FEW SAXISTS SUCCESSFULLY WEAR AS MANY MUSICAL HATS AS TIM RIES. WHILE HE IS BEST KNOWN AS THE TENOR SAXIST FOR THE ROLLING STONES, HE HAS BUILT UP AN IMPRESSIVE JAZZ AND CLASSICAL CATALOG.
HIS 2008 RELEASE THE ROLLING STONES PROJECT WAS AN INSPIRED COLLECTION OF JAZZ’D UP STONES CLASSICS, BRINGING TOGETHER MEMBERS OF THE FAMED ROCK BAND WITH BOPPERS LIKE BRIAN BLADE, LARRY GOLDINGS, JOHN PATITUCCI AND BEN MONDER TO CREATE A FRESH SOUND FROM HITS FROM THE BABY BOOMER ERA.
BESIDES HIS WORK WITH THE CLASSICAL ENSEMBLE PRISM, HE’S ALSO RECENTLY RELEASED A RICHLY TEXTURED ALBUM LIFE CHANGES THAT BRINGS TOGETHER ARTISTS LIKE JACK DEJOHNETTE, BILL FRISELL, GREGOIRE MARET AND GOLDINGS FOR SOME OF THE MOST CREATIVE JAZZ HARMONIES AND THEMES YOU’LL HEAR ALL YEAR.
WE WERE ABLE TO CATCH UP WITH RIES BETWEEN GIGS WITH THE STONES, AND HE WAS ABLE TO IMPART IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR ALL ASPIRING MUSICIANS, AS WELL FOR MUSIC FANS.
YOU COME FROM A MUSICAL FAMILY. WHAT ATTRACTED YOU TO THE SAXOPHONE?
My dad was a trumpet player, so I first wanted to play what he did. I had a neighbor who played trumpet, my mom played piano and my sisters played piano, so there was always a lot of music in the house.
My dad had a dance band in Michigan (where I grew up), and every time he had a gig he’d bring the band back home, and my mother would cook, and they’d play music in the house all night. So, I was always around music; it was part of every weekend, for sure!
When I decided to play saxophone, he had a band with two saxophone players that were brothers. I remember watching the way that the saxophone player just sat there so relaxed, and I ‘d see my dad playing the trumpet and seeing his face get so red because the high notes were so difficult. I figured after looking at the sax player that I thought I’d go with that!
I was 8-9 years old, so he got me one for my birthday. I started practicing and he said, “If you’re going to practice, you’ve got to practice classically with a teacher. I started getting involved with a University of Michigan youth program, so I was going to Ann Arbor every weekend in 7th grade, taking lessons from some great teachers like Larry Thiele, who taught Joe Henderson, and I studied classical with him.
I started playing in dance bands. Before I could drive, my dad would take me to the clubs in Detroit and Ann Arbor and would sit in. It was a great environment in which to grow up.
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“If you want to really do this you have to practice hard; it’s not something that comes easily”
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WHAT WAS THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE GAVE YOU ABOUT BEING A MUSICIAN WHEN GROWING UP?
Well, my dad had a day job, since there were four kids in our house and played during weekends on the side. He wanted to play music, so he pushed me hard, saying “If you want to really do this you have to practice hard; it’s not something that comes easily. There’s a lot of competition.
So I knew at an early age that to get to a high level it takes a lot of time practicing. In a sense I lived his dream, making a living playing music.
It was funny; he would never compliment me, or say “That sounds great.” My mother would say “That sound really good” and I could hear from the next room her tell him to encourage him. But he’d answer “ I know what it takes, and if I start say he’s sounding good he’s not going to practice .“
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“at some point you have to become your own voice…it’s not easy to do, and it takes years, even a lifetime, to keep striving to continue having your own voice”
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YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN A TEACHER. WHAT IS THE BIGGEST POINT YOU TRY TO EMPHASIZE?
To be yourself.
You have to be inspired by the Great Masters who came before you, emulate them and transcribe their solos, but at some point you have to become your own voice.
That’s the reason they became so successful. It’s a bit less now than it was back then, that “oh, can you sound like this person or do that guy” rather than “what is your own individual voice?”
It’s not easy to do, and it takes years, even a lifetime, to keep striving to continue having your own voice. When Ornette Coleman came out sounding like he did, it was a unique sound, no one else was doing it and a lot of people hated it because it was so different. Yet, he stayed with what his beliefs were and created a whole new scene.
I UNDERSTAND THAT MYSELF, AS I LOVE PRACTICING LESTER YOUNG SOLOS, BUT EVENTUALLY YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF “AM I LESTER YOUNG, OR AM I ‘ME’?”
That’s the whole point. I still listen to those great musicians like Lester Young and Wardell Gray; I was inspired by Coltrane, Dexter Gordon and Stanley Turrentine, Michael Brecker, Joe Henderson…everybody!
I listen to it, but I have to stop, because they are so powerful and you want to go at them so heavily, that it’s hard NOT to want to sound like one of the greats. That’s why it takes a lot of time and practice.
When I was young I was playing in (trumpeter) Donald Byrd’s band. At that time I was transcribing Coltrane and Wayne Shorter, and he said “Ries, you’ve got to do your own thing. You’ve got to record yourself and transcribe your own (stuff). That’s what ‘Trane did.” That’s when I started recording a lot of my own playing. Everyday I would record and listen back, pick things that I liked about my playing and try to develop my own mind and sound. That advice helped a lot; create your own thing.
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“(Donald Byrd told me) “you’ve got to do your own thing. You’ve got to record yourself and transcribe your own (stuff)'”
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AND WHEN YOU LISTEN TO YOURSELF, IT IS VERY HUMBLING!
It’s the hardest thing to do. I listen and think “Oh, man; I have a long way to go!”
I’m sure all musicians are the same. You pick apart every single part of yourself.
YOU’VE BEEN IN BANDS WITH THE LIKES OF PHIL WOODS AND TOM HARRELL. WAS THERE EVER A GIG THAT WAS A BAPTISM BY FIRE FOR YOU?
The first professional gig I ever had was with Maynard Ferguson, and that was a good starting point, as he was such an encouraging person. We got to play sometime seven nights a week for nine months of the year. I was on the road playing a different city every night.
We’d play the same material, but you had to figure out how to do your own thing.
He recorded every night, and on the bus after the gig he’d play the entire gig on the bus. It would be horror. You knew that you’d be at the third song in, and you’re sitting there dreading it as it’s coming up. But it was good, as it made you thing “I’ve got to be sure never to play that again as it was ridiculous.” That was a great lesson.
Playing with Donald Byrd was amazing, just to hang with him.
I did a tour with Phil Woods, I was on tenor and Nick Brignola on bari. I would play between these two incredible sounds. You could tell he was in a big band as he was a fantastic lead alto; his phrasing and sound was wonderful.
I was subbing for Joe Lovano when I joined Tom Harrell’s band. Every gig I learned something watching him.
YOU SEEM TO HAVE THREE DIVERSE MUSICAL WORLDS. YOU HAVE THE JAZZ BONAFIDES, YOU PLAY BLUES/ROCK SAX WITH THE ROLLING STONES, AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THIS LESSER KNOWN STYLE OF CLASSICAL MUSIC WITH PRISM.
DO YOU DO THESE TO KEEP YOUR MIND EXPLORING, OR IS PRISM MORE A RETURN TO YOUR CLASSICAL ROOTS?
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“People eventually hire you because of who you are, your sound and style, and they want that in their music, whatever that is”
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After getting my bachelors (degree), at the University of Michigan I got my Masters Degree from the great Donald Centa, who was a great classical saxist. That’s all I was studying; I was taking classical composition lessons.
My roommate at the time, Matt Levy, was a founding member of PRISM, and he asked me to replace the soprano sax player, and I was happy to do it. I was with them for ten years and it was great. We had a lot of material and very challenging; a lot like playing in a string quartet. Rehearsals were hours and hours long working on each detail and the intonation. It kicked my ass in a great way.
Playing with Marie Schneider was similar. I took the sound I had achieved in my classical training, and she wrote a lot for my soprano. She wrote a lot of classical form me, she’d write specifically for people in the band, so I did a lot of soprano and flute work with her.
I also play with a gypsy group in Budapest. I’m interested in all kinds of music.
It’s like what we were saying before; I try to be myself in all of those kind of contexts. Even though I may be playing different genres I can still have my own voice within it.
People eventually hire you because of who you are, your sound and style, and they want that in their music, whatever that is.
YOU EVEN DID FADO WITH ANA MOURA
I love that style, and I do my best to stay true to the music and to the form that is being played while also being true to myself and to my sound.
I wonder what Billie Holiday or Ella Fitzgerald would do in a different style or genre, such as fado.
There was the saxophone player Don Byas, who in the 50s that did material of the great fado singer Amalia Rodriguez, and it inspired me.
WHAT WAS THE MOST CHALLENGING STUDIO RECORDING FOR YOU TO DO?
When David Lee Roth did his Just A Gigolo album, my drummer friend Greg Bissonette got the touring gig. I had just moved to New York, and Greg called me that “we’re going to have a big band for the album. Can you put it together when we come to New York?”
I said OK, but I didn’t know that many people, so I called a couple of guys like Lew Soloff and Jon Faddis, a bunch of A Team guys. The problem was that I had no idea what “contracting” meant, so that was like being immediately thrown into the fire.
It was fun, but it was challenging because I didn’t know what I was doing. Getting 15 horn players and making it look good for the union!
YOUR RECENT ALBUM HAS TO HAVE BEEN EXCITING TO PUT TOGETHER, AS IT HAS SOME BIG NAMES.
This most recent album Life Changes was the first time I ever played with Jack DeJohnette, and that was challenging. I thought I was going to be nervous, but he was so relaxed and encouraging. With every playback he’d say, “That was great; let’s try this” and so on. He was like the cool uncle. That was one of my most positive sessions.
And of course, Bill Frisell is so cool. I’ve known Larry Goldings for years and Gregoire Maret was one of my students. My wife is on it and my daughter, who was eleven at the time, so there was a real family feeling there.
THERE IS EVEN ONE SONG WHERE YOU SIT OUT.
Gregoire plays harmonica and my wife Stacy plays harp on a track. I’m a Stevie Wonder freak, and he did a version of “It’s Magic” and I wanted that sound with those two instruments. There’s another one where my daughter sings a lullaby I wrote for one of my twins.
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“With drummers you don’t know it’s coming but you are so happy about the surprise and dialogue they create with you. Jack is maybe the greatest about that”
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BESIDES DEJOHNETTE, YOU’VE PLAYED WITH SOME HEAVY DRUMMERS LIKE BILL STEWART AND BILLY HART. CAN A DRUMMER TRIP YOU UP? IN OTHER WORDS, WHO DO YOU LOCK IN WITH WHEN YOU’RE PLAYING?
That’s a good question with those drummers. There’s a “New York Thing” about drummers. With drummers like Bill, Billy and Jack, you let them do their thing and then be confident enough in yourself to know this certain phrase is happening , that they may phrase it in such a different way when they are setting you up. It’s not a typical feel when you know it’s coming. In a big band, they let you know your phrase is coming, but with drummers you don’t know it’s coming but you are so happy about the surprise and dialogue they create with you. Jack is maybe the greatest about that.
What ever you are playing, he’s half overpowering you, but wherever you go, he’s right there with you riding that wave; you hit it and he’s still pushing you further.
Since then I’ve played on some of his recordings. In hindsight on this recording I think I should have trusted him more as he was just out there for me. He was just inviting me to go ever further.
It’s like the invitation of “Do your thing; go as far as you can and don’t be scared to jump of the ledge cause we’ll catch you.”
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“Hey, technique is great, but what is it that we can create together?”
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I THINK THAT’S THE ALLURE OF JAZZ. YOU HAVE TO REALLY LISTEN TO EACH OTHER IN A WAY LIKE NO OTHER MUSIC
No question. It is paramount that you have that sense of the chord is happening, and that’s going to affect the way you play your next line and how the drummer is doing something and then everyone leaving space for something to happen. You have to let the growth happen within the group.
That’s the human element of jazz. But, it seems like today that has been lost. Hey, technique is great, but what is it that we can create together?
HOW DID YOU GET THE ROLLING STONES SAX JOB?
In New York I played many recordings with the horn section that was in the band: Mike Davis on trombone, Kev Smith on trumpet and Andy Snitzer on sax, along with Bobby Keys. Andy got the gig with Paul Simon, and they knew I played sax and keyboards, so the said, “You want the gig?” and that was it!
It was a call from out of nowhere.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE SWITCHING GEARS TO BE IN A ROCK BAND?
It’s still about being true to the music. I listened to all their songs when I got the gig, and I made my own Fake Book for their music. I just worked on fitting in with the section, and Bobby did the solos.
As the years passed I still felt I had to be true to these songs from 50 years ago. I’m not going to play something totally obscure, but in the 20 years that I’ve been with them they’ve said something once. They trust us.
DID YOU EVER PICK BOBBY KEYS’ BRAIN?
More than anything I’d listen to him every night and he had a thing. He’s been gone 4-5 years, God rest his soul. He had his own sound.
They had a horn section in the 70s, Even though there was a lot of saxophone in the 50s in the original rock thing with the tenor and baritone it there wasn’t a lot of it during that time before Bobby. It was cool that Mick and Keith liked the sax, and Bobby created these iconic sax solos.
He had a great sound. It got real thick at the end.
We were back stage on time, and he was playing this beautiful melody, like the old tenor players with that real soft sound. He said, “I wrote this song, and I want you to record it. Let’s do it together.“ Unfortunately it never happened. It was a beautiful jazz standard that he wrote. He had a great tone, and was quite a character.
YOUR OWN ALBUM OF STONES SONGS IS FANTASTIC. HOW WAS IT WITH THE SHOE ON THE OTHER FOOT, TELLING KEITH RICHARDS WHAT TO PLAY?
Man, Keith was incredibly cool. He just came in and played; totally giving of his time. He asked me what I thought and I said, “you sound great!”
I laid down one of his songs in Japan with a Japanese group and Israeli drummer and Keith came in New York for the session and played something beautiful; he overdubbed something and it was so wonderful I played something over it to create a beautiful moment of interplay. He was like a studio musician, asking, “Should we do another take?” He was gracious with his time.
We did a live track in LA with Keith, Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts, Daryl Jones and Larry Goldings and we just hit it, BOOM! I couldn’t believe it went down that easily.
WHAT DID HE THINK OF YOUR VERSIONS OF “PAINT IT BLACK” AND “STREET FIGHTING MAN”?
Those were the first tunes we recorded with Brian Blade, John Patitucci, Bill Charlap and Ben Monder. I thought that I’d better play them for Keith and Mick because I didn’t know what they’d think. I didn’t want to upset them and have them say “What are you doing with our music?!?”
So I played it for them, and Keith was playing along with it back stage. He was totally cool with it. I asked Charlie to join, and he was cool with it and said, “You should ask Keith.” Ronnie overheard it and said, “We’re all in mate; let’s do it.”
HOW DO YOU BALANCE YOUR MUSIC WITH A FAMILY LIFE?
It’s not easy. One of the things that helped was that I got close with James Moody the last few years of his life. I was on the road with him doing some gigs and was mentioning to him about being away from the family.
He said, “Tim-this is what you do. You have to do it.They’ll understand.” He was in his late 70s at the time. I figured James has been doing it all this time.
At the time my twins were quite young. I was about ready to go on a tour for four months. I was putting them to sleep and was reading them some books.
I was kind of feeling guilty about going away, and Told them I was leaving and said, “Is That OK?”
One of the twins said “Sure, as long as you keep coming back!”(laughs)
We sometimes put our Adult Vibe on it. I was the guy who goes away but always comes back.
When I’m home, I’m home a lot, like 6 weeks. I hang out and cook and hang out with the family. In some ways I’m with the family more in terms of hours. I’m a musician; I do what I do and you have to go to the mountain.
ANYTHING LIKE A BOOK RELIGION OR PHILOSOPHY THAT KEEPS YOU INSPIRED.
Yes to all of that. I read a lot of books, try to keep a positive vibe going and am a vegetarian. I try to keep healthy so I exercise a lot. I try to keep thinking about what musical pursuits do I want?
I feel that I’m a spiritual person with out a particular dogma; I feel that music is a great religion in itself as it brings people together. It’s a unifier.
I have a Peace Ensemble from different countries and I like bringing people together from different religions cultures and have them perform on stage.
ANY THING YOU GO TO MOST OFTEN?
I love Glen Gould’s version of Bach. Ellis Regina is one of my favorite artists. They both make me feel calm and relaxed. I also do a cross section of jazz, classical .
I like books on spirituality and philosophy.
WHAT GIVES YOU YOUR BIGGEST JOY IN LIFE ?
Knowing that I have healthy children and my own health. I was at a concert in Houston and backstage there was a man in a wheelchair, and he was so happy and upbeat and he kept saying everyone “Don’t let anyone take your joy away from you.” Be happy when you can wake up in the morning. It can always be worse. Even getting out of a chair is a blessing, and be able to play music at a high level with the greatest musicians in the world.
AND YOU ARE PASSING ON TO YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR DAD PASSED ON TO YOU
All of my kids are talented. I don’t know if they’ll go as deep into it as I have.
Fathers are always worried about their kids being happy and healthy, and you want what’s best for them, but ultimately you have to let them live their lives their own way
IS THERE A “COOLNESS FACTOR” WITH YOUR DAUGHTERS WITH YOUR STONES GIG?
At one point with my twins it was “Eh” when they were 7-8, but when they were around 12 they realized “this is not so bad.” Now they love to go to the concerts and want to get T-shirts from all of the places. They don’t go overboard but they understand who the Stones are.
DO YOU HAVE ANY FUTURE MUSICAL GOALS?
Just to get better; every day just get to a higher level.
IN THAT SENSE IT’S A LOT LIKE RELIGION IN WHICH A FINITE PERSON TRIES TO CONNECT WITH AN INFINITE. IN RELIGION IT’S GOD, IN MUSIC IT’S THE COUNTLESS NOTES AND PERMUTATIONS
That’s the thing about musicians; it’s never quite good enough. You can be happy about a particular gig, but you realize you could always do it better.
It’s not a selfish pursuit, but it’s just a desire to be better as a human being and a musician. It runs together
AS ALEX DE TOCQUEVILLE SAID, “SELF INTEREST, RIGHTLY UNDERSTOOD.”
Right!
IF IT’S TRUE THAT ‘A ROLLING STONE GATHERS NO MOSS’, THEN TIM RIES HAS PICKED THE RIGHT BAND TO GIG WITH. HIS HORN IS ABLE TO DELIVER A CORNUCOPIA OF SOUNDS THAT SATISFY BOTH THE ROCK FAN AND JAZZ SNOB, NO SMALL FEAT THESE DAYS. LIKEWISE, BALANCING CAREER AND FAMILY LIFE HAS BEEN A SUCCESSFUL TIGHTROPE WALK, WITH RIES BRINGING IN WIFE AND DAUGHTERS TO CELEBRATE SONGS ON THE MOST RECENT ALBUM.
CHECK OUT HIS RECENT ALBUM, AND IF YOU’RE LUCKY, YOU’LL MAYBE FIND HIM PLAYING AT EITHER A SMALL COZY JAZZ CLUB WITH HIS OWN BAND OR IN A BIG STADIUM WITH THE 70’S ROCKERS. EITHER WAY, IT WILL BE AN EVENING THAT WILL GIVE THE LISTENER, DARE WE SAY, SATISFACTION.