AT AN AGE WHEN MOST PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR THER SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS, BASSIST TONY LEVIN HAS HAD ARGUABLY THE BUSIEST YEAR OF HIS CAREER. NOT ONLY HAS HE BEEN TOURING WITH BROTHER/KEYBOARDIST PETER IN THE SWINGING GROUP “BAND OF BROTHERS” WITH LA BARBERA BROTHERS JOE, PAT AND JOHN, BUT HE WAS IN TOWN WITH HIS FUSION BAND STICK MEN, STUFFING THE BAKED POTATO WITH INTRICATE SOUNDS AND DIRECTIONS.
MOST RECENTLY, HE’S RECENTLY EMBARKED ON A TOUR WITH HIS LATEST GROUP, BEAT, WHICH REUNITES VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE 1980s KING CRIMSON BAND ALONG WITH GUITARIST STEVE VAI. SIMULTANEOUSLY, LEVIN HAS JUST RELEASED A RARE SOLO OUTING, NOTED BEST FOR HIS TEAMING WITH THE CREME OF THE CROP DRUMMERS SUCH AS STEVE GADD AND VINNIE CALAIUTA, TO NAME JUST A COUPLE. WHEW!
AND, TO SHOW THAT THE AGE OF MIRACLES HAS NOT CEASED, WE ACTUALLY FOUND LEVIN AT HIS HOME BETWEEN TOURS AND STUDIO SESSIONS, LETTING US IN ON HIS PAST, CURRENT AND FUTURE PROJECTS. THE TIME WAS INSPIRING!
YOU HAVE TWO NEW PROJECTS, YOUR SOLO ALBUM AND YOUR WORK WITH BEAT
The tour is called “BEAT” and there is no album with that. It’s the King Crimson music of the 1980s
Simultaneously, on September 12, I am releasing a solo album. I haven’t done a solo album in 10-15 years.
I have a wonderful problem which keeps me from finishing it, and that I’m doing too much road work! (laughs)
I love playing live; It’s my favorite thing to do. So, that’s a very good problem to have
However, earlier this year I carved out a few months to finish the tracks that I had been working on.
I’ve got some wonderful guys to play on it, so I’m very excited about it. That album is called Bringing It Down To The Bass . It’s got a lot of music on it, fourteen tracks
I started most of the tracks with a bass riff, groove or different technique to create bass sounds.
I carefully chose which drummer to have bring them to life, so it’s got an all star cast of drummers as well as guitar players backing me up. They brought the music to life.
We’ve arranged the album to be released simultaneously with the BEAT tour, which was another project.
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“It gets me how these players come in to help you with your album, and it’s just one or two hours of their time and they go home, but what they contribute is priceless”
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YOUR ALBUM HAS A FANTASTIC SONG THAT GIVES TRIBUTE TO DRUMMERS. I DON’T THINK PEOPLE APPRECIATE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE DRUMMER AND BASSIST. WHAT DID YOU LOOK FOR IN THE DRUMMERS YOU CHOSE FOR THIS ALBUM?
It is a very special relationship. Without it being visible to people that are watching, hopefully the bass player and drummer are locked in as the rhythm section, and are aware of what each other is doing, and ad libbing whatever is happening on stage on every song.
Since I’ve been doing this bass thing since the earth cooled (laughs), I’ve been lucky to have a lot of close friends who are great drummers. As any bass player who reads this knows, I’m a lucky guy to play with Steve Gadd , Vinnie Calautti, Manu Katche and Mike Portnoy, it’s pretty amazing
As far as what I listen for in a drummer, that’s not really my process
If I’m playing with a drummer that I haven’t worked with before and who’s playing I don’t know, I just listen to what he plays and I lock into it.
If I can’t, then we’ve got an issue, but usually we can.
Also, these days we have a thing called a “Click Track” which complicates things. I’m very lucky; I work with very good drummers who not only play in time (meaning they don’t speed up or slow down), but they also have a very good feel for “the pocket” and “the groove”. My job is to slot into that groove.
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“when I started to play rock, I had to learn how to lay back and play in the back of the beat. So I was lucky to be schooled by Gadd for years, as we played together on and off.”
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SPEAKING OF GROOVES, YOU STARTED WITH GADD!
I was a classical player, and way into it. At a young age I was in a symphony orchestra in Rochester, NY.
How lucky is this? I happened to be in music school with this guy named Steve Gadd. He was already great and already a little bit known. We were around twenty
He had nobody to do gigs with, because all of the bass players were classical. But I said, “Well, I do it” and he quietly mentored me into how to play the “feel” of jazz. At that point I could play along, but as you know, classical players play right on the beat, and in jazz you want to play a little on top of the beat (without speeding up). I didn’t know how to do that, but Steve was very patient with me, and I learned how to do it.
Later, when I started to play rock, I had to learn how to lay back and play in the back of the beat. So I was lucky to be schooled by Gadd for years, as we played together on and off.
We toured together back then, so needless to say I’m thrilled to have him on one track on this new album, “Espressoville”. The song starts off the album as with the way I start off my day, with the sound of the Espresso machine every day of my life! (laughs)
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“(Oscar Pettiford) played the perfect notes in the most minimal context so that anything extra he did was very special”
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ARE YOU GOING TO DO A TOUR WITH MUSIC FROM YOUR ALBUM?
No plans for the present as on the same day of the release of the album I am embarking on the very extensive BEAT tour, playing the music of King Crimson from the 1980s along with my King Crimson buddy Adrian Belew, who wrote almost all of the stuff. He’ll be singing and playing guitar
What is unusual is that we’re not by the rest of the King Crimson band of the 80s, but by Steve Vai who will be playing Robert Fripp’s guitar parts. HE’s an amazing guitar player. Then, the very well known drummer of Tool, Danny Carey, will be with us. I’ve played with him in various contexts. So, we’re going to kind of go back to that music but also kind of reinvent it. It’s great material.
I’m thrilled with it. We’ve got 65 shows across the US
SO, WE’VE TALKED ABOUT DRUMMERS. BUT, WHAT DO YOU LOCK INTO WHEN YOU HAVE THREE DRUMMERS AS IN KING CRIMSON?
If we talk about King Crimson, we first have to talk about the founder, Robert Fripp.
Talk about luck
In 1976 I was called to play on an album by a young artist that I didn’t know about, named Peter Gabriel. He had just left his band Genesis, which I also had never heard of.
On that session I met a guitarist named Robert Fripp. King Crimson wasn’t active at that time; Fripp had disbanded it.
The next year, he asked me to play on his solo album, and in 81 we formed a new version of King Crimson, and I’ve been with them since, although we’re not currently touring
The version of what King Crimson is doing is Robert Fripp’s. When it’s revealed to him, then he takes action.
In 2012, when he first told me about playing with three drummers, my stomach dropped! I figured that as the bass player I’d be playing a lot less or change my sound to have less lows, as the bottom was going to be full.
But I trusted in Robert’s musical vision and sense of where we should go. And I realized that it wasn’t just “three drummers”, but three particular drummers who would fashion some new way and not just drum along. They fashioned such elaborate drum parts that it turned out to have plenty of low end. There were never two guys playing the bass drum on the same bar.
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“when ( Robert Fripp) first told me about playing with three drummers, my stomach dropped!”
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So, I did change my sound a little bit, but not in the way I thought. This is a good example of what is really special about being in King Crimson. If one can open up his musical mind to be open to Robert Fripp’s ideas, it always turns out to be worthwhile, and really different that what you would have normally done.
King Crimson is like the “Research and Development” of music. Both as a band and as individuals. A good example of that is the three drummers.
WHAT BIG BAND EXPERIENCE DID YOU HAVE AS A DRUMMER?
When I was living in Rochester in the 1960s, I was in Gap Mangione’s band. Sometimes we had a big band, but we played every day as a quartet. That’s where I met the wonderful drummer Joe LaBarbara. Again, I was so lucky!
I had not played with his brother Pat. I played in big band contexts in school, but I didn’t go on the road with them.
I finally got to meet Pat LaBarbara
When I got out of school, I got a lot of gigs in Rochester, but Pat called to ask me if I’d join Buddy Rich’s big band on the road. In those days, being “on the road” meant that you were on the road ALL of the time, not just some of the time
So, I said “yes” and got rid of all of my stuff and went to Boston with whatever I had left in a station wagon to leave at my folks’ house. I was to leave for Europe the next day. I then arrived and did what was called “reading the book” over the shoulder of the guy that played before me.
When I arrived at the airport gate, I was told that Buddy had changed his mind, and that the bass player was staying. Welcome to the music business!
There I was, having left and said “goodbye” to everyone. So, I was in the Buddy Rich band for a theoretical minute. (laughs)
What happened to me personally was after some thought I just turned the station wagon around and went to NYC. I think otherwise I would not have gone there. It worked out well. A few years later I became a “studio musician”
Then, maybe a year later, the Buddy Rich band came into town, and they needed a bass player!
Buddy had known nothing about what had gone on before. I was hired to play a week with his big band and then record an album. This was in 1974 because the album was called The Roar of 74.
I was in the band very briefly, but I thoroughly enjoyed it . They then asked me if I would like to leave New York and go on the road. I said “Thank you very much, but I wont be doing that!” (laughs)
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“King Crimson is like the “Research and Development” of music. Both as a band and as individuals”
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IS THERE ANYTHING YOU’VE NOTICED IN THE GENERATION BEFORE YOU THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN OTHER GENERATIONS OF MUSICIANS?
I’ll precede this by saying that I’m not a huge listener. I’m not an expert.
I spend so much time doing new music that I don’t do my homework and listen to new music and someone else as much as I ought to.
My brother Pete is three years older than I; he was the one who could afford records, so I grew up listening to his records. This was the age of “Cool Jazz”. It was a wonderful era
I became a fan, unknowingly, of Oscar Pettiford. He was on most of the albums that I heard. I was only 11 years old and not playing much jazz then, but looking back I was extremely influenced by him. Not just in terms of jazz, but also just in terms of looking at the bass itself. He wasn’t particularly on top of the beat; he was more right on the beat. but he played the perfect notes in the most minimal context so that anything extra he did was very special. His solos were minimal
and great. And in that style of music everyone solo’d very short; one guy would do a verse and the next guy would do the chorus and then they’d go out. Each track was 2-3 minutes long
Things were different before that, and things were different after that. That’s the jazz that I grew up in
Had Oscar been playing way on top of the beat, then it could have been that I would have played that way in high school, but I had not heard that more bebop style of playing. Steve Gadd mentored me to play that way when I was in my twenties
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“In those days, being “on the road” meant that you were on the road ALL of the time, not just some of the time”
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WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR BIGGEST BAPTISM BY FIRE AS A MUSICIAN?
When I was in Rochester in the jazz clubs, and when they would allow someone to sit in, I would come and take my turn. It wasn’t that hard because the visiting jazz guys from New York would have come off the stage by then, and I was playing with my school guys (laughs)
I was never much of a soloist; I don’t focus on it much. I mean I can play a solo when I want to, but I just don’t do it much.
But when I was in Gary Burton’s band we played Carnegie Hall with a big audience, and there was a rare bass solo. There was no problem, there I was with the Fender bass, and the strap broke! That had never happened to me before, and here it was during a solo, which is what I rarely do
You can’t control the Fender bass when the strap breaks, so I’m standing there on one leg, like a flamingo, with the other leg folded up to support the bass, trying to play a decent solo
My balance has never been my fine point, so I’m trying to balance myself by swiveling my foot. It was one of my more difficult moments on stage.
SINCE YOU USUALLY DON’T SOLO, ARE YOU TAKING ON YOUR NEW RELEASE? WAS IT A CONSCIOUS DECISION, OR DID IT JUST EVOLVE?
It wasn’t a conscious decision. If I’m in charge of the music, of course it’s going to be the way I want it. Yes, I do play some solos, but It is not an “unveiling of the solo me”. On about half the tracks I do play a solo
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“If one can open up his musical mind to be open to Robert Fripp’s ideas, it always turns out to be worthwhile, and really different that what you would have normally done.”
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WHAT THOUGHTS WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND WHEN YOU LISTENED BACK ON THE ALBUM?
When you make an album, you listen to it a million times. All the mixes and the masters; I’m still checking the vinyl masters. You get real familiar with it.
My favorite moment on the album, no question is when the great alto player Alex Foster comes in to play on the title track, “Bringing It Down To The Bass”. He was part of the horn section that I had brought in. Before the song I thought “ I can’t have Alex hear and not have him play a solo”. So, as the song actually ends, another bass groove comes in and I asked Alex to solo on it as it fades out.
What he played on it still gets to me; it’s my favorite point on the album. It gets me how these players come in to help you with your album, and it’s just one or two hours of their time and they go home, but what they contribute is priceless. You cannot put a price on what he played on the end of that song. Unwritten; I just said “Go ahead, play”
I can’t even put a value on the happiness that it’s given me
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*I’m at that stage in my career where I can do stuff because I love it”
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I”VE SEEN YOU PLAY IN VARIOUS SETTINS WITH KING CRIMSON, STICK MEN AND THE BAND OF BROTHERS. YOU SEEMED MOST RELAXED AND HAPPY WITH THE BOPPERS. AM I WRONG?
I can’t address what look is on my face, and that’s probably good that I don’t know (laughs)
They are definitely all different bands, and I love all the bands that I get to tour with. There are some bands whose tours I cancelled because I wouldn’t have loved it.
I’m at that stage in my career where I can do stuff because I love it.
Those three bands are really different circumstances musically. The amount of complexity and mental work, you could say mental anguish (laughs) that goes into playing a King Crimson show and to some degree a Stick Men show (which is three guys trying to play music written for seven guys) requires a level of mental activity which could reflect on my face.
When I’m playing with Stick Men, I’m using both hands, playing both the guitar and bass part, so there’s no moment to not only pick up a camera and take a picture like I could do with Peter Gabriel, but there’s no moment to do anything but to play that music from beginning to end of each song. That is reflected in the concentration needed for each show.
Now, in very different circumstances, here I am at the Baked Potato with my brother, who I’ve played with since literally day one of not only my life, but my music career. We know each other inside and out, so there’s no pressure. I can stop, blow my nose, change strings and he’ll say, “tony, just play some bass with the left hand” . So there’s that.
Then, I’m also with the great drummer Joe LaBarbera, whose groove is unique and very special. Not only is there no pressure, but playing with him is a joy. I get to join in this perfect groove: what can go wrong? (laughs) It’s only me, so I don’t have to sweat it out.
And, Pat’s stories and his musical history. You can hear his history in his playing. You can hear where he’s come from and he does it so well. So I get to hear his and Pat’s solos, which I love.
’m happy because maybe I can relax more in that setting.
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“You can hear (Pat La Barbera’s) history in his playing. You can hear where he’s come from and he does it so well”
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YOU COME FROM A JEWISH BACKGROUND WHERE YOU’RE EITHER A DOCTOR, A LAWYER OR A FAILURE. WHEN YOU AND PETE WANTED TO BECOME MUSICIANS, DID THEY ENCOURAGE OR DISCOURAGE YOU?
That’s a great question. I’ve never been asked that!
The Jewish tradition is that you should be educated in music.
So you’ve got to play piano. In my father’s time, you could also play violin or nothing else.
So, we were given piano lessons and then told to pick an instrument. I don’t know why, but I picked the bass, but I think it was a good decision, since I’m still doing it. . (laughs)
Pete picked the French horn, and later went back to piano
Yes, they wanted us to become doctors or in a “profession”. Especially my mom; she was a little unhappy when it became apparent that Pete was going to music school and not medical school.
And me, three years behind in every way, I was following my older brother. I still am. We ***never turned down a gig. We’d always take every gig because you never know if a great drummer will be on it or you might meet somebody.
By the time I came around, they had taken a deep breath and accepted that we were both going to be musicians, and they were both supportive after that. They were not the kind of parents that said we must do this or that.
In a way, it was there fault because they provided us with all of this great education. ***Education will do that: it will send people in their own direction.
YOU’VE PLAYED WITH SO MANY ARTISTS OF MANY GENERATIONS. DO YOU NOTICE ANYTHING DIFFERENT ABOUT TODAY’S GENERATION OF ARTISTS?
No, because I don’t collate that way.
That’s just not the way my brain works.
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“playing with (Joe La Barbera) is a joy. I get to join in this perfect groove: what can go wrong?”
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DOES IT EVER DAWN ON YOU WHEN YOU’RE ON STAGE THAT YOU THINK “I’M ACTUALLY PLAYING WITH SO AND SO (LIKE KING CRIMSON)”?
No.
***Usually when I’m on stage with someone or do an album with them, I don’t really consider how famous that person is or how many records this might sell.
***For instance, when I was called to play on John Lennon’s record, I showed up and introduced myself, he said “They tell me you’re really good. Just don’t play too many notes.” I said “OK” but I wasn’t thinking “This is John Lennon telling me this”. I just felt that this is the artist and writer.
I laughed, because I knew that I wouldn’t play too many notes, but maybe he thought that I was some flashy guy who would overplay his songs
The same with David Bowie and when I met Peter Gabriel. They were well known, but I didn’t know they were well known.
The big thing with being on stage with performers like Peter Frampton, Paul Simon, James Taylor or Peter Gabriel is that they are such good performers, besides the great music they put out. The feeling is like “Wow, I’m on stage with this guy, and it’s going to happen by itself. How lucky I am to be behind him”. So, I’m going to play my best.
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“a Stick Men show (which is three guys trying to play music written for seven guys) requires a level of mental activity which could reflect on my face”
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NOW THAT YOU’RE 80, HOW DO YOU KEEP IN SHAPE CHOPS WISE AND BODY WISE?
I’m a bit lucky to be healthy, as most guys my age have hand, wrist and finger problems.
That will mess you up as a player.
When I found myself on tour with King Crimson member John Wetton, whose parts I’ve been playing for 40 years, I saw that he had bad carpal tunnel syndrome. He had actually taped the pick to his fingers! He amazingly played great and he sounded the same
I’m lucky in my health.
I’ve been a vegetarian for a long time, and I’m careful to take care of myself as do many people my age
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“We never turned down a gig. We’d always take every gig because you never know if a great drummer will be on it or you might meet somebody”
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WHAT WAS THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE GAVE YOU REGARDING MUSIC OR CAREER?
When I was a youngster playing jazz in Rochester with a bunch of pickup guys. After the show, I was whining, saying “Ah, I didn’t play well tonight”
The band leader, an older, salty bebop guy, said to me “Nobody gives a S&$# how you feel about your playing”. I learned a good lesson; after that I’ve never complained about my playing again, even if I was unhappy with it.
When I hear other people complaining about it, I understand why he said that. No one wants to hear about it.
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS NOW?
This year was the busiest year I’ve had in a long time. Next year is a mystery.
I hope I’ll have some good touring next year with various bands. If I have time, I’ll form a band with my new material. Besides that, I have Band of Brothers, Stick Men and Peter Gabriel might do some more stuff
The BEAT tour will definitely continue through next year. My plan is to be grateful for what I’ve got
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“(John Lennon) said “They tell me you’re really good. Just don’t play too many notes.” I said “OK” but I wasn’t thinking “This is John Lennon telling me this”. I just felt that this is the artist and writer”
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DO YOU NOTICE IF YOU PLAY DIFFERENTLY ACCORDING TO THE SIZE OF THE ROOM?
No, with one exception.
The bass sound in a club can be the bass sound that I want and have. If it’s a bigger place or a theatre, or a big arena such as with Peter Gabriel, the low end is just inappropriate because it is so reverberant. There is so much low end from them spending four hours on the drum sound and three minutes on the bass sound, so if it’s too “bassy” the sound guy will just turn me down. So, I have to bring up the mid range (500-600 cycles), which I don’t want and pull down the 200 cycles to 80 if it’s a big arena.
IN ALL OF YOUR YEARS, HAS THERE ANY ONE THAT HAS REALLY IMPRESSED YOU WITH THEIR MUSICAL MIND?
Yes and no.
There have been certain people I’ve met that I’ve been in awe of when I heard them, for example Alan Holdsworth, who I later got to play with, completely free. We went on tour and it was completely improvised
But that never leads to me wanting to pick their brain
There’s been one exception. 1966, Andy Newson, NY bass player in Rochester with Jackie and Roy, and he was the first one I saw play a Fender bass. I went up to him and asked “Where is that , and where can I get one?” It was the kid in me!
We became great friends. He told me how to get it, “And don’t get a new one; get a used one”. There was no such expression such as “vintage” back then. Of course, a used one was cheaper than a new one. A new one was $220, and a 1965 Fender bass was $180, so I bought the used one to save some money.
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“The band leader, an older, salty bebop guy, said to me “Nobody gives a S&$# how you feel about your playing”. I learned a good lesson; after that I’ve never complained about my playing again, even if I was unhappy with it”
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IS THERE ANY PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGION THAT HAS BEEN YOUR MORAL COMPASS?
I need about an hour to think about that one. I don’t have one consistent thing. If I were to stand outside myself and describe it, I would pretty much say “Stoicism” . I don’t necessarily decide to follow it, but when I read about it, I think that this is the way I am.
It’s a confusing thing to say, because “Being Stoic” means two things in English: to be cold-blooded and not care about things, or to be a follower of those specific Greek philosophers. And, they said basically to live a good life, and what it means to live a good life
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Family and music. I put them equally. How lucky I am to have a wonderful life in music as well as a great family. And friends.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
I won’t mind what they say, as I won’t be around! (laughs)
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“My plan is to be grateful for what I’ve got”
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YOU MIGHT NEVER HAVE REALIZED THAT YOU’VE HEARD TONY LEVIN, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY SIZE OF AN ALBUM COLLECTION, HE’S SOMEWHERE IN THERE. THE KEY, HOWEVER IS TO COME SEE HIM IN CONCERT, EITHER WITH HIS CURRENTLY TOURING GROUP BEAT, GETTING BACK WITH STICK MEN, OR HOPEFULLY ON A FAMILY REUNION WITH THE BAND OF BROTHERS. ALL SHOWS PROMISE TO SHOW THE HEART BEAT OF A LION.