IN THIS DAY WHERE BANDS KEEP TOGETHER FOR SHORTER PERIODS OF TIME THAN HOLLYWOOD MARRIAGES, DRUMMER BILL STEWART HAS HAD THE HONOR OF BEING IN TWO LONG LASTING TEAMS.
HE FIRST HAD A LONG ASSOCIATION WITH GUITARIST JOHN SCOFIELD, AND STILL OCCASIONALLY TOURS WITH HIM.
EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE IS HIS DECADES-LONG TRIO WITH KEYBOARDIST LARRY GOLDINGS AND GUITARIST PETER BERNSTEIN. THEY’VE PUT OUT AN IMPRESSIVE CATALOGUE TOGETHER, WITH A PERFECT MIX OF MOOD, MELODY AND IMPROVISATION. I’VE SEEN THEM TOGETHER A NUMBER OF TIMES, AND THE MUSIC BORDERS ON THE TELEPATHIC.
STEWART ALSO HAS FORMED HIS OWN GROUP, AND IS AN IMPRESSIVE COMPOSER ON HIS OWN. ON THIS INTERVIEW WE HAD WITH HIM, STEWART GIVES BACKGROUND TO ALL OF THESE ASPECTS OF HIS CAREER. AS EXPECTED, THE ANSWERS WERE TIMELY AND THOUGHTFUL, LIKE HIS PLAYING
THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER, YOU HAVE HAD LONG ASSOCIATIONS WITH JOHN SCOFIELD, AND YOUR TRIO WITH LARRY GOLDINGS AND PETER BERNSTEIN. WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES OF SUCH LONG LASTING PARTNERSHIPS LIKE THESE, LASTING THROUGH DECADES?
Over the course of times in both of those situations there has been an artistic development.
With Sco, I’ve been in a lot of different bands; in some cases the bands lasted for awhile, like the one with Joe Lovano. We’ve been doing this latest trio with Vicente Archer for awhile, and we were together for a long time with Steve Swallow. That was for a number of years; Steve is not available currently, so we haven’t been doing that trio.
The trio with Vicente has been great.
In these situations, everyone likes working together; we come back after doing a few other things, and it always feels fresh. There’s a musical trust there
With Larry and Peter, we all contribute compositions, so it’s a good place for us to develop our songs and repertoire.
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“A bassist that can come up with some surprises and still keep the basic structure of the music is important”
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IN THE EARLY DAYS OF JAZZ, DRUMMERS WERE EXPECTED TO SIMPLY KEEP A GROOVE. YOUR PLAYING FEELS MORE INTUITIVE. DO YOU APPROACH THE SAME SONG THE SAME WAY, OR IS IT A “CLEAN SLATE” EACH TIME?
I ASK THIS BECAUSE YOUR PLAYING ON THE SCOFIELD ALBUM FEELS ALMOST SPONTANEOUS, VARIED AND CONVERSATIONAL
Working with John for a long time, I’ve noticed that in the bands that I play with him, I’ve noticed that he tends to not like a repetitive beat in a tune. I like to be interactive as well, so everything that we do has a lot of interaction in it.
There may be a set groove that I play more or less every time, there’s a basic feeling that I play, but I don’t play the same thing bar after bar; there’s a lot of interaction. It’s very conversational.
With a trio, especially, it becomes conversational because there’s quite a bit of space. Nobody is comping for John, so there’s a space open for me and Vicente.
it’s a lot like bebop in a way, except that John’s tunes are in that style. It’s as interactive as bebop, but it’s in a totally different feel.
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“I like to be interactive as well, so everything that we do has a lot of interaction in it”
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TRADITIONALLY, A DRUMMER PAYS MOST ATTENTION TO THE BASSIST, BUT IN TRIOS LIKE THESE, WHO DO YOU LOCK IN WITH?
I have to listen to everybody; and there are only two other musicians to listen to. (chuckles)
I have to cover two things. I have to cover the stability of the groove part of it, and also the interactive part.
It’s possible for a musician to become over-interactive and go out on a limb too much, where you leave the groove behind.
WHO TAUGHT YOU THIS APPROACH?
Not one person. It would be a list of fifty people! (laughs)
YOU HAVE BEEN IN BANDS THAT HAD DEEP GROOVES, BEING WITH JAMES BROWN AND MACEO PARKER. WHAT GEARS DO YOU HAVE TO SHIFT FOR STRICT R&B?
I played with Maceo for a solid gear, making his gigs on the road, and I did a couple of records with him.
As far as the funk music we made, it is a more repetitive beat, where I would add a little interaction here and there. It’s more about laying down the groove and keeping it happening with the right tempo, energy and feeling for it.
I wouldn’t be as likely to do something whimsical in that situation, because you don’t want to leave that groove.
With what I’ve been doing with Sco (John Scofield) recently, I want to have the groove be just as strong in a way, but it is more interactive, and there are more different things happening from bar to bar
Both things are great, but they are different.
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“I don’t play the same thing bar after bar; there’s a lot of interaction. It’s very conversational”
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DID BROWN OR PARKER GIVE YOU SPECIFIC ADVICE, OR DO YOU HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT ON YOUR OWN?
I played one day with James Brown at a rehearsal and a TV filming. That was within a space of 24 hours and was my one time with James. I wish I could have done better
James did say something to me, “Don’t lift your sticks so high to play my music”. That really made sense to me later. His music is very crisp and on top. Everything has to be extremely accurate and not at all late or laid back. His music isn’t a laid back/fat back kind of funk; it’s a very exact thing
His drummers during the classic stuff in the 60s didn’t tend to play really loud, but they had to be crisp. If you keep your sticks closer, it’s easier to get the right feeling for that music.
HAVE YOU EVER HAD A GIG OR RECORDING SESSION THAT WAS LIKE A BAPTISM BY FIRE?
The first Maceo Parker was like that, because it was a big surprise for me that I was even doing it. I only got the call a day before the rehearsals
DO YOU APPROACH YOUR PLAYING DIFFERENTLY IF THE SETTING IS WITH A PIANO AS OPPOSED TO KEYBOARDS?
Yes; I have to be sensitive to the dynamics of the group with which I play.
If I play with Larry (Goldings) and Peter (Bernstein), for instance, there will be a pretty wide dynamic range because the organ has a wide range. The organ can be pretty loud or soft. Larry, more than most other organ players, definitely exploits that, which is great for the drums, as drums can do exactly the same thing
When I play with piano, there is generally not as wide a dynamic range, and most piano players don’t want to bang the instrument and have that kind of tone, depending on the style.
With the piano I have to have a lower ceiling in terms of the volume.
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“It’s possible for a musician to become over-interactive and go out on a limb too much, where you leave the groove behind”
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YOU’VE PLAYED WITH THREE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF MUSICIANS, LEE KONITZ, MICHAEL BRECKER AND PAT METHENY. THESE ARE THREE DIFFERENT WORLDS!
I would say Brecker and Metheny are less different from each other than Konitz! (laughs) Konitz is the outlier there!
I really enjoyed my time playing with Lee. That was in my early years in New York; I was playing with Lee before I played with Scofield.
We had a regular gig at the West End Gate, I was the regular drummer with everyone else as the revolving cast. The band that appeared the most was Kenny Werner and Ron McClure, and we did a record.
Lee liked to play standards, but he liked to play free. Sometimes we didn’t go on stage knowing which songs we were going to play. He would start something, or point to someone else and say “Start something”, and we’d end up with “The Song Is You”, “’Round Midnight” or whatever it might be.
Lee was a real improvisor, and I always heard the Lester Young influence in him. I really appreciated that; it was his favorite saxophonist
WHAT WAS YOUR BIGGEST TAKEAWAY FROM YOUR TIME WITH HIM?
Really listen. The decisions that you make will definitely affect the music.
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“everyone likes working together; we come back after doing a few other things, and it always feels fresh. There’s a musical trust there”
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HOW ABOUT YOUR GLEANINGS FROM BRECKER AND METHENY?
I did a tour and record with both of them; they have quite a history together from Pat’s record 80/81.
I had a great time with Pat and the trio with Larry Grenadier. Pat’s a great guitarist and prolific composer. We played songs from all different eras, including some of the Pat Metheny Group stuff that we could play as a trio. He trusted Larry and me to play that stuff, as well as swing and ballads.It was a mix of moods in every set…that was really fun.
I did do a tour with Brecker and Metheny together, with Larry Goldings, and Michael’s record Time Is Of The Essence. I did a few tracks there and a few gigs with Michael’s band; I found him extremely easy to work with
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“It’s more about laying down the groove and keeping it happening with the right tempo, energy and feeling for it”
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DO ANY OF THESE LEADERS GIVE YOU SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS?
Mostly the trusted me, but once in awhile they would say a little something which is a good way to do it,
I like to be trusted to come up with something that feels good to me, and that I can play to my strengths as well. When I’m a band leader, I try to do it like that as well.
I try to let people bring their own decisions to the music rather than planning it all out
Other people plan it all out, or are very “hands on” with their sidemen. That’s fine if you want to do that. But I prefer the other way.
BESIDES DRUMMING, YOU DO QUITE A BIT OF COMPOSING. HOW DID THAT BEGIN?
I first got interested in composition my first year in college; I took a composition course and took music theory and ear training. That was very helpful for me.
When it comes to composing, I just have to have an idea to start something and then create and bring it to fruition as a song. I write mainly at the piano, so it comes with messing around with it and trying another thing, sometimes exhausting a few possibilities to find the best way forward.
I have to put in the time to write music, and schedule it. Otherwise, it’s not going to happen; it’s not going to come in a moment of inspiration
WHAT DO YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO STILL WORK ON AS FAR AS YOUR DRUM SKILLS
I’m always hearing what I can do better. I can listen to any recording I’ve made and hear something I wish I had done differently
With experience, I hope I’m getting better from doing it a lot and thinking about it a lot.
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“Sometimes we didn’t go on stage knowing which songs we were going to play. (Lee Konitz) would start something, or point to someone else and say ‘Start something’”
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WHEN YOU SEE A DRUMMER, WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR AND DO YOU HAVE A PET PEEVE ABOUT DRUMMERS?
I don’t look for anything in particular.
One thing that I think is important for drummers is when they do “what”.
A lot of drummers can play all over the set with fast hands, or a good feel and time. But if they play the wrong thing at the wrong time, things are messed up, even with someone who’s done a lot of homework
What I tend to miss in some drummers is good timing.
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“I can listen to any recording I’ve made and hear something I wish I had done differently”
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IS THERE ANY MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, THAT YOU’D PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
I’d pay $1000 to see Miles Davis or Tony Williams play. I did see Miles Davis. I’d pay that to see Philly Joe Jones, or Jo Jones; I never got to hear them, and they died within a week of each other (in 1985).
That was right when I came to the East Coast to go to school at William Patterson College. I feel like I just missed seeing the chance of seeing them “live”. They wouldn’t have been in their prime, but, sure, I’d give $1000 to see them even then. Maybe more than that! (laughs)
DRUMMERS SEEM TO LIVE A LONG LIFE! CHICO HAMILTON AND JIMMY COBB PLAYED INTO THEIR 90s, AND ROY HAYNES IS STILL ALIVE!
Roy Haynes is a special case. I’ve never heard anyone play so incredibly well at such an advanced age
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“Really listen. The decisions that you make will definitely affect the music”
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ANYONE IN HISTORY THAT YOU’D LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
No (laughs), I’d rather just go and hear them play!
IS THERE ANY PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGION THAT YOU ADHERE TO WHICH KEEPS YOU ON A MORAL COMPASS?
No.
SO WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?
Music has always inspired me
People ask about spirituality and this kind of thing, but for me music is a kind of spirituality. Rather than me bringing the spirituality to the music, I feel like the music is it
WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
My trio with Walter Smith III and Larry Grenadier is playing at the Village Vanguard, and I’m going to record the last couple of nights
Recently, my goal has been to pick some music for the trio; I’ve been writing some new music. Going into this week I haven’t even heard them yet. I don’t know how well they are going to work or if I’ll end up liking them, but I’m going to find out! (laughs)
In a few months I’m going on tour with Larry Goldings and Peter Bernstein in the states for about 2 ½ weeks, and then going to Europe with John Scofield and Vicente Archer for 3 weeks. I’m swamped for the next few months.
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“music is a kind of spirituality. Rather than me bringing the spirituality to the music, I feel like the music is it”
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THE RELATIONSHIP WITH BASSISTS ARE IMPORTANT FOR A DRUMMER. WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A BASSIST?
The bassist and drummer help provide structure for the music. The bassist has big part in the harmonic structure.
First of all, they have to do the basic things, which is to play the form of the music with a good sound and intonation
It’s important that the drummer and bass player have a good feeling together.
Now, if the bass player can bring some creativity, that’s a big plus in a lot of situations, especially the interactive situations.
A bassist that can come up with some surprises and still keep the basic structure of the music is important
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“What I tend to miss in some drummers is good timing”
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ANY GOALS AS TO DIFFERENT TYPES OF MUSIC TO PLAY AND LEARN?
I’m not someone who plans far ahead with goals and things. I’m not sure if that’s a bad or good thing. It’s probably not a good thing
I’m doing three things right now, so the things that I’m doing with John’s group, with Larry and Peter, and then my own trio doing a trio in Europe this past year
I also have a new duo record out with (pianist) Kevin Hays, called American Ballad, available on Bandcamp and will soon be available on vinyl.
I’ve also been doing a few things with Nicolas Peyton, just finishing three notes at the Blue Note with him
DRUMMING IS A DEMANDING INSTRUMENT. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU DO TO STAY IN PHYSICAL SHAPE?
I go out to walk a lot; in NYC its kind of required to walk quite a bit, so that’s helpful. I live in a four floor walk up, and that’s helpful too. I have a gym membership and I occasionally show up, but when I go on the road that goes out the window . (laughs)
If I’m on the road and have a few hours in the afternoon, I’m probably either going to take a nap or out for a big walk. When travelling, we sit in seats a lot and too much sitting is not good.
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“I try to let people bring their own decisions to the music rather than planning it all out”
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WHEN IS YOUR NEXT TIME IN CALIFORNIA?
The organ trio is going to San Francisco, but there is talk of a gig in LA in 2024, but we’re in the planning stage
IF YOU HAVEN’T SEEN BILL STEWART SUPPLY THE CREATIVE PULSE FOR THE ARTISTS HE ASSOCIATES WITH, PICK UP A RECENT ALBUM OF HIS LIKE UNCLE JOHN’S BAND OR NOTICE THE MOMENT AND SEE WHY ONCE YOU HEAR OR PLAY WITH HIM, THERE IS STAYING POWER