PARTULARLY IN JAZZ, IT SEEMS THAT MOST MUSICIAN’S PLAY AS IF THEY WERE BEING PAID BY THE NOTE. MOST ARTISTS FALL INTO THE TRAP OF THINKING “MORE IS BETTER” WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING A MUSICAL STATEMENT.
IN CONTRAST, TRUMPETER RON MILES HAS EMPHASIZED SOUND AND EXPRESSION OVER NUMBER OF EIGHT NOTES. THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER, HE HAS FOUND A KINDRED SPIRIT IN GUITARIST BILL FRISELL, AND TOGETHER THEY HAVE RELEASED A NUMBER OF GORGEOUSLY TEXTURED ALBUMS THAT SUPPORT THE LESSON THAT “LESS IS MORE”.
HIS LAST RELEASE, I AM A MAN, AND HIS MOST RECENT RAINBOW SIGN, HAVE MUCH IN COMMON AS THEY BOTH INCLUDE THE TEXTURED TONES OF FRISELL AND THE COMMUNCATIVE DRUMS OF BRIAN BLADE. THEY ALSO ARE THICKLY WOVEN TAPESTRIES THAT TELL A TALE AND SEND A MESSAGE REFLECTING MILES’ DEEP FAITH. THE SONG TITLES AND MELODIES ARE COLORFUL THREADS OF TRADITIONAL CHURCH HYMNS, BUT ALSO REFLECTIONS OF WRITINGS RANGING FROM ROGER BALDWIN TO DECLARATIONS OF MARTIN LUTHER KING.
WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH MR. MILES, WHO GAVE INSIGHT TO HOW BOTH HIS SPIRITUAL AND MUSICAL PILGRIMAGE HAVE BEEN LINKED TOGETHER TO REFLECT MUSIC AND LIFE THAT WAS TIMELESS AND ETERNAL.
IT’S INTERESTING THAT YOU PLAY SO MUCH WITH GUITARIST BILL FRISELL, AS YOU BOTH SEEM TO EMPHASIZE SOUND AND MOOD AS OPPOSED TO CHOPS. DID YOU MAKE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE?
I don’t know if that choice was made by us or someone else. But I think it’s that Bill and I both love songs. The idea is that we really share the idea of keeping the song going as long as possible.
When I first started playing with him, I’d do some solo at a show that I thought was dazzling, and I’d hear the audience clap. After Bill played, there was no clapping, and I realize that you don’t clap after the “head”, so I realized that no one thought that he was taking a solo. They thought that the song was still going, and that we were doing something different than the song.
So, it was like “Wait a minute; what if we do that? Like Thelonious Monk or Duke Ellington does. That’s one of the great things of being an apprentice under a master musician; you get to learn these things that you wouldn’t otherwise get a chance to learn.
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“one of the great things of being an apprentice under a master musician; you get to learn these things that you wouldn’t otherwise get a chance to learn”
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DID BILL DIRECTLY TEACH THAT TO YOU, OR WAS IT BY EXAMPLE?
It was just by the way that he played, and it really resonated with me.
It’s very clear when you’re in his band that it’s his band; he’s a very strong leader. But he doesn’t really say very much unless it’s absolutely necessary. He lets you figure things out. In the end, he sounds so great that if he plays while you’re playing, you’re going to sound much better than if you were by yourself anyway, because he’s so good.
TOO MANY HORN PLAYERS ARE LIKE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN THAT CAN’T STOP TALKING ABOUT HOW BEAUTIFUL THEY ARE
I try to have as much as anything a rhythm section mentality when I play. Because like you said about horn players…(drummer) Matt Wilson told me one time, “It must be interesting to be a horn player, because you’re either thinking about what you just played or what you’re about to play, whereas In the rhythm section you don’t have that luxury; you have to always be playing. You have to be present all of the time.”
The key is to take that mentality as a horn player, and even if you’re not playing all of the time, to be present , to be ‘at the ready’, to be involved all of the time. That’s the kind of approach that I take that I learned from Bill.
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“The key is …even if you’re not playing all of the time, to be present , to be ‘at the ready’, to be involved all of the time”
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IS THAT YOUR PET PEEVE ABOUT TRUMPET PLAYERS?
Not just for trumpet players, but for horn players in general not being present all the time. We don’t play all that much; it’s like 10-20% of the time, so it’s easy to emotionally check out. But, the players that I love the most, like Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis or Wayne Shorter, they are all always present. You can tell that they are always checking it out.
YOU WERE ALSO WITH MERCER ELLINGTON’S ORCHESTRA IN YOUR EARLY DAYS. WHAT DID YOU LEARN THERE?
I sure learned what great music is, getting to play that music every night .
The first gig I did with the band, the music didn’t come. I had already played a lot of that music, so I just played that first gig by just figuring out what parts I had to do, which impressed Mercer.
But, when I saw the music, when I actually played the notes that Duke Ellington had written down, I just thought “Man, I never would have thought of that. That is so amazing”. Goodness gracious
Also, being able to play in a large ensemble; I’d never played in one that good, and haven’t since. It was an amazing experience to be part of that sound.
MY DAD USED TO SAY THAT WHEN HE DIED AND WENT TO HEAVEN, THE MAJOR QUESTIONS HE HAD FOR GOD WERE 1) THE VIRGIN BIRTH 2) THE TRINITY 3) JESUS BEING MAN AND GOD 4) THE EXISTENC OF EVIL AND 5) HOW DUKE ELLINGTON GOT HIS SOUND. “THEY ARE ALL MYSTERIES YOU CAN’T HUMANLY EXPLAIN”
(laughs) Well, he knows now. I have those exact same questions!
That’s actually what I love about this music so much. By being a person of faith you get used to mystery as being “ok”. That’s just fine.
So, to play music and not always know, that’s ok too. It will all work out.
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“That’s actually what I love about this music so much. By being a person of faith you get used to mystery as being “ok”. That’s just fine”
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WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING THAT SAX PLAYER FRED HESS TAUGHT YOU?
(chokes up) More than anything, he gave me the faith that I could actually be really good. He was someone who came being with Roscoe (Mitchell). He came to Colorado when I was 19, and he let me play in that band with people who were much older than I, and really believed in me. He said, “Kid, you can really do this; you’re the one who can really pull this off”.
We’d listen to records. I didn’t know how to drive so it would take hours to ride a bike or take a bus over to his house in Boulder, and then we’d listen to Sonny Rollins records for a couple of hours before taking the bus home.
He would tell my that “you always play”, no matter what. We actually played a couple of times where absolutely no one came. Literally, no one showed up. He played, and we played the same way as if it were a packed house.
The elders, the people who have passed on like Fred are in the audience every time. There are people in the audience that we can see, and others that we can’t, so if we’re there we’re gonna do it.
YOU ARE NOW A TEACHER AT THE METROPOLITAN STATE UNIVERSITY IN DENVER. WHAT IS THE MAJOR THING YOU EMPHASIZE TO YOUR STUDENTS?
You have a lot of musicians, trumpet players, who come through like Nate Wooley or Kirk Knuffe and I do what Fred did for me; show them and believe in them that they can do this. Especially those that play the “weird” music, that’s what they need.
There are some kids that are just made for college; they work the way college works. Others don’t quite fit into the ‘regular’ way, so you have to just say, “You’re all right. Just do your thing”. (laughs)
I also show them that to be good requires a lot of work, and that they are part of a great tradition. From Mary Lou Williams to Ornette Coleman. All of the masters that we check out worked really hard, so if you want to be a part of it then let’s get down to work. I’ll be there working with them, and they’ve certainly seen me fail every day. I have trouble with a VHS machine, and they don’t even remember what one is!
YOUR LAST ALBUM (I AM A MAN) AND YOUR LATEST ONE (RAINBOW SIGN) BOTH ADDRESS SOCIAL AND PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUES. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THAT?
I think that every time you write some new music, particularly for a new album, it’s some kind of an emotional place that I haven’t dealt with before, or otherwise there’s no real reason to do it again. I can’t really generate music without that, so these last albums have coincided with my being a parent of kids who were 20 and 15 when the last record came out, and now 23 and 18 with this new one.
Dealing with the youth and culture of the time, and being reflective as a parent, and wanting a better life for my kids, as my parents did for me.
So a lot of the music just deals with where I am in the world around me, which brought me to emphasize this in this way.
Some of the other records dealt with things that were a bit more internal because I wasn’t so consumed with dealing with the lives of my children and family in the same way that I am now, as they are entering adulthood. I think that’s it.
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“I think that every time you write some new music, particularly for a new album, it’s some kind of an emotional place that I haven’t dealt with before, or otherwise there’s no real reason to do it again”
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WAS THE I AM A MAN ALBUM MORE OF A POLITICAL STATEMENT, AS OPPOSED WITH THIS LATEST THAT INCLUDES HYMNS, BIBLE STORIES AND REFLECTIONS ON JAMES BALDWIN?
When I did I Am A Man, I was probably more in this discernment process of whether I should enter the priesthood. A lot of it just dealt with intense study of the Bible. I was certainly familiar with the Bible, but not in the way that I had been in the years leading up to that record. A lot of it was that.
2018 coincided with 50 years of Dr. King’s passing and the (sanitation workers) strike that led to the “I Am A Man Sign” in Memphis, so there was a bit of that as well.
For this latest record, more than anything, all of the songs were written when my dad transitioned 1335 from cancer. All were written during that time. They dealt with us just talking about the lessons that I learned from him, from conversations that we had. Those kind of emotional things were really what led to those records, without a lot of forethought.
You seem to be onto a certain thing, and then you realize “OK, that’s the link”.
I WAS INTRIGUED THAT YOU HAD MATERIAL FROM JAMES BALDWIN, AS HE STARTED HIS LIFE IN THE FAITH, BUT EVENTUALLY ABANDONED IT AND BECAME QUITE CRITICAL OF CHRISTIANITY.
I think that during this time, I see why people get discouraged; it’s so daunting.
I look it as a chance for us to show, for the people of faith, that this is what we really believe; we’re not just saying it and that it sounds good. Either we show it or we don’t.
We say we’re for equality, for empathy and for this and that, “but in the end I just want I just want to be all right financially.” Well, OK. Cool; let’s just go ahead and say that. Or, are we about more than that?
I believe in those tenants so deeply. I’m not going to be swayed, but I can understand when people get discouraged. Baldwin fought the fight in a different way, and he was incredibly impactful, but my faith is not going to be assuaged.
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“We say we’re for equality, for empathy and for this and that, “but in the end I just want I just want to be all right financially.” Well, OK. Cool; let’s just go ahead and say that. Or, are we about more than that?”
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IT’S SIMILAR TO FREDERICK DOUGLAS IN HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY, WHERE HE TRIES TO FIGHT AGAINS THE RINGING OF THE CHURCH BELL WITH THE CLANGING OF THE BELL FOR THE SLAVES TO BE TRADED.
HAVE YOU EVER HAD A CRISIS OF FAITH?
Oh my gosh-many over the course of time. But I can say “not a fatal crisis”. (laughs)
Even growing up in the Catholic church, and questioning “we say all these things, but we won’t let women become priests, but we’ll sit silently by while children are abused?” What is going on here?
The underlying faith was not what this was about.
You mentioned Frederick Douglass. Joshua Redman told me just a few weeks back that he was reading the same book! I guess you two are telling me that this is the time. He said, “Hey, man, I’m just re-reading this” so I gotta get back and do it again and get some new insights from it.
YOU’RE A READER, SO TELL ME 3-5 BOOKS EVERYONE SHOULD READ.
I’m going to look over at my stack right now…
My most recent is A New History of Early Christianity by Charles Freeman, who I love. I’m reading right now The Music of Black Americans by Eileen Southern, and am also reading Up From Slavery by Booker T Washington.
My first lecture at college is on Black Minstrels, and I hate giving that lecture. But, I get in there and realize how important it is to immediately speak about race, and race that is nuanced in order to get people a chance to be informed.
So many mistakes that young people make is because they are historically uninformed. They’ll say “This isn’t so bad”, but they don’t understand why it’s so bad. And also with music, “oh, that’s how someone else would play that”
Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates, Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander by Thomas Merton, Full Dissidence: Notes From AN Uneven Playing Field by Howard Gryant, Paul Was Not A Christian by Pamela Eisenbaum. That might be more useful than the biggies like Ellison, Baldwin, Douglas, Southern and Washington.
Have you read WEB Dubois’ The Comet? So many of the Afro-futurists cite that one; It is wild.
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“So many mistakes that young people make is because they are historically uninformed”
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ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT KNOWING HISTORY AND READING THE BIBLE IS THAT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN INJUSTICE AND BATTLES TO FIGHT. YOU SOON LEARN THAT “THE PROBLEM ISN’T SKIN; THE PROBLEM IS SIN”
I don’t have to look at the government or someone else to see a problem; I just have to look in the mirror every day in my home and see enough to deal with.
YOUR ALBUM ALSO HAS A LOT OF RURAL BLUES. WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM IN YOUR LIFE?
Otis Taylor is my man! He is an institution around here. I’ve played with him, so has Jason (Moran); we’re both on his records together.
To me, the blues is always triumph over adversity. The thing for me, as a musical thing, those older songs are rarely in a specific meter. They change meters all the time, and when you hear those old blues songs before it gets codified, the lyrics dictate the meter.
So, if you need five beats in one measure, you get five beats; if you need seven or four, it’s just whatever it is, and then there’s a 2/4 part right there.
I write those songs with no bar lines to start; I just write them, and then I’ll go back and figure out “well, I guess there are seven beats there”, and then we have to learn how to play it, which is hard. (laughs)
That idea of the lyric of the song dictating everything that happens. It’s not an intellectual exercise; it’s aural.
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“I don’t have to look at the government or someone else to see a problem; I just have to look in the mirror every day in my home and see enough to deal with”
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HOW ABOUT YOUR TIME WITH GINGER BAKER? WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?
I’m looking at his picture right now.
He had done those records with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden (in ’94), and the first gig I did with Bill, he had not spoken to Ginger since they had done that record. By then, Ginger had moved to Colorado. I just started playing with Bill at a gig, and there was this dusty guy standing in the corner. I asked “Is that Ginger Baker?!?”
It was! He was just standing there. He comes up and says, “Hey, I love your playing”. He loves to play polo, so would I be interested in playing with him at some polo matches. I said “Sure”.
I remember Hunter Thompson being at the first one. We just started playing a bunch. He then had this record for Atlantic, and Atlantic is like trying to have Ginger be like Art Blakey or Max Roach, but Ginger is just Ginger.
He said, “We recording a bunch of original music, and we’re not even going to do any alternative takes; we’re just going to give them a record.” There was no chance to go back to it and change it. He was just great on it.
My favorite playing with him on that record was on the ballads, where he’s on the brushes. That was the thing I’m sure those guys at Atlantic didn’t think he could do.
It’s one of those things when you’re recording it, and I’m thinking to myself “Please don’t mess this up” as it was “live” to a two track, and he was playing so beautifully. I was so relieved when we made it to the end.
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“To me, the blues is always triumph over adversity”
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WHAT WAS YOUR TOUGHEST GIG OR RECORDING?
I was really sick for awhile, and for the trio album (2012) Quiver, Bill, Brian (Blade) and (producer) Hans (Wendl) saw me in my car being very, very ill. They looked at me and said “Record’s over” and I was in the hospital for two weeks after that. That was a tough one.
Every time I play, particularly with these guys, they just play so good; it’s like a dream band of all time. I feel so blessed that they want to play this music. They are incredibly supportive; they’re just the greatest.
YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT YOUR FAITH. HOW HAS IT IMPACTED YOUR CAREER? 2644
In all ways.
First off, as we mentioned before, there’s the sense of mystery and awe that we work out of. Every time that we get on stage, that’s part of it.
Also, when I teach in my class, and I first walk in, I close my eyes and picture Jesus on every body in the class. I then open my eyes and I see their objective faces; but I also see Christ in them, and I then start to play. It’s the same if I play for people or with people; it’s that you have a deep love and respect for these people. They are geniuses in some way, so let’s go ahead and work from that place.
MUSIC IS SUCH A SPIRITUAL THING. DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF YOU’RE PLAYING WITH SOMEONE OF THE SAME FAITH, SUCH AS BRIAN BLADE, AS OPPOSED TO SOMEONE NOT OF YOUR PARTICULAR BELIEFS?
There are some people who are well-versed in their faith, like Brian, But I believe that there just has to be some kind of a basic faith, and a basic love of their fellow man. That has to be there.
I feel that this is one of the reasons about Bill, Brian and I playing so well together is that you’re always part of the group; you’re always trying to find ways to lift each other up and be a participant and not dominate. I look at myself as being a collaborator more than a soloist. I’m just part of the sound.
That’s one of the great things about people of faith: we believe we’re part of a larger community.
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“That’s one of the great things about people of faith: we believe we’re part of a larger community.”
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WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
I love music. I love music so much; it’s given me everything that I have, outside of my biological family. I met my wife through music.
I don’t go to parties and socialize. My friends are through music. I can’t wait to get up in the morning and listen to something and be inspired by it. I’m blessed to be able to do this for this long. I’m so happy to be a part of it.
DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE “RELIGIOUS” MUSIC?
I’m deep into Mavis Staples. She’s my favorite living singer. Anything The Staples Singers or Mavis has ever done I love.
WHAT IS YOUR MUSICAL “COMFORT FOOD”?
Prince.
That didn’t take much thought. He changed my life.
I wasn’t even aware of pop music when I was in high school. I was only listening to jazz and classical music. My sister had a Prince album and I thought “Ugh! What the heck is this?!?”
But when I really listened, I was all the way in to the point that in his music-when you talk about ‘religious’ music-it was all there. The struggle, the glory, it was all there in his best music. He’s my musical comfort food.
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“I look at myself as being a collaborator more than a soloist. I’m just part of the sound”
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WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY WHEN THEY PUT YOU IN THE PINE BOX?
I don’t know how it will be said, but I hope that people will feel that I made a positive contribution to my community. That’s what we all hope to do.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF DURING THIS LOCKDOWN?
I’ve been practicing a ton, going back and fixing things in my trumpet playing that I never fixed, because I always had to play. It’s like “Now there’s not reason to take a month and get it all figured out”.
Not too much else, as I’m a pretty solitary guy.
WHAT FUTURE GOALS DO YOU HAVE?
To find out a way to not talk so much to say the same words, not just in talking, but in playing. Learn to get to the essence.
Thelonious Monk figured it out early on; I’ve got a little more to go! (laughs)
IN THIS PRESENT SEASON WHERE SO MANY PEOPLE SEEM ANGRY AND DISCORDANT WITH THE GOINGS ON OF SOCIETY, WHERE EACH OF US FEEL LIKE WE’RE OUT OF CONTROL OF OUR CIRCUMSTANCES, RON MILES USES HIS MUSIC AND WORLD VIEW TO REMIND US TO KEEP ALL OF OUR TRIALS IN AN ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE.
SINCE THE DAYS OF BUNYAN’S PILGRIM’S PROGRESS, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DRAWN TO FOLLOWING THE JOURNEY OF SOJOURNERS WALKING TOWARDS ETERNITY. MILES’ PATH IS ONE WORTH ADMIRING, AS WELL AS EMULATING, AS HE SEEMS, AS THE CLASSIC ALBUM STATES, MILES AHEAD.