BASSIST MICHAEL LEAGUE IS A MEMBER OF SOMETHING THAT SHOULD ACTUALLY BE TERMED AN OXYMORON THESE DAYS, NAMELY A ‘POPULAR JAZZ BAND’.
USUALLY WHEN YOU THINK OF A JAZZ GIG, YOU THINK OF THE OLD JOKE THAT “ROCK AND ROLL IS GUYS PLAYING THREE CHORDS IN FRONT OF 2,000 PEOPLE, AND JAZZ IS GUYS PLAYING 2,000 CHORDS IN FRONT OF THREE PEOPLE”
SO WHY DOES SNARKY PUPPY PACK THEM IN IN PLACES LIKE THE NATIONAL STADIUM IN IRELAND, OR THE ORPHEUM THEATRE IN DOWNTOWN LA?
LEADER AND FOUNDER MICHAEL LEAGUE HAS CREATED A BAND THAT IS MORE THAN JUST ARTISTS GETTING TOGETHER; IT’S ALMOST LIKE A MOVEMENT OR A LIFESTYLE, WITH MEMBERS ROTATING IN AND OUT LIKE AN AGATHA CHRISTIE NOVEL, BUT THE STORY KEEPING COGENT, AS EACH ALBUM HAS IT’S OWN SOUND AND VOICE, YET THE SAME SIGNATURE STAMP.
BUT LEAGUE IS NOT SATISFIED WITH THIS ONE ASPECT OF HIS MUSICAL LIFE.
HE’S RECENTLY RELEASED A SOLO ALBUM (IN THE TRUEST SENSE OF THE WORD), TITLED SO MANY ME, AND IS THE MEMBER OF A NUMBER OF BANDS RANGING FROM C0-LEADER TO SIDEMAN.
WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CATCH UP WITH MICHAEL LEAGUE, WHO IS ABOUT TO TOUR WITH SNARKY PUPPY TO SUPPORT THEIR MOST RECENT ALBULM, EMPIRE CENTRAL. AS WITH HIS MUSIC, HE WAS ACCESSIBLE, BRIGHT, WIDE RANGING AND FOCUSED.
ALMOST ALL OF THE SNARKY PUPPY MEMBERS I’VE INTERVIEWED HAVE HAD CHURCH BACKGROUNDS. I KNOW YOU’VE PLAYED ON SOME GOSPEL ALBUMS; DID YOU ALSO GROW UP GOING TO CHURCH?
I didn’t grow up in the church, but when I was in high school, I did play in a band at the First Baptist Church of Vienna in Virginia. I really didn’t get into that music until I was about 21-22.
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“the instrument tells you what to play”.
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WERE YOU ATTRACTED TO IT MUSICALLY OR SPIRITUALLY OR BOTH?
Mostly musically, but I think it’s impossible to play well in one of those churches without a spiritual connection to what’s going on, even if it’s not specifically the thing that’s in the book.
I got hired to play in a black church. At a jazz jam session, a guy asked me if I’d play at his church. That guy at the time was a music director at a church in Fort Worth, but he ended up running Prince’s horn section.
The church band Bernard Wright and Jason JT Thomas, and a bunch of members in Roy Hargrove’s RH Factor. Through Bernard I became part of the scene, and before long I was only playing in churches or in clubs with bands that were all church musicians for about three years, before I moved to New York.
My musical life went from playing jazz gigs to almost exclusively church and club gigs.
WHAT DID THAT MUSICAL AND SPIRITUAL ENVIRONMENT TEACH YOU?
It’s a totally different musical language
I grew up studying jazz, which is Black American Music, but I didn’t study it in a black environment. Being in an environment where the vast majority of the musicians were black, and grew up in the church was fascinating. I was in the culture that birthed the music that I loved and studied.
I would draw the equivalency of growing up wanting to learn French, and speak it in a school outside of France, and then someone suddenly picks you up and drops you off in the middle of France for three years. Music is a language.
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“I don’t think that there’s any band in the world that can satisfy the entirety of your creative hunger”
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TO ME, THE BAND SNARKY PUPPY SEEMS LIKE MY OLD VW FAN; IT’S MORE OF AN ATTITUDE THAN A VEHICLE.
I thought you were going to say that it never works (laughs)
I wouldn’t disagree with you.
I’ve thought through many interviews what actually is Snarky Puppy. What can you possibly remove from it that would stop being Snarky Puppy. I don’t know that I’ve come to a conclusion because I think that you can remove any member, myself included, and it’s still Snarky Puppy.
The songs? If the band plays songs from other people but it sounds like Snarky Puppy, I guess it is more of a concept, an attitude, and a community. I can’t put my finger on it, but I’m glad that I don’t have to.
THE MEMBERS OF SNARKY PUPPY, YOURSELF INCLUDED, MAKE A NUMBER OF OTHER MUSICAL PROJECTS, SO SOME NEED MUST BE MET THIS WAY
I don’t think that there’s any band in the world that can satisfy the entirety of your creative hunger. Maybe there are some musicians that say “I really only want to do this thing with these people every night”, but every musical experience is so different. Sometimes I go on stage and just want to play really loud with a pick and a fuzz pedal, and Snarky Puppy is not normally that band. But, sometimes it can be!
Sometimes I really just want to play roots very quietly, and sing back in harmonies, and Snarky Puppy is not that band.
There are different itches that I like to scratch musically. Unlike in the rulebook of a typical monogamous relationship with music and with bands, every new musical experience you have only adds what you have to offer each of those other individual bands.
A big part of the Snarky Puppy attitude is the idea that playing in as many different environments as possible with as many different people as possible will strengthen you not only as an individual musician but also your contribution to Snarky Puppy. That’s why we’ve never been possessive, and members have come and gone and come back. That’s happened so many times. We just keep the door open and put everyone’s growth as our priority.
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“A big part of the Snarky Puppy attitude is the idea that playing in as many different environments as possible with as many different people as possible will strengthen you not only as an individual musician but also your contribution to Snarky Puppy”
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MAYBE THAT EXPLAINS WHY YOUR SOLO ALBUM IS SO DIFFERENT THAN OTHER PROJECTS YOU HAVE BEEN ON. IT WAS MUCH MORE INTIMATE AND FOLKSY
I have a lot of different sides as a musician, like every musician in 2020 that I know does. Every musician has interests to their musicianship.
I’ve always been a “song” person. I think that actually shows in Snarky Puppy, even though there are no lyrics. Composition is a very important thing for me in terms of song writing and story telling.
When I get in the car, I really don’t put on Return to Forever; I put on Michael McDonald, Stevie Wonder and Bjork.
It was an itch that I’ve always wanted to scratch.
When I was a kid in high school, I played in rock and pop bands; I wasn’t playing jazz. The pandemic offered me a great opportunity for me to really spend some time songwriting for myself and create this record. It also allowed me to challenge myself and play everything on the record, as one of my more developed talents as a musician is to know who to hire! (laughs)
In this case I had to throw that out the window and put the responsibility on my own shoulders. That was a fun process.
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“When I get in the car, I really don’t put on Return to Forever; I put on Michael McDonald, Stevie Wonder and Bjork.
It was an itch that I’ve always wanted to scratch”
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IS UNBOUNDED ALSO SIMPLY ANOTHER ITCH TO SCRATCH?
That was with Purbayan (Chatterjee). He just called me to play bass on that record. I love being a side person as well as being a band leader. I love when great musicians call and need me to do something. Working with Purbayan was a real pleasure because the record is so cool, and he’s such a heavy musician.
I also got to play with a lot of musicians who are both my friends that I’ve worked with before, and ones that I’ve always admired and have never had the chance to work with.
HOW ABOUT BOKANTE ?
That’s kind of like the little sibling to Snarky Puppy in that it’s a newer band. I started it maybe 6 years ago, rather than 20 with Snarky Puppy. It’s been a great outlet to explore all of the different possibilities for the blues. That’s how I see Bokante, as a blues band with its eyes wide open with a view to the varied direct musical and geographical directions in which the blues can go.
It’s also an opportunity to showcase and feature my great friend, singer Malika Tirolien, who’s also one of the most talented musicians I have ever worked with.
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“I see Bokante as a blues band with its eyes wide open with a view to the varied direct musical and geographical directions in which the blues can go”
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WHEN YOU LOOK FOR SOMEONE IN YOUR BAND, DO YOU LOOK FOR SOMEONE TO ADAPT TO YOUR MUSICAL WORLD, OR DO YOU LOOK FOR AN ARTIST TO BRING IN SOMETHING TO CHANGE THE FLAVOR? DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC CRITERIA?
It’s a bit of both.
You do have a vision for the band, and think who will be a great fit. When you think about that person, you say “oh, they’ll do this thing that I’m looking for”, but they also have this other thing that they can bring, and that can become a part of the band’s sound.
It’s never just one or the other. It’s never just “I’m going to hire you and my band will be based on your sound”, and it’s also not “this is the exact thing that I need, please do this exact thing”. It’s more like a balance between someone you think will be right for your concept, but also recognizing what it is they have to offer, and being observant of that. You have to open your mind up to the fact that they might help shape and create the music into ways that you didn’t even imagine. You have to be receptive to that, rather than shutting it down and try to convince someone stay in line.
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“one of my more developed talents as a musician is to know who to hire! (laughs)”
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HAS THE VISION OF THE BAND CHANGED DUE TO THE VARIOUS MUSICIANS COMING AND GOING?
The vision has definitely changed.
The over-arching vision and concept of combing musical genres to make music that is both hopefully deep and challenging, but at the same time totally accessible and groove-able and something that you don’t have a Phd in music to understand; that’s always been kind of vision and the melting pot of all of these musical ideas. That has stayed the same.
But the micro-vision changes every day. If it’s not changing, maybe you belong in a different space. (laughs)
Music is culture, and culture is people. People change and they grow every day, so you have to be plugged into that.
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“(Our) over-arching vision and concept (is) of combing musical genres to make music that is both hopefully deep and challenging, but at the same time totally accessible and groove-able and something that you don’t have a Phd in music to understand”
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IT SEEMS LIKE THAT GROUND UP IS THE LABEL VERSION OF YOUR BAND. WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A BAND THAT YOU SIGN UP FOR THE LABEL?
People that are good humans and easy to work with. That’s first. Then originality and creativity. People who are doing something that feels authentic and is their genuine voice.
Even though there are so many different genres and styles and people from different countries, and different races, I think that the thing that is common about them is that there is this kind of combination like Snarky P uppy. It’s like they make music that is very meaningful and deep, but at the same time not so overly intellectual that it can’t be understood by a normal person with a good ear.
My whole life I’ve been very inspired by very intellectual and complex music, and also simple, silly songs in a bar.
My main musical inspiration has come from artists who live in that middle zone where they’re able to create something of musical profundity and depth, while making it appealing both your ears and your body.
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“My whole life I’ve been very inspired by very intellectual and complex music, and also simple, silly songs in a bar”
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WHO IS LIKE THAT WHO INSPIRES YOU?
Stevie Wonder is an incredible example. So is Bjork, and of course bands like The Beatles. In the pop thing, a band like Hall and Oates is a great example of that kind of thing. Or James Taylor.
In classical music, you had Stravinsky. All of the composers in Western Classical Music have that thing. Most human beings can sing excerpts of classical symphonies. That is a testament to the accessibility of that music.
A lot of folklore traditional music is where I get a lot of musical inspiration as well. Because they have inherently had time to gestate, ferment and evolve inside of their zones, there is a lot of language happening that is super deep, but for them it is intuitive because they grew up around it.
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“A lot of folklore traditional music is where I get a lot of musical inspiration as well. Because they have inherently had time to gestate, ferment and evolve inside of their zones, there is a lot of language happening that is super deep, but for them it is intuitive because they grew up around it”
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I GREW UP LISTENING TO GREEK MUSIC, SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY HOW IT BECOMES PART OF YOU
My family is also Greek. My brother is a professor of Greek music and language
We still have family in Athens, Kefalonia and Galaxidi
That was the music that was kind of in our house. My brother had to make a concerted effort to get in there and learn it. But, it was easier for him than it would have been for an American who grew up listening to Indonesian Gamelon music.
Proximity makes a difference and culture makes a difference in learning musical traditions.
YOU’VE PLAYED BASS WITH TERENCE BLANCHARD, JOSHUA REDMAN, CHRIS POTTER, AND EVEN DAVID CROSBY. WERE ANY OF THESE, OR ANYTHING ELSE, LIKE A “BAPTISM BY FIRE” FOR YOU?
Not really.
All of those relationships formed in ways that were natural and normal.
It’s not a strange thing for a musician who plays jazz bass to get thrown on stage with someone that they’ve never played with and have to make music with them.
That was the case with Joshua. I was a big fan of his since I was a kid, and we put a group together for our GroundUp music festival in Miami. The first time I ever met him was at our rehearsal. That’s normal inside of our musical culture. People playing black American music are accustomed to that kind of thing.
Whenever I play with a hero, I definitely have this feeling of “Oh, My God! I can’t believe this is happening.” It was that way with David Crosby as well.
If you look at music as a cultural, lingual and communal thing, it gets rid of a lot of the pressure that we put on ourselves to try to impress in all of these kind of things. If you stop thinking about it in that kind of athletic way, and you start thinking of it in a more communal way, sharing all of this stuff together, you take a lot of pressure off yourself.
I’m not going to get any better in the five seconds before I step on stage and play with somebody. I’ve got what I’ve got, and I’m going to try to get on stage in order to create a beautiful sonic moment with somebody.
I feel that even the musicians that I admire the most in the world I wouldn’t feel intimidated working with them, because I know who I am as a musician, what I can offer them and what I cannot offer them. I wouldn’t try to sell them the latter.
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“If you look at music as a cultural, lingual and communal thing, it gets rid of a lot of the pressure that we put on ourselves to try to impress in all of these kind of things”
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IS YOUR FEEL DIFFERENT ON THE BASS WHEN YOU GO FROM ELECTRIC TO UPRIGHT?
They are such different instruments, but it still sounds like “me”. My rhythmic and melodic vocabulary, as well as the melodic concepts will be similar. Obviously the sound is different.
When you switch instruments, the instrument tells you what to play. Each instrument changes the decision making process.
I play the upright more on recordings than I do “live”.
YOU ALSO TEACH. WHAT IS THE MAIN THING YOU TRY TO CONVEY TO YOUR STUDENTS?
That has changed over the past few years.
My emphasis now goes more towards the idea that music comes from culture, and culture comes from specific people in specific places.
Whenever I’m teaching somebody, I feel like I am focused way less on the technical aspect of things, and focused more on the experiential side. I urge students to have as many experiences as they possibly can, and to get as close to the culture of the music as they possibly can.
I live in Spain. I just taught a semester at a school here, and a lot of what I was teaching them was they were only going to get musical information seconded handed if you stay here. You can develop your own thing and learn, but you’re going to have a totally set of tools if you are able to spend time in the place that created the music with the people that created the music that you’re studying.
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“My emphasis now goes more towards the idea that music comes from culture, and culture comes from specific people in specific places”
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Ten of my students came to the Dallas recording and worked as volunteers. They all told me that it changed their lives, going out after the shows and seeing all of these Texas musicians playing in clubs and bars. They had only seen this on Youtube before.
Being there also eliminates this barrier of self-doubt of being connected to the thing that you’re doing. You don’t feel like an outside; you’re in the club talking to these musicians. They feel like they’re inside the community, which gives them confidence in a small way.
It’s not the same as living there and playing there every week, but that barrier of ignorance kind of gets destroyed. They form a connection with the people who are creating that art.
That’s where I’m coming from now. I’m trying to provide a healthy dose of an emphasis on history. What we’re all doing as musicians is actually continuing a thing that has a lot of history, and we’re writing the new history of it.
It’s important to know where things come from, so that you’re equipped with the tools you need to evolve the thing, and that you don’t think that you’re doing something new, that it’s something someone already did and that you’re ignorant about it.
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“I’m trying to provide a healthy dose of an emphasis on history. What we’re all doing as musicians is actually continuing a thing that has a lot of history, and we’re writing the new history of it”
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WHAT IS YOUR PETE PEEVE ABOUT BASSISTS, AND WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN A BASSIST?
My pet peeve about bassists is my same for any musician; someone who is focused more on what they’re doing rather than what everyone around them is doing
GIVE ME A FEW BOOKS THAT YOU’VE READ THAT HAVE HELPED SHAPE WHO YOU ARE AND RECOMMEND TO OTHERS
The BFG by Roald Dahl. It’s just a beautifully creative book for children, but I think everybody can read it and dig it. I felt it was really stretching my imagination when I read it as a kid. I read it several times.
There’s another book on the more practical level called Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams by Matthew Walker. That really changed my life, just reading about the effects of sleep deprivation and the perks of getting rest every night.
I used to definitely deprive myself of sleep under the auspices of needing to feel productive, that I had to work long and hard enough, and not slow down in that way. I thereby improved the quality of my work and life.
I’m also a huge fan of Orwell; 1984 is incredible. I think it’s important that artists have an ear to the political and social ground, because ultimately what we’re doing is reflecting what’s happening, and sharing our perspectives.
That’s a good triumvirate of books for you.
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“It’s not a strange thing for a musician who plays jazz bass to get thrown on stage with someone that they’ve never played with and have to make music with them”
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IS THERE ANY PHILOSOPHY, RELIGION OR TEACHING THAT HAS INFLUENCED YOU AS A MOTIVATING FACTOR?
My parents definitely instilled in my brother and me a very serious work ethic. Laziness was just not tolerated in our house (chuckles). That has definitely stuck with me.
My parents genuinely wanted my brother and me to be happy. They put a big emphasis on enjoying things; having a positive outlook and that life is to be enjoyed no matter how much or little you have.
I’ve always been a person who just likes most things in life. There are few things in life where I think “I don’t like that”.
I love the experience of just being alive, and even in very tough moments I try to keep that at the forefront of my mind, continuing to try to enjoy all of the experiences.
In a word, “Optimism”. In an optimistic way, there is something to be gained and to grow in every situation, even the very tough ones.
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“In a word, “Optimism”. In an optimistic way, there is something to be gained and to grow in every situation, even the very tough ones”
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IS THERE A MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, THAT YOU WOULD PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
Louis Armstrong, and Ella Fitzgerald. That’s a gig that I’d pay to see those two together.
I just think that it’s one of the most swinging and joy-inducing combinations of musicians in history; it’s just so heavy.
Also Charlie Christian. It’s just so unbelievable how quickly he was able to develop this vocabulary on an instrument that people weren’t dealing with so much. Same thing with Django Reinhardt.
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“I feel that even the musicians that I admire the most in the world I wouldn’t feel intimidated working with them, because I know who I am as a musician, what I can offer them and what I cannot offer them. I wouldn’t try to sell them the latter”
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IS THERE ANYONE IN WORLD HISTORY THAT YOU’D LIKE TO SIT DOWN WITH FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
I think that Ben Franklin was a most amazing man. He seems like he was such a cool person to talk to; funny, brilliant, charming and with so many talents and skills.
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
What gives me the most joy is creativity. Just feeling creative and productive, which can take a lot of different forms.
WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
To keep growing, evolving and stretching myself in new directions. Staying productive and creative. Learning is my real goal.
ANY TIME SOON COMING TO CALIFORNIA?
Next year, for sure
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
I really don’t want to have one.
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“My pet peeve about bassists is my same for any musician; someone who is focused more on what they’re doing rather than what everyone around them is doing”
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THE KEY TO LIFE IS TO BE INTERESTED IN BEING INTERESTED.
GK CHESTERTON
THAT QUOTE BY THE FAMED BRITISH THEOLOGIAN POPS OUT WHEN LISTENING TO THE MULTI-INTRIGUED LEAGUE. HE HAS MADE HIS MUSIC AN INTEGRATED PART OF HIS WORLD VIEW, SHARING IT WITH FRIENDS, MANY OF WHOM ARE IN THE AUDIENCE ENJOYING THE SOUNDS. NOT MANY ARTISTS SEE THEIR CRAFT AS A SHARING OF LIFE, BUT LEAGUE HAS MASTERED THAT ABILITY, AND IT OBVIOUSLY HAS TOUCHED A NERVE WITH A GENERATION OF PEOPLE LOOKING TO USE MUSIC AS A MEANS TO COMMUNITY. IT’S HARD TO ARGUE WITH THE SUCCESS OF A MUSICAL FRIEND.