MARC JOHNSON: THE PULSE OF ONE’S SOUL

WHEN YOU THINK OF SOLO JAZZ ALBUMS, IT’S USUALLY IN THE FORM OF A PIANO OR GUITAR SESSION. RARE IS THE ALBUM OF A BASSIST ALL ON  HIS OWN. BUT IF ANY BASSIST HAS EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE HEARD IN THE ARIA FORMAT, IT HAS TO BE MARC JOHNSON.

JOHNSON HIT THE GROUND RUNNING IN THE JAZZ SCENE, WITH HIS EARLY YEARS DOMINATED BY HIS FAMOUS STINT WITH THE LAST TRIO OF THE LEGENDARY PIANIST BILL EVANS (WITH DRUMMER JOE LABARBERA). THERE IS A SURFEIT OF CONCERT RECORDINGS, AND ALL OF THEM ARE  ESSENTIAL, COMPETING WITH THE FAMOUST TRIO OF EVANS WITH MOTIAN AND LAFARO.

MOVING FORWARD ON  HIS OWN, JOHNSON HAS AMASSED AN IMPRESSIVE CATALOGUE OF HIS OWN, MANY TIMES WITH GUITARISTS SUCH AS JOHN SCOFIELD, JOHN ABERCROMBIE, PAT METHENY OR BILL FRISELL, AND TEAMING  UP WITH SOME OF THE BEST DRUMMERS AROUND SUCH AS JACK DEJOHNETTE, PETER ERSKINE AND  JOEY BARON.

MARRIED TO PIANIST/VOCALIST ELIANE ELIAS, HE’S RELEASED SOME GORGEOUS DUET SESSIONS WITH HIS WIFE THAT SHOWS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ASPECT OF HIS TALENTS.

BUT THIS RECENT SOLO ALBUM IS GOING TO GET YOUR ATTENTION. THE SONGS ARE MELODIC, WELL TEXTURED AND NEVER OVERSTAYING THEIR WELCOME.

WE’VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE MARC JOHNSON SPEND SOME TIME WITH US TO LET US LOOK INTO THE HEART OF A MAN THAT HAS DEDICATED HIS CAREER TO ADDING TO THE  PULSE OF JAZZ.

YOU’RE BEST KNOWN FOR YOUR TRIO AND SMALL GROUP WORK, SO WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS OF RECORDING A SOLO ALBUM? WHAT WAS ITS BIGGEST CHALLENGE?

The impetus started years ago when I was on the road with Bill Evans. Every night, we’d play “Nardis” as a set closer. The way he’d set it up was with a long piano intro, and then everyone would have an unaccompanied solo moment. It started there for me, trying to come up with a vocabulary and an idea to play on a structure and give enough information to the audience that they could still hang in with the structure or I could bend it, leave it, or come back to it. It started there.

I heard some other solo bass recordings at that time in my life in the late 70s; Dave Holland came out with a solo bass record.

The whole idea that you could make a whole album just from a double bass was fascinating to me. I don’t want to say that it was one of those “Bucket List” things, but over the years I’ve developed different kinds of ways of playing sort of meditative-type things. It eventually culminated in this kind of an album.

HOW MUCH PREPARATION DO YOU DO FOR AN ALBUM AS INTIMATE AS THIS? I MEAN, THERE’S NO ONE TO REHEARSE WITH!

I have to admit that there wasn’t a lot of forethought. For a couple of the pieces, I had an idea of the setup. I knew that I was going to play “Samurai” and would do some overdubbing just to make it work.

I knew that I wanted to play “Freedom Jazz Dance” but I didn’t know exactly what tempo, but the melody was prepared to get it in shape to record.

But, you never know in a jazz setting  how it’s going to happen. You do a couple of takes and you pick the best stuff that you think is going to work.

Some of those pieces are really improvised, in the moment, just an improvisation based on how I was feeling or a mood that was happening. Other times it was a little more programed, like the arco piece that was over some strumming, hitting all four strings, letting them decay, and then hitting them again. That was really improvised; all I did was to set up the foundation with pre-recorded strumming and then I improvised a  melody over it. There was some structure with the improvisation.

I went in knowing that I wanted to do an album worth of material, but I didn’t know how I’d release it. I didn’t have a publisher in mind at that point.

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“I’ve often thought that I could not have done the work with the Bill Evans Trio had I not come through that Woody Herman experience”

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THE ALBUM ALSO INCLUDES SOME USE OF THE BOW. WHAT MAKES YOU DECIDE WHEN TO GO THAT ROUTE?

For this record it was predetermined that I would play the melody with a bow. The reason to do it is to vary the texture and make a longer, more lyrical line.

YOU MENTIONED YOUR TENURE WITH BILL EVANS’ LAST TRIO. IT’S INTERESTING THAT BOTH YOU AND THE DRUMMER FOR THAT BAND, JOE LA BARBERA BOTH EARNED BUILT UP YOUR CHOPS WITH WOODY HERMAN’S BIG BAND (ALTHOUGH JEFF HAMILTON WAS THE DRUMMER WHEN YOU WERE THERE). WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM YOUR TIME WITH WOODY HERMAN TO PREPARE YOU FOR YOUR NEXT VENTURE WITH EVANS?

I’ve often thought that I could not have done the work with the Bill Evans Trio had I not come through that Woody Herman experience.

I was with Woody for about 10 months. What that did was to elevate my playing; the level of concentration on that gig was nothing like I had ever experienced before. Not at a university; not at a band in small group settings around Dallas where I was then living.

Nothing could have prepared me for the Bill Evans Trio like the Woody Herman experience. It was a bunch of young guys all hitting at the top of their game. It was a wonderful challenge, and if you can meet that challenge it’s a great preparatory school.

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“you never know in a jazz setting  how it’s going to happen”

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WAS THE STINT WITH EVANS OR WITH HERMAN MORE OF A “BAPTISM BY FIRE” THAT REALLY CHALLENGED YOU?

Any time that you’re entering a new situation, there’s always a moment of searching the unknown and trying to gauge what’s needed in the moment to succeed. If you’re going to call it a “baptism by fire”, that’s kind of what it is.

But, you have to have your wits about you and be confident in your abilities to meet the challenge.

There are certain fundamental things that have to happen in music. Like, in basketball, you have to know how to dribble and pass with both hands. In music you have to have a steady  pulse, and play in tune.

If you have your fundamentals, you can rely on them and go into a professional situation somewhat prepared.

Where you get thrown a curve is when they ask you to play a solo and sound competent soloing on a set of changes that are in a key which is really unfamiliar. That can be challenging, and you have to do your best. What are you going to do?

I always try to melodies that went over the bar line, horizontally through it instead of up and down through the chord.

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Any time that you’re entering a new situation, there’s always a moment of searching the unknown and trying to gauge what’s needed in the moment to succeed. If you’re going to call it a “baptism by fire”, that’s kind of what it is

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STARTING OFF WITH DRUMMERS LIKE JEFF HAMILTON AND JOE LA BARBARA SURE MUST HAVE SPOILED YOU AND SET YOU ON YOUR WAY.

To have that kind of support is unbelievable, just having something to rely on.

I have found out that the greatest players are also the most supportive. They make you sound better than you actually are! (laughs)

You rely on them and it becomes a real brotherhood at that point, because there are those moments where you have to lean on each other for one thing or another. You just trust; there’s a level of trust that you can do things and expand the “strike zone”, so to speak, and really have fun.

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“I have found out that the greatest players are also the most supportive. They make you sound better than you actually are!”

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BECAUSE OF THE DRUMMERS YOU’VE BEEN WITH , INCLUDING PAUL MOTIAN, JACK DEJOHNETTE OR PETER ERSKINE, YOU HAVE BEEN SPOILED. THEREFORE, DO YOU HAVE A PET PEEVE ABOUT DRUMMERS?

I like a drummer who doesn’t fill up all of the space with his cymbals that are ringing constantly. I like it a little drier, and having him listen.

I’m in such a privileged place; almost all of the drummers that I’ve worked with and continue to play with are at such a high level of musicianship that these issues don’t really come up too much.

WITH SUCH A WIDE VARIETY OF DRUMMERS AS THESE, DO YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY “SWITCH GEARS” WITH EACH DIFFERENT STYLE?

No, you just feel what’s going on.

There are certain people that I have enjoyed playing with more than others in terms of that.

Like, Paul Motian’s beat was singular to him, with his pulse. What he did with implied time was just so beautiful in that it would leave so much space and yet at the same time it was so rock solid. I felt so free, like I could really play my best around him.

THAT’S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FEEL FROM PHILLY JOE JONES, WHO’S THE PROTOTYPICAL HARD BOPPER

Philly Joe was at a time in his life and career where his nervous system was a little more shot. It was challenging to play with him because the tempos were climbing non-stop.

There were a few nights in that six month period where everything was under control and settled, and it was magical, just unbelievable. His brush work was  phenomenal, and the swing factor was ecstatic.

And I’ve had that feeling with so many cats. Joe LaBarbera is a beautiful swinger. He kept the Trio with Bill Evans together in another way, and was consistent night after night. We were really  building something great in that trio.

With Philly Joe, Bill had a long history together; it was another kind of brotherhood there

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“I like a drummer who doesn’t fill up all of the space with his cymbals that are ringing constantly. I like it a little drier, and having him listen”

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IT HAS BEEN 40 YEARS SINCE BILL EVANS DIED. COULD YOU TELL DURING THE LAST PART OF THE TOUR THAT THINGS WEREN’T GOING WELL, AND THAT IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE END?

Both Joe and I saw his health declining. Everyone around him knew that his health was really bad.

We were just trying to nurse him along to get him into a situation where he get his health back, but it was just too late.

DO YOU EVER GO BACK AND LISTEN TO THOSE SEMINAL TURN OUT THE STARS AND VILLAGE VANGUARD MARATHON SETS THAT YOU THREE DID?

No. I remember the experience enough.

I don’t look back too much. I have to confess I’m more about what’s going on right now and going forward

AFTER YOUR TIME WITH BILL EVANS, YOU PUT OUT YOUR  BASS DESIRES ALBUM AND WENT FROM PIANO TO TEAMING WITH GUITARS FOR AWHILE. WAS THAT A CONSCIOUS DECISION?

I wanted to get away from the identity of the piano trio. I mean, there were some wonderful pianists around who I was  playing with, but I just wanted a different association. I wanted another kind of sound.

Right about that time John Abercrombie called me, and I started rehearsing with him and Peter Erskine; another kind of music suddenly opened up.

When I had an opportunity to put a band together for a couple of live gigs in New York, I decided to try it with guitars. That’s how it happened.

YOU WENT THROUGH A REAL GUITAR PHASE WITH ABERCROMBIE, METHENY, SCOFIELD AND FRISELL

Yeah, I was really into the guitar; I loved the sound of Frisell and Scofield together. It was a beautiful meeting of musical minds. They are such different kinds of  players and they sounded so beautiful together.

DID YOU EVER THINK OF GOING ELECTRIC BASS?

For me, it was a question of comfort zone and sound. I just gravitated to the string bass, and once I joined the Bill Evans Trio I had the confidence that I could make a living solely as a string bass player and I put the electric bass away. It was really a question of musical affinity.

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“Yeah, I was really into the guitar; I loved the sound of Frisell and Scofield together. It was a beautiful meeting of musical minds”

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SPEAKING OF DYNAMICS, YOU RETURNED TO PLAYING WITH THE PIANO WITH YOUR WIFE.

Eliane (Elias) and I started working with me as a member of her trio starting back in 1989-90. We came with the same affinities, loving the same pianists.

She’s a beautiful pianist; she understands harmony and melody and we have the same sensibilities for ****music. It’s been a beautiful musical relationship that blossomed into a personal relationship.

She is incredibly versatile; she can go anywhere from classical to jazz to R&B, and there’s all the Brazilian stuff. Her rhythm is so strong and solid. She’s quite unique in the jazz world for what she can do with such authority.

For me, it’s the greatest position to be in; I can play all of the kind of music that at a level that I like  playing on, and I don’t have to work on being a leader! (laughs)

THIS BRINGS UP A DIFFERENT TOPIC, AS YOU HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE-

DO YOU FEEL ELIANE ELIAS IS NOT BETTER KNOWN OR APPRECIATED BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE, OR NOT SOLELY A VOCALIST (WHICH IS ITS OWN SEXISM)?

I guess that is a fault of the media, somewhat.

On another level, I have to say that we do have enough work and we have a great audience and fan base that keeps expanding.

Whatever journey that we’re on is right for us .

I’ve always believed that music seeks its own level. Not everyone is ready to hear the level of that depth, and can appreciate everything that she can do. But, when people do come, they have a great time and spread the word.

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“I’ve always believed that music seeks its own level. Not everyone is ready to hear the level of that depth”

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YOU ALSO HAVE HAD A BUILT IN PARTNER WITH WHICH TO PRACTICE DURING THIS LOCKDOWN!

Everybody is pivoting in a different way, and we’ve had our projects to do that are “extra musical”. We’ve been really busy; we became grandparents during this pandemic. Our lives are totally fulfilled, just in another way.

WHAT MUSICIAN, LIVING OR DEAD, WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE?

There are so many. I guess someone I never saw.

I would love to have seen Miles Davis’ Quintet from the 60s, with Wayne (Shorter), Herbie (Hancock), Tony (Williams) and Ron (Carter). I know that you can see them on video, but to see them live would be really cool.

WHO WOULD YOU LIKE HAVE OVER FOR AN EVENING AND JUST PICK THEIR BRAIN?

Colin Wilson. I read a bunch of his books years ago and have always been fascinated with his mind and his approach to thinking about things.

He derived a lot of his thought from different literature. That’s where I would go.

WHAT BOOKS HAVE YOU READ THAT YOU WISH EVERYONE WOULD READ?

Colin Wilson’s The Outsider. Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search For Meaning

I like Science Fiction, so I think everyone would have fun reading Philip Jose Farmer’s To Your Scattered Bodies Go

WHAT IS THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE HAS GIVEN YOU?

From Bill Evans.

I was with Paul Motian some years ago in Munich, and we were in a hotel lobby listening ***to a piano player who sounded kind of like Bill. Paul said, “You know, back in the mid 50s, there was nobody that sounded like Bill (Evans). Now, you can go into any piano bar in any hotel in the world and hear his influence!” (laughs)

So, I was interested as to whether Bill understood his impact. We were standing, waiting for a bus or train one day, and I casually asked him “Do you have any idea of your place in pantheon of this music? It’s incredible the contribution that you’ve made?”, and he looked at me and he said, “Naw. ***Not really. Every man’s life is a story”

To me, that was like a summary of who we are.

DID YOU HAVE ANY RELIGIOUS OR PHILOSOPHICAL UPBRINGING TO HELP YOU WITH THIS ATTITUDE ON LIFE?

Yes. We grew up in the church because my father was the choir director. We went regularly to church and choir rehearsal. I learned a lot of music there and I was in choir myself. We were in Methodist and Presbyterian churches and I grew up in high school quite active in youth programs through the church.

It makes a difference to have a relationship to something bigger than ourselves

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“It makes a difference to have a relationship to something bigger than ourselves”

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WHAT’S GIVING YOU THE BIGGEST JOY AT THIS STAGE OF YOUR LIFE?

My wife and granddaughter

THAT WAS THE RIGHT ANSWER

(laughs) I don’t know if it’s the right one, but that’s it!

WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT YOUR MEMORIAL/FUNERAL SERVICE?

Frankly, I don’t want one. For my grandkids, I’d like for them to hear that I loved them dearly. That’s enough.

ANY FUTURE GOALS?

I want to get back on the road. We want to make music again in front of a “live” audience. It may seem like a small thing to do, but I hope that we all get enough health and safety that we can all get back to that.

LIKE IN LIFE, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO LEAD, AND OTHERS WHO PREFER TO SUPPORT. BASSIST MARC JOHNSON EXCELS AT SERVING HIS FELLOW MUSICIANS, WIFE AND FAMILY BECAUSE HE SERVES A GREAT GOD. AS PROVEN BY HIS LATEST ALBUM, HE CAN ALSO BE OUT IN FRONT IN THE SPOT LIGHT, BUT EVEN THERE, HE IS SERVING SOMETHING GREATER THAN HIMSELF, THE SOUND OF THE SOUL OF  JAZZ

 

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