ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT NEWER VOICES ON THE TENOR AND SOPRANO SAX, ROXY COSS USES HER MUSIC TO GIVE INSPIRATION TO OTHER BY ADDRESSING LIFE AND SOCIAL ISSUES. THE TITLES OF SOME OF HER ALBUMS ( RESTLESS IDEALISM AND THE FUTURE IS FEMALE) DISPLAY A DESIRE TO LET HER MUSIC REFLECT A LIFE TRAJECTORY ALONG WITH OBSERVATIONS AND DESIRES ABOUT THE WORLD IN WHICH SHE LIVES.
HER MOST RECENT ALBUM (QUINTET) HAS SONG TITLES OF A WOMAN THAT FEELS STRONGLY ABOUT HER PLACE IN LIFE, SUCH AS “DON’T CROSS THE COSS”, “YOU’RE THERE” AND “FEMALES ARE AS STRONG AS HELL”.
BUT MS COSS ISN’T AN ANGRY PERSON; SHE’S JUST COMMITED TO FINDING TRUTH IN THIS WORLD OF NUANCE AND LACK OF TRANSCENDENT VALUES.
WHAT SHE’S DONE THROUGHOUT HER CAREER IS TO GLEAN FROM THE ARTISTS THAT SHE HAS WORKED UNDER, SUCH AS CLARK TERRY, LOUIS HAYES AND JEREMY PELT, AND HAS PASSED ON THE LESSONS TO HER STUDENTS, SUPPORTING BAND MEMBERS, AND TO US, THE LISTENING AUDIENCE.
ROXY TOOK SOME TIME OUT FROM HER COVID LOCKDOWN SCHEDULE TO SHARE HER BACKGROUND, MUSICAL WORLDVIEW AND LIFE GOALS.
ARE YOU ABLE TO STILL TEACH DURING THIS WHOLE LOCKDOWN?
I’m still teaching my classes via ZOOM. It’s going pretty well; they continue to inspire me. It’s an ensemble, so it’s a little tricky to keep them occupied and still get them the information that they should get.
WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST THINGS YOU TRY TO EMPHASIZE TO YOUR STUDENTS?
The biggest thing that they can learn at that stage is ‘how to learn’. Musicians are life-long students, and there’s no concrete information I can give them that will matter in the long run. It’s mostly gathering the skill set that you’ll need to survive and thrive as a musician. How to find inspiration, stay motivated, pay attention to detail and keep getting deeper into things. Those are the technical side of things.
I also like to encourage my students to really think about what they want to get our of their journey, and what they can contribute individually; how to have a voice, and if you have a unique and artistic voice, it’s going to be more well-informed and stronger with the more context that you have. That comes from learning as much music as you can from The Greats.
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“if you have a unique and artistic voice, it’s going to be more well-informed and stronger with the more context that you have. That comes from learning as much music as you can from The Greats”
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WHAT MOTIVATES YOU AS A PERSON AND A MUSICIAN, IN TERMS OF BOOK, TEACHER, PHILOSOPHY OR RELIGIOUS SYSTEM?
I’m actually always looking for more in all of those things.
A lot of my time and energy is spent seeking those things out. I read a lot of Psychology and “Self Help” books. I like to watch interviews of people who are successful in any field, and gather those types of tips and tricks, because that what a lot of it is about.
In terms of inspiration, I find a lot of inspiration (not right now with COVID) from listening to live music. I like to keep in touch with what my peers are doing.
There hasn’t been one religion or philosophy; it’s been more of the idea of always searching new things and finding inspiration in new places. I’ve had so many teachers and mentors who have helped me in that process and have inspired me that I’d be doing a disservice to list just one.
IF SOMEONE CAME UP TO YOU AND SAID “GIVE ME THREE BOOKS TO READ” WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?
One was recommended by a student, which is The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, which is about finding your path. It’s spiritual and very representative to me.
One book that helped form my context of politics and community as to the way this country works is Angela Davis’ Women, Race and Class. A more recent read that helped me was Essentialism (By Greg McKeown), which helped someone like me in this stage of my career. Instead of saying “yes” to everything for which I don’t have time…it helped me in deciding what I want to be doing and what are the choices that I want to be making.
OF WHO’S BRAIN WOULD YOU LIKE TO PICK, PAST OR PRESENT?
Definitely Mary Lou Williams and Nina Simone
ONE THING ABOUT YOUR CAREER IS THAT YOUR RECORDINGS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS ON A DIFFERENT LABEL. IS THAT THE NATURE OF THE BEAST THESE DAYS? 617
The first album I self-released. I then went to Origin, and then to Posi-Tone for two (Chasing the Unicorn and The Future is Female), and I then went to Outside In for this most recent Quintet.
Posi-Tone is more of an active label. Origin and Outside In are both very much an extension of the DIY model, the modern era jazz label model. You have the freedom to choose to self-produce, so I did that for those albums.
It was nice to work with Posi-Tone at that stage, because I had not worked with an active producer on my own album before, that whole model was different.
This time, I wanted to go on my own with the latest album.
WHAT ARE THE TRADE-OFFS OF DOING IT YOUR OWN?
There are definite pros and cons to every choice. There is really not a perfect method as far as I have found.
A big challenge for any musician in this age is money, because of the way everything changed with streaming.
So, going with a label who has more resources is going to be helpful. I wouldn’t have been able to release my two albums if I had not joined forces with Posi-Tone.
If you want to work with somebody…if you have a strong vision for what you want to do, you may not even need that help from a producer. Other times you may just want to play and have someone else run the session.
I feel things are shifting, and they will continue to shift, which puts more power into the musicians’ hands, but also with more responsibility. There’s good and band.
We now have access to more lists of reviewers, radio people, etc., but that’s a full time job, so if you take them on it means potentially less time on the music.
LET’S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE MUSICIANS YOU WORKED WITH IN YOUR EARLY DAYS. WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM CLARK TERRY?
His attention to detail was one of the biggest things.
I first met him when he was doing a residency at William Patterson while I was going to school there. We had a Duke Ellington ensemble, he walked in and we were playing “C Jam Blues”. We figured he’d not have much to say about “C Jam Blue”, and he sat there for an hour or two, saying “No! it’s ‘Doo-Dah’. Do It Again!”
Even these two notes had to be perfect; there was a certain way to swing them. So when I played in his big band, it was very much more about articulation, feel and how the difference between just being accurate and really playing
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“when I played in his big band, it was very much more about articulation, feel and how the difference between just being accurate and really playing”
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HOW ABOUT LOUIS HAYES?
Wow. That was my first experience playing with a drummer of that intensity. What he brought to the music in terms of energy; once I experienced that I really changed what I expected from the band and how I interacted rhythmically with the band.
RUFUS REID IS BOTH A PLAYER AND EDUCATOR. WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM HIM?
Rufus really helped me with my own compositions. I first met him at Ravinia; he was my combo instructor.
****He was one of the most patient people I’ve ever met. He introduced this idea to me of that when you’re composing, there is a question and answer in the process. I had known that earlier in terms of the phrasing of the music, but he got me really thinking about it in a bigger scale. Making sure that your composition makes sense and that you’re not randomly placing things that you want to try out.
It’s not like “here’s a cool trick I want to try out”. You have to have a reason for it being there in order to tell a story.
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“when you’re composing, there is a question and answer in the process”
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WAS WORKING WITH JEREMY PELT YOUR FIRST LONG TERM WORKING AND TOURING GIG?
Yes, in terms of recording and regularly touring in a small group. Because of that there were so many lessons.
Just being around him and watching how he handled everything. He was doing it all himself at that point, being the bandleader, greeting the venues and promoters, getting the set list together and what a successful set list looks like, how to shape a successful solo, how to do a sound check, making sure the band is getting settled, that we look nice and what that means, how can everyone be supported as individuals musically and personally yet still be a band under your own vision. The list goes on in that experience.
WHO HAS GIVEN YOU THE BEST ADVICE AS FAR AS MUSIC OR CAREER?
I wouldn’t say that there is “the best” because what you need always changes and there have been many people who have helped with that.
YOU ARE IN THE WOMEN’S BAND DIVA, AND YOU HAVE YOUR OWN ORGANIZATION OF WOMEN IN JAZZ. IS LABELING MUSIC DUE TO ONE’S SEX ULTIMATELY SELF-LIMITING AND P UTTING IT INTO A GENRE?
No, not when the women are also participating in things with men.
If you are a man, and you are only performing with men, are you self-limiting? Yes! 1525
If you are a woman, and you are only performing with women, is that self-limiting? Yes!
We don’t ask this question of men who play in bands with only men. So, until there is about 50/50 in our experiences I think that there is a lot of value for women having spaces in which they are with other women.
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“Find inspiration, stay motivated, pay attention to detail and keep getting deeper into things. Those are the technical side of things.”
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BUT THERE ARE NO ORGANIZATIONS CALLED “MEN IN JAZZ”, SO THAT IS WHY I WAS ASKING ABOUT THE TERM “WOMEN IN JAZZ”
Because women are under-represented. If you look through any festival guide lineup, you’re going to find, you’re going to find many, many bands that are only male. So, until that balance is there, a space is needed where they can be around other women and figure out why they are under-represented.
DO YOU HAVE A HYPOTHESIS AS TO THE REASON THEY ARE UNDER-REPRESENTED?
Yes, but that would be man hours of discussion (laughs)
DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS AN UNDERLYING SEXISM ON HOW WOMEN CAN PLAY?
Yes, but not just among men; women as well. Everybody has been socialized in gender roles that have been extended into music.
The arts in general, and jazz in particular, has a history of gender expectations and roles. Many of our elders were misogynistic, and that has been passed down-not just the music, but the culture, because jazz is a social music. This has been hard to get our of our community.
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“Everybody has been socialized in gender roles that have been extended into music.
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GIVE ME A COUPLE MIS-PERCEPTIONS OF WOMEN IN THE JAZZ REALM
I’ll give you examples of things people say to me…
One would be, “I didn’t know that women could have that much air”
Another comparison would be “You’re the best female saxophonist I’ve ever heard”
IS THERE SOMETHING SPECIFIC THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO CONVEY IN YOUR ORGANIZATION “WOMEN IN JAZZ” REGARDING PLAYING IN GENERAL, OR FOR NETWORKING?
For the Women in Jazz organization, we have three basic areas of concentration.
- Empowerment of the individual, which includes education
- Community building
- Activism on the scene, which is trying to change the scene
All three of those are in support of our mission statement which is to try to help level the playing field in jazz so that women and non-binary people have an equal opportunity to participate in and contribute to jazz into an improved and more diversely successful and rich art form.
All of the projects and things that we do are in line with our mission and those three things. We may do meetings where people come together to help the network. We might distribute information if, for instance, someone is looking for a female drummer and supply of list of members who they can call.
We also have a mentorship program where we’re trying to help the next generation and give resources and education.
THE THING THAT IS SO IRONIC ABOUT THIS IS THAT JAZZ IS ESSENTIALLY AUDIO. THERE ARE FAMOUS “BLINDFOLD” TESTS THAT THE LISTENERS COULDN’T TELL IF THE MUSICIAN WAS FEMALE OR MALE, OR BLACK OR WHITE
That is the idea, but unfortunately in this age we see things before we hear them. We have videos, we have album covers, and photos are always included in an article.
THREE OF YOUR ALBUM TITLES ARE INTRIGUING, RESTLESS IDEALISM, CHASING THE UNICORN, AND THE FUTURE IS FEMALE . ARE THEY A REFLECTION OF YOUR WORLDVIEW?
Definitely. All of my albums have themes, and they are mostly related to their compositional content. They are all reflective of whatever I am processing in my everyday personal life, which as a musician includes being a woman in jazz.
All of my albums, including the first one, have original tunes that are about these themes in my life. During the time I wrote the tunes for Restless Idealism I was a new professional on the scene and thinking about how to survive, how to get gigs and find my own path.
Chasing the Unicorn was about coming into my power as an artist, and trusting that I do have something to say; not trying to create an art that somebody else thinks is right or good.
The Future is Female is definitely about my considering the context within the community of women and what that means, not only in jazz but in our country when the presidential election happened.
I saw a lot of things happen on the national stage that I experience every day as a woman in jazz. That time for me was reflected in the music.
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“I saw a lot of things happen on the national stage that I experience every day as a woman in jazz. That time for me was reflected in the music”
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YOU ALSO MADE A WISE DECISION IN PUTTING THE MESSAGES IN THE TITLES, AND NOT IN LYRICS THAT GET EASILY ANACHRONISTIC AND OUT DATED. YOU LET THE MUSIC SPEAK FOR ITSELF
Thanks.
SPEAKING OF DATED, YOUR SAXOPHONE SOUND IS NOT “CONTEMPORARY”, IT IS MORE TIMELESS. WAS THAT A CONSCIOUS DECISION IN YOUR PLAYING TO RETURN TO A MORE BREATHY SOUND OF ANOTHER ERA?
No. I’ve always had a very strong idea of the “sound” concept in my head; that idea evolves as I grow as a musician. I learn and hear more players, but I’m not trying to sound in a template, era or style. It’s more of a combination of things that I hear.
I’m always trying to hear new music and check out new people and influences, but they are coming from all different time periods; anything from Coleman Hawkins to Mark Turner, and it will obviously continue to evolve.
I don’t think about what is trendy; I’m more thinking about what feels true to myself.
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“All of my albums … are reflective of whatever I am processing in my everyday personal life, which as a musician includes being a woman in jazz”
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WHAT MUSICIAN WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE?
Many musicians! (laughs)
The one that comes immediately to mind is Coltrane.
He’s arguably the most influential on the instrument across the board. He also seemed to be very spiritual, and I think that seeing someone like that perform is something that can’t be felt just through the recording.
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“seeing someone like (Coltrane) perform is something that can’t be felt just through the recording”
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WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF BEING SELF-ISOLATED DUE TO THE COVID-19 VIRUS?
Ask me in another month! (laughs)
I’m not sure that I’m processing them all yet, but I really like that it has slowed me down.
There is a lot of self-created anxiety out of this “busy-ness” ethic that has become so popular. I’m really enjoying slowing down and letting myself not work as much.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY ABOUT YOU WHEN YOU’RE GONE?
I hope that I can leave people thinking differently, both musically about life and community. I hope that I can change the way that people think. In music, I hope that looks like my having my own voice as something unique and saying something that hasn’t been said before.
In terms of community, I hope that we can get a little more understanding of each other, and that things can equalize a little bit more.
WHAT GIVES YOU JOY?
I love playing with my band!
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS?
I’m happy with my life, and I just want to continue with that; more playing with my band, touring with them, release more records, write more music, work with my students and still not try to work too hard! (laughs)
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“I hope that I can leave people thinking differently, both musically about life and community”
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IT IS A RARE COMBINATION TO FIND AN ARTIST WHO IS STILL MOTIVATED TO KEEP ON HER INITIAL PATH WHILE PASSING ON HER LESSONS TO THOSE OF THE NEXT GENERATION. LIKE THE MANY JAZZ GIANTS THAT HELPED HER ON HER MUSICAL AND PERSONAL WAY, ROXY COSS IS NOW IN THE ROLE OF BEING A SPOKESPERSON FOR A GENERATON OF WATCHING FANS. WITH AN IMPRESSIVE CATALOGUE, DESIRE TO HELP OTHERS AND INQUISITIVE SPIRIT, THE FUTURE IS GOOD FOR THIS FEMALE.