ONE OF THE LIVING TREASURES OF JAZZ AND LOS ANGELES IS BENNIE MAUPIN.
LIKE FORREST GUMP, HE SEEMS TO ALWAYS BE PRESENT ON GROUNDBREAKING RECORDINGS. HIS BASS CLARINET ADDED ESSENTIAL TEXTURE TO MILES DAVIS’ SEMINAL BITCHES BREW AND JACK JOHNSON ALBUMS. HE WAS ALSO PART OF HERBIE HANCOCK’S FORWARD THINKING MWANDISHI BAND THAT BRIDGED A WIDE RANGE OF MUSICAL GENRES. HIS ROLE AS A SIDEMAN WITH LEE MORGAN, MOST NOTABLY ON LIVE AT THE LIGHTHOUSE IS THE MATERIAL OF LEGEND, CREATING ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING MODAL COLLECTIONS ON RECORD.
AND, OH, YES, HE’S HAD AN IMPRESSIVE CAREER AS A LEADER, TO SAY THE LEAST. HIS 1974 DEBUT ALBUM AS SUCH, THE JEWEL IN THE LOTUS, WAS AN AMBITIOUS OPUS THAT DEFIED LABELS AND GENRES, MELDING FOLK, FREE FORM AND POST BOP THAT HAS STOOD THE TEST OF TIME, PROVEN BY A CONCERT OF THE ALBUM LED BY MAUPIN EARLIER THIS PAST YEAR.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. MAUPIN ABOUT THAT RELEASE, AS WELL AS HIS HABIT OF SHOWING UP WHERE THINGS HAPPEN.
LAST YEARYOU DID A CONCERT THAT IS A CELEBRATION OF THE 50TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF YOUR DEBUT ALBUM.
THIS ALBUM WAS QUITE A DEPARTURE FROM YOUR WORK WITH MILES DAVIS AND HERBIE HANCOCK. WHAT WAS YOUR IMPETUS AND INDPIRATON FOR THIS PROJECT?
I was given an opportunity to record on ECM
Manfried Eicher never said anything to me as to what I should present. He just opened up the opportunity, and the rest is history.
HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT CHOOSING THE MUSICIANS FOR THE ALBUM?
We all knew each other from New York
I was also working at the same time with Herbie Hancock and Buster Williams, so they were my choices to participate
WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU LISTENED TO THE ALBUM?
I don’t know the last time that I actually listened to it.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY AT THE CONCERT?
I’m going to play the music from The Jewel and the Lotus.
I don’t know quite who’s going to be in the band. None of the original members will play
YOU GREW UP IN A TOWN THAT HAS A RICH MUSICAL HISTORY, DETROIT.
It was an environment that had opportunities for musicians. A lot of travelling musicians came to Detroit from other places and they ended up staying.
WHO FROM THAT AREA MADE THE BIGGEST IMPRESSION ON YOU AT THE TIME?
Dr. Yusef Lateef
I met him from one of my friends who was studying with him
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“stay true to what you feel. Also, always do your best to present something that will be well received”
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WHAT DID HE PASS ON TO YOU?
A wide variety of things, but mostly to stay true to what you feel. Also, always do your best to present something that will be well received
WHO BESIDES YUSEF LATEEF HAS INFLUENCED YOU THE MOST?
Sonny Rollins. John Coltrane. Lester Young. Miles Davis.
Anyone that’s anybody. But, I’ve had the opportunity to spend some time with John Coltrane as well as Sonny Rollins, so they inspired me and encouraged me a lot during my early years.
YOU MET ERIC DOLPHY AS WELL
I never got to study with Eric, but I did get to listen to him in person, because there was a time that he played with John Coltrane, and they came to Detroit.
I got to hear him and see him; I was very inspired by what they were doing
Years later, once I moved to New York, I got to hear him a little more, but shortly after that he went to Europe. Before he came back, he passed away in Germany.
It was a wonderful experience to hear it in the moment. To see them doing in “live”…it wasn’t a recording, but when they came to Detroit I got to hear and see it. There were no recordings of it at the time
WHILE IN DETROIT, YOU ALSO PLAYED A SHORT TIME WITH THE R&B GROUP THE FOUR TOPS
It was one of those things that came my way
I went to the Detroit Conservatory of Music. During the summer, there were no classes, so I was free.
It’s always about people you know. One of my friends told her brother about me. There were no emails or texts back then. Her brother’s name was Johnny Griffin. He was the music director for The Four Tops, and they needed a saxophonist. He called me and invited me over to his house. He had some music he wanted me to look at and I played for him
He hired me. I enjoyed it; the musicians were really great. We did some gigs that were available at the time in Atlantic City, the Borscht Belt in the Catskills. There were a lot of people on vacation; the last show starts at 1:00 in the morning. It was quite an adventure for me.
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“It’s always about people you know”
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YOU’VE HAD QUITE A CAREER. HOW ARE YOU PASSING IT ON TO OTHERS?
I’m putting together my autobiography. I just want to share my history
WHEN YOU WERE FIRST WITH MILES DAVIS ON BITCHES BREW, WERE YOU GIVEN ANY SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS?
Miles never said anything to me about the music. He just invited who he invited, and he invited me..
We didn’t sit down and plan everything. The music that happened on Bitches Brew happened right at the moment
DID YOU THINK THAT THE RECORDING AT THE TIME WAS ON THE VERGE OF SOMETHING NEW AND INFLUENTIAL ?
After you do something, it’s done and you don’t know what it’s going to do. I was just happy that I was invited to be there with him and have that opportunity.
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“We didn’t sit down and plan everything. The music that happened on Bitches Brew happened right at the moment”
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HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE WITH HERBIE HANCOCK’S HEADHUNTERS. WERE THERE ANY SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR THAT CLASSIC ALBUM? THIS ALBUM HAD A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOUND
It was a different band and a different time. We were just trying something. Herbie had some ideas. I had some, and so did Paul Jackson and Bill Summers. Somehow, as a result of our chemistry that album was our result.
THAT WAS THE DAWN OF THE AGE WHEN EVERYONE STARTED PLUGGING IN AND DOING ELECTRONICS
I was just being in the moment, and enjoying what was coming my way.
Playing with my friends in New York, something always was coming on. There was the music of Sun Ra and his Orchestra. I was busy listening, absorbing and practicing a lot.
DID THAT BAND EVOLVE INTO MWANDISHI, OR DID IT MAKE A SEPARATE AND CLEAN START?
For a lot of different reasons, Herbie wanted to make a change
After the sextet dissolved, I was the only one to continue to play with him, and that’s when we did Headhunters.
The Mwandishi band traveled around the United States, and went to Europe and did some really nice gigs. That was especially rewarding, just being there with such fine musicians
YOU HAVE ALSO BEEN PART OF SOME CLASSIC HARD BOP ALBUMS WITH HORACE SILVER. WAS THAT PART OF YOUR BEING IN THE MOMENT, OR PART OF YOUR EVOLUTION AS A MUSICIAN?
Being in New York, people get to know your playing. I happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Horace called me; the first time I auditioned for him he didn’t hire me. He hired a guy named Tyrone Washington, but the fact that he even called me was inspiring.
When Tyrone left and Horace’s band changed, he called me again, and we did Serenade to a Soul Sister.
YOU ALSO SPENT TIME WITH FREDDIE HUBBARD
It was really exciting. Freddie was in really good form, and the musicians were superb. Freddie Waits on drums, Herbie Lewis played the bass, Kenny Barron was playing piano. The band changed and we brought on James Spaulding; the band was really exciting.
Freddie was amazing. A genius
AN ALBUM THAT WASN’T EVEN RELEASED UNTIL YEARS LATER, AND IS NOW A CLASSIC,IS YOUR TIME WITH LEE MORGAN ON LIVE AT THE LIGHTHOUSE. WHAT WERE THE CONDITIONS OF THAT GIG?
The conditions were very good for me, because we played as a band. It wasn’t just a session. We came from New York and had played in San Francisco before coming to the Lighthouse.
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“I’m not so much interested in technique; that’s not about music. It’s about something else”
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HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE PLAYING WITH MORGAN AS OPPOSED TO HUBBARD?
IT’s like apples and oranges; they’re all good.
YOU HAVED LIVED AND PLAYED IN SOME OF THE DYNAMIC MUSIC CHANGES IN JAZZ-BEBOP, HARD BOP, FUSION, MODAL AND FREE. WITH ALLOF THOSE YEARS OF LISTENING, WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR WHEN YOU TAKE IN A BAND?
Guys that I know, I’ve heard play in other situations. In New York, the community was active but it was very small, so I got to know some of these guys, play with them and just develop a rapport. We went to each other’s jobs and have opportunity to jam together. in some of the settings that were available. It was a very strong “Loft” period, which were where the music was happening
If you’re there and around, sooner or later you might be in the right spot
PLAYING THE FLUTE, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU LISTEN FOR IN OTHER FLUTE PLAYERS, OR HAVE A PET PEEVE?
As a woodwind player, I have to hear their sound, to see what kind of quality they have.
I’m not so much interested in technique; that’s not about music. It’s about something else.
Of the musicians who have inspired me the most, it’s because they have a beautiful sound. John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Eric Dolphy, all of the giants.
All of the people that are listening to them in the music conservatories. Everybody is trying to copy them.
I never wanted to copy them; I just wanted to be able to play well
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“Of the musicians who have inspired me the most, it’s because they have a beautiful sound. John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Eric Dolphy, all of the giants.I never wanted to copy them; I just wanted to be able to play well “
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WHO WERE YOUR TEACHERS?
I had some great teachers in New York
Joe Allard was particularly helpful to me.
I also met Eddie Daniels, and Eddie and I became friends through our association with Sonny Rollins.
Eddie encouraged me to call Joe Allard, because I was having some problems with something on the horn
I didn’t realize until much, much later that Allard had been a major influence on a lot of musicians in the Ellington orchestra, from Julliard. He had a long history.
He gave me some technical things that enabled me to move forward.
WAS THERE A MAJOR THING HE KEPT EMPHASIZING TO YOU AS A STUDENT?
He impressed me with what he used to call “The Setting”.
When you’re putting the horn up to your mouth to play, he described it as being “The Setting”.
He taught me how I ought to strive to minimize the amount of pressure, and the air support . Things of those nature. “The Setting” really helped me to develop my embrochure.
WHO’S GIVEN YOU THE BEST CAREER OR LIFE ADVICE?
So many have encouraged me: John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins. Wayne Shorter came to Detroit with Art Blakey and I spent time with him.
But the key person was Dr. nanYusef Lateef.
WHAT WAS HIS BIGGEST ADVICE
Stay clean. Don’t drink. Don’t smoke. Do your best to be consistent with whatever you are working on
I had a very good saxophone teacher in Detroit, Larry Teal. Taking lessons from him on a weekly basis was a big deal. He was very firm about how to produce the sound and where your instrument should be
Over time, as I would meet more saxophone players, I would notice that some guys would play very well and in tune. I was always inspired by that.
If I hear a guy where his embrochure is so poor, and his breath support is not right, and he’s out of tune, it’s something that can be corrected. But a lot of guys think “I’ll just do it on my own”. Yeah, go ahead! (laughs)
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“Do your best to be consistent with whatever you are working on”
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SO, AT YOUR AGE ARE YOU STILL DOING LONG TONES TO KEEP YOUR CHOPS UP? WHAT DO YOU DO AT YOUR AGE TO KEEP A GOOD SOUND AND IN GOOD HEALTH?
Long tones will always make a difference. Long tones are the key
When I took my lessons from Larry Teal Sr. AND Larry Teal JR, it was all about producing a tone. That sound was my treasure, because after a certain point I stopped studying with everybody, I knew I what I needed to do.
You’ve got to build up the tissue
I listen to a lot of guys, and I can tell that they don’t understand the significance of long tones. Consequently, they play out of tune. You can tell if someone’s been practicing or not.
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“As the study of the music has become more academically based, the flavor has become very different”
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WHAT BOOKS HAVE YOU READ THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY INFLUENTIAL IN YOUR LIFE
The Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yoganananda. I focused on this for many years.
There are some books that I’ve been reading in recent times that relate to Buddhism. The writer’s name is Daisaku Ikeda
They talk about the importance of developing your life condition. I happened to discover some wonderful things about myself. How I learn, and how to protect myself. I’ve learned some interesting spiritual things about myself.
The Art of Saxophone Playing by Larry Teal
I have a really nice collection of very good books that deal not only with music, but how to maximize your time on this planet
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“I listen to a lot of guys, and I can tell that they don’t understand the significance of long tones. Consequently, they play out of tune. You can tell if someone’s been practicing or not”
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IS THERE ANY MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, YOU’D PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
I just like to listen to whatever comes up
A lot of the things that I am hearing are encouraging
A really fine saxophone player that I heard not too long ago is Mark Turner. He’s a real champion of mine
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Just waking up in the morning.
DO YOU STILL EXERCISE?
Of course; if you don’t you’ll die
The body is made to move. From the various things I’ve been exposed to, studying Hatha Yoga and the various things that inspire me give me life extension
I started the saxophone when I was 15. I’ve had some great teachers and have been given a ***lot of good tips, I saw a lot of examples, some were positive, others were negative; but you learn from everybody
I still have the first saxophone that I bought for myself, a Selmer Balanced Action. I haven’t played it in years. It was on some of the first recordings that I did with Horace Silver.
Over the time people have given me saxophones. You get to a point with a certain saxophone where you get to know what to expect
I’m now playing Eastman brand; my friend Bob Mintzer turned me on to them. I’m one of their artists.
I like ginger tea. The natural stuff is always the best.
AT 83, WHAT GOALS DO YOU HAVE FOR THE FUTURE?
To make this concert something that gives the public something that helps them.
I see music as being medicinal
I’m working on my autobiography, but I look at this book on my mentor (Sonny Rollins), Saxophone Colossus, and it’s so big! It’s two books in one! A massive amount of work.
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“I see music as being medicinal”
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WHAT’S THE BIGGEST CHANGE THAT YOU’VE SEEN IN MUSICIANS OR THE MUSIC SCENE SINCE YOU BEGAN?
It’s forever changing
As the study of the music has become more academically based, the flavor has become very different.
Technology has changed the way we learn everything, So m any guys now put on their transcriptions and they go to work.
I’m from the land of the dinosaurs! (laughs)
I learned it all one on one taking private lessons, and just listening, listening.
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“I’m from the land of the dinosaurs”
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IT IS REVEALING THAT BENNIE MAUPIN CONFESSES THAT HE COMES FROM THE LAND OF THE DINOSAURS, BECAUSE, IN CASE YOU HAVEN’T NOTICED, IT IS THE DINOSAURS THAT HAVE PROVIDED US THE ‘FOSSIL FUELS’ THAT WE RELY ON FOR DAILY LIFE. SIMILARLY, IT HAS BEEN’S BENNIE MAUPIN AND HIS GENERATION THAT HAVE GIVEN US THE FOUNDATION AND INSPIRATION FOR ALL WORTHWHILE MUSIC TO THIS DATE.
MAKE IT A POINT TO SEE THIS LEGEND WHENEVER HE COMES TO TOWN, AS YOU’LL BE HEARING HISTORY WHEN GIANTS ROAMED THE EARTH.