SOME STYLES OF MUSIC NEVER CHANGE AND BECOME TIMELESS. IT TAKES A CERTAIN TYPE OF ARTISTIC VISION TO CREATE A STYLE AND ULTIMATELY EMBODY IT.
BACK IN THE LATE 1960S AND EARLY 1970S, DAVID COUSINS WAS ON THE VANGUARD OF A ‘NEW’ STYLE OF MUSIC THAT COMBINED BOTH ENGLISH AND AMERICAN FOLK WITH WHAT BECAME KNOWN AS ‘PROGRESSIVE ROCK’. DURING THIS PERIOD, HIS GROUP, THE STRAWBS MIXED RICH AND THOUGHTFUL LYRICS WITH INITIALLY PASTORAL SOUNDS, EVENTUALLY PLUGGING IN TO SOUND LIKE A COMPETITOR FOR THE LIKES OF BANDS SUCH AS YES AND KING CRIMSON. IN FACT, LEGENDERY KEYBOARDIST RICK WAKEMEN CUT HIS TEETH UNDER THE TUTLAGE OF COUSINS’ BAND.
WHILE THEIR POPULARITY WAXED AND WANED IN THE UNITED STATES, THEIR CREATIVITY REMAINED CONSISTENT. DURING THEIR HALCYON DAYS, THE STRAWBS RELEASED CLASSIC ALBUMS SUCH AS FROM THE WITCHWOOD, GRAVE NEW WORLD, BURSTING AT THE SEAMS, HERO AND HEROINE, AND GHOSTS.
BANDS HAVE THEIR UPS AND DOWNS, SO WHAT A SURPRISE IT WAS TO HEAR THE STRAWBS MOST RECENT RELEASE SETTLEMENT. NOT ONLY DID WAS THE ALBUM A REUNION OF SORTS WITH OLD-TIMERS LIKE JOHN FORD, DAVE LAMBERT AND CHAS CRONK JOINING IN, BUT THE SONGS WERE IMPRESSIVELY STRONG, WITH COUSINS STILL UP TO THE TASK OF MIXING THOUGHT PROVOKING LYRICS WITH PANORAMIC MELODIES.
WE RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH DAVID COUSINS VIA ZOOM, WITH THIS CONVERSATION SHOWING THAT HE’S NOT JUST RESTING ON HIS PAST LAURELS, BUT IS REJUVINATED BY THE LATEST POPULARITY OF THIS ALBUM.
I WAS AT YOUR 1976 TOUR WITH THE STRAWBS AT THE SANTA MONICA CIVIC, WHERE SOMETHING UNIQUE HAPPENED. THE THEATRE WAS ONLY 1/10 FULL, BUT THE AUDIENCE WAS SO ENTHUSIASTIC THAT YOU NOT ONLY DID TWO ENCORES, BUT EVEN A THIRD ONE AFTER THE THEATRE LIGHTS HAD GONE BACK ON. THE CROWD DID NOT WANT YOU TO LEAVE.
I do remember that tour very well. It was the last major tour that we did in the 70s, and our first as headliners in the USA.
We started the tour with sellout audiences for two concerts in New York, but as we went across the country the audiences got smaller and smaller.
We were always much more popular on the East Coast than the West, and I was very disappointed by that. The record company A&M was based in Hollywood, and they must have been disappointed as well. It was just one of those things.
We were the first British band signed to A&M. I always thought that when we first signed with them (not ever having been in the USA) that, having listened to American music, that ours would be far more popular in California than anywhere else. It was entirely the reverse; we were far more popular in New York, Boston and all up and down the East Coast. The further west we went the crowds just dwindled away.
WAS THAT YOUR LAST TIME PLAYING THE WEST COAST?
No we played 5-6 years ago in Los Angeles at McCabe’s Guitar Shop, also playing in Berkeley, San Juan Capistrano and San Diego. When we tour now, it’s with the Acoustic Trio, which is actually the front line of the band, Dave Lambert and Chas Cronk.
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“I turned the album down to half speed, and listened to it over and over again until I could figure out what the finger picking pattern that he was doing”
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YOU ARE UNIQUE IN BRITISH MUSIC IN THAT YOU WERE ONE OF THE VERY FIRST ENGLISH MUSICIANS TO PLAY BLUEGRASS AND BANJO. WHAT WAS YOUR INSPIRATION FOR THAT?
When lps first came out, I managed to get ahold of an album called The Newport Folk Festival. On it were 2-3 songs by Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs.
I was listening to it and playing flailing banjo at the time, called “Americana” . I’d been taught by a woman named Suzie Shawn, the daughter of Ben Shawn, a famous American socialist artist.
But when I heard Earl Scruggs, I wanted to play like that, but I couldn’t figure it out.
It so happened that the record player that I had at the time could play 33 1/3 rpm records at half speed, so I turned the album down to half speed, and listened to it over and over again until I could figure out what the finger picking pattern that he was doing.
I was entirely self-taught as a banjo player, learning how to play “Foggy Mountain Breakdown” and all those songs.
We didn’t have a name when we first started playing this sort of music. We got our first gig when everyone would go out every Friday night and play. Someone came up to us and said he wanted to book us for his folk club in London.
He asked us what the name of the band was, and we told him we hadn’t got a name.
We were rehearsing in Strawberry Hill, in Suzie Shawn’s apartment, and started thinking about Strawberry Hill and the Foggy Mountain Boys, so we became the Strawberry Hill Boys and went out and played bluegrass music around all of the folk clubs. There was nobody else doing it; we were totally unique.
I started playing faster and faster as it went on, at a ridiculous speed. Then American artists started to come over, and I did a tour of American air bases with Bill Clifton (whose real name was Bill Malberg) who was a friend of Bill Monroe.
He brought Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys over to the UK. I sat and watched him and his banjo player Bill Keith. Afterwards we talked and talked, and we showed each other how we played. I realized American banjo players played it much tougher and harder than I did. My playing had become very mechanical, so I gradually dropped playing banjo. I still play it, but in very different ways and in the bluegrass tradition if you like.
In the same way I use guitar tunings for my songs, I tune my banjo differently than the way anyone else tunes their 5 string banjo, but I’m not going to give you the trick and secret of it. (chuckles)
What that means is that any American 5 string banjo player who wanted to play the licks that I play would ask “How does he move up that finger board like that?” It’s a little trick I’ve got.
I showed it at a Folk Festival to a professor of banjo in a university in Virginia, and he said, “My God, in all the years I’ve been playing bluegrass banjo I’ve never seen anyone use that technique.” So, it’s probably going around the States now.
I like to invent things. What I like to do is to try different tunings on guitar, dulcimer and banjo. This is what gives our songs their originality.
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“I like to invent things. What I like to do is to try different tunings on guitar, dulcimer and banjo. This is what gives our songs their originality”
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YOU PLAY THE BANJO A FEW TIMES ON YOUR ALBUM FROM THE WITCHWOOD. THE MIX OF ENGLISH MINSTREL MUSIC WITH A BANJO IS VERY APPEALING AND DISTINCTIVE.
Tony Visconti produced that album, and got the most beautiful sound because he had a reverb echo that went from one side with the banjo and the echo on the other to create a whole spectrum. It just sounded so magical.
On the opening track of the album (“A Glimpse of Heaven”) I am playing bluegrass banjo over Rick Wakeman’s organ lick. That’s what The Strawbs did and still do.
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“On the opening track of the album (“A Glimpse of Heaven”) I am playing bluegrass banjo over Rick Wakeman’s organ lick. That’s what The Strawbs did and still do”
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IN THE VERY EARLY DAYS, SANDY DENNY WAS YOUR SINGER. DID SHE CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE BAND TO MAKE IT MORE OF A FOLK BAND?
Not at all. I was writing my own songs. We didn’t sing one folk song with Sandy Denny; we just sang the songs I’d written.
It was the other way around; she was singing folk songs, and I made her a pop singer.
In fact, my argument is that if that album with her had come out at the time and we’d had have a couple of hit singles, Sandy Denny would have become the equivalent of Dusty Springfield. She was magnificent and could have gone into that direction.
She went on to Fairport Convention because she was frightened of being “sucked down” into the pop world, which was actually much more where I wanted to be. She was nervous of that, which is why she left us.
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“if that album with (Sandy Denny” had come out at the time and we’d had have a couple of hit singles, Sandy Denny would have become the equivalent of Dusty Springfield. She was magnificent and could have gone into that direction”
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YOUR FIRST TWO ALBUMS ARE MOSTLY ACOUSTIC STRINGS. WAS IT A BIG STEP TO ADD DRUMS AND ELECTRIC GUITAR FOR THE NEXT FEW ALBUMS?
When we signed to A&M Records, we were a trio. Two acoustic guitars and a string bass. By that time, we were abbreviated from The Strawberry Hill Boys to The Strawbs. The told us to keep that names as we were getting pretty well known in the UK and getting a huge number of radio shows at the BBC. We were the most played group by far.
For our second album, I felt we needed a more melodic instrument, so we added a cello. Claire Denise was the principal cellist for a ballet company orchestra, and she couldn’t stand it. She took this valuable antique cello on the road, and I kept dropping mics on it! So she left the band.
I figured we needed another melodic lead instrument, so I invited Rick Wakeman to join the band.
HOW DID YOU FIND HIM?
We did a radio show after our second album. The BBC booked us for a Saturday show, and it was decided that we needed an organ player to augment the trio. Tony Visconti, our producer, told us he knew this guy Rick Wakeman, and he came in and played the parts beautifully.
We went into a pub after the show, had a few drinks, exchanged addresses and phone numbers, and I invited Rick to play on our second album, Dragonfly.
When the album came out, I put his name on the album, “Thanks to Rick Wakeman on the piano” and sent him a copy of the album. He sent me a letter thanking me for putting his name on it, “it’s the first time I’ve ever had my name on a record sleeve”,
So we arranged to have another drink at lunch time. He brought his fiancé with him to the pub, and I asked him if he’d fancy joining the band.
I’m not exaggerating when I say that his hand was shaking, because he was really excited about the idea. He said “Yes”, and we told him that our first gig was in two weeks time in Paris.
He said “I can’t make it. I’m getting married”
I asked him where they were going on a honeymoon, and he said, “We’re not going on a honeymoon; we haven’t got any money.”
“So, why not bring your wife to Paris with you for your honeymoon?”
So Rick Wakeman’s first gig with the Strawbs was on his honeymoon in Paris, playing a Rock and Roll Circus under a big top tent where we had to accompany the circus acts. While we were accompanying the high wire act, there was a big roar in the audience. I turn around, and Salvador Dali walks on stage, waving a stick at the audience, and the crowd going wild.
Rick turns to me and says “Who the &*)@# is that?” while still playing the organ. “It’s Salvador Dali! Don’t stop”. Rick said, “I don’t care who he is, get him off!” so I had to escort Dali down the stairs while Rick carried on with his organ solo.
That first gig with Rick was two acoustic string guitars, a bass and Rick playing a ferocious organ.
I then realized that a string bass didn’t work, so he left and I brought in drums and electric bass.
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“That first gig with Rick was two acoustic string guitars, a bass and Rick playing a ferocious organ”
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NOT MANY BANDS BRING IN SALVADORE DALI FOR AN ENCORE
I met him again later in 1976 in New York. We were staying at the St. Regis Hotel, and I was checking in late one night and was getting my key at the reception desk. I get a tap on my shoulder, and it was Salvador Dali, and he says “I like your boots”
I had these pale blue boots with pink flowers on them. I reminded him of when we met in Paris, and he gave me a bottle of wine
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“Rick Wakeman’s first gig with the Strawbs was on his honeymoon in Paris”
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SO THE BAND GETS MORE AGGRESSIVE WITH THE LIVE ALBUM (JUST A COLLECTION OF ANTIQUES AND CURIOS) WITH WAKEMAN PULLING OUT ALL THE STOPS ON “WHERE IS THIS DREAM OF YOUR YOUTH”. HE STAYS FOR THE MORE PASTORAL FROM THE WITCHWOOD AND THEN LEAVES TO JOIN THE MORE FUSIONY YES. WHAT’S THE STORY WITH THAT DEPARTURE?
What happened was that we did a show in the North of England in the Whole City Hall, sharing the bill with Yes. While we were playing, they were standing on the side, watching Rick, and they decided they wanted Rick in the band.
While we were making the Witchwood album, Rick was rehearsing with Yes at the same time. He didn’t turn up in the studio all of the time; he kept disappearing until it leaked out what he was doing.
Before the album came out, Rick had already left the band. He joined Yes, and six weeks later our album came out.
They were making Fragile at that time. They claim they made the album in those six weeks, but if you look at the timelines at the back of the albums you can work it out. It’s impossible for them to have recorded it after our album came out. It’s very interesting.
WITH BLUE WEAVER REPLACING WAKEMAN, ALONG WITH HUDSON AND FORD, THE BAND GETS REALLY AGGRESSIVE WITH GRAVE NEW WORLD AND BURSTING AT THE SEAMS
Nothing we’ve ever done has been intentional, like “Now we’re going be more powerful or more rock.” It just evolves. Every record we make is a natural evolution, with who’s in the band at the time, and the frame of mind of the band at the time. We never sit down and say “We’re going to be a prog rock band this week, and next week we’ll be a pop band, and then an ambient band”. We just evolve album by album.
Whosever in the band brings a new feeling to it.
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“Nothing we’ve ever done has been intentional, like “Now we’re going be more powerful or more rock.” It just evolves”
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Blue Weaver came from a pop band background with hit singles, called Amen Corner. They’d do covers of American hit singles like “Bend Me, Shake Me” and were a soul band review. They had everything, all these steps, worked out. Before their first gig they rehearsed the show together for 6 months, so when they’d come on stage they ‘d be a sensation. grave
The band broke up, and when Rick left, Blue turned up on my doorstep. He was wearing a grey leather jacket and a polka dot shirt. I can still see him standing there.
He came in, and our whole band, (Ford, Hudson, Tony and myself) was there. He sat at my piano, and we asked “What do you play?” and he said, “I’ll play some Dave Brubeck”
He played “Raggedy Waltz” and we thought it was very good.
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“we asked “What do you play?” and he said, “I’ll play some Dave Brubeck””
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So we went to the pub to have a drink. We asked him “Do want a beer?” He said “Yes, please?” “Do you like Curry?” and he said, “Yes, I like eating Curry” and I said “OK, you’re in the band!”
I didn’t know if he could play our songs. We didn’t rehearse; we just said “You’re in the band”.
The first song we did was “Benedictus”, the opening track of Grave New World and the next one we worked on was “Grave New World” itself. He instinctively knew how those songs should sound.
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“So we went to the pub to have a drink. We asked him “Do want a beer?” He said “Yes, please?” “Do you like Curry?” and he said, “Yes, I like eating Curry” and I said “OK, you’re in the band!””
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HOW DID THE BAND GEL IN CONCERT, PARTICULARLY WITH WAKEMAN GONE?
The interesting thing was that when it came for us to do our first show, I knew that if we had just gone out as a straight band playing the audience would have thought “Oh, he’s not as good as Rick Wakeman; he’s not the same”.
So I devised this whole stage show with a ballet dancer, a mime artist and a background projection of film. It took away from the attention to Blue. The mime artist would come on and mime to “Queen of Dreams” and the ballet dancing coming on to “The Young Man” and film projecting to the background in “Grave New World”. It totally took the audience attention away from whether it was Blue Weaver or Rick Wakeman playing. It was a neat way of doing it.
Here’s a tidbit. The Bee Gees knew what we were doing, as Blue knew them. He introduced us to them.
About six months later, Blue was invited to go and play along with the Bee Gees. Barry asked him “What do you play?” And Blue once again played Brubeck’s “Raggedy Waltz” exactly the same! Blue told me this just a couple of months ago, and Barry said, “OK, you’re in the band!”(laughs)
ALWAYS PLAY A WINNING HAND!
SO THE MUSIC EVOLVES, BUT THE LYRIC THEMES STAY FAIRLY CONSTANT. ALL THE ALBUMS INCLUDE SONGS ABOUT ROMANCE, SPIRITUALITY, A SOCIAL STATEMENT, AND SOMETHING QUASI APOCALYPTIC. YOU HAVE DISCUSSED THE MUSICAL PART OF THE BAND, BUT WHAT IS YOUR TEMPLATE FOR THE LYRICS?
The songs always revolve around what is happening in the world around us at the times they are being written.
At the time of writing the songs for Grave New World , the IRA were at war with mainland Britain. Bombs were going off in small towns as well as Central London. Violence in the streets, so the song “Grave New World” came out of that violence.
For “The Flower and the Young Man” , I had been off to Sweden to meet up with a young lady over there. All of the songs are personal experiences.
The spirituality comes out of the fact that I love old early church music. I’m a Catholic and used to love going to the church with the smell of incense of the Latin Mass. Although I’m not a practicing Christian, I still love the sound and feel of the church atmosphere. I also love the ancient harmonies, so that’s what comes out in the songs.
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“While we were making the Witchwood album, Rick was rehearsing with Yes at the same time. He didn’t turn up in the studio all of the time; he kept disappearing until it leaked out what he was doing”
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HAS THIS PATTERN STAYED THE SAME FOR YOUR MOST RECENT ALBUM?
From our new album, “Settlement” was written when the whole lockdown came into the UK. Before, I could sit in my house right now, and look around before and see buses and lorries going by , kids going to school, and the whole world was going by my window.
When the lockdown came, and now there’s nothing. Nothing in the streets at all. Absolutely nothing. These are strange times. So I started pick up my guitar, and put it into an open D tuning and put in a lovely chord sequence and started to write “ Such are these strange times we’re living in”
I used to got out every night at seven o’clock, so clap hands for the National Health Service, as there are now only a half dozen people in the street, but it was something that was happening all over the country. The songs began to write themselves.
I was furious with what was going on with the government at the time , and still am.
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“The spirituality comes out of the fact that I love old early church music”
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The song “Settlement” is about what the charlatans of the government giving you, which is ‘crash and burn’, but I varied the lyrics a little bit because I didn’t want to be absolutely attacking the government. I wrote about what the “charlatans” are giving you, using that sort of term for them.
That song came about because of my anger of what was going on around us. There were a lot of homeless people in the streets being put into hotels for the first time in their lives, being there for the first time. They were going from being on the street to being put into five star hotels. So, the song “Judgment Day” came about from thinking about those homeless people.
That’s pretty much how the songs evolved.
“Each Manner of Man”, the spiritual song, if you like, was written while I was sitting out here in the front garden, with nothing in the street going on. It was a peaceful, sunny day, so I was just getting the feeling of that moment.
Writing the words for “Quicksilver Days”, I opened up the book of “Lamentations” (in the Bible), read through it and took some encouragement from it.
I don’t write the songs; they write themselves
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“I was furious with what was going on with the government at the time , and still am”
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YOU JUST BROUGHT UP SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR GENERATION. MUSICIANS LIKE YOURSELF, VAN MORRISON AND ERIC CLAPTON ARE BEING THE MOST VOCAL AND ADAMANT IN PROTESTING THE DRACONIAN LOCKDOWN, WHILE THE YOUNGER GENERATION SEEMS TO QUIETLY ACQUEISCE. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?
We read newspapers. We listen to the radio, and we understand how we’re being manipulated. And we are being manipulated.
We have got a very right-wing government; you could exchange Boris and Trump. He’s an egotist, a self-publicist and have no interest in anything other than themselves.
That’s been proven when in the last couple of days Boris said “All of the rules are gone. There are no rules anymore.” He’s saying you don’t need to wear a mask, but everyone is saying “but we want to wear a mask”. It’s up to the individual.
What he’s done is to say “I’ve had enough of telling you what to do, and I’m getting blamed for it. It’s now up to you; if you die, don’t blame me. It’s your own fault for not wearing a mask.” It’s a transparently deniable attitude./ edit out?
People my age can see right through it. Younger people are taken in by the populist Boris wearing the England shirt, or going running with his dog in the morning. Boris with his haircut, all ratted upright on television so that he looks the part.
It’s manipulation
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“We read newspapers. We listen to the radio, and we understand how we’re being manipulated. And we are being manipulated”
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YOU MENTIONED BEING A CATHOLIC IN ENGLAND, WHICH IS ALSO A MINORITY. GUITARIST ROBIN TROWER IS ALSO IN THE SAME UPBRINGING, WHICH IS INTERESTING. WHEN YOU GROW UP IN A “RELIGIOUS” ENVIRONMENT, THERE IS A CERTAIN MORAL COMPASS THAT YOU USE FOR REFERENCE.
Absolutely. We did some shows with Robin Trower, most memorable was a (TOWER?) theater in Philadelphia. He was phenomenal.
There is a spirituality in the way that he plays. Even when he sings, there is that element of spirituality. There is emotion in music; it’s not just a load of notes for the sake of what the correct notes are. It’s the atmosphere of the song.
When I listen to music, I don’t think, “Oh, that’s a wonderful that’s a wonderful piece of piano or guitar playing”. I don’t say “That’s a lovely voice.” I listen to the sound.
When I listened to those early Bob Dylan records, I liked the sound of the records. I didn’t listen to the words; I didn’t listen to the guitar playing.
I did sit in the front row of a small theatre in London, and I could see his blood-shot eyes. He didn’t have his glasses on and couldn’t see which harmonica he was picking up. But it was fascinating to see him do these very aggressive downstrokes on the guitar. It the most powerful performance I’ve ever seen by any person. It was the sound of his music, not the lyrics.
It was only recently that I started reading some of his words.
When I listen to Joni Mitchell’s Blue album, I’m captivated by the sound of it, not the words. Again, it was only recently that I had a look at the words, and it’s now the 50th anniversary of that album.
I loved the Mamas and the Papas because of those marvelous harmonies. It’s just glorious.
That’s why what affects me more when listening to music is that overall encompassing sound.
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“I don’t write the songs; they write themselves”
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ONE OF YOUR EALIEST SONGS HAD A QUESTION IN IT THAT ALWAYS INSPIRED ME. I’VE WANTED TO ASK YOU YOUR OWN QUESTION: HOW HAVE YOU DONE WITH “THE DREAM OF YOUR YOUTH”?
I think that by making records and keeping true to that way that I’ve made records I have done that.
This most recent album has actually gone into the prog-rock charts at #3 and went into the folk charts at #2! It went into the independent record charts at #12 and even went into the top 50 Scottish albums at #27! (chuckles) Right next to the latest entry by Neil Diamond
There we are, as a band, 50 years on from the release of our first album, going into the UK charts, where we haven’t been since the 1970s!
THIS LATEST ALBUM REALLY SURPRISED ME, AS THE BAND SOUNDS AS FRESH AS EVER.
What it is, is that the production by bringing back Blue Weaver was absolutely right. He played on six consecutive # 1 singles in the US for the Bee Gees, so he knows how to make sounds! The sounds that he got on this record make it so that you can hear every word that I sing.
It doesn’t make the record any less powerful when it needs to be. It doesn’t weaken it with the voices out front; it enhances what we do.
By the same token, in “Judgment Day”, Blue took us into a new territory. It was sung in 4/4 time but with 5/4 being the underlaying beat. You can listen to the bass line played by my South African friend and it’s in 5, but I sang it in 4 against that rhythm. I’m now working on one in 7/9, which should be even more interesting.
WHAT ABOUT IDEAS FROM THE NEW ALBUM NEW ALBUM
The song “We Are Everyone” was written literally minutes after I watched George Floyd dying on the television. I was so stunned by it, that I wrote the song almost like a new version of “We Shall Overcome”. I was writing that “we are as one, we are everyone, join together” in the same way.
THAT IS FULL CIRCLE FROM YOUR EARLY SONG “MARTIN LUTHER’S DREAM”
I played that song when we were invited to play when Coretta King came over to launch the Martin Luther King Foundation. We were on stage with her, and I sang it to her at that event. That was the first time they had ever. It was the first time they had ever seen an audience of black men stand up and raise their fists. I didn’t know what it was; maybe they didn’t like the song! But the did. I was naïve and thought “What are they doing? Don’t they like it?” But they loved it.
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“All of the songs are personal experiences”
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SO, WE’VE CIRCLED ALL THE WAY BACK TO DAVE BRUBECK!
You’re right, as Blue played that organ part of Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five” on “Judgment Day”’ he has gone the full sequence! (laughs)
WHAT PERSON, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SIT DOWN FOR AN EVENING AND PICK HIS OR HER BRAIN?
I’d always like to sit down with Joni Mitchell; I think it would be quite fascinating.
I actually met her and played with her for a radio show in England. I was her accompanying guitar player.
During a break at the BBC, I told her “It was a bugger playing with you, with those chords you’re using. How am I supposed to play all of that?” and she just laughed and said, “I know that it’s difficult what I do, but you keep on going forward.”
I gave her my then latest single “The Man Who Called Himself Jesus” , and she then said “let me show you some new tunings I worked out with David Crosby” which ended up being “Big Yellow Taxi”. I immediately went away and wrote a song around it for our first album, called “I’ll Show You Where To Sleep” .
Because of her lyrics and how she tunes the guitar, I’d love to spend some time talking to her.
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“During a break at the BBC, I told (Joni Mitchell) “It was a bugger playing with you, with those chords you’re using. How am I supposed to play all of that?” and she just laughed and said, “I know that it’s difficult what I do, but you keep on going forward.””
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CAN YOU GIVE ME THREE BOOKS THAT YOU’VE READ THAT YOU WISH EVERYONE WOULD READ?
Crickey! I wish you’d have given me some time to think that one through! (chuckles)
(find title) The Tibetan Book of the Dead. Carlos Castanedes’ first book.
Bob Garcia, who was the promotion director for A&M Records, invited me out to his bungalow out in the desert. One night we sat by the BBQ, and next to me sat this guy who was talking to me about mysticism and so on. I wrote a song around it called “Words of Wisdom”. (“The wise man came from hermit guise…”)
Years later I emailed Bob and said “who was that guy I was talking to? Was it Carlos Castenedes?” He said, “I’m not going to tell you, but it was”. He rarely came out in public, so I was fortunate to have met him.
Lastly, people should read A Book of Poetry by Dylan Thomas
WHAT’S THE BEST MUSICAL OR “LIFE” ADVICE SOMEONE HAS GIVEN YOU?
“Give up!” (laughs)
Because of the way I play the guitar,
When Rick Wakeman first joined the band, we started to go through the song “The Sad Little Girl”. That was the first one we rehearsed.
I started to play the guitar, and he said, “Hang on. Play that chord.” So I played it in a modal tuning.
He said “That’s a dischord” and he played it on the piano, and it didn’t sound like a dischord to me.
He didn’t like how his chords sounded with it, so he decided to play rippling notes over it.
As I got to know Rick, I got to watch his style of playing. I play a little basic piano. I watched what he did, and while it wasn’t advice, it was by watching his left hand that I took on board his style.
So, when I write songs on the piano, I write the left hand chords first, and put the right hand chords on top afterward. My songs are all written along the bass notes of the piano. I can’t play them; some poor old other bugger has to do that. (laughs)
That was “advice” I got from him.
IS THERE ANY MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, THAT YOU’D PAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM?
One of the greatest experiences of my life was when we first played in Los Angeles, and I went to sit at the feet, literally, of Muddy Waters at the Whiskey A Go Go. He was absolutely riveting. I would willingly pay $1,000,000 to see go and see him again.
The other one would be Leadbelly. I’ve seen clips of him, standing on the wall playing that monster 12 string guitar, and it also is riveting. Those are the people that I like.
I’ve seen Johnny Cash on stage; it wasn’t my cup of tea. I’ve seen Bob Dylan on stage with a band a couple of times, and they weren’t wonderful, but when I saw him on his own on stage it was absolutely devastating.
Rambling Jack Elliot. When I was in school, I sat at his feet and later got to know him very well. A really nice man. Some of his licks I’ve picked up for the guitar. My red guitar has a triangular sound hole because Elliott’s Gretsch guitar had one. People like that I’d pay a million to see.
I haven’t been to a show for over a year. I hope someday we’ll get back to that.
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“When I listen to music, I don’t think, “Oh, that’s a wonderful that’s a wonderful piece of piano or guitar playing”. I don’t say “That’s a lovely voice.” I listen to the sound.”
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ANY MEMORABLE SHOWS YOU RECALL FROM YOUR TRAVELS?
One of the most peculiar shows we did was in Washington DC with Dick Gregory the comedian. Can you imagine that? Him headlining over the Strawbs.
There were American diplomats sitting in the front row, listening to him and then watching us. These uptight diplomats just staring at us, it was one of the strangest shows ever.
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
“I was moved by the words that he wrote, such as on ‘Grace Darling’ or ‘Benedictus’”.
A lot of people identify with the lyrics of the songs that I write, particularly “Grace Darling”.
That’s actually based on a true story of Grace Darling herself. She was a lighthouse keeper’s daughter. At the age of 23 she woke her father up, and in a raging storm he rowed his little rowboat out and rescued 9 people from a shipwreck.
“You have been my lighthouse in every storm, and have given shelter and kept me safe and warm
And in my darkest nights you have shown your brightest lights, you are my saving grace. Darling I live you.”
It’s a neat twist on her name Grace Darling. It was one of the best lyrics I ever wrote.
But the one that sums it up best for me is “Benedictus”. Curiously, it was written when Rick Wakeman left the band.
I didn’t mind him leaving, but he didn’t phone me up, which disappointed me.
I was a bit hurt by that, so I wrote “Benedictus”. I had a book called the I Ching and went down into the country. I took my dulcimer with me, and asked the book “Shall I carry on with the band?”
Then the answer came out of the book,
“The wanderer has far to go, humble must he constant be.
Where the paths of wisdom lead, distant is the shadow of the setting sun”
That sums me up, but it is also about Rick. He doesn’t know it was written about him. It’s not that profound, but it summarizes my life.
WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
To make another hit album of course. (chuckles)
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“There is emotion in music; it’s not just a load of notes for the sake of what the correct notes are. It’s the atmosphere of the song”
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IN ALL STYLES OF ART, FADS COME AND FADS GO. AS GK CHESTERTON WISELY WROTE, “THOSE WHO FOLLOW FADS ARE CONSTANTLY CHANGING ALLEGIANCES.” DAVID COUSINS HAS STAYED FAITHFUL TO HIS MUSICAL VISION, BRINGING TOGETHER TRADITIONAL SOUNDS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE POND AND KEEPING THEM FLAVORED WITH MODERN MUSINGS AS WELL AS TIMELESS MESSAGES. IT IS A RECIPE THAT HAS WORKED FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY, AND WITH THE BEST OF CHEFS, COUSINS IS ONE THAT TRUSTS THE BASIC INGREDIENTS OF HIS MUSICAL MENU.