DURING THIS TIME OF A NATION-WIDE LOCKDOWN, AND NOT BEING ABLE TO GO TO A VENUE AND SEE JAZZ PERFORMED “LIVE”, PIANIST GERALD CLAYTON GIVES US THE NEXT BEST THING-A RECORDING OF HIS BAND PERFORMING AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD, COLLECTED OVER A WEEK’S STAND IN APRIL 2019. JUST BEFORE THE SHUTDOWN OCCURRED, AND EVENINGS LIKE THIS REMOVED FROM US FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. .
TAKING IN THE SOUNDS OF THE TEAM OF CLAYTON WITH LONGTIME FRIENDS AND TEAMMATES MARCUS GILMORE (DRUMS), WALTER SMITH III (TENOR SAX), JOE SANDERS (BASS) AND LOGAN RICHARDSON (ALTO SAX), THE MIND IS FILLED WITH CONFLICTING THOUGHTS, SUCH AS “WHEN CAN I EVER SEE AND WITNESS MUSIC LIKE THIS AGAIN?” AND “ISN’T THE SPONTANEITY OF A LIVE GIG JUST A WONDER TO BEHOLD AND TAKE IT?”
BEFORE BEING RELEASED INTO THE WORLD TO BECOME A NATIONAL FIGURE, GERALD CLAYTON HAD BEEN A FIXTURE IN LA’S JAZZ SCENE. HE HAS BEEN EQUALLY ADEPT WITH VETERAN ARTISTS FROM THE PREVIOUS GENERATION, WITHIN HIS OWN AGE BRACKET, OR EVEN NOW SERVING AS AN INSPIRATION TO THE COLLECTION OF MUSIC STUDENTS,AS I CAUGHT HIM GIVING AN IMPROMPTU LESSON/Q & A TO A ROOM FILLED WITH STUDENTS BEFORE HIS EVENING’S PERFORMANCE AT THE MOSS THEATRE. IN THE CITY OF ANGELS, HE’S BEEN SEEN SOMETIMES WITH HIS FATHER’S CLAYTON-HAMILTON ORCHESTRA, OTHER TIMES A SIDEMAN FOR VOCALISTS LIKE DIANA KRALL, DIANNE REEVES OR ROBERTA GAMBARINI, PLAYING IN CLUBS WITH HIS OWN TRIO AS WELL AS WITH LONGTIME FRIENDS FROM HIS OWN GENERATION AMBROSE AKINMUSIRE, KENDRICK SCOTT.
CLAYTON GOT MUCH ATTENTION FROM HIS TOURS WITH THE LEGENDARY CHARLES LLOYD, IMPRESSING THE ICON SO MUCH THAT THE TWO DID A SERIES OF DUETS THAT CAN ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS INSPIRATIONAL.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH CLAYTON, WHO GAVE SOME RICH INSIGHTS TO THE ART OF JAZZ, AS WELL AS THE ART OF LIFE.
WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF WITH THIS COVID LOCKDOWN?
I’ve learned how much I really appreciate the community that I’m a part of, and how much I miss being able to go out and see music, be inspired and pushed by my fellow musicians.
In other ways, it’s just verifying what I’ve already known about myself. Being a musician in some ways, the lifestyle itself trains us for hunkering down and being our own task masters, going long stints away from your loved ones. Things like that; in some ways it feels like an extension of what I’m already been used to in that I’m judging my own productivity, or getting after whatever aspirations that I have. I’ve had an up and down relationship with myself in that regard for many years already. (chuckles)
I’m managing to stay somewhat busy during this time, and am already dreaming about other things that I’d like to do when we get a chance to all come out to the playground together.
IN REGARDS TO THIS RECENT ALBUM, RECORDED AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD, ISN’T IT AMAZING THAT YOU HAVE A “LIVE” RECORDING? WHAT’S A “LIVE CONCERT” THESE DAYS?
Yeah, we didn’t know at the time how significant it actually would be.
My reasons for doing it were to just honestly represent who I am as an artist, and before the Pandemic that was playing “live” shows in front of audiences throughout the year. Now, because of the times, it’s taken on a new significance.
***********
“I called this record ‘Happenings’ is because I do want to get the message out to people that this music is a “living” music; it is happening and is not something that you just bottle up and keep on the shelf. You have to actually be part of the room and part of the experience”
***********
WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU WERE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD?
The first time I played there was when I moved to New York in 2007. The first gig was with Lewis Nash; I did one with Christian McBride, and I then started bringing in trios and quintets, and I’ve been there 6-7 times now.
This last time, we set up the microphones and recorded it. It’s called Happenings At The Village Vanguard featuring Marcus Gilmore, Joe Sanders, Logan Richardson and Walter Smith III.
THIS ISN’T YOUR FIRST TIME WITH A TWO SAX FRONT LINE.
I’ve done a couple albums before with two saxes, like Live Forum.
I like using The Vanguard as a chance to bring in a larger group. I’ve done a number of trios there as well, ***but it’s such a special place with so much history (you can feel the ghosts in the room) that I kind of want to share that great experience with as many musicians as I can, and not hoard it for myself. I want to let it be more of a chance to let a community be part of it.
YOU HAD A SIX DAY RUN THERE. DID IT TAKE AWHILE THERE FOR THE BOUND TO SOUND HOW YOU WANTED IT TO SOUND?
I never feel that way about a band.
The best leaders I’ve had are the ones that don’t over-edit or don’t over-analyze the music , but trust the process that over time it will be what it needs to be.
There may be something specific that I’m looking for. It’s not my vision about in the music; it’s about the collective creation. When you have a gig six nights in a row, that’s part of the beauty of it-that it’s a journey from Tuesday night where one song may feel kind of fresh, and by Friday night there may be a more seasoned version of it, and on Sunday a more fatigued version of it.
I think that journey is something that I wished more people were aware of as a part of this music. When you go see someone play at the Vanguard, it’s not just seeing a show; it’s seeing one of six shows. It’s a marathon.
When I lived in New York, I would go on Tuesday, and if it was happening, I’d come back on Thursday and Friday, and even try to make the last set on Sunday.
I think part of the reason I called this record Happenings is because I do want to get the message out to people that this music is a “living” music; it is happening and is not something that you just bottle up and keep on the shelf. You have to actually be part of the room and part of the experience.
********
“When you have a gig six nights in a row, that’s part of the beauty of it-that it’s a journey from Tuesday night where one song may feel kind of fresh, and by Friday night there may be a more seasoned version of it, and on Sunday a more fatigued version of it”
********
WHEN YOU GO BACK AND LISTEN TO THE RECORDINGS OF THE CONCERTS AND DECIDE WHICH TO PUT ON THE ALBUM, ISN’T IT A BIT LIKE SOPHIE’S CHOICE WHERE YOU DETERMINE WHO WILL SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY? IT MUST BE TOUGH TO NARROW IT DOWN AND PULL THE TRIGGER, DECIDING BETWEEN THE “RELAXED” VERSION OR THE “ON FIRE” VERSION?
It’s a good question. I think it’s just that you listen to it over and over and try to find moments that rub you the right way and feel more special.
It is really hard because we recorded so much that week, and you really have to edit it down to a small fraction of the music that you created that week.
I think about which track is really special, which one you hear and right away you definitely know it’s going on the record. But I also think about the arc that I’m trying to create in the listening experience from Track One to Track Eight. It’s similar to putting together a Set List; you want to take the listener on a journey that feels like it has the right arc
*******
“when you go see someone play at the Vanguard, it’s not just seeing a show; it’s seeing one of six shows. It’s a marathon.”
*******
GIVE ME YOUR TOP TWO VILLAGE VANGUARD ALBUMS
One that comes to mind as a huge inspiration to me and one I wore out in high school and beyond was Benny Green’s Testifyin’ At The Vanguard. That’s been like the Trio Bible for me for a long time; it’s one of the more perfect records I’ve ever heard.
From a whole different direction and era I’ll point to my contemporary Ambrose Akinmusire, A Riff In Decorum. I was in the audience at The Vanguard when he played those nights.
BEING THE SON OF A FAMOUS BANDLEADER AND BASS PLAYER LIKE JOHN CLAYTON, WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES?
The “Advantage Pile” is definitely the dominant one.
I feel very lucky to have grown up around the lifestyle of the music; not just being exposed to a lot of great music, but also to the lifestyle behind the music. The love and the community-I just have this lovely memory of being a kid and seeing my father at soundchecks and rehearsals with all of these grown men and women laughing and telling jokes, hugging each other. There was just a lot of love that really was a very inspiring invitation to that life of music.
All of the wonderful resources I have in growing up with all of the other great musicians. Those are always the dominant feelings about it.
If I want to dive into any disadvantages, they are the kinds of disadvantages that maybe anyone has to deal with in terms of trying to discover themselves and figure out their own self-identity, and how much that relates to familial upbringing, or how much you need to break away from that to find some answers for yourself.
I always end up coming home, because it’s such a loving environment, and I’m very fortunate to have it.
WAS THERE ANY EPIPHANY IN TERMS OF A GIG OR MOMENT WHEN YOU FELT THAT YOU WERE YOUR OWN MAN WITH YOUR OWN IDENTITY?
No, it was just a coming of age thing, like any other kid when they become a teenager and start yearning to have their own identity and life. You go to college and you actually get the experience of leaving the house.
There might have been a similar arc in my professional life, seeing how much my experiences were familiar and connected to what I already knew and how much they were offering me a new path and journey into some other worlds and how inspired I was to go there or not. It’s not really a single moment, it was like a series of things where you try to discover yourself.
WHAT’S THE BEST ADVICE YOUR FATHER GAVE YOU?
The best advice he gave me was ‘to do it for the music and let the rest take care of itself’. That’s always been his credo, and so far it’s worked.
There’s a certain amount of patience involved with that, to feel like you don’t have to be in a rush to do anything in a music career, but just focus on serving the music the best you can.
**********
“The best advice (my father) gave me was ‘to do it for the music and let the rest take care of itself’. That’s always been his credo, and so far it’s worked”
**********
WHEN YOU’RE ON STAGE WITH HIM, DOES IT EVER HIT YOU “HEY, I’M PLAYING WITH MY DAD”?
Every time! When I look up when I play I think, “there’s my dad!”
I’VE SEEN YOU PLAY WITH CHARLES LLOYD IN A BAND SETTING AND ALSO IN A DUET SETTING. WERE EITHER ONES OF THESE “BAPTISMS BY FIRE”? HOW DO YOU ADAPT A LARGER ENSEMBLE TO THE MORE INTIMATE DUO FORMAT?
It is a baptism, although I think I would use a different element than fire, although there is fire in his expression at times.
When I think of playing with Lloyd, I think of standing on the edge of a cliff and falling backwards, holding your arms open and hoping that they turn into wings so you can catch the wind and fly. And you do; by the end of the show you have traveled a bit, and it’s one of those things that you can’t quite describe where you don’t really know where you’ve gone, but you know it was somewhere.
It’s more of a baptism of being thrown off the edge of a cliff and going into the deep end.
We did a gig in Minneapolis that was my audition gig for a couple of nights at Dakota’s, and we just went from there.
Playing duos with him is in a lot of ways the same as playing with him in a band. We’ve done a few configurations; I played with him in the Sky Trio with just piano, guitar and himself. Every single time with him you’re just opening up your ears to what’s happening at the moment and trying serve it the best you can.
There are certainly tangible challenges when you’re making music with fewer musicians on stage. Part of it that there’s a new layer of vulnerability where you’re over-exposed, so there’s a mental challenge there.
But there’s also trying to fill in the entire orchestra in a duo setting. You’re still hearing the symphony , even though they’re not there, so that has its own challenges. You’re just trying to open up your ears to playing with him and responding.
*********
“When I think of playing with Lloyd, I think of standing on the edge of a cliff and falling backwards, holding your arms open and hoping that they turn into wings so you can catch the wind and fl.-and you do”
*********
HOW DIFFERENT IS THAT FROM ACCOMPANYING A SINGER LIKE MICHAEL BUBLE’, ROBERTA GAMBARINI, DIANA KRALL OR MELISSA MORGAN?
I actually feel the same way. The process is still to just open your ears as wide as you can and serve the music. In a setting with a vocalist there are other factors that are contributing to the sound and the narrative.
For instance, with lyrics. One thing I’ve learned from Shelly Berg when he was teaching at USC was how important it was to learn the lyrics of the song that you’re playing, and not just the melody, bass notes and harmony. You need to learn what the song is about; what does the lyric say? How can you help support the art of that narrative?
That’s one of the things that I think about, but I still take it back to the initial thought of it being the exact same operation as if I were playing with an instrumentalist.
**********
“learn the lyrics of the song that you’re playing, and not just the melody, bass notes and harmony. You need to learn what the song is about; what does the lyric say?”
**********
I’VE SEEN YOU PLAY WITH SOME OF THE BEST DRUMMERS AROUND AS WELL IN BILL STEWART, DAVID GILMORE AND JEFF HAMILTON, ALL THREE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT STYLES. IS IT THE SAME APPROACH WITH THESE THREE DIVERGENT STYLES AS WELL?
It’s still the same thing; It’s approaching the situation with an openness, a flexibility and a trust in the musicians that you’re playing with, and trust in the work that you’ve already done and studied to help you form your musical decision making in the moment.
If you’re really in tune with what’s happening, your intuition takes care of the majority of what is happening. I do love the variety of all of those different musicians that I get to play with; that’s one of the more exciting parts of the job.
YOU PLAYED KEYBOARDS WITH JOHN SCOFIELD, AND YOU FIT RIGHT IN.
There I played organ and piano; a lot of it is how much you listen. If you listen to a lot of music…I always tell students that they should try to be a sponge and soak in as much music as you can. A bulk of the work is to listen, and then translate what you’re listening to into your own playing and your own understanding of how to play.
*********
“Because it is a social music, the way that people talked to one another in the 20s and 30s was different that we talk to each other now. We have a whole different dictionary to choose from when we express ourselves in 2020”
**********
YOU ALSO PLAY WITH VARIOUS GENERATIONS, BOTH THE SAME AGE, OLDER AND YOUNGER. DO YOU NOTICE ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE THREE GENERATIONS?
In some ways both yes and no. I think that the essence of the music is the same, all the way back to the roots of the music until now.
What sparked peoples’ desires to sit down at the piano and created play a song is probably the same thing that inspired people 100 years ago.
This music is a personal music, and so if you dive a layer deeper behind the note, you find out who these musicians are and the lives they lead, maybe what experiences in their lives inspired them to make that music. In the case of this music, we’re looking all the way back to the blues and what was the birth of the blues, which was slavery.
Part of the need to express our pains and sorrows is what brings us to the bandstand. It’s obviously a different pain and sorrow today, but that can still be the seed that then gives birth to the music that we play.
Considering the differences has more to do with dialect and language differences. Because it is a social music, the way that people talked to one another in the 20s and 30s was different that we talk to each other now. We have a whole different dictionary to choose from when we express ourselves in 2020. A lot of that is due to books, schools and sounds in a way that you would not put it into the same section a record store that you would normally browse. It’s not like “I’m a jazz musician, so I only listen to jazz music, and I only play that familiar language”.
That doesn’t apply today, and in fact I don’t think it actually ever applied.
The legends of the music all expressed that the didn’t believe in that. As Duke Ellington said, “There are only two kinds of music, the good kind and the other kind.” I think we just try to seek out good music and let all of that influence our expression and language, and then stay connected to that same thing that inspired you to get on that bandstand and testify the same way that they did 100 years ago.
*********
“part of the need to express our pains and sorrows is what brings us to the bandstand. It’s obviously a different pain and sorrow today, but that can still be the seed that then gives birth to the music that we play”
*********
I STARTED LISTENING TO COLEMAN HAWKINS DIFFERENTLY ONCE I READ AN ARTICLE WHERE HE TALKED ABOUT HIS LOVE OF OPERA
I think we need to be careful on how we use these words. Coleman Hawkins was an opera fan, but more importantly, Coleman Hawkins was a music fan. In the pile of good music, there’s the “Opera” section of the record store, like we were saying earlier. Let the record store be the one that puts the music in the categories; when we’re talking about the music, it’s much wider, like an ocean.
WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR WHEN YOU’RE IN THE AUDIENCE AND ARE WATCHING A PIANO PLAYER?
I listen for the same thing that I listen for on any instrument, which is whether I think the musician is giving honesty in expression. I don’t want to be taken on a ruse, that the piano player or artist who’s playing is playing what they’re hearing and singing, not playing a lot of licks that will make me say “Wow! That’s really impressive.” That’s the first rule; a sense of honesty.
If I’m listening the way a soccer player might watch a professional soccer player in a match and see some of the details of the craft, then maybe I’ll zoom in on things like his posture or how good his chops are, but the main thing I’m looking for is honesty of expression.
*********
“(I listen for) honesty in expression. I don’t want to be taken on a ruse, that the piano player or artist who’s playing is playing what they’re hearing and singing, not playing a lot of licks that will make me say “Wow! That’s really impressive.” That’s the first rule; a sense of honesty”
*********
WHO WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE, LIVING OR DEAD?
Since you’re saying living or dead, I have to go with “dead”, because there are so many legends that I never got to be in the room with and experience them in person. How amazing it would be to actually hear John Coltrane, Charlie Parker or Art Tatum in the room; it would be an amazing thing.
As for “living”, someone who I’ve got to see play in a trio context, but unfortunately never got to see in a solo performance is Keith Jarrett. I lived in New York for ten years, and got to see the trio perform in New Jersey, and it was amazing. But I missed those solo gigs in Carnegie Hall, and to this day I still go “Arggh!” I should have seen it!
WHAT THREE BOOKS DO YOU WISH EVERYONE WOULD READ?
There’s a book by a philosopher named Claudio Naranjo, called Healing Civilization. It’s been a real inspiring read. I wish everyone would read The Essential Rumi. There’s some real inspiring stuff in there. For the last one, just for the sake of it let’s just do Sonya Sanchez, a great poet, who has a great book that I love called Shake Loose My Skin.
BOTH YOU AND YOUR DAD ARE PRETTY POSITIVE PEOPLE. IS THERE ANY PHILOSOPHY, RELIGION OR TEACHING THAT HAS KEPT YOU INSPIRED AND ON TRACK?
I don’t think that I have a very interesting answer other than “love over fear”.
I love people. I was raised in a very positive household. My father as an unreal resilience towards positive-ity, and that’s always been my foundation. Growing up and seeing the uglier side of the world, as we all do as we get older, it starts to make us question our faith in positive-ity. But, I do think that it is actually the dominating energy of the world; we all have more love than hate and fear.
********
“as we get older, it starts to make us question our faith in positive-ity. But, I do think that it is actually the dominating energy of the world; we all have more love than hate and fear”
********
YOUR GENERATION SEEMS MORE RELATIONAL AND COMMUNITY ORIENTED THAN MY OLDER ONE. WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC, DO YOU FIND THE FRIENDS FIRST AND THEN THE MUSIC, OR VICE VERSA?
It’s probably both.
As far as generations are concerned, I grew up with a lot of friends outside of the music, whether it was from other interests like soccer, dancing, surfing or whatever. I have a lot of friends from my high school days and college years that I’ve met outside of music, and they are still an important part of my life.
There are other friendships and bonds that I’ve gotten, thanks to the music, that are equally deep or ***deep in a unique way. The kind of understanding you have with one another when you share these moments of magic on the bandstand is something that is really special. I’m really lucky; I’ve got a lot of different friends from a lot of different places.
********
“The kind of understanding you have with one another when you share these moments of magic on the bandstand is something that is really special. I’m really lucky; I’ve got a lot of different friends from a lot of different places”
********
I’VE SEEN YOU AND WALTER SMITH III IN A WIDE VARIETY OF SESSIONS, INCLUDING THE NEW VILLAGE VANGUARD ALBUM.
Walter is a beast. He’s on a lot of peoples’ first call list. If I’m lucky enough to get the call, it’s safe to assume that one of the cats being there will be Walter.
WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SAY AT OUR MEMORIAL SERVICE?
“He was a cool guy”
IT’S A TREAT TO HEAR AN ARTIST THAT IS ABLE TO HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE AND WISDOM GLEANED FROM A PREVIOUS GENERATION, BE ABLE TO PUREE’ THE MUSICAL WISDOM INTO CREATING HIS OWN SIGNATURE SOUND AND STYLE AND THEN BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE IT TO THE LISTENING EARS OF THE FUTURE. THE TESTAMENT FROM HIS HAPPENINGS AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD IS JUST ONE OF HIS STATEMENTS IN A CATALOG THAT IS BECOMING ONE TO CHERISH OVER THE YEARS.