I STILL REMEMBER THUMBING THROUGH THE ‘JAZZ’ SECTION AT TOWER RECORDS BACK IN THE 1970S, TRYING TO FIND MY WAY THROUGH THE WIDE OPEN RANGE OF JAZZ ARTISTS IN WHICH TO INITIATE MYSELF.
WHERE TO BEGIN?
“START WITH KANSAS CITY” STATED THE OLDER SALESMAN, OBVIOUSLY SYMPATHIZING WITH MY STARING AT THE ROWS OF ALBUMS. ‘
“JAZZ STARTED IN KANSAS CITY” HE OPINED. “DON’T BELIEVE ANYTHING ABOUT NEW ORLEANS, CHICAGO OR NEW YORK. THE REAL JAZZ IS FROM KANSAS CITY.
DUTIFULLY, I GOT A BUNCH OF ALBUMS BY BASIE, TURNER, BIRD AND MCSHANN. HAVE NEVER LOOKED BACK.
ONE OF THE TRADITIONS OF KANSAS CITY IS BOPPING ALTO PLAYERS LIKE BOBBY WATSON, WHOSE LATEST RELEASE BACK HOME IN KANSAS CITY, IS A CELEBRATION OF THE VIBE OF MIDWEST JAZZ. RELENTLESSLY SWINGING, BUT IN A RELAXED FASHION.
WATSON IS BEST KNOWN FOR HIS WORK WITH ART BLAKEY’S JAZZ MESSENGERS, AND THE LESSONS HE LEARNED THERE BACK IN THE 80S HAVE CARRIED HIM THROUGHOUT HIS ILLUSTRIOUS CAREER.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH MR WATSON, WHO WAS AS ACCESSIBLE AND ENJOYABLE AS A KANSAS CITY RHYTHM SECTION
COMING FROM MISSOURI, DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE CARRYING ON THE TRADITION OF CHARLIE PARKER?
There are certain things you try to strive for. But, you also know you’ll never be Bird, but there are things you can do to be “Bird-like”
I feel that I’m carrying on some spontaneity, an original sound, and am living in the moment. Those are the things that I got from Bird.
There’s also an aura of joy; triumph over adversity. You are always uplifted when you hear him. Those are the things that I take away
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There are certain things you try to strive for. But, you also know you’ll never be Bird, but there are things you can do to be ‘Bird-like’”
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WHEN YOU STARTED PLAYING THE ALTO, WHAT WAS THE BEST ADVICE YOUR TEACHER GAVE YOU?
Practice! (laughs)
I bask in this musician. I’ve always been a musician at heart, and always had an active imagination.
I’d be sitting in the concert bands playing first chair clarinet, and I would always add extra notes. Even if there was a Sousa March, I’d add extra embellishments. The band director would stop us and say “Watson, stop padding the parts!” (laughs)
But I heard this stuff, and got into an American History class in Minneapolis in the 11th grade. The teacher was a jazz drummer at night. David King. He saw our interest in trying to learn about jazz, so he turned the second half of the year into “Jazz History”. That’s when I learned the whole soap opera of the music, and I realized “There are other people like me!”
So, I started buying records, and hung out with people who had a lot of records. I moved back to Kansas City and met a lot of other people who had records. I met Pat Metheny and hung out at his house a couple of nights. He lived in one of the suburbs.
I got attracted to jazz because it was something in which the older you get, the better you get
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“I got attracted to jazz because it was something in which the older you get, the better you get”
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THAT’S WHAT AMAZING ABOUT JAZZ ARTISTS: THEY KEEP GETTING BETTER AND AT THEIR BEST, THEY DIE!
(laughs) That’s exactly what happens!
It’s not like with James Brown or Tina Turner. James Brown couldn’t do the splits anymore. I realized back in high school and thought “they’re gonna get older and not be able to do all of that.” As much as I love their music, I realized back then that jazz was the way for me.
BOTH YOU AND METHENY WERE MIDWESTERNERS. WHAT IDEAS DID YOU SHARE TOGETHER?
Pat was one of my early partners in music. I couldn’t play back then as I do now when I first met Pat. He was more advanced than I was at that time.
I used to go out and sit in with him with his group that played at the Ramada Inn on I-70. I’d listen to a couple of sets, and for the last set they’d invite me up. They’d start something like Freddie Hubbard’s “Straight Life” , those kind of songs with just two chords. One time afterwards, I’d tell Pat “I want to play some standards. I can’t hear what you’re doing”
So he took me to his house, and spent some time with him. He was telling me how he got into the music with his older brother Mike. He turned me on to some records like “On Green Dolphin Street”, “All The Things You Are” and “Stella By Starlight”. Things like that.
How showed me how to play those songs. The next time I came up with them, I was able to play their songs too. I didn’t want to just play on two chords. I was always interested in growth.
HOW ELSE DID HE INFLUENCE YOU?
I came across him later, as I was going to go to North Texas, and he said, “No, you need to come to the University of Miami. It was THE scene. It’s not such a big band-oriented program; they’ve got a lot of combos. they’ve got four big bands and ten small groups.” They had a great cast. Jerry Coker (saxist and teacher) was there, Dan Haerle. The leader of the program was great; It was still vital. Phyllis Hyman and Ira Sullivan was there, Jaco. I ran into Bruce Hornsby and Hiram Bullock back then, and met Curtis Lundy.
There were gigs on the beach. I’d buy my first tuxedo, like something from The Redd Foxx Show. Harry “Sweets” Edison was the musical director. IT was interesting and fruitful.
Curtis and I started listening to records. He played electric bass, switched to acoustic and made fast progress with it.
We were just down there for two years in a laboratory. I was a composition major, so I got my degree in comp theory. I reconnected with Pat down there and we worked on composition together.
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“Blakey was a baptism by fire”
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WHAT WAS A BIGGER CHALLENGE, THAT TIME IN MIAMI WITH PAT OR YOUR JOINING UP WITH ART BLAKEY?
Blakey was a baptism by fire
I was at George Wein’s club in New York (Storyville), and ran into Curtis Fuller who told Art “You gotta come here this guy”. He told me “You’ve got to be with ‘Bu’”
Curtis was with Count Basie at the time, with Jimmy Forrest, Harold Mabern and Butch Miles. When the big bands had an off night, they’d go around New York for small band gigs.
It was Art’s birthday. Curtis brought me along to sit in. Joe Kingston brought Art down; he had just gotten into town from Canada. Joe Kingston was one of those cats that will never be written in history, but he had a big impact on me and the music.
I’m up there playing on stage with Chris Woods and Butch Miles, Blakey walks in and Kingston orders a bottle of champagne for the table. The next thing I know, Blakey comes up and exchanges the sticks with Butch, so the beat really changes.
After it was over, he pulls me into the Men’s Room. He said, “How’d you like to be with The Messengers?”
That’s the thing about New York. I knew I was kind of in the ball park, because after I’d finish playing people were always coming up and asking “Who are you with?” Horace Silver, Buddy Rich and all of these bands would come into New York and if they had a day off they’d come in and sit in with us.
So, the common question was always “Who Are You With”. That made me realize “I’m not with nobody!” But I knew I was in the ballpark.
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“the common question was always “Who Are You With”. That made me realize “I’m not with nobody!” But I knew I was in the ballpark”
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WHAT HAPPENED WITH ART?
I went to Art’s apartment the next day. He gave me a bunch of records.
He had a quintet at the time with Bill Hartman, David Schnitter, Micky Tucker and Cameron Brown. They were on their way to Japan, so he said “learn these tunes”. So I went up and sat in with them at a club in the Upper West Side just before they left for Japan, and I added my note to the quintet. We didn’t rehearse. I didn’t bring a bunch of music; I just added my sound to the ensemble.
DID HE GIVE YOU ANY INSTRUCTIONS AS TO WHAT HE EXPECTED OF YOU?
He just gave me his records, said “learn the music” and shut the door in my face (laughs)
He also took me out to dinner, gave me a winter coat (because I just came up from Florida). I took a leap of faith with him.
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“(Blakey) just gave me his records, said “learn the music” and shut the door in my face (laughs)”
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WHAT’S THE BIGGEST THING YOU LEARNED FROM BLAKEY?
I learned how to program a set of music, how to read the audience, how to delegate authority and responsibility to the band so they take ownership.
A lot of those titles are “paper titles” like “musical director”. He’ll say “Bobby, lead the rehearsal”
The first time we had a rehearsal, we were waiting for Art to show up. Two hours later he arrives, and he asks, “Well, what do you have?”
I said, “We were waiting on you”
He explodes, “You’re waiting on me?!? I’m waiting on you!!!”
So we learned to rehearse the music ourselves.
He would got to the back of the room and listen. He’d then come up and start playing with us. The first time would be the worst time, and then each time it would get better and better. By the third day he owned it.
We thought we were waiting on Art, but he was waiting on us.
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“He would got to the back of the room and listen. He’d then come up and start playing with us. The first time would be the worst time, and then each time it would get better and better. By the third day he owned it”
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WHEN YOU WROTE YOUR MATERIAL FOR THAT BAND, WAS IT WITH ANY OF THE BAND MEMBERS SPECIFICALLY IN MIND?
I always wrote it with Art in mind.
There were certain beats that he wouldn’t play. No odd meters; he wouldn’t do any heavy Latin stuff. He said you need a proper rhythm section to do Latin. He had respect for the idioms.
Just by playing with I learned what Art liked to do, so that I had to make him pro-active, doing what he liked to do, as he was a drummer and a leader. You didn’t want him back there just keeping time like a lawnmower; you had to find rhythms and hits that he liked to play and featured him and give him a chance to accompany. He was all about drums rhythm sections, as those are instruments of accompaniment.
So I’d think “How can I write something that will make him want to kick, flip it and still accompany us?” So, I wrote for him, and for his situation.
AT THAT TIME, BACK IN THE 1970s, YOU WERE IN ONE OF THE FEW BANDS THAT DID NOT PLUG IN OR DO FUSION. THIS WAS BEFORE MARSALIS STARTED THE ACOUSTIC RENAISSANCE. DID YOU FILL THE BAND WAS A RARE BREED AT THE TIME?
Maybe, because of my age
But, I knew that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity. I met so many great musicians through being with Art, that this was being on another level. This music was eternal
Sometimes, when you listen to fusion, it automatically dates itself because of the beat you might use, or the sound of the keyboard. The Yamaha DX7, and other instruments are obsolete now. Electric instruments date themselves automatically. Technology is always evolving, so the sound changes.
It’s like a white belt or a wide collar (laughs)
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“We thought we were waiting on Art, but he was waiting on us.”
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DID ART TELL YOU TO LEAVE, OR DID YOU JUST FEEL IT WAS TIME TO GO?
Art told me to leave
He said, “Bobby, you’ve been up under my armpit or 4 ½ years. We’ve travelled all around the world. I want to bring in some more young folks before I hang up my sticks. I think you can fly now.
That was in June.
He said, “When do you want to leave?”
I told him around December, as we’d have a big break around the holidays.
He knew that I had outgrown the group. I had gotten everything that I could get out of it.
We’re driving back from DC that Monday. On Thursday we had a gig at The Bottom Line, and I didn’t know about it. His manager, John Ramsey, called me “You’re not on this gig”. Before the end of the week, was out! (laughs)
Art doesn’t fire you; you’re just not there anymore. (laughs)
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“(Blakey) said, “Bobby, you’ve been up under my armpit or 4 ½ years. We’ve travelled all around the world. I want to bring in some more young folks before I hang up my sticks. I think you can fly now”
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AT ONE TIME EACH GEOGRAPHICAL AREA HAD ITS OWN “REGIONAL SOUND”, SUCH AS KANSAS CITY, CHICAGO, LOS ANGELES AND NEW YORK. AS ONE WHO HAS LIVED IN KC AND NY, IS THERE STILL A DIFFERENT FEEL TO THE MUSIC DEPENDING ON THE AREA?
I think that there is more space in the music in Kansas City
Being out here in Kansas City gave me a chance to reflect and think about what I wanted to play. I took the New York experience and toned it down a bit in order to communicate with the audience.
Being in Kansas City for the past two years due to the pandemic, I was able to slow down and think about my sound; what was in my heart that I really wanted to play.
I was less technocratic. In New York, it’s higher, faster and louder.
I was into that, but coming out here I had more space in my playing. The energy level here is not as high, but that is changing a bit here because there are younger drummers and rhythm section players now from St. Louis and The East.
Carl Allen took my place in KC as the Director of Jazz Studies at the U of KC, so things are changing.
It’s easier to live out here. It could get easy to get lazy here, but playing in New York keeps you intense. *People ask me “Why’d you leave New York?”. I didn’t leave New York; I live in Kansas City. If you come to my house, it’s like New York. I carry it wherever I go.
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“In New York, it’s higher, faster and louder”
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YOUR KEEPING IT REAL ALBUM MUST HAVE BEEN RECORDED RIGHT BEFORE THE LOCKDOWN
Yes, it was recorded in February.
DID YOU KNOW THIS GIG WAS THE BEGINNIG OF THE END?
We had no idea; we had the entire year booked up! Overseas, LA, there was a “Bird at 100” celebration gigs as well. Like a house of cards it all came tumbling down.
YOU’VE PUT OUT TWO ALBUMS WITH INTERESTING MESSAGES. WHAT WAS THE MESSAGE YOU WERE TRYING TO CONVEY IN MADE IN AMERICA?
I was trying to highlight the lesser known pioneers and innovators in black history. Guys like Major Taylor, the jockey Isaac Murphy. He won the Kentucky Derby 3-4 times. Dr. Mark Dean, the pilot Wendell Pruitt, Sammy Davis Jr, who was the GOAT. HE was part of the Rat Pack and really the first Michael Jackson. He really was the real Mr. Entertainment.
All of these things that you don’t really hear about. Bass Reeves, the original Lone Ranger. They based the Lone Ranger series off of him.
All of these things that were kind of hidden were made in America
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“(Blakey) saved me 10 years of searching around. He focused me and gave me a purpose”
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YOUR OTHER ALBUM, CHECK CASHING DAY, FETURED A NUMBER OF SPEECHES. WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?
I was in high school when Martin Luther King was assassinated. He gave a speech when he went to Memphis.
The only speech that everyone hears is the “I have a dream” speech.
But he went to the bank to cash a 100 year old “moral check” and it came up “Insufficient Funds” , and I wanted to focus on that. I wanted to give Dr. King another chance.
WHEN YOU TAKE IN A BAND, WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR IN AN ALTO PLAYER? DO YOU HAVE A PET PEEVE?
I listen for their sound, of course.
I then listen for their melodicism and phrasing.
My pet peeve is too many notes. That goes for any instrumentalist. They’re not making any solid statements
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“My pet peeve is too many notes. That goes for any instrumentalist. They’re not making any solid statements”
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WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PLAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
Sonny Rollins and Bird. Also Trane.
I’d pay $1000 to see Charles McPherson. I didn’t pay that much to see him, and I’ve played with him
WHO IN WORLD HISTORY WOULD YOU LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
Malcom X
I wouldn’t ask him anything; I’d just let him start talking. My questions would develop from that.
I’d love to hang out with Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, but Malcom and Martin for sure.
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“I try to help as many people as I can. A lot of people have helped me”
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IS THERE ANY PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGION THAT HAS MADE YOU THE MAN THAT YOU ARE?
I was taught patience, and the ability to truly listen
If you’re listening to somebody, but formulating your response, you’re not really listening.
I was also taught that at the end of the day, your story is already dry; God is the Alpha and Omega. You have to live out the reason why you were born. Watch the little signs and wonders to let you know if you’re on the right track. God is in charge
Man has plans. God has plans, but God has the best of plans. That’s kind of hard to say to a lot of people, but it doesn’t matter.
When I say “God”, it may mean something different to you. God has many names and means many things to people.
The main thing is to trust in the Lord, and don’t look at anybody else with envy or jealousy.
I USED TO TELL MY DAUGHTERS, “IF YOU’RE CONTENT, 99% OF YOUR PROBLEMS WILL GO AWAY”
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“If you’re listening to somebody, but formulating your response, you’re not really listening”
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Absolutely.
DID YOU GROW UP IN A RELIGIOUS FAMILY?
Yes. I grew up in my grandfather’s church. Church of the Living God. I went a lot when I was younger.
Our church was a family church. It was the same kind of church that (Thelonious) Monk went to. They were the first one to let women be ministers.
We had instruments. It was the first time that I played in public. I played “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” on clarinet. Everyone said “Amen”. I played piano for the church a little bit. It was a family thing. That church served me and gave me my foundation.
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“Man has plans. God has plans, but God has the best of plans. That’s kind of hard to say to a lot of people, but it doesn’t matter”
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GIVE ME A COUPLE BOOKS THAT YOU’VE READ THAT YOU THINK EVERYONE SHOULD READ
Right now I’m into the latest Bernie Mac book. It is one released posthumously, I Don’t Care If You Like Me, I Like Me.
I’m into audio books. Being on planes, or driving from New York, I got turned on to them. I’ll put on some Stephen King.
Black is the New White by Paul Mooney and Dave Chappell. That’s a great one. I like ones like that.
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
Down time. Going out to dinner with my wife. Playing with my dog. Going down in the basement and working on music. Time to reflect and recharge my batteries.
I love to fish. I love to boat, even if I can’t do it too much.
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“Being out here in Kansas City gave me a chance to reflect and think about what I wanted to play. I took the New York experience and toned it down a bit in order to communicate with the audience”
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WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
I would like to write some film scores. Get an NEA Jazz Masters Grant (laughs)
Be on certain radio shows. Do a 2-3 night event spotlighting all of my groups like Horizon, 29th St. Sax Quartet, some cats from Europe that I’ve recorded with. Do a retrospective of my body of work
WHAT’S YOUR FAVORITE PLACE FOR BBQ?
That’s a hard one!
Gates BBQ for the sauce. They have about 5 location.
Arthur Bryant’s and they have only one location. You’ve got Jack’s Stack for the ambience, meat and sauce, Oklahoma Joes for another reason. Q39.
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“That church served me and gave me my foundation”
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WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE WHEN YOU’RE 6 FEET UNDER?
“He tried to help somebody”
I try to help as many people as I can. A lot of people have helped me.
WHO HELPED YOU?
My parents. Art Blakey. He became a surrogate father. He saved me 10 years of searching around. He focused me and gave me a purpose.
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“You have to live out the reason why you were born. Watch the little signs and wonders to let you know if you’re on the right track. God is in charge”
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AS ART BLAKEY WAS A GUIDING LIGHT TO HIM, SO NOW AT 69 BOBBY WATSON SEES HIMSELF AS ONE WHO NOT ONLY CARRIES THE BATON OF MODERN JAZZ, BUT IS PASSING IT ON TO THE NEXT GENERATION. AS ONE OF HIS LATEST ALBUMS ATTESTS, WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC, HE STILL KEEPS IT REAL