WHILE COVID AND THE ECONOMY TRIED TO KILL IT, THE JAZZ SCENE IN LOS ANGELES IS STILL ALIVE AND THRIVING.
YES, A NUMBER OF CLUBS HAVE SADLY CLOSED. BUT NEAR LAX, AT SAM FIRST BAR, SOME OF THE FRESHEST AND MOST EXCITING SOUNDS CAN STILL BE HEARD ALMOST EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK, WITH NOT ONLY TOP NAMES COMING IN FROM AFAR, BUT LOCAL CATS LIKE GERALD CLAYTON HOLD TUESDAY JAM SESSIONS WHERE MUSICIANS CAN HONE THEIR SKILLS, TO THE DELIGHT OF THE LISTENING AUDIENCE
AT THE HELM MANYOF THE NIGHTS IS BASSIST DAVID ROBAIRE, WHO’S BEEN A FIXTURE AS A MUSICIAN FOR YEARS, BUT LATELY HAS BEEN RUNNING SAM FIRST BAR, NOT ONLY SIGNING UP GIGS FOR ARTISTS INCLUDING PETER BERNSTEIN AND ANAT COHEN, BUT ALSO PLAYING ON MANY OF THE SESSIONS.
EVEN MORE THRILLING IS THE FACT THAT ROBAIRE AND SAM FIRST HAVE STARTED RELEASING RECORDINGS OF MANY OF THE SHOWS, CREATING A MUSICAL RENAISSANCE OF NOT ONLY BEING AT THE SCENE, BUT A CATALOGUE OF SOUNDS OF TODAY’S UPCOMING TALENT.
WE CONVERSED WITH DAVID ABOUT HIS INVOLVEMENT WITH SAM FIRST AND THE MUSICAL VISION HE IS TRYING TO PASS ON.
ONE THING I LIKE ABOUT THE SAM FIRST CLUB IS THAT YOU HAVE AN EARLY FIRST SET, AT 7:30
That’s on me; I’m the anti-musician in that I’m the guy who wants to go to sleep before the second set starts. (laughs)
I do have a ten year old daughter, after all.
I want to hear a little bit of music, and then I want to go home and go to bed!
WHEN DID YOU START PLAYING IN THE LA SCENE?
When I moved back from college, in 2009
WHAT WAS THE CLUB SCENE LIKE BACK THEN?
The Blue Whale was literally just opening; it wasn’t even on my radar yet.
Spazios and Charlie O’s were still open. I was there a couple of times before it closed
I was playing all over the place, but it was a lot of restaurant gigs and things like that
The Baked Potato and Catalina’s were there of course, and The Jazz Bakery. As a kid, those were the staples that I would go to
WHAT WAS THE INSPIRATION TO OPEN UP A NEW CLUB IN SUCH A DIFFICULT JAZZ ENVIRONMENT?
That is all Paul Solomon. This is his brainchild.
He reached out to me.
Paul is a real estate guy. He had this space; he wanted to open a beautiful airport bar with great music. He built the bar, and then asked “How do I get the music in here?”
We had known each other for 6-7 years prior; we met once through my dad.
He called me completely out of the blue after 6 years of not talking to him. He asked my dad for my numger, and he called me because I was the only jazz musician that he knew in LA. It literally worked like that: it was the perfect call.
I was looking for a new venture, more on the business side of things, and to help the LA jazz scene. He was a business owner and he was looking to promote jazz in his space. It was the perfect collaboration.
**********
“We both love forward-pushing music, but we also don’t want to push it so far that we scare our audience away. We think about a lot of things when we’re booking”
**********
HOW DO YOU GET THE MUSICIANS TO PLAY? DO YOU CALL THEM OR DO THEY CALL YOU?
It’s a combination.
The calendar is heavily curated.
Paul and I spend a lot of time deciding on what is the appropriate fit for the room, as well as the audience. There are a lot of things to consider.
We both love forward-pushing music, but we also don’t want to push it so far that we scare our audience away. We think about a lot of things when we’re booking.
I get anywhere between 2-5 emails a day from people who want to book shows at Sam First.
It’s flattering, and most of them I don’t who they are. A lot of them are from people out of town who I either know from reputation or I’ve never even heard of. It’s a lot to keep up with to give a proper listen to these people who are submitting music.
And then if we feel that it’s a good fit musically, I’ll bring it to Paul, and we’ll talk about how and if it could be a good fit businesswise
*******
“Even if you’re just recording for posterity it’s so important that we can do it, because this really is history in the making”
*******
HAVE YOU EVER HIRED SOMEONE AND LATER REALIZED IT WAS A MISTAKE?
It happens all the time! (laughs)
I shouldn’t say it like that…
There are mistakes like “we shouldn’t have given that person that particular date” or “we shouldn’t have hired this person to play with this band”.
You think it’s going to be great because it’s so and so, and then that person might put in a ton of effort to put on a great show, or they might not do anything to promote their show, and then you’re somebody and their name, and that’s all you have to promote it, because they’re not doing their part.
We see it all the time, and we see it fluctuate at the club, too.
People who come out to the club generally love our club, but they are coming to see a specific artist. So the way that the artist promotes the show reflects how many people will come out.
*********
“I don’t know what it is. Guys like Larry Klein and Marcus Miller; some of the greatest bass players are the greatest producers”
*********
HOW IS IT DETERMINED WHEN YOU ARE THE BASSIST? IS IT BY DEFAULT, A WAY TO KEEP TO THE BUDGET? I ASK THIS BECAUSE HISTORICALLY, LA CLUBS HAVE BEEN RUN BY BASSISTS. IS IT BECAUSE HE’S THE HARDEST GUY TO FIND, OR THAT IT’S A STEADY GIG FOR YOU?
It’s funny, I have found this in two places in my career, from the club-running side of things, and from the production side.
Some of my favorite producers in the world are bass players.
I don’t know what it is. Guys like Larry Klein and Marcus Miller; some of the greatest bass players are the greatest producers
Musically speaking, I think it has to do with the positioning of the bass, that the bass is like the glue that holds the rest of the band together. It’s the pivot point of the band.
The general audience member sometimes doesn’t even know what the bass is doing until it’s not there. It provides a support that cannot even be put into words.
*I feel that same sense of support and being a team player that is a main part of playing the bass also goes into the things that help a producer thrive, and what helps a club run.
You have to consider music from a lot of different angles, and naturally as a bass player, you do that because of even where you stand in the band.
********
“The general audience member sometimes doesn’t even know what the bass is doing until it’s not there. It provides a support that cannot even be put into words”
*********
WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF THE TUESDAY JAM? THAT’S A VOID THAT NEEDED TO BE FILLED!
That was (pianist) Gerald Clayton’s idea. IT’s an important thing.
Gerald and I both grew up in LA at the same time. We’re both very familiar with what the scene has to offer. We both lived in NY for awhile and knew what that scene had to offer, which had a lot to be said for the openness of the vibe.
Students have a place to play, and people learning have a place to play, and musicians who are extremely talented have a place to play when they’re not on a gig. That’s a really important part of the NY scene and other scenes around the world.
LA has some jam sessions, no doubt, but there didn’t seem like anything regular, especially as high profile as we were doing at the club
We love the fact that Gerald is a great musician , plays great music and brings in great groups, but he’s also an advocate for the scene here. I think a big part of it is because he grew up here
He wants to do good here by the scene here in LA, so that’s the idea behind it.
Provide something for LA’s scene, have it happen at a good venue where he could be there regularly. We all put our best foot forward with it, and it’s been working out really, really well.
*******
“You have to consider music from a lot of different angles, and naturally as a bass player, you do that because of even where you stand in the band”
********
WHAT IS THE CLUB’S CAPACITY?
It fits about 50 when it’s completely full.
IS THE CLUB SURVIVABLE WITH 40-50 PEOPLE EACH NIGHT?
It’s definitely survivable in the sense that we’re not going anywhere.
A big part of that is that the building is Paul’s; he doesn’t have a landlord. That’s a huge help and a big part of why we are able to survive and thrive.
It’s not just “surviving”, but it’s about thriving, and making sure that we’re always doing the best that we can, regardless how the business is going. We want to provide the best experience for the audience regardless. And, we have that flexibilbiy because of Paul
*******
“We love the fact that Gerald (Clayton) is a great musician , plays great music and brings in great groups, but he’s also an advocate for the scene here. I think a big part of it is because he grew up here”
********
SAM FIRST NOW HAS ITS OWN RECORD LABEL. WAS RECORDING THE CONCERTS ALWAYS IN THE PLANS, OR WAS IT JUST SOMETHING THAT CAME ABOUT RECENTLY?
It did develop, but the way it came about was really awesome.
In the same way that Paul was looking around to open a club while I was looking for something else, it was the same sort of thing with recording.
I had always seen my career moving into the direction of eventually producing records, but I didn’t know when it was going to happen. I was in my mid thirties and thinking it will happen down the road in my forties or fifties, after touring for a number of years.
But Paul came to me with the realization that we were showcasing the greatest jazz in LA five nights a week, and it’s just getting lost in the wind.
Even if you’re just recording for posterity it’s so important that we can do it, because this really is history in the making.
For instance, when I think about the musical output of clubs like the Blue Whale which was open for ten strong years, and we’re still talking about all of the great music that happened there, that is history . Even though it is recent history, it is not getting lost anywhere.
We felt the same sort of thing with our club.
We realized that we should be documenting this music. We have an amazing sounding room. It’s got amazing natural acoustics; Paul put a lot of thought into that when he was building the room.
We felt that we were losing this amazing opportunity-LA’s best jazz happening five nights a week in a great sounding room with a great audience…what do we need to document it?
It basically became our “pandemic project”
*******
“Students have a place to play, and people learning have a place to play, and musicians who are extremely talented have a place to play when they’re not on a gig. That’s a really important part of the NY scene and other scenes around the world”
*********
SO THE LOCKDOWN CREATED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU
We had talked about it for about a year prior to the pandemic
We started building out contracts, buying equipment and all of that stuff before the shutdown. And after the shutdown, while I was worried if we were staying open, Paul said, “Not only are we staying open, but let’s work on this new venture”.
So, it kept me busy during the pandemic to build everything out
*********
“Even if you’re just recording for posterity it’s so important that we can do it, because this really is history in the making”
***********
IS AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION A FACTOR IN RECORDING? ONE THINKS OF THOSE BILL EVANS VANGUARD ALBUMS WITH THE TALKING AND CLINKING
Absolutely.
We try to minimize the amount of outside sound, but the room is so small that if somebody coughs, you’re going to hear it if the music is quiet enough. We embrace it.
The whole recording concept in the room is different, as when you record in the studio you put everyone into isolation booths so that you can get the cleanest possible sounds and then merge them all back together to create a unified sound. It’s funny how it works.
In a ‘live” recording, it’s like “We’re all here; all standing in the same space. Everything everyone does effects everybody else and everybody’s sound.” If somebody makes a mistake, it’s not just heard in their microphone; it’s heard in everyone’s microphone!
It’s important to embrace that, because if you don’t, you’re going to be chasing mistakes left and right. You’ll be chasing inaccuracies.
A big part of the “live” recording are the imperfect moments, because it’s human,
When you’re recording in the studio, there’s so much magic that can happen after the fact, and I’m not opposed to production and all of that.
In a “live” recording, you treat it very differently in the sense that whatever happened, happened in that moment, and the goal is to capture that moment.
So, if there’s a sound in the room, you had better capture it because that sound influenced what the musician played. You don’t want to miss that
********
“A big part of the “live” recording are the imperfect moments, because it’s human”
*********
DO THE MUSICIANS THEMSELVES HAVE A SAY IN SONG SELECTION AND SOLOS?
We work with the musicians afterwards.
We record the albums over the course of two nights, so we have plenty of takes of the music
I know, from the musician’s standpoint, that it’s such a drag when you’re playing with somebody who doesn’t care about your input.
It’s like I’ll say, “Take three was the best” and they don’t really care because their solo was best on take two. So that’s the one that has to go. (laughs)
It can be very self-centered.
But, with our relationship with the musicians who are performing and recording, it is super important that, musically speaking, no matter what my background as a musician is, it’s never going to override the fact that the musicians are right there and then making the music in the moment. There’s nothing that I can say after the fact to change anything.
So, it’s important that I trust their instincts.
For instance, when Josh Nelson finished recording, we talked a lot about different takes. He’d say, “Yeah, the solo on this take was great, but the overall vibe on this one is better”, and the overall vibe always wins. That’s what you have to think about when you think of it objectively.
*******
“whatever happened, happened in that moment, and the goal is to capture that moment”
********
WHOSE IDEA WAS IT TO COME UP WITH AN ORGANIC FEEL OF AN ALBUM WITH THE COVERS.?
IT REMINDS ME OF THE CLASSIC BLUE NOTE AND CTI ALBUMS IN THAT REGARD
Those all Paul’s photos.
It happened organically.
We were meeting in the room, kind of looking around it for inspiration. We were talking about the record albums being square, and we looked up and noticed that all of these beautiful photos around us in the room were already square. They were cropped to fit! It was just an obvious “Yes!”
So all of these beautiful photos that Paul has taken himself have become the album covers. It’s an element that ties all of them together; it’s a unifying theme thorough all of the releases. 2040
It’s also an image completely untampered with. Paul shoots the film, and he wants as little cropped off as possible. We talk to the printer about preserving as much as possible; he wants the print to come out as much as the original as possible; no lighting or contrast changes…as is.
**His analogue approach to photography is very much the same as what we’re doing with the club; we’re capturing a moment ‘as is’, and we’re trying to preserve it the best we can rather than fix it later
It’s exactly the same concept.
Paul, not being a musician, but having this artistic eye and background, is great to work with, because we can have these talks, and be on the same page because he gets everything from that analogue-lover’s perspective.
********
“My position is unique in that 90% of the time that I’m playing these days, it’s being recorded”
********
ARE THERE THINGS YOU’VE LEARNED AS A BASSIST AND PRODUCER THAT YOU DIDN”T APPRECIATE BEFORE?
I have learned so much, and I have spent a lot of time being on “the other side” of recording
One of the most interesting hurdles in live recording and having all of these microphones in the same place, is that you have issues with “audio phasing”. That is the sound going into microphones and the distances between the other microphones and the other players, that all of these signals have to match up…or they will phase each other out
For instance, if you’re recording in the studio and there are two microphones on the piano, you have to make sure that the two microphones are “in phase” with each other, or they can cancel each other out in certain frequencies.
It’s like with photography; if you mix certain lighting, you won’t get the right results
So, with 15 microphones for a “live” recording and if the drummer hits something that is slightly out of phase with another microphone, it can cause some weird sound issues.
Finding the perfect microphone placing is important so that there is no cancelling out of any notes.
On the back end, there is a lot less editing, and a lot more lining things up and making sure everything is sounding the best that it can
********
“(Josh Nelson said), “Yeah, the solo on this take was great, but the overall vibe on this one is better”, and the overall vibe always wins. That’s what you have to think about when you think of it objectively”
********
DO YOU NOTICE THAT YOU PLAY DIFFERENTLY WHEN YOU KNOW IT’S BEING RECORDED?
We record everything there except for the “Tuesday Jams”
For me, I’m desensitized to it. If you ask Gerald Clayton that question, he’ll answer it differently; he’ll say it absolutely changes everything, which is why he doesn’t want the microphones up and cameras on when he’s playing there on Tuesdays
For him, he knows for sure that he’s not going to be releasing any of that music, so capturing the moment is far less important to him than making sure that the moment is the best that it can be2518 by having the cameras off
It effects most people; it effects me more than I’m willing to admit. You start thinking about your sound under a microscope
My position is unique in that 90% of the time that I’m playing these days, it’s being recorded
BEFORE STARTING THIS LABEL, THERE HAVE BEEN ARTISTS THAT HAVE HAD LIVE RECORDINGS FROM THE CLUB (LIKE GARZONE WITH ERSKINE). DID THEY USE THEIR OWN EQUIPMENT? IF SO, IS THAT WHAT MAY HAVE INSPIRED YOU TO DO YOUR OWN LABEL?
Erskine’s Trio with Garzone brought their own gear and engineer for their recording. But pianist Max Haymer and saxophonist Steven Lugerner both made great live recordings at the club in our early days using our previous recording equipment (before we upgraded everything during the shutdown). We knew the room sounded great as it was, but hearing portrayed it on those early records confirmed how easily we were able to capture it.
********
“We record everything there except for the ‘Tuesday Jams’”
*********
WILL THERE STILL BE ARTISTS PUTTING OUT THEIR OWN RECORDINGS ON DIFFERENT LABELS, OR IS EVERYTHING FROM NOW ON FROM SAM FIRST RECORDS?
Yes, people still record at the club to release on other labels or for self-release. For example, I engineered a few of the tracks for Gerald Clayton’s most recent record “Bells on Sand” which was recorded for and released on Blue Note Records.
WITH ALL OF YOUR RECORDING, WHO DO YOU THINK IN 25 YEARS PEOPLE WILL LOOK BACK AND THINK “WE DIDN’T APPRECIATE THIS ARTIST AS MUCH AS WE SHOULD HAVE”? MOST PEOPLE THAT WE LIKE NOW WERE KIND OF IGNORED AT THE TIME.
That’s a good point
I don’t know how to answer that question exactly, because I feel that way about a lot of the players at the club, which is why we’re booking them.
We consider booking from a lot of different angles, and sometimes it has to do with the fact that this person has been around for a long time, and they have a really good following. That’s all great.
But sometimes we take the exact opposite approach; this person is up and coming and doesn’t have the following yet; that’s great-let’s give them a night. We’re trying to help them because we have the ability to do so,
*********
“sometimes we take the exact opposite approach; this person is up and coming and doesn’t have the following yet; that’s great-let’s give them a night. We’re trying to help them because we have the ability to do so”
*********
WHO IS ON YOUR “DREAM LIST” TO PLAY AT THE CLUB?
From the very beginning, Paul and I have been talking about getting Christian McBride in there. I’ve known Christian since I was a kid. I haven’t talked to him in awhile, but the next time I see him it’s going to be a topic of conversation.
I’ve been talking to John Patitucci into setting up a few nights. In 2024 he’s likely to do a few nights with different pianists, which will be incredible. Billy Childs, John Beasley, Alan Pasqua…all of the guys he used to play with when he lived here.
I want to see Fred Hersch play in that room. That would be incredible.
Some of my favorite performances in that room are the ones that are piano-centric. I love our piano and the piano trios that are in that room are really great.
I would have loved to hear Keith Jarrett, Bill Evans or Chick Corea in that room. Fred Hersch is on my list of living legends who I’d love to hear in a piano trio in that room
********
“Some of my favorite performances in that room are the ones that are piano-centric. I love our piano and the piano trios that are in that room are really great”
********
WHAT KEEPS YOU MOTIVATED?
Life outside of work! (laughs)
I have an amazing wife and amazing almost 11 year old daughter. We live in an awesome neighborhood; I love my life. I love LA and the situation that I have; it makes work enjoyable
ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT ATTRACTED ME TO JAZZ WAS THE FACT THAT EVERONE THERE, THE MUSICIANS, THE FANS, AND EVEN THE WAITERS, HAD SMILES ON THEIR FACES: EVERYONE WAS HAVING A GOOD TIME. WHY WOULD I NOT WANT TO BE THERE?
AS BASSIST AND PRODUCER, DAVID ROBAIRE HAS CREATED THAT ENVIRONMENT AT SAM FIRST,AND HAS UPPED THE ANTE BY RECORDING THE NIGHTS OF JOY. COME BY, TAKE IN THE SOUNDS, AND ALSO TAKE PART IN BEING A PART OF HISTORY