LAST YEAR, CARL ALLEN GAVE A TRIBUTE TO LEGENDARY DRUMMER OF THE JAZZ MESSENGERS, ART BLAKEY. THIS YEAR, HE’S FOCUSING ON HIS OWN MATERIAL, RECENTLY RELEASING A STEAMING TRIO ALBUM (TIPPIN’)WITH LONG TIME FRIEND AND BASSIST CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE AND REED MAN CHRIS POTTER. BOTH PROJECTS SWING HARD AND ADVANCE THE HARD BOP CHARGE STARTED 4 SCORE YEARS AGO
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH MR. ALLEN ABOUT THE INFLUENCE THAT BLAKEY HAS PASSED ON TO ONE OF TODAY’S MOST PROLIFIC DRUMMERS, AS WELL AS WHAT HAS MADE HIM SUCH A SPOKESMAN FOR WHAT WE NOW CALL “MAINSTREAM JAZZ”
HOW ARE YOU FEELING TODAY?
As a friend of mine said, “If you’re on the right side of the green, you’re doing all right”
AND AFTERWORDS IT SHOULD BE BETTER!
That’s when the party begins! (laughs)
WHEN’S THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW ART BLAKEY PLAY, AND YOUR IMPRESSION?
The first time I saw Art Blakey was in 1979.
I’m from the Jazz Capitol of the World, which as you know, is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. (laughs)
There was a club there called The Jazz Gallery.
I felt like I was being baptized all over again
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“People always ask me “Did you ever sit down and have a lesson with Art or Elvin (Jones)?” Lessons didn’t come like that. ,,,, they would tell you stuff that on the surface would made no sense, you had to figure it out, and you couldn’t ask them what they meant.”
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WHO WAS IN THE BAND?
Wynton Marsalis, Bobby Watson, Billy Pierce, Charles Fambrough and James Williams
WHEN DID YOU FIRST GET TO KNOW HIM?
I kind of said something to him that night, but it was inconsequential.
When I moved to New York in ’81, I would go and hear him all of the time
What really started to open up the relationship was when I started playing with Freddie Hubbard.
I started playing with him in ’82.
By that time Terence Blanchard, Donald Harrison and those guys were in the band, and I was friends with them.
I was hanging out with them at Sweet Basil’s all of the time, and Blakey looks at me and says “Come here”.
He says “Terence tells me that you’re playing with Freddie now”
He looks around the room and then looks back at me and says “You know, Freddie’s a former Jazz Messenger.”
I told him I knew that
“Well,” he continues, “since you’re playing with a former Jazz Messenger, you’re now a Jazz Messenger”.
I ran to the pay phone. There were no cell phones then. I call my mother collect at 2:37 in the morning.
She thought something was wrong when the operator said “We have a collect call from Carl Allen”
She asked what was wrong, and I said “Mom! I’m a Jazz Messeger!”
She said “Come on home. I’ll send you a Greyhound ticket, baby. It’s okay! ”
She thought I had lost my mind.(laughs)
After that, we were cool, and Art Blakey would then be giving me advice
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“One time I’m playing at Sweet Basil’s and Art walks right by me and my drums on the way to the bathroom. I’m playing with my eyes closed, and he whispers in my ear “Your bass drums not breathing”, and he just keeps on walking.
What did that mean?!?”
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LIKE WHAT?
Oh, he’d mess around with me
Art and that generation made you kind of decipher what they had to say.
People always ask me “Did you ever sit down and have a lesson with Art or Elvin (Jones)?” Lessons didn’t come like that.
But the thing is, they would tell you stuff that on the surface would made no sense, you had to figure it out, and you couldn’t ask them what they meant.
One time I’m playing at Sweet Basil’s and Art walks right by me and my drums on the way to the bathroom. I’m playing with my eyes closed, and he whispers in my ear “Your bass drums not breathing”, and he just keeps on walking.
What did that mean?!?
But you can’t ask him what it meant, because if you did that, then they figured that you didn’t want to put the work in to figure it out.
The biggest things that the musicians of that generation despised more than anything was people that who felt they could take a shortcut
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“If there was anyone in the audience not swaying side to side when Art was playing the shuffle, you’d better call the paramedics”
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THERE ARE MUSICIANS THAT I’VE INTERVIEWED HAVE TOLD ME, “IF I HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU, YOU DON’T DESERVE TO UNDERSTAND IT”
It’s for that reason that many of my peers are sometimes challenged with what’s happening now, with today’s generation. But it could be relative because that’s probably how Art and Freddie thought about our generation when we were coming up.
When I hear people say “my band”, as in “I’ve got a gig with my band”, I’m thinking “Hold on a second. You’ve got one gig at a coffee house on Saturday, and nothing else, right? That’s not a gig with your band. You’re just hanging out with some guys, and you might be rehearsing, but that doesn’t constitute a band.”
When people say “I’m going out on tour” and I ask them “when are you leaving, they say “Tuesday. I’ll be coming back Thursday.” That’s not a tour; we call that a “run out”
A lot of that could be indicative of the times and social media, but I tell this to my students ***all of the time “Don’t come to me about your 22 year old friend who hasn’t played with anyone that he’s great. I haven’t even heard them and I can tell you that he ain’t great.”
They might be good but they can’t be great because in that room of greatness Elvin is in that room, Miles is in that room, Ella and Sinatra are in that room. Do they belong in that room? I don’t think so!
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“The biggest things that the musicians of that generation despised more than anything was people that who felt they could take a shortcut”
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PEOPLE NEED TO PROVE THEMSELVES
But we’re at a time when people don’t want to pay those dues. Because of social media, they just want to jump to the front of the line.
No! No! No! You have not put in enough time yet.
I’m not of the mindset that what the old beboppers used to say. ”I had it hard, so you have to have it hard”
It doesn’t matter how much I help you, you’re still going to have some troubles and challenges, and you should. You pay your own way
But if you really haven’t played with anybody or done anything you can’t think that everything is going to be laid out before you .
Without getting specifics, there are guys out there now who’s parents have basically paid ***for their career. They paid for all of these “legends” , so if you look at their resume’, you would be impressed. “Wow! They played with so and so”
But who called who? None of the legends called them! You played with them because you had the money to play with them. But, when they had a gig, did they call you?
WHEN YOU SAW BLAKEY, WHAT DID YOU SEE AND THINK “I WANT THAT”?
Two things immediately. The press roll and the shuffle.
When you hear Art Blakey play a shuffle in person. This is something that goes over the head of young people who don’t really know what a phone book is. You and I came up in a generation of these big physical phone books that had everyone’s number in them. Listening to Blakey play a shuffle was like watching someone rip a phone book apart with his bare hands. It was thunderous; you could feel the floor shaking
You talk about surreal..
Freddie Hubbard would tell me about these gigs that he would do with McCoy Tyner, and I’d ask him how it was. He’d say “McCoy’s blasting the piano. He made the piano levitate”. I would laugh, but he said “Seriously, man. McCoy would play so hard that it would move the piano”
That’s how it was with Art. He would play a shuffle
I grew up in the church, and I’m not trying to be overly dramatic, but when you watch Art play the shuffle, it was like watching people get The Holy Ghost.
If there was anyone in the audience not swaying side to side when Art was playing the shuffle, you’d better call the paramedics.
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“Listening to Blakey play a shuffle was like watching someone rip a phone book apart with his bare hands. It was thunderous; you could feel the floor shaking”
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WHAT HIT YOU WHEN YOU SAW ELVIN JONES FOR THE FIRST TIME?
It was similar. But before I saw Elvin live, he did a PBS special in 1977 called A Different Drummer.
This was a time before there were things like Youtube, so you were just left to your own imagination. Sure, there were things like The Ed Sullivan Show and Soul Train but jazz musicians were not on those shows, so I never had a visualization of Elvin Jones playing until I saw this video.
Up until that time, I had always visualized Elvin playing with his arms up high, since he had such a big sound.
When I saw him on a video, it messed me up because his hands were very close to the instrument, which showed the level of control that he played with
So, when I saw him play live, my mouth was dropped open. It just didn’t make sense
When I first started listening to Elvin, I thought everybody was wrong. They were all raving about Elvin, but I thought his time was horrible, it just wasn’t happening.
So, I would put the needle to the record back, put it back, put it back until I got to the level of understanding so I could realize that everyone was right; this man was a genius.
He had this thing called “rolling triplets” that made the time feel like it was in a wheel while it was moving forward.
The amazing thing about Elvin, my “Aha” moment, was that there was a difference between having a big sound and playing loud. Elvin had a big sound, but it wasn’t always necessarily loud.
When I think of that, along with his touch, his posture and the way that he would play, it was almost like it was scientifically impossible to do what he was doing. And he played with thin sticks!!!
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I grew up in the church, and I’m not trying to be overly dramatic, but when you watch Art play the shuffle, it was like watching people get The Holy Ghost
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I WAS FIRST FASCINATED HOW HE LEANED OVER HIS DRUMS LIKE THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME
Elvin was taller than most drummers of his time. A lot of drummers were “vertically challenged”
Philly Joe, Jimmy Cobb, Art Blakey, Mel Lewis, Roy Haynes, Tony Williams
YOU’VE TALKED ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH DRUMMERS. HOW ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH BASSISTS? YOU ARE ASSOCIATED WITH TWO BASSISTS, RODNEY WHITAKER AND CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE
WHAT DIFFERENCE CAN A BASSIST MAKE IN YOUR PLAYING?
Everything.
I believe that the relationship between the bassist and drummer is the most important relationship in improvised music. I’m sorry, but I’m not sorry.
We create the dance.
Part of the reason why we listen to music and part of what we get from music when it feels good is that the music is dancing. That back and forth motion.
Whenever I do clinics, I tell students that part of the job of the drummer and the bassist is to figure out the center of each person’s quarter note before the first measure is out. Now, we’re locked in step, fingers clenched.
Both Rodney and Christian are like brothers to me. I met Rodney when he was 17 and Christian when he was 15. We’ve been playing together all of these years.
Rodney and I have two records together as co-leaders
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“The amazing thing about Elvin, my “Aha” moment, was that there was a difference between having a big sound and playing loud. Elvin had a big sound, but it wasn’t always necessarily loud”
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THERE HAS TO BE AN ELEMENT OF TRUST THERE.
There is a handful of people, other than saying something bad about my mother, that there is nothing they could do that would make me not love them. Those two guys are on that list
YOU’VE PLAYED THROUGHOUT CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE’S CAREER
I’ve played on something like 240 records, and Christian is on about 20% of them. I’ve recorded more with him than any other bass player.
If we were to go a year without playing (which we’ve never done), by beat two it will have been as if we had been apart only five minutes.
For me, the relationship between bassists and drummers is not just the music. Playing music with someone is not just about the music
Because we’ve spent so much time together with his groups (he just did my last record with Benny Green), we know so much about each other. He comes to my house, and I go to his refrigerator. He goes to my house and into my refrigerator
We’re both grown up men; it’s not like he’s still 15. I’m so proud of him. Any time a person can have a vision and see it through, I’ll tip my hat.
The things that he’s been doing for the past 20 plus years, and the things of his own for the past ten, whether it’s being the Artistic Director of Newport Jazz Festival, the Jazz in Aspen, or his different projects.
I’ve learned so much from him musically. I’ve never ever seen him flustered.
He gets tired like everybody else, but even when people get a little weird, he’s always cool with them.
For example, Christian and I played in the Vanguard last year. We’re doing a sound check at the club the first day, and there’s a banging on the door. Who is this?
The security guy opens the door, and there was a woman there. She says “Christian told me to come for the sound check” Everyone knows he didn’t tell her to come here, but he escorts her around the club, etc.
A couple hours later, it’s time for the show to start and ththey tell us tell us “That woman’s here again” So Christian and the security guy go back.
A few minutes later he returns and we ask “Why’d you do that?”
He said, “If I hadn’t gone, it could have gotten much worse. She just wanted some attention.”
He just went out and said “Hey, good to see you; wee you next time”
The diplomacy with which he handled it was something. He could have just had his guys deal with it
Every gig in New York or LA is like a Who’s Who in the clubs with actors and musicians. Classical, rock and jazz. With Christian, he acts like they’ve been bowling together their whole lives. It speaks about his humanity; there’s never an ego behind it
When I call him to do my record date, he’s like “Are you kidding me? Of course”. We’re brothers for life; he never asks about money
He’s one of the handful of people that if the gig is on the moon for free, and I have to walk there, I’m on my way. Rodney too.
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“Whenever I do clinics, I tell students that part of the job of the drummer and the bassist is to figure out the center of each person’s quarter note before the first measure is out. Now, we’re locked in step, fingers clenched”
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DO THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT SOUND AND FEEL SO YOU HAVE TO ADAPT TO THEM DIFFERENTLY?
Absolutely.
I would say that McBride’s beat is broader, but they both have a bounce to their feel. McBride’s feel has changed a little bit over the years, but it’s still coming from Ray Brown.
Rodney has also changed a bit, but it comes from Paul Chambers and Doug Watkins
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“When you have a situation where you’re playing with people at that level, and there are no handcuffs on, and you’re given the opportunity to just try stuff, man, that’s a gift”
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WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST BAPTISM BY FIRE IN A BAND THAT YOU PLAYED WITH?
Freddie Hubbard
First of all, it was intimidating for me to think about all of the great drummers that he had played with. 2230
One of the things that I loved and appreciated about Freddie was that he never told me how to play. That may be hard for some people to understand. I was with him for eight years.
I was certainly at a place where I could have used some guidance, so one might think “well that’s not great leadership. He should have done this or that”
But what I really appreciated about him was that he gave me the freedom to explore
When you have a situation where you’re playing with people at that level, and there are no handcuffs on, and you’re given the opportunity to just try stuff, man, that’s a gift.
SO HE HAD A WAY OF GUIDING YOU
For instance, if I was playing something was really not happening, he would say something, but not in a demeaning way that would tear you down, like “Ah, that sucks, don’t do that”.
It took me awhile to pick it up.
He would say something like “That thing you were doing there, try something different”
I loved him so much for that, because what that meant (and a lot of the guys from that generation though this way), “hey, it may not have worked for this situation, but don’t throw it away. Put it over here, and you may want to use it for something else’
I remember one conversation that I had with him when I’d been in the band for about a year. It was one of those moments of overwhelming gratitude that I was able to play with him.
So, I said “Hub, you’ve played with all of these drummers (and I listed them all off). Why did you call me?
He just kind of looked at me for a minute, and said “you know I have all of their numbers, right?”
If I wanted them I would have called them. I want you so you can develop. If you don’t want the gig, I’ll make the call” (laughs) I told him I was cool. (laughs)
He was letting me know that he was giving me an opportunity to develop and grow.
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“I believe that the relationship between the bassist and drummer is the most important relationship in improvised music…We create the dance”
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JUST LIKE BLAKEY GAVE HIM
Very much in the spirit of Art Blakey.
You’re kind of taught by default, at least in the early versions of that band. Part of the responsibility is that when you leave that band, you’re going to have to help some young cats.
That was Freddie being a Jazz Messenger.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN GROWING UP IN THE CHURCH THAT YOU STILL CARRY WITH YOU?
The importance of a feeling, of transparency in the music and honesty.
To this day, I still listen to almost as much gospel music as I do to jazz
One of the things that I really love about gospel music, whether it’s “contemporary” or Old School, is that the level of intense sincerity behind the message
One of the things that I learned in church, and one of the things that I learned from playing with such great jazz masters is that you cannot dial it in. You have an obligation to be honest, because the music is so transparent that I don’t care what kind of faces you make, I don’t care if you’re drooling , if you are not being honest when you play, people are going to feel it.
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“One of the things that I learned in church, and one of the things that I learned from playing with such great jazz masters is that you cannot dial it in. You have an obligation to be honest, because the music is so transparent that I don’t care what kind of faces you make, I don’t care if you’re drooling , if you are not being honest when you play, people are going to feel it”
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THAT’S WHY I PLAY BLACK GOSPEL MUSIC FROM THE 40s-50s EVERY SUNDAY GETTING READY FOR CHURCH. I NEED TO WARM UP!
Here’s the thing…
And this is not a negative at all.
I’ve realized that there are certain musicians that I love listening to more than I love paying with, and vice versa.
Most of my piano players to play with have come out of the church. The number one piano player that I love playing with that came out of the church, and I really miss this guy every day, is Mulgrew Miller.
We on earth were really robbed when he was taken from us, but he must have had a bigger calling.
I remember talking to him about this.
Around when I was at Julliard, I did a record with Donald Byrd called A City Called Heaven.I said “Byrd, I’m really trying to figure out the relationship between jazz and gospel”
He looked at me and said “Really?”
He said it’s a natural relationship
“The bridge is very straight and very short
People use the term ‘Spiritual”, as in describing John Colrane’s music. That word is used in a very loose and generic sense
But his music was also spiritual in a literal sense, because his father, like many other legendary jazz musicians, and grandfather were ministers. He grew up playing in churches.
Coltrane would learn from all of those hymnals in the back of the pews, and he would incorporate this into his playing.”
That lesson really took me down this other path.
So I now call Mulgrew and told him that I wanted to explore this relationship with our students. I’d like your help.
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“People use the term ‘Spiritual”, as in describing John Colrane’s music. That word is used in a very loose and generic sense, But (Mulgrew Miller’s) music was also spiritual in a literal sense, because his father, like many other legendary jazz musicians, and grandfather were ministers. He grew up playing in churches”
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HOW DID HE RESPOND?
He just laughed and said, “Let me tell you something, Carl”
“People always say that I know a lot of tunes; I know a fair amount” He was being humble. ****“Would you believe that I probably know more gospel tunes than jazz tunes?”
I told him that was impossible’
“You say that’s impossible because you don’t think there are that many gospel tunes” he answers “Gospel tunes fed into most jazz tunes”
So, we actually did two recordings together as students.
He told me “My favorite record is Aretha Franklin’s Amazing Grace. I have three copies. I keep one at home, one in my car, and one in my suitcase, (this was before digital music), so whenever I travel I have it with me.
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“To this day, I still listen to almost as much gospel music as I do to jazz. One of the things that I really love about gospel music, whether it’s “contemporary” or Old School, is that the level of intense sincerity behind the message”
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HOW DID THAT IMPRESS YOU?
It’s fascinating when you find out what motivates people.
THE JONES FAMILY OF ELVIN, THAD AND HANK HAD A FATHER THAT WAS A DEACON
So was Thelonious Monk; his father was a minister.
THERE’S A REASON THEY CALL IT “THE BAPTIST BEAT”
When we start talking about jazz music, this is why I’m a bit Old School when it comes to using this name “jazz”
I don’t think jazz was ever meant to be from one singular voice. If there are no triplets, should we still be calling it “jazz”? That’s a whole ‘nother conversation.
But I say that because there are many facets of this music
But when we talk about the relationship between jazz and gospel, there are just certain elements that have to be there.
AND SOME DRUMMERS LIKE TO GET TOO BUSY, BUT BY DOING THAT THEY MISS THE CHURCH FEEL
Let me tell you something, man.
I do a lot of residencies and clinics, stuff like that in schools and universities
I won’t mention the school, but a few years ago I was there, and a friend of mine was part of the residency. We were going to go to a club and hear our students play
So we get there, and for the last song they were playing “Have You Met Miss Jones?”. This drummer had chops that you wouldn’t believe. He was just a kid. He was playing all kinds of stuff
After the set, he sees us and gets introduced to us by the director. He says “I’m so happy to meet you. Blah blah blah”
I said “Let me ask you something; sing me the melody of that last song you played. Do you know that name of the song?’
He gave me the wrong name and then sang something.
“That’s not the melody” I told him. He didn’t know the melody.
I want to commend you for having such amazing facility around your instrument. But you have to understand that when you play this music, part of our job is to serve the song. You were on the whole time but I never even heard the whole song. I never heard you support the melody, and you can’t support the melody if you don’t know the melody”
I said this to him while I embraced him. I didn’t want him to feel attacked.
Learn the melody to every song that you play.
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“There’s somebody out there that’s been saving their money, got a baby sitter, parked the stuff to get in here so they can come and hear ‘Blues March” for the first time live. And every time I play it, I’ve got to play it like it’s the first time””
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DID YOU GET THAT FROM THE MASTERS?
You listen to Art Blakey.
Blakey had that uncanny and unbelievable ability to remember not only the melodies but the arrangements of every song.
Blakey couldn’t read music, but he was a piano player
Guys from The Messengers would tell me that they would play the tune and he would listen. ***By the time he would play it, it was as if he’d been playing it all of his life. He had the shorts and longs, the dynamics and orchestration; it was unbelievable.
HOW DID HE LEARN THAT?
I would talk to him about his early days playing with Billy Eckstine’s band when he was 16. He said “I remember such and such a song, with the third trombone would play ‘bahdoomba doo bah’ and the baritone sax played ‘ba da da dee da’: I was thinking “What?!?”
Blakey remembered every arrangement
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“You’ve got to find a way to get to the music quicker!”
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HOW ABOUT FROM HUBBARD?
One of the most fascinating things about Freddie was that in those eight years together we had maybe five rehearsals, and those were for recording sessions. We just didn’t rehearse!
I tell my students that I came up at a time when guys DIDN’T rehearse, and you weren’t given music.
On those Blue Note record dates, Freddie told me he’d do 2-3 recordings in a DAY! Sometimes they’d just scribble out something
You listen to those Blue Note records and you think “yeah, they could’ve been tighter”, but some of these tunes were first takes that they were sight reading! But this was indicative of their level of musicianship to be able to do that.
I remember watching Freddie getting a piece of music for the first time. It was fascinating to watch him process.
The process was that he would first look at it. Just look at it.
Then he would finger the melody, and the third time he’d say ‘ Let’s play it”.
The first time you heard him play it, you’d swear he’d been playing it all his life. By the third time, he had internalized it.
So, when we start talking about great musicianship, part of that is understanding. When you’re reading music the difference between reading and interpreting.
Art had that ability to interpret. The way that he could orchestrate…someone should do a doctoral dissertation on it.
And the thing was, he could get to it so quickly
I tell my students “You’ve got to find a way to get to the music quicker!”
This is the world that we professional musicians live in, where you have 1 ½ hour rehearsal.
I was just telling this musician that was going to play on a jazz cruise.
You have just over an hour to rehearse for that cruise, and when you’re on that cruise the audience needs to think that you’ve been playing that song all of your life. You can’t sit there thinking “how many measures is this? What chord is that?”
It’s important to get to the music faster. That’s what those guys were able to do. That’s what greatness looks like.
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“you can’t support the melody if you don’t know the melody”
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WHAT BOOKS HAVE YOU READ THAT YOU THINK EVERYONE SHOULD READ?
The Bible.
Growing up in church and being a Christian, so many of life’s answers are right there, and I don’t need to debate it.
Then, there’s an author, John C. Maxwell. He’s got a lot of books, but one of his that I’m reading now is called The Self Aware Leader, and it’s really good.
I love Tony Morrison, and my favorite is The Bluest Eye.
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“(Freddie Hubbard) would finger the melody, and…he’d say ‘ Let’s play it”.. The first time you heard him play it, you’d swear he’d been playing it all his life. By the third time, he had internalized it.
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WHO IN WORLD HISTORY, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEND AN EVENING WITH AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
Good question; I’ve never been asked that one before.
Definitely Jesus.
But there are so many that I admire. I don’t believe in idolatry.
One is the great artist Romer Bierden. I’ve always been fascinated by James Baldwin
He used to hang out in this club in New York called McKells, I saw him there, but I never got a chance to meet him.
I always love it when people make me think about things differently. That makes me question whatever it is that I feel strongly about.
It’s one thing to say ‘ You feel strongly about this? Why?” I like to think about the “why”
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“As I’ve gotten older, I’ve worked on, and I’ve continued to work on eliminating minutia”
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WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
To continue to get in better shape
Really, to just make a positive impact
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve worked on, and I’ve continued to work on eliminating minutia.
I feel like it’s a point in my life where it’s “legacy time”
What I mean by that is that I have friends that ask my why I went back into teaching. I live between New York and Kansas City, and it’s not easy living in two cities, or paying for two places
But I’m at the point where I now understand, more than ever, ‘to whom much is given, much is expected’
When you start to think generationally
Traditionally, with jazz musicians, for some when they reach a certain age, they become bitter because we don’t think people appreciate what we’ve done. And we’re really quick to talk about all that we’ve done, to make it mean something.
If you’re going to complain about how low the pay is, then stop doing those gigs.
If you’re complaining about people not appreciating you, well sometimes you’ve got to do something that they’ll appreciate! (laughs)
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“I always love it when people make me think about things differently. That makes me question whatever it is that I feel strongly about”
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THAT’S AN IMPORTANT OBSERVATION.
There are three things that we’ve got to get ourselves, because people will not give them to us: Rest, Respect, A Raise
If you’re doing a gig, and are getting the same pay that you were 4 years before, then shame on you. Unless, of course you just want to do it. In other words, don’t complain about how sad the money because you have a choice.
***So as to the “legacy period” in my life, when the head goes cold, what are they going to say about you?
It’s about the work and not about the recognition. It’s not for us to give ourselves the recognition.
It’s important for us to understand our value, but no one wants us to walk around, beat our chest and say “look at what I’ve done”. Let someone else talk about that.
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“When things happen, you can choose to either go through it or grow through it. I’ve made a conscious decision to grow through it”
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IT’S SO IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT AT YOUR STAGE IN LIFE, BECAUSE AS WE AGE WE DO LOSE OUR CHOPS, NEW IDEAS AND ENERGY, BUT WE CAN COMPENSATE BY OUR WISDOM, COMMUNICATION SKILLS AND PATIENCE. DAVID BROOKS WROTE A BOOK ON IT, FROM GLORY TO GLORY. WE”RE CALLED TO PASS SOMETHING ON, BECAUSE IF YOU JUST TRY TO HANG ON, YOU GET BITTER.
Yeah, that’s right.
One of the things that I’ve learned over the years is that we can’t sometimes control that things that happen to us, but what we can control is how we respond to these things.
I’m always telling students the importance of being intentional.
So, when things happen, you can choose to either go through it or grow through it. I’ve made a conscious decision to grow through it.
When you’re a musician, you’ve got to understand that your life is under a microscope, whether you want it to be or not. Every day of your life you’re being auditioned.
You’re walking around, people are looking at you, judging you and taking notes
My pastor would always tell me that character is more important than talent
When I first got to Kansas City, I would tell the faculty “When you’re at the grocery store picking up cucumbers and carrots for your salad, and someone sees you and knows that you teach here, you’re a reflection of what we’re trying to represent.
Just like if you’re on the street corner buying something that you shouldn’t be buying, they’re going to make that association, too! (laughs)
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I’m always telling students the importance of being intentional.
“When things happen, you can choose to either go through it or grow through it. I’ve made a conscious decision to grow through it”
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What kind of message do I want to leave?
Last night, I watched a little bit of the Grammys. I’m not into the Grammys, but I was very proud that a couple of my students and a couple of my friends won
I didn’t understood the impact that I was making on these kids’ lives until I saw some of them after I left teaching at Julliard.
Some of the students would say, “Thank you , Mr. Allen, for what you did for me when I was a student of yours”
Or “There was something that you said that I disagreed with and we argued about it, but now I tell my students about it” (laughs)
Some of these kids I had as students are now teaching at a university and they now have me as a guest . (laughs) I say, that’s ok!
I’m just passing on to people what people have passed on to me”
Rufus Reid was my teacher in college at Wayne Patterson. I’ve been gone from there a long time, but I still call him “Mr. Reid” and “My Professor”
He will be my teacher for as long as I’m breathing, because the stuff that he taught me helped me model the conceptual approach to being the director of a Jazz Studies program
I did a clinic in last November, and my percussion instructor during my sophomore year, who had left there to get into some military bands and has now retired was there at my clinic.
I acknowledged him from the stage. We’re Facebook friends, and I’ve seen him a few times over the years, but I’m 60+ and I still call him “Mr. Snyder”. That’s the respect that I have for him.
I was the youngest of five kids, raised by my mother. I was taught to never lose reverence or respect for people that you should hold in high regard
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“I’m just passing on to people what people have passed on to me”
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WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY WHEN YOU’RE SIX FEET UNDER?
Maybe they’ll smile, or maybe they’ll curse me out for something that I made them do (laughs)
Hopefully, they’ll appreciate that whatever I was having them do, that it was out of love
LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS
I tell students all of the time when I’m about to “bless them out”, “you need to understand that this is based on love”. I love you, but blah blah blah…
You know how your mother would give you a whooping, and then she’d hug me after spanking me with that belt! (laughs)
IS THERE ANYONE ON THIS TRIBUTE THAT YOU HAVEN’T PLAYED WITH BEFORE?
Everyone on the band has played with Art
In fact there was a project that we toured with a few years ago, called “From Spirituals To Swing”, and a lot of those guys were in that band. It’s a reunion of sorts.
It’s funny, but while we were rehearsing the other night, I told them. “I just want to thank you guys for letting me be an honorary Jazz Messenger”
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“My pastor would always tell me that character is more important than talent”
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WHAT SONG WILL YOU PLAY THAT WILL REALLY MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE A JAZZ MESSENGER?
“Moanin’” . We’re going to play that and “Blues March” It would be sacreligious to do a Blakey Tribute and not do those tunes
One time I was playing the Blue Note with Freddie. I’d been in the band for a couple of years. Art came in to hear me in the band
He cursed me out after the gig. It changed my life.
He said “Carl, you’re not orchestrating; you’re not setting up the band; you’re not playing dynamics, etc”
“I know what part of the problem is. You’re tired of playing the same music”
“You know how long I’ve been playing ‘Blues March’?I’ve got to play ‘Blues March’ every night!”
“There’s somebody out there that’s been saving their money, got a baby sitter, parked the stuff to get in here so they can come and hear ‘Blues March” for the first time live. And every time I play it, I’ve got to play it like it’s the first time”
Since then I’ve never taken it for granted again.
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“I’m at the point where I now understand, more than ever, ‘to whom much is given, much is expected’”
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THAT IS THE EFFECT THAT A DRUMMER LIKE ART BLAKEY CAN HAVE ON A MUSIC FAN. WHETHER OR NOT YOU’VE EVER HEARD THE MUSIC OF THE ORIGINATOR OF THE JAZZ MESSENGERS, IT’S A SAFE BET THAT ALLEN AND COMPANY WILL INSPIRE YOU AS TO THE GOSPEL OF HARD BOP.
SET YOURSELF UP FOR A MUSICAL BAPTISM WITH ALLEN AND COMPANY AT NEW YORK’S SMOKE JAZZ CLUB THIS WEEKEND.