removed from big bands, which is really how he started. He was a Harry James guy when he first started playing.
There was a certain thing about how you deliver the music to an audience, and that a certain self-indulgence just was a waste of everyone’s time and the music wasn’t as good.
*********
“His take was ‘NO! Nothing should be subtle! We should hit them over the head with the ballad!'”
*********
THAT GETS BACK TO MUSCLE MEMORY-HE’S USED TO BEING WHO HE IS!
Exactly
YOUR NEW ALBUM IS DEFINITELY A REACTION TO COVID, SINCE YOU ARE PLAYING ALL OF THE INSTRUMENTS.
Yes, but it was always something that I had in mind, that it would be fun to do. But when would I find time to do it?
Definitely the emotional state that I was in, and everyone’s been in, just being “stuck” and not really able to engage with other folks the way we’re used to, especially as jazz musicians. I mean, that’s essentially the thing.
I felt that for my own sanity I needed to keep creating, and hopefully put something out that would be positive in some way.
*********
“I felt that for my own sanity I needed to keep creating, and hopefully put something out that would be positive in some way”
*********
HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET OUT OF THE “I’M NOT DOING ANYTHING” FUNK AND START PUSHING YOURSELF TO GET MOVING OUT ?
Sometimes it was a battle, like in the morning I’d think “Am I going to do this?” and then I’d think “Okay, let’s do it” and then the work would swallow me up.
I kind of kept working; I was only writing at first.
The shock of when I had all of my work cancelled for March, April and May meant that there was a huge bit of work that I was just a week away from going out and doing, and then it got completely swallowed up. That was a big shock. As the whole thing kind of sank in, a lot of us had this feeling that every day things kept shifting. “How bad was this thing going to get?”
And, it kept getting deeper and deeper, to where “Oh, they’re only allowing half the number of people in restaurants. Maybe kids shouldn’t go out to the playground. Oh, now school’s closed.” Every day it was like going down another lever to where you realized “This is really going to happen”, and it took awhile to get used to that reality.
I still don’t think I’m used to it. I don’t think anyone is, but at least it’s been going on long enough that the first reaction of shock has subsided, I guess.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF?
(laughs) That I could stand to be a much better drummer, bassist, guitarist, keyboardist, clarinet player and flute player! And saxophonist for that matter!
Doing this album was a great chance to really get inside of a lot of different aspects of making music that I’ve always been interested in, but haven’t really had the time to explore.
It reminded me of when I was a teenager; I used to do that kind of thing. I’d make recordings in my room and overdub the bass and drum parts just for fun. I felt this album was a continuation of that, even to the extent that I went down to my parent’s house to start this, where I could stretch out with the drums. So I was even in the same room.
Paying attention to trying to make bass parts that really, really worked, and all of these attentions to details in the areas that I hadn’t spent much time on was humbling. I feel like I really learned a lot.
*********
“Paying attention to trying to make bass parts that really, really worked, and all of these attentions to details in the areas that I hadn’t spent much time on was humbling”
*********
THE LAST TIME YOU CAME TO THE BLUE WHALE, YOU DID A COUPLE OF SONGS ON THE PIANO.
Piano is the instrument that I’m most fluent on, besides the saxophone, of course. I use it to write, and I kind of think from the piano in terms of harmony and the structure of the pieces. That was maybe the least of the stretch.
But it wasn’t like I had a grand piano to record. I had my upright at home which sounded cool, but I had to use it in specific ways to make it not like “Oh, it should be a grand piano, but it’s just an upright being recorded with two mics”.
ANOTHER DEPARTURE FROM MANY OF YOUR ALBUMS IS THAT ALMOST ALL OF THESE SONGS ARE FAIRLY CONCISE, AS ARE THE SOLOS.
That was something that I like about how it turned out.
Some of it was just the structure of how I started to work on it. I kind of constructed it in certain ***ways much more like a pop producer would do it. I wasn’t a band coming in and blowing; it just me.
Usually I just sit down with a scratch keyboard part, and then the bass along with that. But here I had to guess how long the solos would be. I also knew that my level of virtuosity is not great enough to really stretch out on these other instruments. Also, I would be kind of just making it up.
Instead of the magic of a jazz performance, with everyone performing “live” together and reacting to each other, I would be reacting to what I just did on the previous take, so it would be a bit of a musical illusion in that way.
But that’s how ended up constructing it. I’d set up layers, and this one layer would a me, affect and I’d think “I’ve got to do this previous layer again” or do a different part on it to react to the new thing. I kept building up things that added to what the final picture was, which was not the same thing as I had started with.
I really enjoyed that process of thinking more like a pop producer. I’d think, “On the second half here it needs some percussion, and I’ll add a woodwind harmony here.” Those are things that you can’t do when you’re improvising on the saxophone on stage.
*********
“Instead of the magic of a jazz performance, with everyone performing “live” together and reacting to each other, I would be reacting to what I just did on the previous take, so it would be a bit of a musical illusion in that way”
*********
A COUPLE OF THESE SONGS MAKE YOU THINK “I CAN SEE NORAH JONES SINGING TO THIS SONG”.
I’d love that
WHAT MUSICIAN IN YOUR BAND DO YOU NOW HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR, HAVING “WALKED A MILE IN THEIR SHOES”?
(laughs) All of them!
Just the muscle memory of devoting countless hours of your life playing an instrument, you realize just how high the level is in these guys who can really get around.
I WAS GOING TO JOKE ABOUT ASKING WHEN THE BAND’S GOING TO TOUR, BUT I’LL RESIST.
(laugh) It’s always playing in my head!856
WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM YOUR TIME WITH PAUL MOTIAN?
I learned a lot from him.
He wasn’t even that much younger than Rodney, but he came from a generational shift with a much different point of view. He came from playing very straight-ahead, being into Kenny Clarke and Art Blakey. These were the guys who he was always talking about, the drummers of his generation that he loved.
Even though he came from that generation, he did embrace the aesthetic of the avant garde in a deep way. He thought of himself as an artist, and he was going to react to everything musically in as intuitive a way as possible.
It seemed to me that the way he played a song, if you ever saw him, it looked like he was trying to approach the drums like a professional drummer; he was going on his instinct. He trusted his instinct, and his instincts were amazingly good.
That was a huge thing that I’ve carried with me.
*********
“It seemed to me that the way he played a song, if you ever saw him… he was going on his instinct. He trusted his instinct, and his instincts were amazingly good”
*********
YOU HAVE GROWN UP WITH A HEART FOR PAUL DESMOND AND LESTER YOUNG. THAT LIGHT AND AIRY SOUND, FILLED WITH FLUFFY LEGATO. HOW DO YOU GO FROM “I LOVE THIS GUY’S SOUND” TO DEVELOPING YOUR OWN?
I don’t know! (laughs)
It seems to me that having had the chance to work with some very strong identifiable voices in the world of jazz, I think that you just go for what you like.
Everyone starts out by kind of copying what they hear, and that’s a very important part of the process of learning jazz, especially because there’s only certain amount of it that can be written down. It’s about the phrasing and the rhythm, obviously. It’s about the time feel and the way that you express an idea as much as the idea itself.
There’s a process of being influenced by a lot of different people. It’s a bit of a paradox, but I feel that the more people that you’re influenced by, the more personal your sound can get. You take a little bit of this, and a little bit of that; things that move you.
And, the thing that you have to do is to just get out of the way and let it go with whatever you like. That takes a certain level of courage, because maybe you’re going to think “People like what this other guy does, so maybe I should do that”. Maybe that’s the only thing that you have to do in terms of an active thing.
**********
“It’s a bit of a paradox…but the more people that you’re influenced by, the more personal your sound can get”
**********
Another part of it is to study whatever you like and just let it marinate, digest it. Then practice a lot, and I mean A LOT A LOT A LOT. Work on it. It will then happen by itself.
We all have our unique points of view, from where we come from, even with the unique frame of our physical body.
HAVING SAID THAT, WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU HAD TO ADAPT TO WHEN YOU JOINED UP WITH PAT METHENY, AS HIS SOUND IS QUITE A WORLD OF ITS OWN.
Not especially, I guess, because I was so familiar with his music.
The way that he sets things up it is very clear what my role is. It was kind of less challenging in a certain way because it was conceptually clear what my role would be.
********
“And, the thing that you have to do is to just get out of the way and let it go with whatever you like. That takes a certain level of courage”
********
DID HE SPELL THINGS OUT FOR YOU?
He didn’t say anything, but the way that the music is is how his mind works. There are certain ways that different music wants to be played. That was kind of clear from the beginning, like “Oh yeah, this is what this needs”.
********
“There are certain ways that different music wants to be played”
********
WAS THERE A TIME IN YOUR CAREER WHEN YOU FEEL THAT YOU’D MADE THE BIGGEST QUANTUM LEAP? , AND SAID “I’VE ARRIVED; I KNOW WHO I AM”?
(chuckles). I don’t know, maybe that will happen tomorrow! (laughs)
There are places where you get “Ok, I’ve gotten to a certain point in my career” and when you get there, you’re always looking at the next mountain and the next horizon.
It’s like anything in life; you keep trying to get hopefully better and better in as many ways as you can, but then life keeps changing on you.
Every age in your life has its own challenges. Once you arrived at age 30 at a certain way, well, at age 40 you’re going to be in a different place and have to adjust to that. That’s a good thing.
*********
“There are places where you get “Ok, I’ve gotten to a certain point in my career” and when you get there, you’re always looking at the next mountain and the next horizon”
*********
LET’S TALK ABOUT THE ART OF SOUND. IS THERE A TRADEOFF BETWEEN HAVING GREAT SPEED WITH CHOPS, INTONATION, ARTICULATION AND TONE? IT SEEMS TO ME THAT HORN PLAYERS MAKE A TRADEOFF BETWEEN TONE AND CHOPS.
Maybe it’s just the meaning of the words, but in my mind “chops” includes articulation and tone.
If you’re able to get around really fast, but you don’t have a good sound, then that’s an aspect of your chops that you need to work on.
There’s always a kind of trade-off with different directions, which is part of finding an individual way of playing. What do you want to emphasize? What feels comfortable to you?
A good example would be Joe Henderson. He was able to zip around the horn. He used a very, very small mouthpiece setup, so he didn’t have to blow hard. And, he was very soft as a person. He was able to get this huge emotional range, and still be able to move very fast around the horn within a very small decibel range.
Whereas someone like Stan Getz, who I never heard “live”, but I heard that he was extremely loud. His sound projected.
So there are certain kinds of tradeoffs. Stan could get around as fast as he needed to, but not quite as fast as Joe Henderson. But it was integrated into his whole concept.
YOU DID SOME VIDEOS WITH BOB REYNOLDS. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THAT?
They were done in his house. The impetus was that I was in LA, and I had some time and went over to his house for dinner, and he asked “Do you want to do this?” and I said “Sure!”
He’s someone who I’ve known for a long time, and I was glad to do it.
I think there was a Master Class that was shut down, due to the COVID lockdown, so we were looking at each other and saying “What are we going to do?”, so that was a nice thing to look forward to and do.
It was a nice way to connect with him, as he’s on the West Coast and I’m on the East Coast, so we weren’t going to share the same physical space for some time.
YOU DID A VIDEO ON STANDARDS. WHAT IS THE REASON A SAXOPHONE PLAYER SHOULD LEARN A CANON OF STANDARDS AS WELL AS WRITING HIS OWN MATERIAL?
I don’t think it’s an either/or thing, and I wouldn’t say that standards are the only way.
I think that I started writing as soon as I started playing the saxophone. Little melodies here and there.
Maybe you don’t want to play within the jazz language as it has come down from Louis Armstrong to Duke Ellington to Lester Young to Charlie Parker and Miles Davis. But, if you really want to get inside of what that musical language is, and what makes it tick, then there’s no way to avoid learning standards. That’s the basic matrix that it comes from.
I still work on a lot of concepts when I’m working on something; if I’m working on some rhythmic idea, or a phrasing idea, it’s still often in the context of playing standards, even though I’m not usually doing that in my own bands. I’m not going to say that that is the only way to do it, but it gives the music a kind of connection and a depth that would be impossible to invent by yourself in a room. It gives you a connection to the history as it’s come down.
*********
“if you really want to get inside of what that musical language is, and what makes it tick, then there’s no way to avoid learning standards”
*********
WHAT IS THE LONGEST YOU’VE EVER PRACTICED ON SOMETHING?
I don’t know. Doing the solo record, I was jumping around from instrument to instrument, and I had plenty of 12 hour days in that.
Writing is what probably takes up the most time, especially for larger ensembles. An entire day can go by and you’ve made a few decisions, but it’s maybe a minute of music.
Certain kind of projects show a more “writer” side, and other projects show the improvisation side.
It’s all part of how I think.
********
“Writing is what probably takes up the most time, especially for larger ensembles. An entire day can go by and you’ve made a few decisions, but it’s maybe a minute of music”
********
WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR WHEN YOU WATCH A SAX PLAYER PLAY?
The first thing that hits me, as with most other listeners, especially people who don’t play the saxophone, is sound, and presence. The way of articulating and phrasing their ideas. That’s the first thing that I listen for.
There’s a certain identity you should get from any player. Some are obviously more fully formed than others.
DO YOU HAVE A COMFORT FOOD THAT YOU LIKE PLAYING?
The comfort food is standards.
********
“The comfort food is standards”
********
IS THERE A STANDARD YOU WISH YOU HAD WRITTEN?
Lots! But it isn’t something that I would have written.
Something that is enjoyable about it now is that they usually come from shows, and they usually have lyrics. I like to know the lyrics, but often times the lyrics are really corny. Yet, in a glorious way that is of a certain time and so gives you a certain feeling 2810.
So I guess it’s hard for me to even imagine myself as a great Tin Pan Alley songwriter.
MY FAVORITE SAX SOLO IS LESTER YOUNG’S “LADY BE GOOD”, BUT ONCE I LEARNED THE LYRICS TO IT, I WAS SO DISAPPOINTED!
Yeah, those aren’t a stand out. Some of them are quite good. I was just listening to “Stardust” and I hadn’t heard those lyrics in awhile. I heard the Nat “King” Cole version, and thought, “Now, THAT’S a song!”
OR “MIDNIGHT SUN” WITH REFERENCES TO “AN ALABASTER PALACE” AND THE “AURORA BOREALIS”
Well, that was Johnny Mercer, so that makes sense
WHAT IS YOUR ACHILLES HEEL AS A PLAYER?
The most difficult thing for me, and it goes to the heart of personality, is that I always want to have my music feel like there is no filter between my direct experiences of what I’m trying to get across and what’s being heard. Or, no filter between what I’m experiencing in the moment and playing. That’s the real strength of jazz music, and improvised music is its immediacy. It’s the sound of lived experience.
To somehow get out of your way and find the strength, courage and focus and all those things to feel like what you’re playing is really the most vital thing that you can do at that moment-that’s the hugest challenge. I don’t feel like I’m always there.
**********
“I always want to have my music feel like there is no filter between my direct experiences of what I’m trying to get across and ***what’s being heard”
**********
IS THERE ANY PHILOSOPHY, RELIGION, TEACHING OR BOOK THAT HAS HELPED GUIDE AND INSPIRE YOU?
I wouldn’t say just one.
I’ve checked out various things. There are a lot of amazing things in the Bible, in the Bhagavad Gita and in the Tao-Ching. All of the great writings that have come down. There’s a lot of wisdom that has come down over many, many years.
Also, Shakespeare, he and these others have inspired me.
The message of all of them is to look inside and see what’s there and try to deal with it. That’s what I’m hopefully trying to do every day.
WHAT’S THE BEST ADVICE YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU?
They didn’t say too much. Maybe that was their good advice! (laughs)
They knew what not to say!
*********
“The real strength of jazz music, and improvised music is its immediacy…no filter between what I’m experiencing in the moment and playing”
*********
THAT’S GOOD ADVICE FOR A SAX PLAYER!
ARE THERE ANY BOOKS YOU’VE READ YOU WISH EVERYONE WOULD READ?
I just named some good ones. There are so many books that have given richness to life. Shakespeare is pretty hard to beat. You have to get used to the language, obviously, but the depth of human feeling in there is very inspiring to me.
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
It depends. It can be that closeness to people that you love, and sometimes it just comes out of nowhere.
It can just be from walking outside, and it’s raining, there’s leaves on the trees and it just hits you the right way and you go “Wow! It’s amazing! It’s incredible to be alive.”
WHO’S BRAIN IN WORLD HISTORY WOULD YOU LIKE TO PICK?
There are people that do what I’m trying to do, so I’d love the chance to talk to Billy Strayhorn, Duke Ellington and John Coltrane and Miles. That’s directly related to what I do.
THIS INTERVIEW HAS BEEN INTERESTING, BECAUSE WHEN I SEE YOU PLAY, I THINK OF AN INSTRUMENTALIST, BUT HERE, YOU HAVE “MUSCLE MEMORY” OF A COMPOSER. YOU GET A LOT OF JOY FROM THAT PART.
Sure, that’s a lot of what I can work on at home that prepares me to be a performer and improvisor. The way it seems to me is that composing is the same process as improvising, it’s just that it’s slowed down and you can flesh it out, you can edit what you’ve done. You can change your mind.
When I look at improvising I want to be composing on the spot. It seems like it’s exactly the same process; if you have it all mapped out in your head already exactly where you wanted to go before you’re really in it, then you’re probably going to be shutting down some interesting avenues., and that’s not going to work.
But, it’s impossible to create anything out of nothing. It’s good to have something to create things from, whether it’s a standard or your own composition. You need something to hang your ideas on and develop them on. It’s part of the same process to me.
*********
“composing is the same process as improvising, it’s just that it’s slowed down and you can flesh it out, you can edit what you’ve done. You can change your mind”
*********
WHEN YOU’RE ON STAGE, DO YOU EVER FEEL LIKE “I’M JUST GOING TO DO ONE CHORUS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS” OR “I’M GOING TO PULL A PAUL GONSALVES AND JUST BLOW FOREVER”?
I would hope that if it feels like it only needs one chorus I would have the wisdom to stop. I also hope that if I felt that it needed 27 choruses I would have the stamina and imagination to go all the way.
ANY FUTURE PROJECTS?
There’s another album I’ve already done that’s coming out in April. It’s with the Circuits Trio, which we recorded in one night in September. I added some overdubs with James Francies . It’s the same group as the last album: James on keyboards and Eric Harland on drums. 3725 We had done a lot of work since making the first album, and I think it really shows. I’m really happy with the way this one turned out.
And it’s kind of interesting; the solo record has all of the songs really concise and short, while this one is almost the opposite. We hadn’t played in so long, and we had so much pent up feeling that we just couldn’t hold back. For me it was a very special vibe to be able to play together after all what has happened. It’s got a kind of special spiritual energy, so I’m happy how it turned out as well.
*********
“The message… is to look inside and see what’s there and try to deal with it. That’s what I’m hopefully trying to do every day”
*********
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR FUNERAL?
(laughs) “I’m glad he was here”
THE INSPIRING PART OF CHRIS POTTER’S CAREER IS THAT HE HAS USED EVERY STAGE OF HIS CAREER AS A VEHICLE TO GROW INTO BECOMING A MUSICIAN AND PERSON PREPARED FOR THE NEXT LEVEL. FROM RED RODNEY TO PAUL MOTIAN TO PAT METHENY, ETC., NOT TO MENTION HIS OWN CAREER THAT HAS SHOWN A GROWN IN HIS PLAYING AND COMPOSING SKILLS.
EVERY STAGE IN ONE’S LIFE IS A PREPARATION FOR THE NEXT ONE, AND CHRIS POTTER HAS TURNED THIS DRACONIAN LOCKDOWN INTO AN OPPORTUNITY TO GROWN AS NOT ONLY A COMPOSER AND ARRANGER, BUT AS A MULTI-DIMENSIONED MUSICIAN. HE HAS USED EACH PERSON, EACH RECORDING AND EACH MOMENT OF HIS LIFE AS A PATH FOR FURTHER GROWTH.
BUT THEN, THAT’S PART OF CHRIS POTTER’S MUSCLE MEMORY!