WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PIANISTS THAT ARE STILL LIVING ON GOD’S GREEN EARTH, RAMSEY LEWIS TENDS TO BE ONE OF THE FORGOTTEN MASTERS. AT ONE TIME, HE WAS THE MOST POPULAR JAZZ ARTISTS AROUND, HAVING A STRING OF ‘TOP TEN’ POPULAR HITS WITH HIS TRIO IN THE 60’S WITH “THE ‘IN’ CROWD,” “HANG ON SLOOPY” AND “WADE IN THE WATER.”
AS SO CRUELLY HAPPENS, ONCE A JAZZ ARTIST GETS WELL KNOWN, HE GETS ABANDONED BY ‘THE JAZZ POLICE’ AND IS SENT TO THE CORNER OF THE ROOM, NEVER TO BE TAKEN ‘SERIOUSLY’ AGAIN UNTIL HE REPENTS OF HIS SIN OF POPULARITY. REGARDLESS, LEWIS HAS CARVED OUT A CAREER WITH POPULAR RADIO HITS IN THE 60S AND WAS ALSO PART OF THE ‘FUSION’ SCENE IN THE 70S WITH HIS SMOKING ‘SUN GODDESS’ ALBUM WITH EARTH, WIND AND FIRE STAR MAURICE WHITE.
LATELY, LEWIS TOURED AROUND THE STATES WITH JOHN PIZZARELLI IN A TRIBUTE TO ANOTHER JAZZ ARTIST WHO GAINED MASS APPEAL, NAT KING COLE. EVEN BETTER, HIS LATEST ALBUM, TAKE ANOTHER LOOK, HAS THE 4 SCORED VETERAN RETURNING TO HIS ‘SUN GODDESS’ ALBUM AND LOOKING AT THE SONGS WITH NEW EYES AND FINGERS.
WE RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH THE JAZZ LEGEND, AS HE GAVE INSIGHTS TO HIS MUSIC, UPBRINGING AND OUTLOOK ON WHAT MAKES A TRULY SUCCESSFUL LIFE ON THIS EARTH AND BEYOND.
YOUR LATEST ALBUM IS ACTUALLY A REVISITATION OF THE CLASSIC “SUN GODDESS” ALBUM. WHAT WAS YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND THIS PROJECT?
That’s why we called it “Take Another Look” because there were certain songs that I wrote and/or recorded along the way, and I thought I’d explore them one more time to see how I felt about them musically at this point in time. And of course, with another group, seeing what they would add to it, as they’d drop their two cents here and there. I’m rather pleased with it.
LET’S GO BACK TO 1974. HOW DID THE ORIGINAL ALBUM, “SUN GODDESS,” COME ABOUT ?
Sun Goddess almost didn’t happen as an album. We had already recorded the album; actually I had already started recording “an” album. I didn’t know what it was going to be. We just went in and started recording some tunes.
Maurice White gave me a call. At that point he had left my trio; he had been gone 3-4 years and had 2-3 huge hit records. He had just played Madison Square Garden in New York, and he says “Ramsey, I’ve got this song and it’s going to be bigger than “ The ‘In’ Crowd.” I said, “What are you talking about?” He told me “I guarantee it. Me and Phillip Bailey, Verdeen (White) and a couple of guys can stop by in Chicago (I was in a recording studio there at the time) if you want and put it down for you.”
And they did. They stopped in Chicago and spent a couple of days recording this tune because he wanted it just right. He wanted to put voices on it, more percussion, then less percussion, then more again. When we finished it I asked him “What are you going to call it?” He said, “Hot Dawgit” and theat was it.
Then as we were all packing up, ready to leave he said, “Whoa! I’ve got this other melody. It’s a nice melody. We don’t have a bridge to it; we don’t have an ending. It’s just a nice melody with a nice Brazilian/R&B feel to it. What do you think of this?” and he played it. I thought, that’s really nice! Let’s do it! He said, “To lengthen the song, let’s state the melody, have people solo and then state the melody again to give the song some body. So there are two tunes for you!”
So, we did that. But then when we got through recording that, he said once again “we need some voices for it.” But I told him “We don’t have any words for it. I’m not a lyrics guy; I can’t help you.” They were leaving for California the next day, so he said, “Tell you what; I’ll go in. Me and Phillip. We’ll just say “Way-oh, Way-oh.” I told him “All right. That will work.”
That’s what they did. They went in over the melody and did that “Way-Oh” and then said, “Don’t worry; this one’s for jamming.” When I asked him what he was going to name this one, he just said, “Let’s call it ‘Sun Goddess.’ It’s a jam session song; the hit song for commercial radio is “Hot Dawgit” so don’t worry about ‘Sun Goddess.’ That’s just an album tune, a filler. It’s eight minutes long. Nobody’s going to play it because it’s too long for radio.” Back in those days, if a song was over 3 minutes, 3 and a half at the MOST, you weren’t going to get any air play.
So Columbia Records put the single out. “Hot Dawgit” was on the play list for the radio and it fell off after about two weeks. No response. No nothin’. But the album was selling, because there were a lot of radio stations that were playing the album cut of “Sun Goddess” and people were buying it for that song. Columbia then made a single version of “Sun Goddess.” Some radio stations played the short version of the song, but many stations played the whole album cut, and people were buying it. They were selling the album like hot cakes. It was selling like a hit single record itself.
It was a special time, because we had already experienced having a ‘hit’ record with “The ‘In’ Crowd” and “Wade in the Water” and Maurice knew that, because he was on “Wade in the Water.”
WHEN YOU HAD MAURICE WHITE IN YOUR BAND, DID YOU FEEL HE WAS DESTINED FOR SOMETHING REALLY POPULAR LIKE EARTH, WIND AND FIRE?
Maurice’s contributions to my band were all musical. His bag of tricks were wide and varied because he was a drummer around Chicago and had played not only with jazz guys but blues guys like Howlin’ Wolf and Little Walter. His personality was a quiet personality; he is still a quiet personality. His laugh is a quiet laugh, and when he chuckles, it’s about the most you’re going to get out of him. He’s not going to crack up and fall on the floor. That’s not Maurice White.
So, in fact, when Maurice told me (he had been with me 3-4 years), he said “Ramsey, in two months I’m going to leave and go to California. I’m going to form my own group.” I said, “All right. Are you going to form a trio, quintet or a sextet?”
“Oh, no, no, no. We’re going to have vocals, do magic and do R&B and we’re gonna dance…” I told him that he should take a couple of aspirin and calm down. I couldn’t conceive of what he was talking about. Lo and behold…he didn’t bring the group from Chicago the exact same group that he put together in California. There were 2 or 3 guys still in the group, and of course, he did exactly what he said he was going to do.
AND YOUR NEW ALBUM, TAKE ANOTHER LOOK, HAS A STRONG EARTH WIND AND FIRE FEEL TO IT.
Yes, well, it’s a reverse influence. (laughs)
YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW ARTISTS WHO HAVE HAD THAT OXYMORONIC PHRASE “JAZZ HIT.” WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF “CROSSOVER JAZZ” OR “SMOOTH JAZZ”?
“Smooth jazz” is just a label. Most so-called “smooth jazz” musicians went by the way of wherever, because the original musicians of that label, Al Jarreau, Grover Washington Jr, Joe Sample, Ramsey Lewis..we did things the way we did them, and we came from the straight-ahead jazz field. And you can’t bypass that field. Too many during that so-called “smooth jazz” period-that was just a label some guy in Madison Avenue came up with for the radio stations. There weren’t a group of us musicians who called ourselves “smooth jazz” musicians.
I never care about labels. I know what I did, and I know how I play. I know my audience and I sold records. When people, reviewers or critics that it’s “crossover” or this or that, more power to them. Whatever they want to call it. It’s ok for me.
NAT KING COLE WAS A CROSSOVER ARTIST
Exactly. Anyone who sold records was “crossing over.” I gotta tell you; there were certain jazz critics in those days that were supporters of ours throughout the first 15-16 albums. I think “The ‘In’ Crowd was the 17th album. Up through the 16th album, they were supportive of us, and we were “a breath of fresh air on the jazz scene” and this, that and the other.
We put out the 17th album, and put this song on it “The ‘In’ Crowd.” We didn’t know what it was going to do. If we did know, we would have put it on our first album! But, because it was on the 17th album, these critics go “Argh! Ramsey’s sold out! ‘
I didn’t know what they were talking about. But from that point on, those critics wouldn’t review our records, or if they did they saw me differently. But I was the same Ramsey Lewis, and that’s OK.
WELL, THE ULTIMATE CROSSOVER WAS JESUS CHRIST, CROSSING OVER TO BECOME GOD IN THE FLESH TO SAVE US.
There you go! (laughs)
THAT’S A NICE SEGUE FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT YOUR CHURCH UPBRINGING, AND HOW IT INFLUENCED YOU AS A MAN AND MUSICIAN
I’m sitting at home, nine years old, minding my own business. I’ve started taking piano lessons already, and after the first few lessons I didn’t want to take them anymore. I didn’t know about the practice part; you had to practice. Once a week, I’d take a lesson, and the piano teacher told my dad and mom, “Ramsey’s got talent ; he’s got to stick with it.”
But I was only studying Back and Beethoven up till then. My dad said, “OK. You’re going to start playing for the church’s Gospel Choir. “ So, when you’re nine years old, and your dad says you’re going to do something, you DO IT! (laughs) Back in my time, anyway. So, we’re going to choir rehearsal on Thursday and play for the church on Sunday from then on.
What did I learn? I learned that when you play in an African-American church, the music has to move people. I noticed with my dad, that if there was a song that he chose to perform, if it didn’t get the response from the congregation that he thought it would, he would change it during the next rehearsal. “We gotta do this; we gotta do that.” It’s all about the music reaching out to people. It’s not about standing up on your feet or not. You can just tell if people have been touched, if you will.
That kind of stayed with me. No matter if I’m playing something from the bebop era, or the post-bop era or from The Great American Songbook, you’re not doing anything unless you reach out and touch them. You can stay in your hotel room or house if you don’t take into consideration that people have paid a couple bucks to come and see you, so you want to put the music in the best light.
HOW HAS YOUR FAITH INFLUENCED YOUR CAREER?
You’ve got to believe in yourself and that there’s a Higher Power. You don’t have to broadcast it. Believe in the goodness of people, even throughout the fact that on TV and newspapers you see the struggles that people have just trying to fight against oppression and repression and make a life for themselves. There’s a brighter day.
DO YOU STILL GO TO CHURCH OR READ THE BIBLE?
Yes. I go to church when I can. As you know, the work I do has me playing on the weekends. So, if I’m not playing on Sunday, I’m travelling or coming home on Sunday, and church is over.
YET, YOU’VE ALSO RETURNED TO GOSPEL MUSIC WITH SOME RECENT ALBUMS
It never leaves you. Once you feel The Spirit, and you understand The Spirit, where He comes from and how He works throughout people in situations, in church and other places, it stays with you.
HOW DID YOU GET TO CARRY THE OLYMPIC TORCH?
That was purely an invitation. Somebody called me. I think it was someone from the Ravinia Festival who called and said “It’s coming through Chicago and how would you like to be the guy to carry the torch from point A to point B?” I told them it would be an honor and a privilege, so they sent me the uniform, and there I was!
DID YOU EVER ASK THEM WHY THEY SELECTED YOU?
I never asked them that.
YOU DO HAVE THE BODY OF A TRACK RUNNER.
Funny you should say that. I ran track in school. I ran the high jump and the 60 yard dash in high school. You’re the first person to ask about my track days!
WHY DID YOU WANT TO BE A DISC JOCKEY?
It’s not that I wanted to be, and please call me a “radio personality” (laughs). I had a new album called “Tequila Mockingbird.” I was out pushing the album, and Columbia Records told me to go onto the station that Yvonne Daniels was on. Yvonne Daniels had “drive time” radio, and she played really good music.
So I took the album there and she played the record, and she said “Come back anytime.” So I did once or twice, because she and I would get into conversations like “What do you think I should play next?” She would bring some her own lps (this was back in the day)and she’d say “What do YOU want to play?” and we’d play it and talk about it on the radio.
After one of these visits, which wasn’t that often, the station manager said “Have you ever thought about doing your own show? You and Yvonne should do your own show” I told him “But I’m touring.”He told me “You and Yvonne can come in, tape the show on Tuesday or whenever, and we’ll run the show on the weekends. It was called “Jazz, Ramsey and Yvonne.”
We did it for 3-4 years and it was great, but Yvonne died. So, he came in and asked if I wanted to continue. So I did it for several weeks, just myself, and he asked me “How’d you like to tape a show for “Morning Drive”? I asked how I’d do that, as that is a three hour show. He said that they can put the music and commercials in later; they could just have me do the talking, etc. “Let’s give it a try!”
He was right; I’d come in Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday and do a few hours at the station, and lo and behold I was doing “Morning Drive” and that went on for many years.
SO, A 15 YEAR OLD KIDS COMES TO YOU AFTER A CONCERT AND ASKS YOU HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL. WHAT DO YOU TELL HIM?
Practice, practice, practice. Ask around to find out who the best teacher is and get lessons from that teacher. That’s just the beginning. After that, practice, practice, practice.
HOW DO YOU GET A “HIT”? HOW DOES HE MAKE JAZZ POPULAR?
Jazz is an extension of one’s self. What kind of attitude you have towards people and towards the music. You have people nowadays that are not particular about a hit record. The style of jazz is a bit more avant garde and more experimental. If their crowd is big enough for them to be able to do certain things and make a living, then they’re happy with that.
But you have to decide on who you are, and what kind of music you want to project to people, but it still goes back to “practice, practice, practice.”
ETERNAL QUALITIES SUCH AS FAITH, RESPECT, HARD WORK AND INTEGRITY BUBBLE OVER RAMSEY LEWIS’ LIFE AND CAREER. FROM HIS DAYS PLAYING IN CHURCH, TO PLAYING JAZZ FOR JUST A FEW OR FOR THOUSANDS, AS WELL AS BEING AN EVANGELIST OF MUSIC AS WELL AS HIS FAITH, LEWIS HAS STAYED A FAITHFUL COURSE IN FOLLOWING HIS MUSICAL PATH, AS WELL AS HIS SPIRITUAL PILGRIMAGE. IT IS LIVES LIKE THIS, AND NOT JUST IN THE MUSICAL SENSE, THAT SERVES AS AN INSPIRATION TO YOUNGER GENERATIONS, AS HE LITERALLY CARRIES THE TORCH FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW.