LET’S BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES.
WE ALL WANT TO BE ACCEPTED AND ‘LIKED’ BY OTHERS. DON’T SOCIAL MEDIA SITES LIKE INSTAGRAM AND FACEBOOK PROVE THAT POINT.
SO WHAT DO YOU DO IF YOU FIND OUT YOU DON’T FIT IN? DO YOU COMPROMISE, OR CONTINUE ON YOUR SOJOURN.
ALTO SAXIST DAVE KOZ HAS DEALT WITH THAT TENSION FOR MOST OF HIS LIFE. HIS STYLE OF JAZZ, LABELED ‘SMOOTH’, IS DENIGRATED BY THE JAZZ POLICE, YET HE CONTINUES ON HIS PATH. SO MUCH SO THAT HIS MOST RECENT ALBUM, JUST US, IS AS HONEST A REFLECTION OF HIS CRAFT AS ANYTHING I’VE HEARD IN THE PAST 10 YEARS.
IT’S A SERIES OF DUETS WITH PIANO LEGEND BOB JAMES, AS UNPOLISHED, UNFILTERED AND UN-CANNED AS A MUSICAL MEETING CAN BE. THE COLLECTION OF ORIGINALS AND STANDARDS IS THE EPITOME OF WHAT MUSICAL CONVERSATION ARE SUPPOSED TO SOUND LIKE, GOING BACK TO THE EARLIEST DAYS OF JAZZ WHEN GUITARIST EDDIE LANG CREATED SONATAS WITH VIOLINIST JOE VENUTI A HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
AVAILABLE IN CD, DOWNLOAD AND EVEN OLD SCHOOL VINYL, THE ALBUM IS SURE TO BE ONE OF THE TOP TEN RELEASES FOR THE YEAR.
I HAPPENED TO CATCH HIM IN CONCERT WITH JAMES, AND THE MUSICAL COMRADERY WAS SIMPLY INSPIRING.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT THIS PROJECT AS WELL AS HIS CAREER AND LIFE PROJECTION, AND LIKE THE LATEST ALBUM, THE TIME WAS INSPIRING.
YOU’RE A VALLEY BOY!
I grew up on Topeka Drive, perpendicular to Ventura Boulevard between Reseda and Winnetka in Tarzana. I went to Portola Jr. High and Taft High School
SO, IF YOU GREW UP GOING TO OVER ACHIEVING TAFT HIGH SCHOOL, AND IN A JEWISH FAMILY, YOU WERE TOLD YOU HAD THREE OPTIONS: EITHER A DOCTOR, A LAWYER OR A FAILURE! HOW DID YOUR PARENTS REACT TO YOU WANTING TO BE A MUSICIAN?
My dad was a dermatologist, and my mom was a pharmacist, so I did come from a full medical background! (laughs)
Very Jewish parents, “What’s your plan?”
I graduated UCLA in 1986, a mass communications major. I played music on the side, doing weddings, bar mitzvahs and fraternity parties in a band. I did a few recording sessions, but I was just basically bopping around without much direction.
On the day of my graduation, my parents looked at me and asked “Do you have anything planned here?”
I had nothing planned, so I made a deal with them.
They were supportive of my music; my older brother was a musician and was doing it. My sister as well. They were supportive of us having creative lives, but I could tell that they needed something from me. (laughs)
“Give me six months”, I said, “to see if I can get something going with music. If not, I’ll get a job in some capacity”
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“But what (is) me was just sinking my teeth into a great melody. That has been what became my calling card, and I’m grateful that I found it”
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WHAT STARTED THINGS OFF?
Two weeks after graduation I got a call from Bobby Caldwell, who was putting a new band together. I auditioned and got it.
From those gigs, Jeff Lorber came and saw Bobby. He was putting a band together , and the next thing I know, I’m signed to Capitol Records!
It really was a magic carpet ride, and 40 years later, I’m still developing and growing. I’m very grateful.
WHERE DID YOU GO TO BUY RECORDS AND DEVELOP YOUR TASTE?
There was a small store called Licorice Pizza to get most of my records in Tarzana. There was also a Wherehouse and that big store, Tower Records in Sherman Oaks. It depended on how deep I wanted to go.
My older brother was the guy that turned me on to so much music, as he was listening to everything. Progressive rock, jazz, Gino Vannelli and Michael Franks as well as Genesis and Jefferson Airplane. My sister had all of the horn bands going with Earth, Wind and Fire and Chicago. My parents were into jazz, so my childhood consisted of borrowing records from my family and playing them on my stereo
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“I’m used to it now, because I’ve been so beaten up by critics during the course of my career. At a certain point, you just have to tune it out, so it won’t matter anymore, and I just concentrate on making music that is an expression of me”
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I’VE SEEN YOU PLAY WITH YOUR “REGULAR BAND” AS WELL AS THIS RECENT FANTASTIC DUET WITH BOB JAMES.
I’M SURE THAT YOU REALIZE THAT IN JAZZ THERE IS THIS “PECKING ORDER”, WHERE THE ‘SMOOTH’ OR ‘CONTEMPORARY’ MUSIC THAT YOU, LORBER OR OTHERS LIKE THAT SEEM TO GET LOOKED DOWN UPON. YOU EVEN SAID DURING YOUR RECENT CONCERT THAT YOU DON’TH HAVE THE CHOPS, SO YOU WORK ON MELODY
DOES THIS CATEGORIZATION OF JAZZ GETTO YOU, OR HAVEYOU COME TO TERMS WITH THE JAZZ POLICE?
You have to know that there is a bias in jazz journalism against anything “smooth” or that has a contemporary feel to it
It’s strange, but I’m used to it now, because I’ve been so beaten up by critics during the course of my career. At a certain point, you just have to tune it out, so it won’t matter anymore, and I just concentrate on making music that is an expression of me.
*I never do anything for commercial reasons; this is just the music that is coming out of me.
There have been times where some of that flack and criticism stings. But it really helps to focus on what is really true for me in terms of musical expression.
That’s what makes this recording with Bob James so special. It’s basically pausing all of the other stuff that I’ve done all of this time (which I love ,appreciate and am really proud of) and getting a chance to really sink into a different side of my musicality. I know that it’s the same for him.
We have no safety net. It’s complete vulnerability and putting yourself out there. It’s really being naked, and there’s an excitement and joy. Both of us are genuinely frightened of this experience.
I’ve never been more nervous to put a set of shows together than I was for this, because it’s completely new. It’s completely new for both of us, and we’ve both been around for a long time
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“We have no safety net. It’s complete vulnerability and putting yourself out there. It’s really being naked, and there’s an excitement and joy. Both of us are genuinely frightened of this experience”
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DID YOU DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT TO PREPARE FOR THIS DUO RECORDING AND TOUR?
I don’t think that I could have prepared, because I didn’t know what everything was going to be until I got to Bob’s house for a week of rehearsal in Traverse City, Michigan.
Bob said “A week of rehearsal?!? Why do we need a week of rehearsal? I’ve never rehearsed a week for any tour!”
I said, “Something tells me we’re going to need this time”, and we used every available minute of our time together to practice. This was not just playing; it not just doing another show. This was really intense concentration for both of us and our parts.
I think that I need to acknowledge how much more is on his plate than mine. I’ve just got one note at a time to play; he’s got to be the drummer, and the bass player, and the guitar player, and the piano player. And he’s 85 years old!
The fact that he can do it all, and play that way so emotively. An 85 year old ***Bob James going out and playing this music “live” and willingly putting himself into this situation is an amazing symbolism of what is possible with the human spirit, and how much a creative life can keep you engaged for as long as you want to do it.
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“I’ve just got one note at a time to play; (Bob James) has got to be the drummer, and the bass player, and the guitar player, and the piano player. And he’s 85 years old!”
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IN CONCERT, YOU PLAYED BOTH STRAIGHT AND CURVED SOPRANO SAX, WHICH I’VE NEVER SEEN SOMEONE DO BEFORE. YOU’RE EITHER ONE OR THE OTHER. WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR SWITCHING AROUND?
I’ve been playing the curved soprano ‘live’ for decades, and I’m used to it. I think it was a choice years and years ago, because I didn’t love the way doing a wireless microphone on stage never satisfied me with a straight soprano. Where do I clip it on? Where does the microphone go?
Then I recently saw Eric Marienthal play a straight soprano with a mic and it sounded beautiful, so I knew that it was possible. Something changed with the mic-ing technique
The decision to use the straight soprano on this show was influenced by the music. The music got a little more classical in their compositions, especially the compositions that Bob wrote for this project. They’re kind of “contemporary classical” in how they’re regarded that the curved soprano just didn’t make it. Believe me, I tried it!
I kept hitting a wall with that instrument in a way that I felt what the melodies required, so I brought the straight soprano to Traverse City, where we recorded the album. It just seemed to fit better on those songs. I had to figure a way to bring it out in a “live” situation
My assistant Dave found the right placement for the microphone to get a sound out of the straight soprano that we were all happy with. The two saxes make very different sound. The curved soprano worked on some of the songs, but not everything.
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“Bob James going out and playing this music “live” and willingly putting himself into this situation is an amazing symbolism of what is possible with the human spirit, and how much a creative life can keep you engaged for as long as you want to do it”
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GETTING BACK TO THE BAD RAP OF “SMOOTH” PLAYERS. YOUR TONE WAS UNBELIEVABLY WARM, AND YOUR SOUND WAS BIG! HOW DO YOU WORK ON THAT
That’s very kind of you.
I look at my favorite players like Gerald Albright or Kirk Whalum like technicians. They are amazing musicians and great communicators of emotion. Yet, these are the guys who go into the room and practice long tones in order to push the saxophone forward.
I’ve never been one of those technical guys. I love playing, but I hate practicing! (laughs)
Telling me that I have a big fat tone is one of the nicest complements that anyone can give to me. Ultimately, playing on the saxophone has a personality stamp; you get ‘who they are’ very quickly by their sound. It’s not so much the notes that they play as the sound and the physicality of the player
You can put the same instrument, the same brand with the same mouthpiece and reed and put it in the hands of three different players and get three completely different sounds. It’s really a makeup of your physical body as well as your lungs, lips and mouth and it all goes into your sound
There’s also the heart part of it, too. How you can communicate a message through a melody. That’s very difficult for a lot of people, but it’s really what instrumental music is all about. It’s the transferring an emotion through a melody
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“I’ve never been one of those technical guys. I love playing, but I hate practicing! (laughs)”
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YOU MENTIONED DURING THE CONCERT THAT “I’M NOT A TECHNICIAN; I BRING OUT THE MELODY”.THAT IS A CONSCIOUS DECISION, AS MANY JAZZ MUSICIANS ERR ON TRYING TO BE A TECHNICIAN
You have to know who you are. And, that’s not to say that I always did.
I fought it, and finally discovered along the way what it was that I felt was the best way that I could communicate my particular message, and that wasn’t through playing a lot of complicated changes through technical wizardry. It just wasn’t in me.
I think that if I really, really tried hard, I could learn it
I remember taking jazz improvisation lessons from Charlie Shoemake, which every guy in the 80s was doing at the time. I learned the solos in every key of all the Sonny Stitt, Hank Mobley, Sonny Rollins and Charlie Parker. It wasn’t me.
But what was me was just sinking my teeth into a great melody. That has been what became my calling card, and I’m grateful that I found it.
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“There’s also the heart part of it, too. How you can communicate a message through a melody. That’s very difficult for a lot of people, but it’s really what instrumental music is all about. It’s the transferring an emotion through a melody”
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WAS THERE ANYONE THAT HELPED YOU REALIZE THAT GOAL WITH GREAT ADVICE TO HELP YOU ACHIEVE THAT IDEA?
What first comes to my mind is meeting David Sanborn for the first time.
He was my absolute North Star of the alto saxophone, which was what I started on.
I loved David’s approach and his sound. So, through a friend of a friend of a cousin of a friend’s sister (laughs) I got the chance to meet my idol backstage face to face after his show at the Universal Amphitheater, which was covered at the time.
Here I was, a bumbling fool, trying to get the words out of my mouth to David Sanborn, as to how much I loved him. I said so effusively “I love everything that you do. I love your sound; I’ve memorized all of your songs and solos, and I play along with all of your records…”
Sanborn finally put his hands up and said “STOP. Why don’t you just let me be me, because I’m going to be around for a little while, and why don’t you just be you and find out who you are. You be you, and let me be me”
It was kind of harsh, with that New York attitude. I first didn’t know what to make of it. What does that mean? But it became so prophetic because he was saying “don’t copy; find out who you are, and put that out there. “
That was probably the best advice I’ve ever heard
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“Ultimately, playing on the saxophone has a personality stamp; you get ‘who they are’ very quickly by their sound. It’s not so much the notes that they play as the sound and the physicality of the player”
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IT’S JUST LIKE GROWING UP IN TAFT HIGH SCHOOL. YOU WANT TO BE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, SO IT TAKES A BIT OF COURAGE TO FIND OUT WHO YOU REALLY ARE AND STAND OUT, BOTH MUSICALLY AND PERSONALLY
So much of my life was hiding.
I grew up a gay kid at a time when my generation of being gay had it much better than the generation before. Hopefully the next generation will have it better than I had it.
At the time, I had a lot of internalized homophobia. I was afraid to stick out, so I ended up wearing a lot of masks, and hiding for a very long time
It was only in my forties that I came out publicly and was able to put my two feet on the ground as a whole person. Since then I’ve been working on sinking into being who I really am and letting it all hang out there
What makes this album so divinely timed is that it is really me, without any coloring, bells and whistles, production and reverb. It’s just “here it is; two people making music together, breathing together and vibing off each other, in a pure unadulterated way”
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“It’s just “here it is; two people making music together, breathing together and vibing off each other, in a pure unadulterated way”
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IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, YOU TWO ALSO HAVE TO LIKE EACH OTHER TO DO IT.
I love Bob! I love that man!
First of all, he’s hilarious, and he’s full of stories. He’s a walking inspiration.
At 85 years old, the guy is as curious as anyone I know 1/3 of his age. He’s a technical master, always doing some crazy stuff with his computer. He’s like an IT person, showing me how to do things on my computer! (laughs)
He’s infinitely inspiring musically, pushing me in ways that I need to be pushed at this moment in my life. He’s a lot of fun to be around.
IT’S IMPORTANT TO FIND YOURSELF AND ACCEPT WHO YOU ARE WHERE YOU ARE
It’s not overdramatic for me to say that if I didn’t find music at 13 years , when I was completely just a shell of a person, and when someone put a saxophone in my hands, the saxophone became a lifeline. It gave me a chance to put my emotions about things that I couldn’t talk about to anyone. I was able to channel it through the saxophone.
If I had to say why I had the chance to have the career that I’ve had, it’s probably because of that universal pain that was in the dna of my sound. Who hasn’t experienced pain in their lives?
It’s a universal thing
YOU ALSO HAVE A “SIDE GIG” INTERVIEWING PEOPLE FOR YOUR OWN PROGRAM. WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT IT?
I appreciate how much jazz musicians have to say, and they have very few vehicles of getting their message out.
In addition to being a fan of the music, I’m also a fan of the people making it. Many of them are my good friends as well, and I want to give our audiences a chance to hear what’ son their minds. They don’t have a lot of opportunities to say what this music means to them
So, it’s been part of my life being a cheerleader for the musicians since the early 90s when I got my first radio show.
Believe me, I don’t consider myself a “radio personality”; it just sort of happened along the way. It’s still something that I really enjoy, in being able to share this great music, and there’s a whole lot of great music being made right now.
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“Sanborn finally put his hands up and said “STOP. Why don’t you just let me be me, because I’m going to be around for a little while, and why don’t you just be you and find out who you are. You be you, and let me be me'”
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I THINK THAT WE’RE IN A GOLDEN AGE OF MUSIC, AND WE DON’T EVEN REALIZE IT.
Music is fully democratic
When I first started, there were a lot of “gate keepers”. You could have a great idea, but if you couldn’t find someone that would put up the money to record your album and put it out, you were out of luck.
But now, if you have a good idea and have a way to record it, with one button you can get that thing out into the world. Universal and worldwide distribution at the flick of a switch.
There’s now a plethora of music, which has it’s good side and “not so good” side
With so much music out there, how do you actually get people to listen to your music?
BEING AN INTERVIEWER, IS THERE ANYONE LIVING OR DEAD THAT YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED TO INTERVIEW?
I think that I could have just been in a room with Frank Sinatra…
He’s the biggest icon I can think about. All of his music is still so pure and so present. It still sounds incredible, even though it was recorded 60+ years ago
The closest that I ever got to interviewing him was when I interviewed Tony Bennett for my radio show. It was for thirty minutes, and he couldn’t have been nicer. He answered all of my questions, but he was also curious about me!
That’s what makes it so worthwhile for me.
For an example, one time I was interviewing George Benson. It wasn’t in person, but on the phone.
I knew that I was probably one of six interviews that he was having that day.
He gets on the phone, and he’s answering my questions with just two word answers, all real pat.
Then, about five minutes into the call, he says “is this the Dave Koz that plays the saxophone?”
After that, I could not get the man off the phone! (laughs) It went on and on until his manager came on and said, “Wrap it up, George, you have five more to do!”
That highlights the privilege of conversation that musicians can have with each other that takes it to a different level.
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“If I had to say why I had the chance to have the career that I’ve had, it’s probably because of that universal pain that was in the dna of my sound. Who hasn’t experienced pain in their lives?”
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SINCE DOING THIS MILESTONE OF AN ALBUM, WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
I look at Bob, and he’s inspired me in so many ways
When he talks about his life right now, he refers to it as “bonus time”. I love that.
He’s a bit more than 20 years older than I am, and most of his contemporaries have passed.
It might not be “bonus time” yet for me, but I love that concept, because even if it all stopped tomorrow, I could still look a back and say, “Wow, what a magic carpet ride I’ve had, and what a life”
The experiences that I’ve had and to make music with so many different people, makes that resonate with me as well, as far as bonus time.
I’m now following more my “creative barometer” now more than other times in my career when I’ve done things more from a commercial standpoint. “What’s the right thing to do? What’s the right record to make?”
I’m not as strategic now; I just want to make music that is inside of me.
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I’m not as strategic now; I just want to make music that is inside of me.
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IS THERE A PHILOSOPHY, TEACHING, BOOK OR SOMETHING FROM YOUR JEWISH UPBRINGING THAT YOU USE AS AN INSPIRATION OR MORAL COMPASS?
Not so much religion, per se.
There was a book written by a poet, Raina Maria Wilke, called “Letters To A Young Poet”. It’s about his relationship with this young poet who reached out to him in the 1800s. The young poet was insecure, like all of us creators trying to figure out how we fit in, if we have anything to say.
He put a letter to his North Star, and it was received so well that they ended up having this beautiful communication together. It turned out to me as much a learning experience for the master as it was for the pupil
Reading that showed me how universal the creative process is, and all of the trials and tribulations that go into being a creative person. How normal it is, and how everyone goes through it, both young and old, talented and not-talented. Everyone is trying to figure it out.
The process, the seeking and searching for meaning and value in art is the key. It’s not the arriving at it; it’s the seeking, searching and the discovering.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY WHEN THEY PUT YOU INTO THE PINE BOX?
“He was nice guy”
“He tried to be a good son!”
She drove me crazy, like all Jewish mothers, but I tried to be good
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“The process, the seeking and searching for meaning and value in art is the key. It’s not the arriving at it; it’s the seeking, searching and the discovering”
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LIKE ALL CREATIVE ARTISTS, DAVE KOZ HAS FIRST HAD TO FIND OUT WHO HE IS BEFORE HE COULD EXPRESS THEMSELVES. THE SAD FACT IS THAT MOST OF US DON’T TAKE THE TIME, OR HAVE TO COURAGE, TO CONFRONT ONE’S OWN WEAKNESS, SINS AND PAINS. THAT IS WHY WE NEED ARTISTS LIKE DAVE KOZ; HE IS A SEARCHER,AND THOSE WHO ARE AFRAID TO TAKE A PATH ADMIRE THE ONES THAT DO.