AT 77 YEARS OF AGE, DRUMMER JACK DEJOHNETTE HAS COME FULL CIRCLE. ONE OF THE MOST CREATIVE AND GROUND-BREAKING DRUMMERS IN JAZZ HISTORY, MR. DEJOHNETTE HAS GRACED SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT RECORDINGS OF MODERN TIMES, INCLUDING MILES DAVIS’ BITCHES BREW, HIS CLASSIC TRIO ALBUMS WITH KEITH JARRETT AND HIS OWN CREATIVE MATERIAL WITH SPECIAL EDITION.
ONE OF THE MORE INTRIGUING ASPECTS OF DEJOHNETTE’S CAREER IS THAT HE HAD A PAIR BRIEF SIT-INS WITH JOHN COLTRANE, MOST NOTABLY FILLING IN FOR ELVIN JONES FOR A GIG WITH PIANIST MCCOY TYNER AND BASSIST REGGIE GARRISON.
FAST FORWARD HALF A CENTURY, AND DEJOHNETTE PRESENTLY LEADS A TRIO WITH THE OFFSPRING OF TWO OF THE MEMBERS OF THAT CLASSIC QUARTET, AS HE TEAMS WITH SAXIST RAVI COLTRANE AND BASSIST/ELECTRONICS MASTER MATTHEW GARRISON FOR A FRESH SOUNDING COLLECTION OF SONGS THAT TAKES THE TORCH OF THE PARENTS AND PASSES IT TO THE NEXT GENERATION.
MR. DEJOHNNETTE WAS GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH US TO REFLECT ON HIS PAST, GIVE ADVICE ON HIS LESSONS LEARNED AND SPEAK OF HIS MUSICAL AND LIFE INSPIRATIONS
YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW DRUMMERS TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE TEMPLATE OF THE DRUMS ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND. DID YOU CONSCIOUSLY DO SOMETHING, OR WAS IT BECAUSE YOU WERE INITIALLY A PIANO PLAYER?
The piano helped quite a bit, but I just built on what everyone else did before me. Elvin Jones, and some local guys in Chicago, a guy named Wilver Campbell. Art Taylor, Tony Williams and Roy Haynes.
I built on that and approached the instrument like a painter, a colorist rather than a straight up and down drummer. That came about from working with so many people with a broad interest in music. They knew to translate that and communicate it to the audience
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“I…approached the instrument like a painter, a colorist rather than a straight up and down drummer”
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YOU DID A SESSION AS A PIANIST WITH ROY HAYNES ON DRUMS. HOW WAS IT TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DRUMS?
It was very challenging! (laughs) Roy doesn’t always play a down beat; he’d always play the “ands” and put beats deliberately in different places just to change the rhythmic flow of everything. So, playing with him I had to really have a strong sense of the time and where the beat was when I’d play to be freer in it.
THERE’S ALSO A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DRUMMERS AND BASS PLAYERS. WHAT DO YOU APPRECIATE IN A BASS PLAYER AND WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN ONE?
Good sound, good tone, technique and imagination. Flexibility and a great feel. One who is fearless, not afraid to take chances.
WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR WHEN YOU WATCH A DRUMMER?
I look to see if they are a team player, and that their imagination can propel the music no matter whether they are playing loud or soft. They need to play with dynamics, that’s very important, and that they listen. That’s the most important thing.
YOU HAVE A UNIQUE PLACE IN JAZZ HISTORY. YOU HAVE PLAYED WITH BOTH THE FATHERS AND SONS OF HALF OF JOHN COLTRANE’S “CLASSIC” QUARTET. YOU PLAYED WITH JIMMY GARRISON AND JOHN COLTRANE, AND YOU ARE CURRENTLY PLAYING WITH THEIR RESPECTIVE SONS MATTHEW AND RAVI.
PLEASE TELL ME YOUR FIRST MEETING WITH THE FATHERS
First, you have to put the mother, Alice in there too. She was part of that.
I sat in with John Coltrane because Elvin Jones didn’t make the last set. I had played jam sessions at that club. The place was packed, and the owner and told them, “Jack’s a good drummer, he can play the last set for you.”
So I went up and played three songs with John, McCoy and Jimmy. That was really great for me in terms of the quality of my playing, that I was able to hold my own at that time.
I played again with John along with another outstanding drummer, Rashied Ali. Alice was on piano, Jimmy was on bass and Pharaoh Sanders was also on the other saxophone.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUCH STRONG PERSONALITIES LIKE COLTRANE AND SANDERS OUT IN FRONT, DO YOU FOCUS ON THEM, OR DO YOU KEEP LOCKED IN WITH THE BASSIST SO YOU DON’T GET LOST IN THE AVALANCHE?
No, it’s all just part of a sound that John was hearing. It wasn’t something that I would break down; it was a combination of everybody’s creative exploration. We would create a sound which John liked to play over.
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We would create a sound which John liked to play over.
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WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS WITH PLAYING WITH SONS RAVI COLTRANE AND MATTHEW GARRISON?
I have known them both since they were kids. Matthew’s mother, Roberta Garrison, had a dance company in Italy. My wife Lydia told her that she could send Matthew to come over and live with us. He came over and he spent a lot of time with us. We’d talk about drums and different kinds of music. He’d spend a lot of time on piano, bass and drums before he went on to Berklee, and the rest is history. He taught there along with Gary Burton and all the top names.
Ravi I knew when he was a baby. When he came to New York (in the 70s-keep this-accurate?) I got to play with him then eventually we put a concert together in 2000 at the Brooklyn Museum. That was the first time we all played together.
Time went by and our paths would cross and we agreed to put it all together for the last five years or so. We played at Matthew’s place, started touring and we recorded for ECM.
We’ve been enjoying this unique sound with acoustic piano, Matthew’s electronic sound and Ravi’s soprano and tenor saxophone. We’re preparing to record in the studio for another album for ECM.
DO YOU THREE FEEL AND APPRECIATE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF YOU COMING FULL CIRCLE WITH THESE FAMILIES?
Of course! It’s fantastic! This combination of myself with Matt and Ravi has a great feeling of respect and love of music that has come before, but with enhancement and our added contemporary voices to the now.
THAT’S TRUE, AND YET YOUR MUSIC ALWAYS APPEARS THAT WAY. IT’S A LOGICAL STEP TO TAKE THE SONS OF ARTISTS YOU PLAYED WITH AND GO FORWARD TO MAKE A NEW SOUND.
That’s it. You get it. We pick each other’s brain. It’s a three way exchange.
They’re interested in making music together, that’s first and foremost. We don’t take this for granted.
It makes me feel good because we stimulate each other. It’s a shared musical entity
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They’re interested in making music together, that’s first and foremost. We don’t take this for granted
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IT’S IMPORTANT FOR THE OLDER AND YOUNGER GENERATIONS TO KNOW THAT THEY EACH NEED EACH OTHER. ONE FOR WISDOM AND THE OTHER FOR ENTHUSIASTIC IDEAS
Part of the jazz tradition has been to learn something from the younger musicians, and have the younger ones learn from the older musicians. And that’s not only for music, but in everything else. They’re passing stuff on to me; it’s a circle
DO YOU THINK GOING TO A MUSIC COLLEGE IS ESSENTIAL THESE DAYS?
I went to a music college but didn’t graduate. It depends on how much money you have (laughs)
LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR TIME WITH MILES DAVIS.
DID YOU FEEL AT THE TIME WHEN YOU WERE DOING THE BITCHES BREW SESSIONS THAT YOU WERE MAKING A SEISMIC MUSICAL SHIFT, OR WAS IT “JUST ANOTHER GIG”?
Every date with Miles is a major event. We didn’t know how it was important, but we knew it was important.
ou might ask what I learn from playing with Miles. You learn to be prepared to play what you don’t know.
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“Every date with Miles is a major event. We didn’t know how it was important, but we knew it was important”
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WERE THERE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS DURING THOSE SESSIONS?
If there was something specific that he wanted he would say something. Otherwise it was a few words here and there. You were left to your own creativity, and his.
DID ANYTHING GO THROUGH YOUR MIND THE FIRST TIME YOU HEARD THE TAPES PLAYED BACK?
It was a lot of music! It sounded good; I like what I heard.
NOT ONLY WERE YOU WITH DAVIS DURING THAT PERIOD, BUT YOU PLAYED WITH HIM DURING THE LIVE/EVIL SESSIONS WITH BASSIST MICHAEL HENDERSON.
Yes, but with Bitches Brew, what gets overlooked is that a lot of credit needs to be given to Teo Macero, who put it all together. He edited everything; a lot of people don’t know it and should.
Teo would listen to it, and Miles would listen to it and they would collaborate and they were both integral in how the album turned out. Also with Live at the Fillmore.
BECAUSE OF HIS IMPACT, WAS THERE A BIG TRANSITION IN GOING FROM THE STUDIO TO A LIVE CONCERT?
Oh yes, of course. It was more spontaneous on stage.
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“You might ask what I learn from playing with Miles. You learn to be prepared to play what you don’t know”
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WAS IT A TRANSITION WORKING WITH A MORE FUNK ORIENTED BASSIST LIKE HENDERSON?
I had no problem with him. He just fit right in with the direction that Miles was going.
BOTH YOU AND MILES DAVIS HAVE CREATIVE MINDS, BUT WHEN HE GAVE YOU HIS LATEST IDEA, DID YOU EVER THINK, “HE’S GOING TOO FAR THIS TIME”?
No, never. I just flowed with the music that was going in my head with him.
WAS IT A DIFFERENT TYPE OF CHALLENGE PLAYING IN A TRIO FORMAT WITH BILL EVANS?
It was different, but it was fun. I actually left Bill to go with Miles. He thought that it was great that I was going to play for him.
YOU SPOKE OF TEO MACERO BEING UNDERAPPRECIATED, YOU COULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT MUHAL ABRAMS. TELL ME HIS IMPACT ON YOUR PLAYING.
Muhal, Roscoe Mitchell, Joseph Jarman and all of those guys in Chicago laid down the foundation for a broader way to write and communicate compositional music and improvisational ways to express the ideas and concepts of musicians.
Muhal was a great mentor; his door was always open . He helped me a lot with life issues as well as music. He started the AACM but it was officially started the year before I left. I was involved with what he called his experimental orchestra and out of that came smaller groups like the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Up until recently it’s still going forward.
Muhal has been a mentor, an amazing composer and pianist. Fortunately we had a chance to reunite and do Made In Chicago with Henry Threadgill, Roscoe and Larry Gray. That was special.
I’M GOING TO THROW A COUPLE MORE NAMES AT YOU. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WITH JACO PASTORIUS, WHOM YOU PLAYED WITH?
He was amazing with his electric bass. He laid the foundation for how it’s played now.
DID YOU EVER HAVE A GIG WHEN YOU FELT THE LEADER WAS TESTING YOU?
Oh, all of the time (laughs). That’s part of it.
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“with Bitches Brew, what gets overlooked is that a lot of credit needs to be given to Teo Macero, who put it all together. He edited everything; a lot of people don’t know it and should”
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WHEN DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARRIVED AS A MUSICIAN? 1805
When I came to New York and was hired by all of the great musicians that I’d listen to on record. New York was the mecca of everything, so I started working with John Patton, Charles Tolliver, Abbey Lincoln, Betty Carter and Hank Mobley, just to name a few. I was deliberate to be working at the top of my musicianship.
HANK MOBLEY JUST GOT SELECTED INTO THE DOWNBEAT HALL OF FAME. HE IS ANOTHER UNDERRATED ARTIST AND COMPOSER.
Both his writing and playing was very, very lyrical. He had a beautiful sound with great balance. He has been overlooked for sure.
WHO ELSE THESE DAYS IS UNDER-APPRECIATED?
Someone who is underappreciated, and you don’t necessarily think of him as a jazz musician, is Mitch Mitchell, because of his jazz drumming with Jimi Hendrix. He’s totally overlooked. Jimi left him a lot of freedom to create his role in that group, and he did that really well.
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“(Mitch Mitchell’s) totally overlooked. Jimi left him a lot of freedom to create his role in that group, and he did that really well”
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DRUMMING IS A PHYSICALLY DEMANDING INSTRUMENT. WHAT DO YOU DO TO STAY IN SHAPE?
I try to get a lot of rest when I can (laughs). I go for walks and things like that.
WHAT DO YOU DO AS A HOBBY TO HELP INSPIRE YOURSELF?
I read a lot of books. Novels and enlightenment books. Also poetry, a guy named David White is an amazing Irish poet. I like Victor Tohl’s The Power of Now. It’s still making an impression on me.
There’s a lot of things to practice to get to a place where you’re not always in your head and being ruled by your ego. The ego is very challenging, so it takes a lot of work and concentration.
WHAT’S THE BEST ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE TO YOUNG DRUMMERS?
Enjoy what you do, so that it doesn’t become a job.
Try to play a chordal instrument as well, so you can know exactly where you are in the music and contribute better from that standpoint.
BEN WEBSTER WAS A GREAT PIANO PLAYER.
There were a lot of drummers that were good piano players: Kenny Clarke, Max Roach and Philly Joe Jones.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BE REMEMBERED FOR?
(long pause) I hope I gave some people joy and helped them feel better.
WHAT’S THE BEST ADVICE YOUR FATHER OR SOMEONE ELSE GAVE YOU?
That would go back to that quote by Miles, “Always be prepared to play what you don’t know”.
MR. DEJOHNETTE IS PRESENTLY ON TOUR WITH GARRISON AND COLTRANE, WITH AN UPCOMING GIG AT UCLA JUST AROUND THE CORNER. HIS MUSIC AND HIS ATTITUDE ON LIFE IS ALWAYS FULL OF SURPRISES, AND YET ALWAYS, AS IS CRITICAL FOR A DRUMMER, ON PERFECT TIME AND YET TIMELESS.