YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE THIS, BUT AT ONE TIME MODERN JAZZ WAS ACTUALLY POPULAR AND HAD “HIT” RECORDS!
NO, I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP
BEFORE YOUTUBE AND TIC TOCK, THE RADIO AIRWAVES WERE FILLED WITH CONTEMPORARY AND PROGRESSIVE JAZZ, WITH ARTISTS LIKE CHICK COREA’S RETURN TO FOREVER AND WEATHER REPORT FILLING ARENAS.
ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR ARTISTS WAS TENOR SAXIST JOHN KLEMMER, WHO STARTED HIS FAME WITH THE PROGRESSIVE BIG BAND OF DON ELLIS AND THEN HAD A STRING OF HIS OWN ALBUMS THAT EVEN FANS OF THE EAGLES WOULD PURCHASE. TOUCH, BAREFOOT BALLET AND ARABESQUE MIXED ACCESSIBLE GROOVES WITH SOME SERIOUSLY RICH SAXOPHONE SOLOING, WITH KLEMMER’S DISTINCTIVE ECHOPLEX BEING A SIGNATURE OF HIS STYLE. IT CAUGHT ON LIKE WILDFIRE.
FOR AWHILE, HE SEEMED TO DISAPPEAR FROM THE SCENE, AND THERE WERE TONS OF RUMORS FLYING AROUND AS TO HIS WHEREABOUTS.
WHERE HE WENT AND WHY HE’S BACK WITH A FANTASTIC NEW RELEASE, CHATEAU LOVE, ARE JUST A COUPLE OF THE TOPICS THAT COVER THIS CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH A MAN WHO SHOWS THAT JAZZ CAN BE FOR “THE MASSES”
BACK IN THE 1970S, YOUR ALBUMS WERE THE ENTRY LEVEL INTO JAZZ FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
By going through radio and press interviews regarding this new album, I am hearing that more and more
THOSE ALBUMS LIKE TOUCH, BALLET AND ARABESQUE, HAVE BEEN RETROSPECTIVELY LABELED “SMOOTH JAZZ”, BUT IN RETROSPECT, THEY ARE FAIRLY AGGRESSIVE. YOUR SOLOS ARE HIGHLY INFLUENCED BY COLTRANE, AND NOT KENNY G!
That was purposely done by myself
It’s sort of like offering someone a piece of cake that has a very sweet topping to it. But as one starts eating the cake, they find out that there’s a rich inner core to it.
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“(My albums are) sort of like offering someone a piece of cake that has a very sweet topping to it. But as one starts eating the cake, they find out that there’s a rich inner core to it”
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DID YOU HAVE A TEMPLATE TO USE FOR THOSE ALBUMS? THERE DIDN’T SEEM LIKE ANYTHING AT THE TIME TO COMPARE THOSE ALBUMS TO. THEY WEREN’T “MAINSTREAM” AND THEY WEREN’T “FUSION”.
It was a template that I invented for myself, of a style and for writing songs that I enjoyed. Putting pieces of ideas and structures together in order to create the songs that I did.
I then took those songs and created a whole new world in and of itself through a record. I really love making records as an art form
When I did Touch, Barefoot Ballet and all that, I created my own template of a certain style
Touch and Barefoot Ballet both have in many ways have a lot of different elements. One of those elements was a form in classical music called “Theme and Development”.
If you go back and listen to those albums, a lot of those songs sound very relative to the song that came before them. That was done on purpose
You take one theme, idea, musical motif, chord pattern or rhythmic pattern and you develop it, letting it evolve on top of itself. You add other flavors, ingredients, tempos and different types of melodies and instrumentation.
It’s a lot of fun; it’s like growing a flower in a garden
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“When I did Touch, Barefoot Ballet and all that, I created my own template of a certain style”
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AFTER THOSE ALBUMS GOT REALLY POPULAR, DID YOU GET INTIMIDATED AS TO WHAT TO DO NEXT FOR AN ENCORE?
That’s an interesting question.
No, I didn’t get intimidated. I was just so involved.
When I wrote the Touch album, and was sitting there early in the morning with the notes of “Touch” coming from my fingers to the keyboard, I just sat back and envisioned the whole album in my mind
I intuitively knew that I had something new and that people were going to really like. Obviously much bigger than I thought (laughs). I was pleasantly pleased about it.
When those albums got so big, I just kept on going
The only thing that I was intimidated by, if that’s the right word, was that I had made quite a few albums before Touch, and now all of a sudden the jazz press because I had a popular album, they said I couldn’t play!
It’s a common phenomenon that when a jazz artist gets a hit record which gets really popular, all of a sudden his quality is questioned. I read that a lot in the press that “John Klemmer has sold out”
I didn’t sell out; I cashed in! I didn’t cash in for the money; I cashed in for the art.
What was so incredibly validating about the success of Touch, etc. was that at that period **of time in my natural growth and maturation is that I had really come to a point where I had really found myself
When I was writing music for the Touch album, I felt that this was the real me. This was what I really love, and this was what I really do best, so I’m going to give it my all and put it out there
*People respond to sincerity. People can tell when they listen to a record if they’re being jived or not. They don’t have to know who the artist is, or anything about him; they can hear it in the music.
The music in Touch and Barefoot Ballet was totally and completely honest to my core. So when all of a sudden the jazz press decided that because I had a popular album I couldn’t play anymore, it was kind of ludicrous. It was also disappointing
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“If you go back and listen to those albums, a lot of those songs sound very relative to the song that came before them. That was done on purpose….It’s a lot of fun; it’s like growing a flower in a garden”
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THOSE ALBUMS ARE QUITE DECEIVING. THEY INITIALLY COME ACROSS AS MELLOW AND SMOOTH, BUT WHEN YOU START LISTENING TO THE ACTUAL SOLOS, YOU REALIZE THAT THIS IS NOT “BACKGROUND MUSIC” . YOU WERE GOING FOR IT!
It’s encouraging to hear that.
AS YOU KNOW, THE ART OF PLAYING ANY INSTRUMENT IS TO CREATE YOUR OWN SOUND. OTHER BRASS INSTRUMENTS LIKE TRUMPET AND TROMBONES HAVE MUTES AND PLUNGERS, BUT THE SAXES HAVE NOTHING
SO, HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THE ECHOPLEX TO CREATE A SIGNATURE SOUND? WERE YOU INSPIRED BY EDDIE HARRIS, OR SOMEONE ELSE?
The delay effect definitely became part of my signature sound, because I loved it so much.
About 1969 I got a call while living in Chicago from a West Coast band leader named Don Ellis. He was very much into electronics and stuff like that.
That’s what made me move from Chicago to Los Angeles. He just called me one evening out of the blue. I didn’t even know who he was; I never told him that (laughs)
I just knew that I had done everything that I could in Chicago, being on Chess records and playing with all of the great jazz artists, so I was getting a little bored
So when he asked if I’d like to come and join his band for a West Coast and European tour, as well as record, within two seconds I said “Sure!”
When I moved to Los Angeles, it only took me about a day or two, after all of the horrible weather in Chicago, with the muggy summers and cold winters that I said “I’m moving to Los Angeles”
One evening in Don’s band, I had a chart that had me featured as a soloist. Don had been using a lot of electronics on his horn, and you could plug into it. I walked up to the microphone, I remember hearing him use that delay effect. So when he counted off the song, I told him “plug me into that box”.
He plugged me into the Echo Plex. Don had to drag me off stage! I was having so much fun! (laughs) It was a sound that I had been looking for for years
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“I didn’t sell out; I cashed in! I didn’t cash in for the money; I cashed in for the art”
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Before I had gotten into the Echo Plex, before being exposed to John Coltrane’s “Sheets of Sound” approach, I had been doing some of that on my own. I was also trying to play lots of chords in an ethereal sound. With the Echo Plex and the delay, I could pile chord on top of chord and create a very heavenly sound that could be sustained
Don finally whispered in my ear “That’s it, John!” (laughs) This was after about ten minutes!
I rapidly learned that I could not own the patent to that electronic invention; it was owned and patented by someone else
So, I figured that the only way that I could “own” this sound was to record the hell out of it. (laughs) So I just kept on recording with it
Years later, I was hanging out in a little club in Los Angeles. I was meeting with the guys in the band, and there was a saxophone player. He says, “Man, John, you’re giving me a lot of trouble. I can’t use the delay because everyone says ‘It’s the John Klemmer sound”
I told him that I hated to admit it, but my plan worked! (laughs)
No one could use that delay effect in any extreme without being called a John Klemmer imitator. My plan worked! (laughs)
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“It’s a common phenomenon that when a jazz artist gets a hit record which gets really popular, all of a sudden his quality is questioned”
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WAS YOUR JOINING THE DON ELLIS BAND YOUR “BAPTISM BY FIRE”? THAT WAS A PRETTY PROGRESSIVE UNIT!
Yes!
When he first called me, I was just walking out of my apartment to go play at a commercial gig at some big political convention. I wasn’t going to answer the phone because I was late, but I figured it might be another gig, so I did.
Ellis explained to me who he was , and that he had heard my first album Involvement, and had read a 1967 Downbeat interview. He wanted to know if I wanted to come and join the band for a tour of Europe.
I told him I was bored and had nothing to do. “When do you want me there?” I had no idea; I didn’t even ask him for travel money.
So I go to my gig that night and am asking all of the guys in the band “Who’s Don Ellis?”
They ask me how I can possibly take a gig like that and not know who the guy is. I told them because I trust my intuition, and I trust the way that the world works.
I was sitting there and I just didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want live in New York because I didn’t want to fight the same weather as in Chicago. I didn’t want to stay in Chicago as I had done everything therein
You talk about a baptism by fire? The initial time with Don’s band , the first chart was 32/8! (laughs) Thirty two beats to the bar! 1 2 123 1 2 1 2 123 1 2 123 1 2 1 2 1 2 123 1 2 1 2 123 1 2 1 2 123 1 2 1 2 1 2 123. Beat one!
That’s how you had to count it out!
I was never crazy about those funny time signatures, so how I got through it was that instead of looking at it as 32/8, I just looked at it as one beat per bar
The other thing was that, because he had the whole band amplified at that time (even all of the brass was hooked up), by the second day being in Los Angeles, I had to go to a saxophone repairman and get a hole drilled into the neck of my horn in order to put a mount into it and put on an electric pickup.
The first rehearsal was 32/8, and the next day I was watching a guy drill a hole into my saxophone!
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“People respond to sincerity. People can tell when they listen to a record if they’re being jived or not. They don’t have to know who the artist is, or anything about him; they can hear it in the music
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I have used that pickup for the rest of my life, though.
It was a shock, but it was fun.
I didn’t necessarily enjoy all of Don’s writings and directions. They were his and I respected his way. I sure learned a lot, especially about electronics. It was a shock
I learned a lot about different structures of music because he was so much into weird time signatures. I also learned how to present his music to an audience
YOU’VE ALSO DONE WORK WITH STEELY DAN, THE DOORS’ RAY MANZAREK, LARRY CARLTON, HARVEY MASON, GEORGE DUKE AND DAVE GRUSIN. WAS THERE ANYONE WHO REALLY IMPRESSED YOU AS THE MOST MUSICAL MIND IN THE STUDIO?
To be honest, none of them, and all of them. I can’t pick out one particular fellow that impressed me more than another. They are all great guys.
Grusin is a fantastic composer and tremendous keyboard player. Larry Carlton plays great guitar with his own melodic contributions to my albums. Same with George Duke and Harvey Mason. None and all!
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“I figured that the only way that I could “own” this sound was to record the hell out of it. (laughs) So I just kept on recording with it”
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WERE YOU SURPRISED GETTING INTO THE ROCK SCENE? WERE YOU GIVEN SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS ON THOSE ALBUMS?
It was really “come in and do your thing”.
With Steely Dan, I just got a call. I was never much of a studio musician
I never did very many guest solos; it wasn’t my thing, but occasionally I would accept one.
I got a call from Steely Dan. I went to the studio, and sat down. The guys from Steely Dan were in the control room. I waved at them, and put the headphones on. They put the track on, and I was supposed to overdub a solo. As I was taking my saxophone out of the case, I was listening on the headphones to the track and getting some ideas as to what I wanted to play
The guys from the band came out and introduced themselves and asked if I was ready. I said “roll it”. The never asked me what I was going to do or told me what to do. That’s the ***highest degree of respect when another artist does that. It’s like “Do your thing, and whatever it is, we’ll love it”.
We did one take and the said “That’s a keeper”. They said, “let’s try a few more so we can then choose one”, so I did a few more. So I did that and left it up to them to decide.
****A lot of the rock and pop people, with the advent of new studio technology, can sometimes go overboard, getting too particular with minutia. They think about it too much, getting too meticulous and involved.
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“You talk about a baptism by fire? The initial time with Don’s band , the first chart was 32/8! (laughs) Thirty two beats to the bar… the next day I was watching a guy drill a hole into my saxophone!”
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WHAT IS FASCINATING IS THAT AT THE HEIGHT OF YOUR POPULARITY, YOU WENT AGAINST THE GRAIN AND DID AN UNACCOMPANIED SOLO ALBUM, CRY, AS IF YOU WERE THROWING DOWN A CHALLENGE TO YOUR AUDIENCE.
That was something that had been slowly evolving over the years.
Coming up in Chicago, I was really lucky in that I had some really long lasting nightclub gigs; five nights a week with two matinees. Nine to five every night. It sounds like a lot of hard work, but it was heaven when all you wanted to do was to play. And I got paid for it!
A lot of times during a set, I would turn around and have the rhythm section stop and I would simply play by myself. Back in the bebop days, they’d call it “strollin’”.
I’d be in the middle of a solo, turn to the rhythm section, take the horn out of my mouth and yell “stroll”, in which the rhythm section would stop and I’d just play by myself.
The key thing is to keep the tempo going in your head while your playing, and staying inventive enough to keep the listener involved and attentive. I used to do a lot of that all of the time.
Another thing is that I lived in a tiny one room apartment in Chicago, one block from Wrigley Field, and I couldn’t practice in that apartment.
What I did to practice is that I would go into 24 hour laundromats and practice all night in them. Every now and then I’d call a bass player friend of mine and he’d meet me at the laundromat and we’d do duets all night
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“They ask me how I can possibly take a gig like that and not know who the guy is. I told them because I trust my intuition, and I trust the way that the world works”
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When I was living at home with my parents it was hard to practice as much as I wanted. One time it was the middle of a snowstorm in Chicago, I was in their home in the suburbs, and I felt like practicing in the middle of the night. I couldn’t wake them up, so I crawled into the back seat of my father’s Cadillac and practiced there all night.
That’s how things evolved to get me to play an entire album on my own.
Then, when I discovered the Echo Plex, with the delay effect where I could create chords, it became like heaven on earth for me.
So when I was doing live shows I would do the same thing with the band; I would stop the band and start a solo section with my Echo plex and delay. It had such a hypnotic effect on the audience, and they loved it every time.
To be more precise, someone offered me some free studio time in a brand new, humungous studio in Tucson, Arizona. At that time I heard that my mother was passing away from cancer. They lived in Phoenix.
So I booked some time in this big studio and invited my mother and father to sit in the studio with me while I recorded that whole album Cry. I booked it there, in the middle of the desert, because I couldn’t get a studio in Los Angeles just for myself, as the word might get out.
So I went and picked up my parents and took them to Tucson. They sat in the studio 3-4 days while I did nothing but record solo sax
I came back with the tapes and talked to my attorney. Of course, the record company didn’t want to put it out, so that was a big fight
The attorney said at the time, when I was selling so many records, and my contract was close to being up, was that if they didn’t put my solo album out I wouldn’t re-sign. That’s how we got it out.
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“What I did to practice is that I would go into 24 hour laundromats and practice all night in them. Every now and then I’d call a bass player friend of mine and he’d meet me at the laundromat and we’d do duets all night”
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AFTER THAT YOU SEEMED TO HAVE GONE INTO EXILE FOR AWHILE WITH RUMORS FLYING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, INCLUDING GETTING CANCER. WHAT WAS YOUR REASON FOR THE ABSENCE, OR WAS IT NOT REALLY AN ABSENCE?
It wasn’t an exile. I had done that a few times before in my recording career. Every once in awhile a bell will go off in my ear, and I’d feel that it was just time to cool out and relax. I never stopped playing or anything like that.
But, because I never announced it people didn’t understand it. That’s how people would start these rumors. It’s really my fault because I never made a formal announcement of taking off a couple of years.
Did Sonny Rollins announce that he was going to take those times off? It was kind of like a Sonny Rollins sabbatical.
Once those rumors start it’s a bitch to close them up.
SO, HAVING DONE ALL OF THESE PROJECTS, WHAT IS YOUR IMPETUS FOR PUTTING OUT A NEW ALBUM AT THIS STAGE IN YOUR LIFE?
It’s time. It’s that simple. It just felt right.
I’m kind of an impulsive guy in a non-confrontational way my whole life. I go by my gut, instincts and feelings about what to do. Sometimes I’ll think “John, it’s time to cool out and not make any more records or tour anymore. Just stay home, write, practice, think and live”. This time, the bell went off in my head that it was time to start recording .
I never “stopped recording”; I record all of the time, either in studios or at home. It’s just a matter of whether I release them or not. It was time.
YOU HAVE A GOOD PHILOSOPHY ABOUT LIFE. IS THERE ANY BOOK, PHILOSOPHY OR RELGION THAT IS YOUR MORAL COMPASS?
That is a great question. All my life I’ve just realized that I’m a lucky guy, and have been gifted with my own compass since I first started playing
The only philosophies that I have found are my own, which is to always be honest, real and truthful. I love beauty; I go where the beauty is
YOU HAVE A GOOD PHILOSOPHY ABOUT LIFE. IS THERE ANY BOOK, PHILOSOPHY OR RELGION THAT IS YOUR MORAL COMPASS?
That is a great question. I’m very grateful. All my life I’ve just realized that I’m a lucky guy, and have been gifted with my own compass since I first started playing
The only philosophies that I have found are my own, which is to always be honest, real and truthful. I love beauty; I go where the beauty is; I go where the honesty is. I go where the humanity is. Those are the things that I’ve followed my whole life.
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“I love beauty; I go where the beauty is”
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HOW ABOUT ANY BOOKS THAT YOU’VE READ THAT HAVE INFLUENCED YOU?
It’s funny that you asked that, because I’ve just re-ordered his books in order to re-read them.
Carl Jung was very influential to me. It was very influential in my creating Touch.
Carl Jung had a phrase that I read in his book, that really struck me. He called it a “collective unconscious”.
He meant that there are universal things that connect all human beings on a subconscious and emotional level. That’s what I used in Touch. That’s why it was so popular. It was universal
I tried to touch on the thoughts, attitudes, feelings ,emotions and values that connect all human beings, no matter what race, color, country or creed. That’s what I use on my albums
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“The key thing is to keep the tempo going in your head while your playing, and staying inventive enough to keep the listener involved and attentive”
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WHAT MUSICIAN WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
John Coltrane.
BESIDES JUNG, IS THERE ANYONE LIVING OR DEAD THAT YOU’D LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
I can’t think of anyone else off to the top of my head besides him.
WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
To keep on living!
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
He kept on living! (laughs)
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Creating beauty.
ARE YOU EVER GOING TO DO CONCERTS AGAIN?
I’m not scheduled to perform right now. Maybe with the success of this album Chateau Love, which is doing so well, enough pull will be created for me to start performing live again.
What I’m focusing on now, is Chateau Love, Volume 2
I’m also going through my tape library, and have been finding the alternate and outtakes from the Touch and Barefoot Ballet albums and I’m putting them together as an album.
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“I tried to touch on the thoughts, attitudes, feelings ,emotions and values that connect all human beings, no matter what race, color, country or creed. That’s what I use on my albums”
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IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE THAT SAYS “I JUST DON’T LIKE JAZZ”, DO THEM A FAVOR AND GET THEM ONE OF JOHN KLEMMER’S ALBUMS FROM THE 1970S. IF YOU THINK TODAY’S JAZZ IS TOO CACOPHONIC, DO YOUR OWN EARS A FAVOR AND CHECK OUT KLEMMER’S CHATEAU OF LOVE. IS IT SMOOTH? IS VINTAGE WINE SMOOTH?