IT HAS BEEN HALF A CENTURY SINCE ORGANIST RONNIE FOSTER DEBUTED ON BLUE NOTE WITH HIS SOUL JAZZ CLASSIC THE TWO HEADED FREEP.
YOU THINK A LOT HAS CHANGED IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY AND CULTURE SINCE THEN? OH BOY!
BUT RONNIE FOSTER HASN’T, MUCH TO HIS CREDIT
HAVING STARTED OUT PLAYING THE HAMMOND B3 FOR ARTISTS LIKE GEORGE BENSON AND GRANT GREEN, FOSTER CARVED HIS OWN NICHE IN THE DEEPLY GROOVED FUNKIFIED FEEL OF JAZZ FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. BESIDES THAT, HE MADE A HEALTHY LIVING AS A PRODUCER AS WELL AS STUDIO SIDEMAN FOR CLASSIC ALBUMS BY BENSON, STEVIE WONDER AND ROBERTA FLACK.
HIS LATEST RELEASE, REBOOT, HAS HIM RETURNING TO HIS ORIGINAL HOME LABEL, BLUE NOTE. THE ALBUM ITSELF IS A RETURN TO HIS FIRST LOVE, DEEPLY BLUESY AND SOULFULLY GROOVED TUNES, MOSTLY IN THE CLASSIC B3 TRIO FORMAT.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH MR. FOSTER, WHO WAS KIND ENOUGH TO SH ARE HIS TH OUGHTS ON HIS CAREER, INSPIRATIONS AND WORLD VIEW ON MUSIC.
YOU DEDICATED YOUR MOST RECENT ALBUM TO DR. LONNIE SMITH. WHAT EFFECT DID HE HAVE ON YOUR LIFE?
First of all, we were Buffalo (NY) homies, born and raised. Early in his career he was very kind to me and supportive, and later on we became closer as I became an artist in the music world. We shared an appreciation of each other and a deep love. I was speaking to him every two weeks before he passed. It was very sad what happened to him. I still feel that pain today.
WHAT DID HE IMPART TO YOU, EITHER FOR MUSIC OR LIFE?
I learned a lot from him by example. Not just talking about music, he showed me a ****lot. We both have the same feeling about music being connected emotionally to what we did.
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“(Dr. Lonnie Smith) showed me a lot. We both have the same feeling about music being connected emotionally to what we did”
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WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE HAMMOND B3 THAT CAN STIR UP SUCH A VISCERAL RESPONSE?
It’s not just the Hammond; any instrument is emotional if you’re connected to it.
In our case, it just became a thing
I started out just playing around on piano; I was self-taught.
I ended up going to a jam session where they told me there was a piano. But, ****there wasn’t a piano there; it was a B3. That changed my life. I thought I’d go up and try it, and it was history for me as far as that goes.
I started going to a local Hammond dealer in Buffalo , and for fifty cents I could play for half an hour. After awhile, the guy would just say, “After you pay your fifty cents, if no one is in line to play, you can go as long as you want.” It was a beautiful thing, to say the least.
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“It’s not just the Hammond; any instrument is emotional if you’re connected to it”
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WHAT WAS THERE TO ADAPT FROM GOING FROM PIANO TO B3?
When I was playing piano, I was in this small group with my drummer Virgil Jay. Just the two of us; we were called The Duo Brothers.
So I gravitated to playing bass with my left hand since we didn’t have a bass player. So, when I transitioned to organ it was already kind of there, even though I had to work on separation a lot more.
The whole thing is, with organ, you’re playing most of the time in the jazz trio situation you’re playing left hand bass, exiting with pedals and doing the full chords with the right hand.
With the organ, it’s like you’re two people. When I think about it now, I don’t know how it came about.
A big change came for me, because when I played organ for George (Benson), I took Lonnie’s place when I was 15 on weekends. When George said “Hey, you want to play some piano with me?” it became a whole ‘nother animal for me because I had to go and get back into that concept.
BEFORE WE GET INTO BENSON, LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL WITH GRANT GREEN.
I originally met Grant after I got out of high school and was working with this trio with vibes, organ and drums in Indianapolis. The vibraphonist’s name was Billy Wooten and the drummer was Harold Caldwell. They were waiting for me to get ***out of high school and an hour after got my diploma, I was on a bus and gone for two years!
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“(Grant Green was) waiting for me to get out of high school and an hour after got my diploma, I was on a bus and gone for two years!”
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WAS THAT YOUR FIRST PROFESSIONAL GIG?
No. My first professional gig was kind of crazy.
I was rehearsing with this band; it had James Clark, James was on drums, and Herbie was the sax player. We were playing at this supper club, and we had a rehearsal in the afternoon. They told me that it was for the music for an exotic dancer.
I was only 14, and the only reason they let me play was because it was a “supper club”.
We started the show. We played a couple of tunes, and they make the announcement “Ladies and gentlemen, our beautiful exotic dancer for tonight….Miss Vanilla Wafer!”
So she comes out, and we’re playing “Caravan” (hums the tune) and she starts taking some clothes off! I’m only 14, and I sort of lost focus and kept holding the same chord for a long time until someone yelled “Hey Ronnie!” (laughs)
It was an experience! In fact, I have a Mini-Cooper that is vanilla colored, and I named it “Vanilla Wafer” (laughs)
That was my first professional gig.
I ASSUME THAT DIDN’T DIRECTLY LEAD TO YOUR MEETING WITH GRANT GREEN. WHAT DID?
When I started playing in Indianapolis with the Billy Wooten Trio, there was a gig that we did that Grant was on. That’s where I met him, and I was obviously a big fan of him and Larry Young.
I was in Buffalo one day, (and to this day , I don’t understand how this happened, because we didn’t have cell phones back then) walking down Jefferson Avenue with my guitar player. This guy just comes up to me and says, “Hey man, you need to go home. Stanley Turrentine is trying to get in touch with you.
So I go home, and there’s a message. It said “I need you to come up to New Jersey” His wife (Melba Liston) was his organist, but they got into a fight and she left. He had two more nights to,
I went up and did that. Stan was a friend of mine from Buffalo. Stan tells me “there’s another gig in Chicago; I’m just waiting for the confirmation”. Old School stuff.
I’m back. And one day, there’s a knock at the door. I don’t know to this day how he found me, but it was Grant. He says “Ronnie, you’re coming with me!” What am I supposed to say?
So I went on the road with Grant, and it was a beautiful experience. It led to my signing with Blue Note. We did the Alive! album.
WAS YOUR GIG WITH STANLEY, WITH GRANT, OR WITH VANILLA WAFER YOUR “BAPTISM BY FIRE” WHERE YOU THOUGHT YOU’D MAKE IT OR BREAK IT WITH A CERTAIN GIG?
No. To this moment, it’s always been that I just love to play.
I never have an agenda or thought process like that. I love to play, and having a chance to play with these guys.
For example…In Buffalo there was a club called The Revela, which is where I met a lot of people. Johnny “Hammond” Smith, Herbie Hancock, McCoy Tyner, Groove Holmes…everybody came through that club.
They’d always ask me to play. Johnny “Hammond” Smith told me, “you know why we ask you to play? Because we know you love to play and that you’re not trying to prove anything”.
I still feel that way. You just play “you” and present who you are. If you’re on board, you’re on board. But you’ve got to be true; that’s the thing.
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“Johnny “Hammond” Smith told me, “ou know why we ask you to play? Because we know you love to play and that you’re not trying to prove anything'”
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DID YOU GET ANY DIRECTIONS FROM GREEN WHEN YOU PLAYED WITH HIM?
A lot of what I got from Grant was also by example, and just by being in the presence of these masters.
The same with George (Benson). It wasn’t so much hands-on teaching as being in their midst and them sharing their knowledge.
One time I was doing a gig with Stanley in Buffalo. I’m playing, and he just says, “You know that you’re rushing, right?” (laughs). “I am?” and he said, “Yeah, you’re rushing really bad!” So I learned, and worked on correcting that.
It could have been me just being more excited.
I’m very fortunate, and I’m humbled by the musicians I’ve known.
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“You just play “you” and present who you are. If you’re on board, you’re on board. But you’ve got to be true; that’s the thing”
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HOW DID YOU GET TO KNOW JIMMY SMITH?
I met Jimmy when I was twelve.
He was my main influence and mentor. He was like a dad to me.
The club owner at The Royal Arms, where a lot of the top jazz acts come to Buffalo, used to sneak me in. “Just go into that corner; just stay there. You can’t move, because you’re not supposed to be here”
That corner was right at the corner of the stage where I could see everybody.
I hadn’t met Jimmy, but I told Joe, the owner “Jimmy’s coming into town. Where’s he staying?” It was at some old hotel on Main Street.
So I called Jimmy’s room, and he picks up the phone, with his unmistakable voice, says “Hello”.
“Hello Jimmy. This is Ronnie Foster, the local organ player. You’ve got to show me something”
Jimmy just said,”Boy,,when you hear me play, you won’t want to play anymore!”
I told him I really wanted to learn, and he said, “Boy, you aren’t listening to me. You’re going to want to throw your organ away.”
But I persisted. I knew what he was doing. He was checking to see how hungry I was.
He asked what time I got out of school. I told him 3 o’clock. He said, “Be down at the club” and that started a whole relationship.
He had a BIG influence on my career. He introduced me to George Benson when I was 14. George and I then started hanging out. George came in the last night Jimmy was playing at this club, because George was starting the next week. That’s when George had The Cook Book out with Ronnie Cuber.
When Lonnie left to go out on his own, I took over on weekends, as I said before. That’s when we made history, with albums like Breezin’ and stuff.
I also learned a lot from Jack McDuff, who was before Lonnie. I had a full p late of masters to eat from.
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“I told (Jimmy Smith) I really wanted to learn, and he said, “Boy, you aren’t listening to me. You’re going to want to throw your organ away.”
But I persisted. I knew what he was doing. He was checking to see how hungry I was”
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FOR AN ALBUM LIKE THE CLASSIC GOOD KING BAD, DID YOU FEEL LIKE “I’M WITH BENSON, I’VE MADE IT”? OR DID YOU FEEL THAT MORE WITH YOUR FIRST BLUE NOTE SESSION?
I felt noticed; not that I finally “made it”. I felt that I ‘made it’ in the sense that I ****was able to create music with guys like that. It wasn’t an ego thing; I actually felt humbled because you have so much respect for those guys.
I always say that when you hear a Master play, it’s a different experience than when you hear a great player play. There are light years between them.
These guys set the table from which we eat to this day.
People will say, “Oh, Jimmy wasn’t all that great”. Are you kidding? Jimmy created the genre!! And he has his own voice!
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” when you hear a Master play, it’s a different experience than when you hear a great player play. There are light years between them
These guys set the table from which we eat to this day”
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ON EITHER CLASSICS LIKE GOOD KING BAD OR BREEZIN’, DID YOU FEEL AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE DOING ANYTHING SPECIAL, OR WAS IT ‘JUST ANOTHER RECORD’?
Neither one was “just another gig”, but the thing about it was that the song “Lady” which I wrote, was custom made for George, written for him in mind. When I did the demo for him, he was supposed to scat the melody (does a scat), but when we got into the studio, he just played it. What am I going to say? (laughs)
And it was just great.
When I think of those days when we did Breezin with Tommy LiPuma, and Al Schmidt with Weekend in LA, it was a full, open and creative experience for everybody in the band. You weren’t restricted in creation; you always felt freedom to do whatever you had to do. 2020
CAN YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE?
On the album Weekend In LA, for “On Broadway” there’s this lick (sings an ascending riff) that is now synonymous with the song.
If you listen, when I’m doing it on the Mini-Moog, what I’m actually doing is developing something that doesn’t fully develop until a few bars later. That’s the kind of freedom we had. We were recording, and I just felt that, and did it.
YOU’VE BEEN ON TWO CLASSIC JAZZ LABELS, BLUE NOTE AND CTI. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM?
I think that CTI was the runner-up to Blue Note. It brought some other things in. ***The production was different. Blue Note has to be Number One; that’s where everyone was at one time. To be one of those artists was great. It still humbles me to this day.
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“Blue Note has to be Number One; that’s where everyone was at one time. To be one of those artists was great. It still humbles me to this day”
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AND YOUR LATEST ALBUM IS AGAIN WITH BLUE NOTE. HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE BACK IN THE FOLD?
It’s great, and we’re getting a great response from the first single (“Reboot”).
I was talking to (album producer) Don Was, and I told him that it’s humbling for him to believe in my music. I asked him after the recording “Did you like the music?” and he said, “Man, I love everything; just do it”. How often do you hear that from a record company?
And Don is a genius.
There’s a piece that I improvised on piano after a conversation with a friend and it ended up on the album. When I sent the song to Don, I wasn’t planning on putting it on the record. I told him it was just something I wanted him to hear, because it was a compassionate piece for a very good who was going through some stuff.
A few days later he called me and said, “That piano piece you did; I think that it should be the last number on the organ record we just did”. I said, “Don, it’s just piano” and he said “That’s right”.
YOU ALSO DO A SOLO PIECE ON ORGAN FOR “J’S DREAM”
That was written for my ex-girlfriend. It was a very emotional piece.
I’m always surprised; when we’ve played it live, the audience is really into it, which is great.
WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE B3 TRIO AND THE GUITAR? IT’S LIKE PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY
You know how it started! Thank you, Jimmy!
It just works. It also works with saxophone, but it’s a little different. It’s a little more intimate with just guitar.
It’s not broken, so don’t fix it.
YOU HAVE ALSO PLAYED WITH VOCAL GROUPS LIKE THE TEMPTATIONS, OR SINGERS LIKE ROBERTA FLACK AND DONNY HATHAWAY. DO YOU APPROACH THE HAMMOND DIFFERENTLY IN THOSE SETTINGS?
At the end of the day it’s all music, but you respect what’s going on musically and try to add to it.
I did The Closer I Get To You with Donny and Roberta and did an album with Dee Dee Bridgewater.
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“This kid comes up and says “Let me show you guys something” and he plays all this stuff all over.
He looks at us for a response. Lonnie goes ‘Did you really mean that?’” (laughs)
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HOW DID YOU GET INTO PRODUCING?
That was kind of a weird thing…
George Butler was at Columbia Records then, and I did two albums for Columbia back in the day.
I was doing some writing, and there’s this Brazilian singer/guitarist artist superstar Djavan. Sony Brazil came to New York and said that they were looking for a producer, wanting an American production for a Brazilian artist. They got in touch with George, and he said, “I know a guy”, which was me. I met him, and we hit it off.
That’s my first production ever, and it’s a historical record!
I even had Stevie Wonder come down to do harmonica. It was fun and the record became a hit.
I produced a lot of Brazilian artists over five years, and had a lot of success with that.
That’s how the Turrentine thing came up. Bruce Lundvall (the head of Blue Note at the time) called me and said, “You’re now a producer! How about doing something with Stanley?” It was like a reunion of our first meeting! After all of this time I finally get to produce this guy!
YOU ALSO DID A MAJOR SOULD ALBUM WITH STEVIE WONDER, SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE. WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?
Steve and I are best friends; we’re born a day apart, because he’s always a day younger than I, so I always tell him to respect his elders. (laughs)
So he called me in for “Summer Soft”, which is not an easy song to play, by the way. George is also on that record.
Steve is another one of the masters.
And he can play! I did a couple of tours with him, and he would play “Giant Steps”. It’s hard enough as it is, but he would modulate and go up two whole steps, and then keep going. He’d then say, “I’m done! See Ya”
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“(Stevie Wonder) can play! I did a couple of tours with him, and he would play “Giant Steps”. It’s hard enough as it is, but he would modulate and go up two whole steps, and then keep going. He’d then say, ‘I’m done! See Ya’”
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WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR IN A B3 PLAYER, AND WHAT IS YOUR PET PEEVE?
You have a lot of players who are technically proficient, but there’s a lack of emotion.
I’m going back to all of the guys that I was around and how important that emotion is as a foundation of what you’re doing.
I always say, “One note void of emotion equals zero”
Some times you see someone and think “Man, this guy’s got chops; he’s crazy”, but did he really say something?
Lonnie and I were at NAMM one time at the Hammond booth. This kid comes up and says “Let me show you guys something” and he plays all this stuff all over.
He looks at us for a response. Lonnie goes “Did you really mean that?” (laughs)
With the organ it’s really about the feeling, sound and emotion.
The best guy that I know, ever, about feeling, was Billy Preston.
We did a session one time for a friend with three organists-there was Gerry Peters (who also produced my albums on Sony) , a great organist who comes from the church, Billy Preston comes from the church, and I, who comes from wherever I come from. We did this at my studio.
A friend of us wanted us on three different tunes.
I remember when Billy got on the organ, I was really freaking out. All throughout the song he was creating these color scapes. It was amazing; I felt it on my brain!
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“You have a lot of players who are technically proficient, but there’s a lack of emotion”
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THE BEST ORGANISTS MIX CHURCH, PICNICS, BASEBALL GAMES AND ROLLER SKATING RINKS
You’re right (laughs)
For any musician, The main thing is to be emotionally connected. It’s not just notes.
As fast as George plays, and that’s part of his things, as he’s just a speed demon, when he plays fast, it means something.
These days you see a lot of these young guys, and they can play all of these notes, but it’s just flash and no substance.
A lot of that problems comes with some of these jazz programs in these colleges ****and schools. They teach them the notes, the kids learn these songs and they listen to everyone, but they are not told what’s connected to make the music sound like that-how to feel it. That’s how it sounds like something.
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“With the organ it’s really about the feeling, sound and emotion”
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WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
Jimmy would be number one.
AN PERSON, MUSICIAN OR NOT, LIVING OR DEAD, WOUL D YOU LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK THEIR BRAIN?
There are a lot, but I’m only going to name one.
Keith Jarrett.
I’m a big fan of Keith.
You know how we’ve been talking about being emotionally connected to the music? This guy is literally in the piano. If you’ve seen him perform, you know what I’m talking about.
That is one of the beautiful things. People say, “Why’s he making all that noise? “ Because he’s really connected to what he’s doing; it’s very obvious.
What he does is beautiful, and his spectrum of playing is very wide.
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“One time I was doing a gig with Stanley in Buffalo. I’m playing, and he just says, “You know that you’re rushing, right?” (laughs). “I am?” and he said, “Yeah, you’re rushing really bad!” So I learned, and worked on correcting that”
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ARE THERE ANY BOOKS YOU’VE READ YOU WISH EVERYONE WOULD READ?
I don’t read a lot, but George Benson’s biography is a good book. Not because he mentions me, but because it’s a good book for learning a lot about him.
There’s a guy named Joe Madison that came out of Buffalo. A great influence, like Lonnie. Guys like this I was physically connected to. Jack McDuff…I’d sit on the organ bench with him. Groove Holmes, Charles Earland, Herbie Hancock-I met him when I was 13. Don Patterson, John Patten…these people directly influenced me.
Melvin Rhyne. When I was in Indianapolis I got together with Melvin and jammed with him. That’s what influences me.
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“For any musician, The main thing is to be emotionally connected. It’s not just notes”
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IS THERE ANY TEACHING, PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGION THAT HAS MOTIVATED YOU DURING YOUR LIFE?
As I get older, I definitely appreciate things more.
I laugh about it all of the time, but I think about getting resigned by Blue Note 50 years after starting with them. I started when I was 21, and they resigned me at 71. It’s crazy. It says something.
I told (producer) Don Was “I want you to know that I feel that this is a genuine ****thing” because sometimes these guys think “Oh, we’ve got to throw a bone to this old guy and do a record.” It wasn’t like that, and the record doesn’t feel like that.
The team, and the fact that I still feel that I have a lot to say musically, the team at Blue Note is like ten people, and they are just amazing.
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“sometimes these (record) guys think “Oh, we’ve got to throw a bone to this old guy and do a record.” It wasn’t like that, and the record doesn’t feel like that”
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ARE YOU GOING TO TOUR WITH THE ALBUM
Oh, yes. My son is playing drums. Michael O’Neil, who is George’s rhythm guitarist, is my guitarist. Michael and I have done a lot of things together with a couple of bands that I was in.
We’re in LA on the 31st of July, with “Jazz Is Dead. The Music Don’t Stop” at Highland Park.
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“You know how we’ve been talking about being emotionally connected to the music? (Keith Jarrett) is literally in the piano. If you’ve seen him perform, you know what I’m talking about”
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CAN YOU BELIEVE YOU’RE STILL DOING THIS?
Oh, yes. At 4th grade I knew what I wanted to do. I’m humbled every day. I’m happy that my son is on the record and we’re touring together.
IS IT MORE FUN PLAYING FOR BLUE NOTE, OR PLAYING WITH YOUR SON?
Both! And my daughter designed the cover!
DO YOU HAVE ANY FUTURE GOALS?
Just keep playing music.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR FUNERAL?
“He loved what he did” and “he loved everybody”. There’s too much hate in the world.
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As I get older, I definitely appreciate things more.
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RONNIE FOSTER IS RIGHT; AS YOU GET OLDER, YOU DO APPRECIATE THINGS MORE, ESPECIALLY THE SIMPLE MERCIES OF LIFE. IN MUSIC, YOU FIRST MIGHT FALL IN LOVE WITH SOMEONE’S TECHNICAL PROFICIENCY OR CHOPS. BUT AS YOU MATURE, YOU APPRECIATE MORE BASIC THINGS, LIKE A MELODY, A STORY, AND AN EMOTION. RONNIE FOSTER HAS CARVED OUT A CAREER FOCUSING ON THE DNA OF MUSIC, WHICH IS FEELING. OTHERWISE, WHY NOT JUST LISTEN TO A MACHINE?