WHEN I FIRST GOT ATTRACTED TO JAZZ IN THE 1970S, ONE IT’S MAJOR ATTRACTIONS WAS THAT IT WAS STILL POSSIBLE TO SEE PERFORM ARTISTS THAT ACTUALLY CREATED MUSICAL STYLES, SUCH AS SWING, BEBOP OR HARD BOP.
45 YEARS LATER, MOST OF THOSE ARTISTS HAVE PASSED ON. BUT IT IS STILL POSSIBLE TO SEE IN CONCERT ARTISTS WHO TOOK PART OF THE FUSION SCENE IN THE EARLY 1970S. GROUPS LIKE WEATHER REPORT, MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA AND RETURN TO FOREVER WERE THE VANGUARD OF ALL THAT WAS FRESH AND NEW.
BASSIST ALPHONSO JOHNSON, STILL ALIVE, ACTIVE AND WELL AT 72, WAS AND IS ONE OF THE LEADING VOICES OF THAT STYLE, HAVING BEEN RECORDED ON CLASSIC ALBUMS LIKE MYSTERIOUS TRAVELER AND BLACK MARKET. HE ALSO HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH BILLY COBHAM AND CARLOS SANTANA, TOURING AND RECORDING EXTENSIVELY.
LAST YEAR, JOHNSON CAME TO LA AND CELEBRATED HIS FUSION YEARS WTH SETS GIVING TRIBUTE TO WEATHER REPORT AND MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA. THE MUSIC WAS FRESH AND EXCITING, AS JOHNSON DIRECTED THE COMPLEX TRAFFIC LIKE A NEOPOLITAN POLICEMAN.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CONVERSE WITH MR. JOHNSON, WHO, LIKE HIS MUSIC, WAS ACCESSIBLE AND ENJOYABLE
AT YOUR SHOWS AT THE BAKED POTATO, YOU DID TRIBUTES TO YOUR TIME WITH WEATHER REPORT, AND MUSIC OF MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTRA. WHY AT THIS TIME IN YOUR CAREER ARE YOU RE-EXPLORING THIS MUSIC?
There was a lot of material that I recorded with Weather Report. Some of the more popular pieces, like “Birdland”, I got to hear from a lot of other groups, which is great, especially by the younger musicians.
But I never got to hear more of what I call the “inside” compositions, like Wayne Shorter’s “Lusitanos” or “Jungle Book”
After Wayne passed away last year, I had a chance to talk to his wife Caroline, and also with Joe Zawinul’s son, and how some of those songs were just as important as the ones that became popular.
When I got asked to play at the Baked Potato, I wanted to put together a concept of having a group that could explore some of those songs, or at least expose them to the audience
RETURNING TO THOSE COMPOSITIONS, WHAT IMPRESSED YOU MOST ABOUT THEM, WITH 50 YEARS IN RETROSPECT?
How important they are, on their own and to my own career.
Had I not come out to California to audition for the band, I never would have been exposed to playing compositions like that. Music from two of the musical people I most admired, Wayne and Joe, was very important to me.
HOW DID JOE INITIALLY SEE YOU AND CONTACT YOU?
I was playing in Philadelphia with the Chuck Mangione Quartet, and we were opening for Weather Report. When you’re on tour, you’re always opening for different groups.
For me to be playing in my home town for all of my mom and high school buddies in the audience, that was a big deal. And being there with Weather Report made it even a bigger deal.
The quartet was flugelhorn, saxophone, bass and drums. The only time Chuck would play the piano was when (saxist/flutist) Gerry Niewood was soloing. I was the only harmonic instrument backing up the melody.
Chuck would give me a lot of time for solos. During one of them, I happened to look over, and Wayne Shorter was standing in the wings
It was just one of those nights where all of the stars aligned perfectly. I got introduced to him afterwards and they asked me to come out to Los Angeles to audition for the band
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“(Weather Report) went into the studio and we started recording. That was my audition”
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WEATHER REPORT IS A BIT OF A CHANGEFROM CHUCK MANGIONE. DID THEY INTERVIEW YOU BEFORE OR DISUSS THEIR MUSIC BEFOREHAND?
When I stayed around and heard there set, I almost “got it”. I could almost hear what I could provide for the group
So, when I came out to LA, all I did was show up. They went into the studio and we started recording. That was my audition
FUSION WAS FAIRLY NEW AT THE TIME. DID YOU FEEL YOU HAD TO LEARN A NEW MUSICAL LANGUAGE IN ORDER TO FIT IN?
Not really.
When I grew up in Philly, there was a radio station at Temple University that I listened to a lot, and they played everything: Hendrix540, Coltrane, Bessie Smith.
I grew up in my adolescence hearing a lot of types of music.
DID YOU REALIZE AT THE TIME HOW WEATHER REPORT WAS FLEXIBLE IN HIRING BASS PLAYERS, AND THAT THE JOB WAS PROBABLY TEMPORARY?
I never thought that I was actually going to become part of the group; I was just hired to do the recordings
It was a series of phone calls. The first one was that Joe and Wayned wanted me to come to California, and if I was available. Of course, I said “Yes”
The next one was them asking me if I was available for a couple of gigs.
I was never actually “hired”; I just kept getting calls to do gigs
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“With Wayne’s band, you never knew what was going to happen”
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WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF YOUR JOINING BILLY COBHAM’S BAND?
I got to a point in Weather Report where I knew that it was time for me to make a move
Joe had just met Jaco Pastorius, and I could tell that he was enamored with Jaco’s playing.
About a week or two before that happened, I got a call from George Duke, saying he and Billy Cobham were looking for a bass player
So, I drove down to Washington, DC to see the Cobham/Duke band. I could hear that this was something that I could really have fun doing, so I said “yes”. The transition was flawless.
I left the band; Joe and Wayne hired Jaco and the rest is history
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“We never had to discuss where the group was headed; it was all determined by the material”
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WHAT KIND OF SHIFT IN MINDSET DID YOU HAVE TO DO WHEN GOING FROM STRAIGHTATHEAD JAZZ TO DRUMMERS LIKE CHESTER THOMPSON AND BILLY COBHAM?
Billy and I were on the same wavelength about what our role in that group was going to be.
With George Duke, you had that real element of funk and surprise.
We never had to discuss where the group was headed; it was all determined by the material
WAS THERE EVER A GIG OR SESSION THAT SEEMED LIKE A “BAPTISM BY FIRE” FOR YOU?
Oh yes! (laughs) I”ll never forget it.
I got called to do a benefit at the Beverly Hills Hotel.
For me, it was kind of a nightmare.
I had to play charts for Smokey Robinson, Dionne Warwick, Michael Bolton…you name it.
The pieces went from very classical to funk and soul.
I felt overwhelmed at that gig, and it was mostly because of my sight reading. It wasn’t up to par.
YOU’VE PLAYED WITH SOME OF THE GREATEST DRUMMERS OF ALL TIME. IS THERE SOMETHING YOU APPRECIATE IN DRUMMERS, OR HAVE A SPECIAL PET PEEVE ABOUT OTHERS?
It’s kind of like when you meet somebody and you just get a vibe.
When I met Rayford Griffin, I immediately knew that it was going to be great if we were ever to play together.
When I first met Ndugu (Chancler) I immediately knew that he and I had a vibe before we even sat behind our instruments.
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“When I first met Ndugu (Chancler) I immediately knew that he and I had a vibe before we even sat behind our instruments”
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HOW ABOUT MEETING WITH PHIL COLLINS?
That was very different
I met Phil in an elevator in a hotel in Hollywood. I was there to visit Chester Thompson.
In walks Phil Collins. We just gave each other a quick look, and then just as he turned to step out, he says “Aren’t you Alphonso Johnson?” And so we started talking and hit it off right away. That’s when he asked me to play with Face Value
YOU ALSO DID SOME MORE ROCKISH WORK WITH STEVE HACKETT
That was also through Chester, as Steve and he knew each other.
Chester had a studio outside of Nashville, and Steve sent him some tracks and asked me to play on some of them
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM YOUR EARLY DAYS WITH WOODY HERMAN AND HORACE SILVER?
How important time is in the rhythm section.
With Horace Silver’s music he was just an amazing composer.
What I learned quickly was how to follow his left hand
With Woody’s band, the time was important. I Joe La Barbera and I would often talk about how when the band was tired from doing a couple of nights of “hit and runs”, how the band would swing more, so he and I would have to compensate more in the rhythm section.
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What I learned quickly (from Horace Silver) was how to follow his left hand
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HOW WAS PLAYING WITH CHET BAKER DIFFERENT, IN SUCH A SPARTAN ATMOSPHERE?
I got a call to do a recording with Chet. When I arrived, Ron Carter was there, so I didn’t know what was going on. I guess they wanted both of us to play on one track.
So, here I am, sitting on the floor, looking up at Ron Carter playing the upright bass and trying to stay out of his way.
WHEN YOU PLAYED WITH WAYNE SHORTER’S OWN BAND, HOW WAS THAT DIFFERENT THAN PLAYING WITH WEATHER REPORT?
It was very different
With Weather Report, there was always a yin and yang between Joe and Wayne.
With Wayne’s band, you never knew what was going to happen
With Weather Report, there were times when I could sense that Joe thought that it was getting too nebulous, and he’d want things to move more into a certain direction. With Wayne, he would just let things happen and evolve how they were going to evolve.
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“With Weather Report, there was always a yin and yang between Joe and Wayne”
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IS THERE ANY PART OF YOUR CATALOGUE THAT YOU ARE PROUD OF THAT IS NOT AS WELL KNOWN?
I played on a lot of records when I first came out to California. I played with a group called The Whispers, I did some stuff with Quincy Jones. I like all of those recordings, but I don’t think that the public knows about them as much
WITH ALL OF THESE MUSICIANS YOU’VE PLAYED WITH, IS THERE ANY MUSICAL MIND THAT STICKS OUT AS BEING MOST IMPRESSIVE?
Wayne Shorter.
Wayne Shorter truly is a genius when it comes to looking at his body of work over so many years.
Never did he sit still. Never did he settle into one type of direction or sound
Everything that he composed, played on and produced was just brilliant. Everything was just impeccable.
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“Wayne Shorter truly is a genius when it comes to looking at his body of work over so many years. Never did he sit still. Never did he settle into one type of direction or sound”
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YOU PLAY UPRIGHT BASS, ELECTRIC BASS AND CHAPMAN STICK. WHAT ARE YOUR LIKES AND DISLIKES OF EACH?
I love the upright bass because I get to use the bow
The electric bass is what I’ve made a living with
I like the Chapman Stick board because it gives me an opportunity to step out of the box a little and not play something that is not comfortable.
SINCE YOU’RE HAVING SUCH A GOOD TIME WITH THESE RETROSPECTIVES, ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP THIS UP, OR ARE YOU GOING TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT ON YOUR NEXT TOUR?
The next tour I’ll be doing is going to be with Jazz Is Dead
We’re still exploring materials from (Grateful Dead’s )Wake of the Flood, which has this year be the 50th anniversary of that recording. I suspect that we’ll be pulling more rabbits out of the hat.
YOU ARE ALSO A TEACHER. WHAT IS THE BIGGEST POINT YOU TRY TO GET ACROSS TO YOUR STUDENTS?
How to use space in your playing.
Make sure that you’re always listening, even while you’re playing
WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
I would pay a whole lot more to see John Coltrane perform
When I heard him play, I really didn’t understand his music.
But I got to hear an album called Cannonball and Coltrane and that just opened my eyes.
The first time I heard Coltrane playing standard tunes and changes, I could contrast his approach to Cannonball Adderley’s, who was all about playing the chords and intervals. Trane’s playing was more linear and across the landscape
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“‘Don’t make any assumptions’. That’s something that I try to keep close to my heart when I’m playing”
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HOW ABOUT ANYONE IN WORLD HISTORY YOU’D LIKE TO SIT DOWN WITH AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
Everybody! (laughs)
Paul Chambers
ANY BOOKS THAT YOU HAVE READ THAT HAVE INSPIRED YOU
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz is up there on my list
It sets the bar really high; it keeps me honest, focused and challenged. Every day of my life.
IS THERE ANY MAJOR PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGION THAT YOU ADHERE TO AS A MORAL COMPASS?
When you look at the four statements in that book, it lays out so well 2444 and simply.
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Waking up every morning
DO YOU HAVE ANY FUTURE GOALS?
I’m trying to plan out my retirement. I want to go live on Maui and enjoy life.
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“Make sure that you’re always listening, even while you’re playing”
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YOU ALWAYS SEEM RELAXED ON STAGE
I try to be; it doesn’t help to be uptight when you’re trying to play music. You have to be open to what’s going on around you and how you’re reacting to it
One of the “Four Agreements” in the book is “don’t make any assumptions”. That’s something that I try to keep close to my heart when I’m playing
ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE ANY MORE SHOWS WITH THE BAND YOU HAD AT THE BAKED POTATO?
I really liked the band of seven people. I’ve never played before with a band that big under my own name. I’m waiting for opportunities to present themselves where maybe I can play in some festivals.
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“it doesn’t help to be uptight when you’re trying to play music. You have to be open to what’s going on around you and how you’re reacting to it”
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HERE YOU WERE IN YOUR 20s AND 30s WITH GEORGE DUKE, BILLY COBHAM AND WEATHER REPORT. DID YOU EVER COME TO A POINT AND THINK TO YOURSELF “I’VE MADE IT”?
I’ve never got to that point. I look forward to there being something else
THAT “SOMETHING ELSE” IS WHAT ALWAYS KEEPS THE BEST MUSICIANS, AND BEST PEOPLE, MOTIVATED IN LIFE. IT’S ALWAYS THE SEARCHERS THAT WE NEED TO LISTEN TO, SO TRY TO CATCH ALPHONSO JOHNSON NEXT TIME AROUND. HE’LL BE AT THE GRAPE FEBRUARY 24, SO TAKE IN THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE IN THE SOUNDS OF THE MYSTERIOUS TRAVELER.