AT AN AGE AND STAGE OF HIS CAREER WHERE HE COULD EASILY BE RESTING ON HIS MANY LAURELS, JOE LOVANO KEEPS SEARCHING FOR NEW LANDS TO CONQUER. LIKE CALEB OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, HE IS STILL LOOKING FOR MOUNTAINS TO CONQUER INSTEAD OF STAYING IN THE MUSICAL DESERT.
HIS CAREER HAS BEEN FILLED WITH MUSICAL EXPERIMENTS AND FORAYS. HIS CLASSIC RUSH HOUR MELDED JAZZ WITH CLEVER STRINGS AND WOODWINDS, WHILE DELVING INTO THE MOODS OF CARUSO AND SINATRA DURING OTHER EXCURSIONS.
WITH A MARROW INFUSED WITH BEBOP AND INCULCATED WITH TOURS IN HIS EARLY CAREER WITH WOODY HERMAN’S BIG BAND, LOVANO HAS SUCCESSFULLY WALKED THE TIGHTROPE OF KEEPING A HEART IN THE TRADITION WITH A FOOT WALKING TOWARDS UNDISCOVERED LANDS. HE’S EVEN HAD SPECIAL SAXOPHONES CREATED IN ORDER TO FORMULATE NEW MUSICAL TONES.
HIS LATEST ALBUMS, TRIO TAPESTRY CONTINUES HIS MUSICAL PILGRIMAGE, FINDING LOVANO PLAYING NOT ONLY HIS TENOR SAX, BUT THE EXOTIC TAROGATO IN THE COMPANY OF INTUITIVE MATES CARMEN CASTALDI AND MARILYN CRISPELL. THE RESULT IS AN INTIMATE JOURNEY INTO MEDITATIVE AND CONTEMPLATIVE ROOMS. LIKEWISE, ROMA (LIVE IN ROME 2018) FINDS THE TAROGATO IN THE CONCERT COMPANY OF TRUMPETER ENRICO RAVA IN A SPIRITED QUINTET SETTING
WE RECENTLY HAD A NICE CONVERSATION WITH LOVANO, WHO GAVE INSIGHT INTO HIS PAST RECORDINGS, CAREER AND MUSICAL WORLD VIEW.
FIRST TIME I SAW YOU PLAY WITH THE RUSH HOUR TOUR WITH YOUR WIFE
Carmen Castaldi played drums for me then.
WHAT WERE THE BIGGEST THINGS YOU LEARNED FROM YOUR EARLY DAYS WITH HERB POMEROY AND GARY BURTON?
When I went to Berklee in 1971 right after high school, I was very aware of Gary Burton’s playing. Herb Pomeroy was a legendary trumpet player from being with Charlie Parker for a couple of records. John LaPorta was also there in Berklee; I was aware of him from the First Herd with Woody’s (Herman) band. He was such an amazing and modern clarinetist and saxophone player.
I had the chance to study with the three of those cats, and I was into concept that they were dealing with their own music, so it was really an amazing experience to play for them and feel their embrace as well as learn from their experiences of things.
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“I was 23 when I joined Woody’s band in ’76. It was amazing to be on the road. I was on the road for 2 ½ years, and we had a week of in the summer and a week of at Christmas. It was phenomenal.”
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THESE GUYS WERE OF THE FIRST BEBOP GENERATION, OR AS THEY SAY IN THE BIBLE, “THE TRIBE THAT KNEW JOSEPH”
Exactly. And with Herb, he had a “recording” big band and also another big band. I was not placed in the recording band, but the other one and it was a real experience to work with him.
*Just the way he passed out a chart, talked about it and had you look throughout your part before you even played a note. You learned what was in there just by studying it without even playing. That set me up for all of the things that I was going to encounter later with Woody’s band, with Mel Lewis’ band, Bob Brookmeyer, Gunther Schuller and all of things that I experienced first hand as a leader. That’s the main thing I really got out of both class and ensemble with him, as well as playing some very challenging music.
MOST OF TODAY’S MUSICIANS HAVE MISSED OUT PLAYING IN BIG BANDS. WHAT WAS THE BENEFIT OF THE BIG BAND EXPERIENCE FOR YOU?
My generation was the last one that if you were inclined to be in that setting where you could really be those leaders like Herman. Those masters like Buddy Rich, Maynard Ferguson, Count Basie. Ellington passed in ;74, but those later years had his son Mercer leading the band. Thad Jones lead the Basie band so there were things happening throughout the 80s and into the 90s.
I was 23 when I joined Woody’s band in ’76. It was amazing to be on the road. I was on the road for 2 ½ years, and we had a week of in the summer and a week of at Christmas. That was it. We had itineraries of one-nighters all over the place in Europe and the States. It was phenomenal.
At that time Lionel Hampton’s band, Buddy Rich and the Basie band were all on tour like that. We played opposite a lot of groups.
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The Stan Kenton band and Woody did everything to create the jazz educational world that is happening today.
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YOU LEARN HOW TO FIT IN WITH OTHER MUSICIANS IN A BIG BAND SETTING.
You have to share their space (laughs) and share the stage with a host of outstanding players. Woody as a leader was great because he featured everybody.
When I joined the band it was his 40th year anniversary. That November we played in Carnegie Hall and recorded for RCA. I found myself at the microphone playing my part with Stan Getz playing lead on “Early Autumn.” Jimmy Giuffre, Flip Phillips, Al Cohn, Zoot Sims were all there as well as the Condoli brothers, Don Lamond on drums and Chubby Jackson on bass. It was an amazing event. It was a springboard for a lot of things for me.
With Woody, it was also my first time addressing a forum of students. We’d do colleges and high schools; this was before the IAJE and all that. None of the schools we played at had a jazz program; now they all do.
That was the beginning of all that. The Stan Kenton band and Woody did everything to create the jazz educational world that is happening today.
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“It’s all about the spirit and the legacy within the history of the music”
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A PROFESSIONAL DOCTOR HAS TO GO TO CONTINUING EDUCATION FOR A NUMBER OF HOURS EACH YEAR TO KEEP HIS LICENSE ACTIVE AND LEARN WHAT’S NEW IN THE FIELD.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU GET “EDUCATED” BY EXPERIMENT WITH ESOTERIC INSTRUMENTS AND TRY EXOTIC TYPES OF MUSIC WITH A WIDE RANGE OF MUSICIANS, MAKING EACH ALBUM UNIQUE.
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“When you have relationships with people that are for real, like that, you don’t want to repeat yourself. Every one of my recordings was a springboard into the next.”
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Since the ‘70s, I live in an amazing community of musicians in New York. A multi-generational, multi-cultural world. To be a part of that all of these years, and to play with musicians from all over the place and with different backgrounds and then to be a part of ensembles with masters as leaders like Charlie Haden and Paul Motian, Elvin Jones, Thad Jones and Bob Brookmeyer…you’re constantly stimulated to create new music all the time.
You’re dealing with folks that are not in a commercial world of music. It’s all about the spirit and the legacy within the history of the music, to embrace those things.
For the last 5-8 years I’ve been closely associated with Wayne Shorter, for example. I just played at the Kennedy Center in honor of Wayne.
During Wayne’s 80th year, my band Soundprints with Dave Douglas toured a lot with him. It was amazing to be around him, and then he wrote some music for us to play.
When you have relationships with people that are for real, like that, you don’t want to repeat yourself. Every one of my recordings was a springboard into the next.
SO IT’S THE BANDS AND PROJECTS THAT KEEP YOU GROWING AND SEARCHING NEW LANDS.
I had three consecutive record deals with Blue Note. From 1991 to 2013. I did 5-6 recordings for Blue Note outside of my contract. During that whole time I was able to establish an amazing catalogue of documented music and also establish some ensembles. My Nonet is an ongoing thing. The group US Five with the double drummers is ongoing.
For Charlie Parker’s 100th birthday anniversary we’re going to do a lot of gigs coming off of my recording Birdsongs with Us Five. My quartets and trios are all different settings.
This latest recording Trio Tapestry is an extension and study in the concepts of improvising together with the trio, like a tapestry. With Marilyn Crispell and Carmen Castaldi we touch on some real intimate music in a real peaceful and meditative way. Not aggressive.
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“it’s all about music within the music on each piece”
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IT’S ALMOST LITURGICAL
We’re listening and following the sound. We’re developing ideas within each piece so that it’s all about music within the music on each piece. The communication and the personality of this is really beautiful.
THIS ALBUM IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF YOUR EXPERIMENTATION WITH EXOTIC INSTRUMENTS, AS YOU PLAY THE EASTERN EUROPEAN TAROGATO.
It’s an instrument from Hungary and Romania.
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“I was just going for the purity and spiritualness within the instrument”
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SO, DO YOU FIND AN INSTRUMENT AND THEN CREATE A VEHICLE FOR IT, OR VICE VERSA?
I was aware of the tarogato and that folk music from the Balkans. Through the years I’d always been looking for an instrument and never found one.
Until I played in Budapest with the Saxophone Summit with Dave Liebman and Michael Brecker. From that first record Gathering of Spirits we did a big tour. We played in Budapest in 2003. Friends came to the gig, and Liebman had a friend that brought all of these instruments to a sound check. There was a table full of flutes, wood flutes and little percussion instruments, along with a tarogato.
He played the tarogato for us. It sounded beautiful. He hung around after the gig and I ended up buying the horn from him. (laughs) I’ve been studying the instrument since then for the last 15 years, trying to write some music for it.
I wasn’t trying to play jazz or bebop with it. I was just going for the purity and spiritualness within the instrument
THAT’S LIKE THE SAME THING WITH RUSH HOUR. I PLAY THE CLARINET, AND I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT WHEN YOU CAME ON STAGE PLAYING THE ALTO CLARINET. NOBODY PLAYS THE ALTO CLARINET!!!
(laughs loudly) Well, I hope I convinced you that it’s a happening instrument (laughs). The alto clarinet is an amazing voice. It’s like the cello or viola, and you can approach the microphone like you’re playing the tenor. You don’t have to change anything.
It projects with the rhythm section, easier than with a bass clarinet. In concert the bass clarinet is not as effective. In the studio the bass clarinet is amazing, of course. But with the alto clarinet, live, you can really play with a drummer.
THESE INSTRUMENTS SERVE AS A STIMULUS, SUCH AS THE STRAIGHT ALTO, THE STRAIGHT TENOR SAX AND THEN THAT UNIQUE AUTOCHROME. YOU’RE FASCINATED BY SOUNDS.
Totally, man. And the spirit that happens in each instrument.
That autochrome; that’s the only instrument on the planet. There’s one horn. Francois Louis, the Belgian inventor has known me since the early 80s. I play on handmade wooden mouthpieces that Francois made for me.
He had a commission for Brussels 2000 to make the horn. Adolph Sax was Belgian, so they were celebrating Sax, so Francois had an idea to create a horn that could harmonize within itself. It took him almost two years to make the horn.
He got bodies, and he had to punch all of the holes and make all of the mechanisms work, which is a very ingenious and incredible contribution to the development of the saxophone… One mouthpiece with two chambers…and each key is split in two.
YOU USED IT ON THE COLTRANE TRIBUTE WITH LIEBMAN, COMPASSION.
Yep, and I’ve recorded it on a bunch of things. It’s an amazing life force within itself. That whole instrument is a whole study. I had it for about 5-6 years, I then brought it back to Belgium for Adolphe Sax’s 200th year anniversary a few years ago. Francois has it now and he’s showing it in the Adolphe Sax museum. I miss it!
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“There are so many wizards out there today and there’s so much happening that there ain’t nothing happening”
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WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR WHEN YOU LISTEN TO A SAX PLAYER?
I listen for the feeling of how he’s playing; not the technique. There are so many wizards out there today and there’s so much happening that there ain’t nothing happening. I heard Lou Donaldson say that about some drummers, and it applies to today’s situation.
I listen for the expression and the feeling in the deep. Also the melodic invention.
WHAT HOBBIES DO YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOURSELF BALANCED?
I love to golf and swim. We live in property in the woods near West Point. I’m out in the woods a lot in nature. Deep breathing is what it’s all about (laughs).
ANY BOOKS, RELIGIONS OR PHILOSOPHIES THAT INSPIRE YOU?
Nature in itself just captures you, if you go for a walk and it’s not just for exercise. That’s really inspiring for me.
My travels take me around the planet, and I embrace all cultures and museums everywhere. I dig the natural beauty wherever I am. If I’m in the Orient, the Middle East , the Balkan states or Sicily where all of my grandparents are from I love the amazing richness of their cultures.
I try to explore all of those things all of the time. You carry those things with you wherever you go.
WHAT DID YOU MEAN WHEN YOU WROTE IN THE LINER NOTES TO CROSS CULTURE “EVERYONE IS LEADING AND FOLLOWING”?
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“I go hear groups play today and I hear them read; I don’t hear them play”
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When you play together, and everyone plays with a sense of leading the phrasing and leading the piece of music, others follow. If that level of communication is happening around the band, then you have music like The Miles Davis Quintet with Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter and Ron Carter. That particular quintet had them leading and following each other the whole time.
Coltrane’s band with Elvin Jones, McCoy Tyner and Jimmy Garrison. They were leading and following all of the time. Bill Evans’ trio with Paul Motian and Scott LaFaro. You’re listening to each other and are creating music together; you’re not just playing at the same time.
In a lot of music out here, there are a lot of cats playing at the same time, and it all fits together, but they’re not creating it spontaneously.
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“You’re listening to each other and are creating music together; you’re not just playing at the same time”
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I go hear groups play today and I hear them read; I don’t hear them play.
When I play a concert with any of my ensembles, people come and they’re going to hear us play and put it together as we move along.
This particular trio with Carmen and Marilyn has the music unfold, so I’m excited about the concerts coming up and develop into this music even more.
IT’S LIKE WHEN YOU PERFORM ON STAGE WITH YOUR WIFE JUDY SILVANO.
Judy and I do a lot of stuff together and she’s been an inspiration to me all of these years. She’s had roots in modern dance. She came to New York with the Alwin Nikolais and Murray Lewis School of Dance. We met in a circle of creative collaborations with modern dance and modern jazz. I was playing in a woodwind ensemble with Paul McCandless. His lady was dancing with Judy in a group; we collaborated and did some really amazing concerts.
Judy also sang with the Philadelphia Orchestra; she came to New York as a contemporary vocalist. She developed more in the jazz world, but just as an instrument and musician she was way deeper than I.
We fuel each other’s ideas.
WHAT LESSONS HAVE YOU LEARNED FROM MARRIAGE AND MUSIC
Gratitude; be patient. Embrace each other’s desires and dreams to make things happen together.
EMBRACE THE “OTHERNESS” OF YOUR SPOUSE.
Oh man. And it feeds you to be a better person.
WHEN ARE YOU HITTING LA?
We have some dates with Esperanza Spalding and Jack DeJohnette in April
LOVANO IS CURRENTLY TOURING THE WEST COAST WITH A BAND THAT TAKES THE AUDIENCE ON JOURNEYS TO SOUNDS OF THE PAST, PRESENT AND BEYOND. DON’T MISS THIS EXCITING TEAM, AS WELL AS HIS MOST RECENT ALBUM WITH IS ANOTHER THREAD IN LOVANO’S RAPHAEL TAPESTRY OF SOUNDS.
www.joelovano.com