ONE OF THE OASIS IN THE JAZZ DESERT OF LOS ANGELES IS CSUN, HOME OF THE SORAYA THEATRE AND WHERE THE LIKES OF BRANFORD MARSALIS, CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE, BRAD MEHLDAU, CECILE MCLORIN SALVANT AND SAMARA JOY HAVE GIVEN ANGELENOS SOME OF THE BEST OF MODERN SOUNDS.
THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE CITY OF NORTHRIDGE A HAVEN IS MATT HARRIS, WHO STARTED TO BALL ROLLING A FEW YEARS AGO BEFORE STEPPING DOWN.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO GET MATT’S VIEWS ON THE ROLE OF EDUCATION IN JAZZ
WHAT WAS YOUR INITIAL ROLE IN THE CSUN MUSIC DEPARTMENT?
I was hired as Director of Jazz Studies. You do everything from curriculum to teach classes to auditions and anything that happens, as the Director makes it happen.
DID THE JOB EVOLVE AS YOU WENT ALONG?
It took me 25 years, because I couldn’t take the administration aspect anymore, so I started to “semi-retire”. For Northridge, they have a program where the last 5 years before you retire you can opt to teach half time and have no administrative duties and no committees; all of your stuff is done. You also get to collect your pension, so you can still teach without the admin stuff. It’s a great deal.
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“In ensembles, in improvisation or arranging, it all boils down to your ear.”
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AS DIRECTOR, DID YOU HAVE TO DO A BIG REVAMP OF THE CURRICULUM?
I wasn’t crazy about (the curriculum). A guy in the department helped me and I got up and going the Improvisation class among other things, so I had to change quite a bit. But, the thing is, through the university is the admin part; if you’re going to add a course, change or modify anything, it takes a year and a half to go through all of these committees and do all of this paperwork.
What we did through the years was to just change the content of classes but keep the title. Not change anything else so I didn’t have to do the paperwork.
For instance, we had an Arranging class that was two semesters long. For the first 15 years it was a combo the first semester and big band the second. But the longer I was there, I figured that the big band wasn’t that important anymore to the present generation. They weren’t going to get much big band stuff, and we didn’t have a Jazz Composition class, so we made one semester Composition with a little bit of arranging, and then made an Arranging class, but it was all under the head of “Arranging”.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THE SCHOOL FOR YOUR STUDENTS?
It’s really a combination of all of the things. The ear training and the listening part, without a doubt, as it’s encompassed in everything you do.
In ensembles, in improvisation or arranging, it all boils down to your ear.
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Most (students) come in as players but soon realize “Whoa, I’m not as good as I thought” “I’ve got a long way to go” or “How am I going to make a living doing this?”
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WHEN A MUSIC MAJOR COMES TO YOUR SCHOOL, WHAT IS THE BIGGEST THING THEY WANT FROM YOU?
I think most of them want to be jazz musicians of some sort, whether that means teaching or playing. Most of them come in as players but soon realize “Whoa, I’m not as good as I thought” “I’ve got a long way to go” or “How am I going to make a living doing this?”, which was actually my experience as well.
I went to college and realized “Uhhh…I love jazz, but I need to keep a lot of options open and do a lot of different things.”
DO YOU TEACH THE BUSINESS ASPECT OF BEING A MUSICIAN?
That is an aspect that is still not part of the curriculum, and it absolutely should be. We do not have it.
When you’re dealing with a State University like ours, there are certain mandates. You can only have a certain amount of classes and units, and we just ran out of units. There was nothing else we could add, unless we subtract something else.
There are business classes there, but not as part of our Music Major.
JAZZ EDUCATION CAN BE PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE. IS JAZZ EDUCATION ACTUALLY A “PONZI SCHEME” WHERE YOU CAN ONLY MAKE A LIVING IN JAZZ BY TEACHING OTHERS TO PLAY JAZZ?
(laughs) That’s one way to look at it.
The thing is, you still can make a living as a jazz musician. 808 A high percentage of my students actually do make a living, at least before making families, as they are living at home with no insurance. We keep track of them.
But the whole thing of the big debt coming out of college, I’m really against that unless the parents have that kind of “USC” money, then it’s fine. Why not spend it? But if it’s going to put you deeply in debt, it’s a bad way to go as a jazz musician, or any kind of musician. It’s a big mistake.
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“unless the parents have that kind of “USC” money, then it’s fine. But if it’s going to put you deeply in debt, it’s a bad way to go as a jazz musician, or any kind of musician. It’s a big mistake”
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DOES IT REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A MUSICIAN’S CAREER IF HE GOES TO A STATE SCHOOL LIKE CSUN TO LEARN MUSIC AS OPPOSED TO BERKLEE OR MANHATTAN? DOES A BIG NAME MUSICAL SCHOOL REALLY “PAY OFF”?
In general, I would say “No”. I’ll use myself as an example:
I went to Eastman School, and the contacts that you meet at those kind of schools are they ones you’ll end up working with or working for. From that aspect, maybe it pays off.
But as far as actually being on a gig and someone asking you “Where did you go to school?”, it will never happen. You never tell anyone about it. It just has to do with how you play.
If you’re a musician, what matters is- are you going to show up on time? Wear the right clothes? Not show up drunk? It is seriously that kind of stuff.
When you’re a leader in a group and responsible for the music for anything from a wedding to a jazz gig, there’s nothing worse than a guy showing up late or wearing white socks with the tux
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“The school is there to help to some degree, but it is not the school to teach you what you need to do; you have to figure that out”
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SO, YOU FEEL THAT A PUBLIC SCHOOL CAN GIVE YOU THE MUSICAL FUNDAMENTALS AS WELL AS A MANHATTAN OR BERKLEE CAN.
Oh, absolutely. No question.
Every single successful player that I’ve had and known has figured it out on their own. The school is there to help to some degree, but it is not the school to teach you what you need to do; you have to figure that out.
WHEN YOU HAVE JAZZ CONCERTS AT CSUN, CAN YOU HAVE THE MUSICIANS LIKE CHRISTIAN MCBRIDE, WYNTON MARSALIS, VIJAY IYER AND CECILE MCLOREN SALVANT COME AND SPEAK TO THE STUDENTS IN CLASS?
Not always, but usually they do.
When they perform at our Center, part of their contract says that they have to do an hour “Master Class” for the kids.
Other times, we bring in 5-10 guests artists a year.
The students really loved Ben Wendel, from Kneebody.
WHAT WAS SO SPECIAL ABOUT HIM?
He was just a normal, approachable guy. He’s a younger guy and plays his butt off. He is very intellectual and philosophical about things; he also can get pretty deep into the music, which the students appreciated.
He doesn’t just go into the surface of bebop and stuff. He’s on the front end of things that are happening
WHAT’S THE MOST CHALLENGING THING ABOUT RUNNING THE DEPARTMENT?
The admin stuff is not for me; I don’t like doing it and I’m not great at it. It’s incredibly time consuming and for me it’s not creative
WHAT’S THE MOST REWARDING PART?
Being with the students and the ensembles are arguably the most fun.,
ARE THERE ANY MANTRAS THAT YOU KEEP TELLING THEM OVER AND OVER TO GET INTO THEIR HEADS?
Practice a lot and listen to a lot of music
Another thing is respect for musicians, especially the musicians. Some of the educators might not know some of the insights of the older musicians.
Take Bobby Shew for instance. If we’re playing, and he’s taking a solo that’s two choruses long, I’m not going to do more than two choruses, period. Not unless Bobby looks at me and goes, “take another one”. It’s unwritten, no one ever says a word about it, but you’re a jerk if you do more than he did. (laughs)
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“It’s pretty hard to grade art. For that reason it can be somewhat clinical to a degree. But, the good musicians will figure out that ‘this is a road to get to where I’m going’”.
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HAVE THE MUSIC STUDENTS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS?
It’s interesting, yes. The really good ones are insanely good at a younger age and way better than I was. The internet has given an exposure to so much, where we as kids had to go to the record store “cut out” bins and spend our money on one record. They have everything literally at their fingertips.
BECAUSE OF THAT, HAS JAZZ EDUCATION HOMOGENIZED MUSICIANSHIP?
It kind of has, which is generally not a good thing. But, I don’t know any other way you can do it.
If you’re going to grade someone, there has to be something certain and tangible that you can grade.
It’s pretty hard to grade art. For that reason it can be somewhat clinical to a degree. But, the good musicians will figure out that “this is a road to get to where I’m going”.
IT’S LAST DAY OF CLASS. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO EMPHASIZE TO YOUR STUDENTS?
You’ve got to have fun, and you have to work your butt off. It’s a combination of the two things.
That’s why I don’t feel bad about “what if they can’t make a living at it”, because becoming a better artist is like athletics. It becomes black and white-if you practice hard you are going to get better. It’s no different than anything in life.
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“You’ve got to have fun, and you have to work your butt off. It’s a combination of the two things”
THERE IS NO “PLAN B” AFTER HARD WORK
And that’s a huge difference between generations. The youth have this “entitled” thing where they think they get it automatically, but no, you have to play your ass off!
HAVE ANY STUDENTS COME BACK TO THANK YOU?
Not a lot, but some have. They thanked me for my honesty, that I wouldn’t bs them at the time with things that were hard to hear. I understand, as it was hard for me.
But I’m not going to sit there and tell a kid that he sounds great when he doesn’t. I also won’t shoot him down and leave him there to die. It’s more like “You don’t sound very good; here’s why and here’s what you need to do to fix it.” That’s what a good teacher should be able to do.
WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE ABOUT JAZZ EDUCATION IF YOU HAD A MAGIC WAND?
I don’t see a lot of jazz orchestras any more, and In order for jazz musicians to make a living they have to tap into jazz education to get gigs, so it’s important for the art form through universities .
AS AN EDUCATOR AND MUSICIAN, MATT HARRIS HAS GIVEN SAGE ADVICE TO ALL PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS AND MUSICIANS. AS WITH ANY CAREER, GOING TO COLLEGE DOES NOT GUARANTEE A JOB. BUT IT DOES GUARANTEE AN EDUCATION. USE YOUR EDUCATIONAL PATH WISELY