“DO YOU SEE A MAN WHO IS SKILLED IN HIS WORK? HE WILL STAND BEFORE KINGS; HE WILL NOT STAND BEFORE OBSCURE MEN”
PROVERBS 22:29
IT’S A RARE OPPORTUNITY FOR ANY MUSICIAN TO BE ABLE TO PLAY IN A “SUPERGROUP.” NOT ONLY HAS BASSIST JOHN PATITUCCI BEEN IN TWO OF THE MOST IMPORTANT GROUPS LED BY CHICK COREA AND THEN BY WAYNE SHORTER, BUT HE HAS DONE IT BY PLAYING TWO DIFFERENT INSTRUMENTS, THE ELECTRIC BASS AND THE ACOUSTIC BASS RESPECTIVELY.
WHILE HIS ALBUMS AS A SIDEMAN HAVE BEEN ON THE VANGUARD OF EXPLORATION, PATITUCCI’S OWN ALBUMS, LIKE HIS MOST RECENT SOUL OF THE BASS ARE DEEPLY PERSONAL AND SPIRITUAL JOURNEYS, CREATING MUSICAL REFLECTIONS LIKE AN EARLY MORNING STAINED GLASS WINDOW. THESE ALBUMS ARE A PART OF HIS SPIRITUAL PILGRIMAGE, WHICH HE CONTINUES TO THIS VERY DAY.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CONVERSE WITH JOHN, WHO IS CURRENTLY TOURING WITH SHORTER.
YOU HAVE HAD A LONG ASSOCIATION WITH DANILO PEREZ, WHO HAS ALSO BEEN A MAJOR INFLUENCE TO ARTISTS LIKE ANTONIO SANCHEZ. WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT DANILO, AND WHY IS HE SO UNDERAPPRECIATED ON THE JAZZ SCENE?
First of all, he’s one of the greatest piano players in this music. We’re very close; he’s like my younger brother. We’ve been playing together for years.
His vast knowledge of all of the rhythms that have come from Africa and South America to make our music better is encyclopedic. He has perfect pitch and as far as his harmonies, well, we’ve been in “Wayne’s World” together for years. He’s one of the few people in the world that have been indoctrinated into that harmonic language of Wayne Shorter, which is kind of amazing when you think about it.
He’s special in so many ways. Not only is he a harmonic genius, but he’s a brilliant composer. He’s also a great teacher; he created the Global Jazz Institute in Berklee, which is very special.
YOU YOURSELF DID NOT GO TO BERKLEE. YOU WENT THE STATE SCHOOL ROUTE WITH LONG BEACH, ETC. WHAT ARE THE PLUSES AND MINUSES OF GOING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL ROUTE VERSUS SCHOOLS LIKE BERKLEE AND MANHATTAN COLLEGE?
As for me, in those days I came from a large Italian family, 5 kids, and my parents couldn’t afford that kind of education. They paid a total of $250 a year for my three years of college, and then I left and went on the road. I didn’t cost them much! (laughs)
City college for three years and books for $1000 total; that won’t get you anything these days. It was very simple then. My teacher, Chris Pahler from the Bay Area, started mentoring me and told me to study at San Francisco State under maestro Charles Siani (who was principal of the bass section of the opera) and then came down to LA and studied under Abe Luboff.
I was also playing jazz; I had played electric bass since I was ten, and started acoustic bass at fifteen.
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“If you don’t have a great time feel and a great sound, everything else won’t matter”
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YOU TEACH AT BERKLEE. WHAT’S THE BIGGEST THING YOU TRY TO EMPHASIZE TO YOUR STUDENTS?
If you don’t have a great time feel and a great sound, everything else won’t matter.
That’s the big thing. Then you have to work on your ear so you can hear the music and respond quickly. You should obviously learn to read music well.
Whether it’s electric or acoustic bass, you better have a great sound. They hear you before they hear you. In other words, no one is going to want to listen to you when they hear a sound that’s kind of “eh.”
FOR A SAXOPHONE, THE TONE IS MADE BY PRACTICING LONG TONES. WHAT’S THE ANALOG FOR A BASSIST?
It’s long tones also, but you have to learn the pizzicato bass, to cull the sound out of the instrument with the weight of the right arm, and then, press the weight well with the left hand on the neck. There’s a lot of physicality to the instrument that needs attention.
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“They hear you before they hear you. In other words, no one is going to want to listen to you when they hear a sound that’s kind of ‘eh.'”
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YOU’VE PLAYED WITH SOME OF THE GREATEST TENOR SAX PLAYERS, STAN GETZ AND MICHAEL BRECKER. WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM THOSE DAYS?
Playing with Getz; what an amazing sound! I didn’t play with him much, but his sound was unbelievable.
Brecker and I were friends. Besides his sound, his time feel was ridiculous. He was a great drummer, in fact. On my records in the 80s, Michael was on a lot of them. John Beasley was on some of those records as well.
YOUR WORK AS A SIDEMAN SEEM TO BE QUITE VARIED. YOU HAVE THIS ELECTRIC FUSION WITH CHICK COREA, THEN THIS ACOUSTIC FREE FORM QUARTET WITH WAYNE SHORTER. YET, YOUR SOLO ALBUMS ARE QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THESE TWO POLES. IS THAT A CONSCIOUS DECISION?
All of these albums are a part of me. Yes, the music is all stylistically different, but I like all kinds of things that I just felt like ‘this is another side.”
THIS LATEST ALBUM IS ALMOST COMPLETELY SOLO BASS WORK. WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND IT?
This latest album, The Soul of the Bass, originated with me hearing Dave Holland’s 1977 solo record Emerald Tears. His is completely playing the bass alone; it was amazing to me. I got to know him later, and he’s one of my favorite guys.
He was influential to a lot of us, and that record was very special. It took me 40 years to get the guts to do a record like it. (laughs)
SOME OF THE MUSIC ON YOUR ALBUM HAS A LITURGICAL SOUND TO IT
My faith is a big part of my life.
When you’re all alone like that, you have time to think about things very deeply. It’s another reality.
ARE YOU STILL ACTIVE IN YOUR CHURCH?
We worked on a church for awhile, and then we moved on to a different one where we’re taking a break from serving. We were doing so much work at the other one that we decided that we needed a little space. We go now to a non-denominational church in Connecticut; it’s great.
Both my wife and I play a little bit there. We’re stating to get more involved.
I grew up Italian , so I went to a Catholic Church, but I left because they weren’t giving me answers to my questions. I then went to a Covenant Church in Walnut Creek and played there. Real nice people, and they taught me how knowing God was a personal relationship and not just a ritual.
That was revolutionary to me in the concept of God’s grace.
I’ve been to all kinds of churches, African American Baptist, Foursquare, from very charismatic to ending up in the Presbyterian Church for awhile. I knew God was calling me there, so it was interesting for me to learn to be in a different environment. I actually learned a lot.
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“In order to be an artist you have to learn humility, because there’s always something to learn and room to grow”
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DO YOU HAVE ANY FAVORITE THEOLOGIANS THAT YOU LOVE TO READ?
I’m a big Tim Keller fan.
I love those classic guys like Spurgeon, Martin Lloyd-Jones and Jonathan Edwards. I also love CS Lewis.
AT THIS STAGE OF YOUR LIFE, WHAT DO YOU MOST APPRECIATE ABOUT YOUR CHRISTIAN FAITH?
With the world situation as it is right now, it’s more important than ever to try to walk in Jesus’ shoes because he was all about laying down His life, serving and saving the world by doing so.
There’s so much violence, selfishness, greed and lies in politics right now, and it sickens me.
Part of the reason I wrote some of the stuff for my album, like “Seeds of Change” is because I think that we need a big change. We need integrity and honesty; all the things in the God that I serve.
ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT READING THE BIBLE IS THAT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN EVIL, AND THERE’S ALWAYS AN ANSWER FOR IT, AND GOD’S ALWAYS IN CONTROL. IT HELPS KEEP YOUR PERSPECTIVE OF CURRENT PROBLEMS.
It helps, but it is particularly wild now.
But then again, we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and focus on what we have to do be better followers.
LIKE GK CHESTERTON FAMOUSLY SAID, “THE PROBLEM, SIR, IS ME”
I love reading Chesterton.
My daughter goes to church lead by Erwin McManus, called Mosaic. Strong church, and he’s written some great books, like The Way of the Warrior which is a beautiful book that I like.
WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ON MODERN CHRISTIAN WORSHIP MUSIC?
It depends on who’s writing it. There are some incredibly talented people out there. Keith Getty is pretty wonderful if you like hymn-like stuff. He’s amazing, and his material is beautiful.
What I love is African American gospel music. I’m a huge fan of Andre’ Crouch, Aretha Franklin and things like the Hawkins family.
EVERY SUNDAY I PLAY A COLLECTION OF 50S BLACK GOSPEL TO PUMP ME UP FOR CHURCH. THINGS LIKE SISTER WYNONA CARR, THE DIXIE HUMMINGBIRDS AND SISTER ROSETTA THARPE.
All of that is just amazing music. Forget about Sister Rosetta Tharpe; she was a powerhouse! She doesn’t get enough credit. Just unbelievable.
HAVE YOU WRITTEN ANY WORSHIP MUSIC?
Sure, and I’ve done a lot of arrangements when I was at the Presbyterian Church. I had lots of friends like Larry Dutton from the Emerson String Quartet with his wife Liz, and my wife would play cello, along with Richard Rood, who was one of the concertmasters of the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra.
AT THIS STAGE IN YOUR CAREER, HOW DOES YOUR FAITH AFFECT YOUR MUSIC AS WELL AS YOUR LIFE DIRECTION?
Faith is all encompassing; not only is it the inspiration that you get, but it also changes you as a person.
In order to be an artist you have to learn humility, because there’s always something to learn and room to grow.
Sharing music demands a selflessness that, if you follow Jesus Christ, is Mission #1. That’s the deal. There’s no room for pride or arrogance.
IN YOUR CAREER, YOU ARE LIKE DANIEL AND JOSEPH, SHOWING GOD’S FAVOR. HOW DO YOU REMAIN LIGHT WITHOUT BEING A “BIBLE THUMPER”?
I realized since I’ve been young that I’m on an Odyssey. 1810 How do I love people, and accept them and still hold fast to what I believe?
Chick Corea and Wayne Shorter have been so good to me. They launched my career and helped sustain it. It’s a big deal, kind of amazing and I don’t take it for granted.
YOU SEEM SPIRITUALLY BOUND AT THE HIP WITH BRIAN BLADE, ALSO A MEMBER OF SHORTER’S BAND.
That guy is another one of my brothers. There is a spiritual bond there that’s a huge gift to me from God. The cat is unbelievable.
We just did something the other day with Norah Jones on The Today Show as well as being in the studio together. He’s incredible and a special guy.
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“Sharing music demands a selflessness that, if you follow Jesus Christ, is Mission #1. That’s the deal. There’s no room for pride or arrogance”
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HOW DO YOU, PEREZ AND BLADE SPUR EACH OTHER ON SPIRITUALLY BEING IN THE SAME GROUP?
Because we’re good friends, I share things with both of them.
YOU’RE IN WAYNE SHORTER’S BAND, PLAYING SONGS WHICH CAN GET EXTREMELY ABSTRACT. HOW DOES HE PASS ON THESE ARCANE MUSICAL CONCEPTS, AND HOW DO YOU REHEARSE THEM?
Being in that band, you have to be a composer; you have to think compositionally. It’s a combination of the idea of his “Zero Gravity” that he talks about, where the listener doesn’t know when we’re improvising or playing the written music. Everything that we improvise needs to sound compositional.
That’s another reason why humility is key, because you can’t hog all of the marbles; you have to make room for each other.
And, we’ve played his music for so long that it’s very, very special.
His written out music is gorgeous; he’s a phenomenally genius composer. Having said that, I’ve spent a lot of my life with him. He’s like a second dad to me.
WHAT IS SOMETHING ABOUT WAYNE SHORTER MOST PEOPLE MAY NOT APPRECIATE?
He’s obviously a genius, but people don’t know that he’s also a great sculptor.
I was over at his house one time and saw this little sculpture, a bust of Nerfertiti. I said, “Wayne, this is amazing. Who did this?” He said, “I did it when I was 17.” I thought, “Oh, here we go!” I felt like an idiot.
Chick Corea is another amazing character. He’s also a pretty good pool player. He’s a good drummer, and he’s actually from Italy, which most people don’t realize. His ancestry is Calabrese and Siciliano.
BEING IN A FUSION BAND, IS REHEARSING WITH COREA MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WITH SHORTER?
His music is compositionally deep, like Wayne’s, and he’s also very free. We’ve played a lot of freer stuff that is really amazing.
They are both children of Miles Davis.
I feel incredibly blessed, because those Miles groups changed my life when I was a kid. For me to be part of some of that is incredible.
DOES THAT FACT THAT YOU’RE PART OF MILES DAVIS’ BATON PASSING EVER DAWN ON YOU WHEN YOU’RE ON STAGE WITH THEM?
I had met Herbie Hancock through Chick and Wayne. When we started the Quartet with Wayne, Herbie would come to our gigs whenever we played in LA, and he was very sweet.
He told us, “You guys are picking up where we left off with that band.” That’s pretty intense. These guys were our heroes.
YOU’RE NOW 60. WHAT ARE YOUR REFLECTIONS OF THIS STAGE OF YOUR LIFE?
I wish I were better than I am. There’s a lot of interesting things to think about when you stop to think about it. It’s kind of crazy that so much time has elapsed.
My daughters are grown up now; it’s kind of freaky!
LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS, “TEACH ME TO NUMBER OUR DAYS.”
Yeah, I don’t feel physically that different except for a couple of aches, I really feel blessed.
I’m still working!
I had a real funny moment one time. Pino Palladino, the great electric bass player from England, first met me in 1986. I love the way he plays.
I recently reconnected with him and saw him play with John Mayer at a big venue in Anaheim. I went to meet him before the show, and he was so nice; we hadn’t seen each other in awhile, and he joked, “Hey, man, they haven’t replaced us yet. We’re still here!” (Laughs)
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS?
My wife and I are very concerned to serve our daughters well as they go out into this world. My daughter Grace is a singer/songwriter and lives in LA. She’s active in her church. We want her to pursue her artistic skills but also to make a difference. She’s interested in justice and mercy also, and that’s great.
My other one is getting ready to go to college. She’s a wonderful girl also.
It’s a lifelong thing. We’re always going to be concerned that they are on the right road.
Fortunately, I have the greatest wife in the universe, and I’m grateful for her.
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(Herbie Hancock) told us, “You guys are picking up where we left off with that band.” That’s pretty intense. These guys were our heroes
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WHAT’S THE SECRET TO A GOOD MARRIAGE?
Trust, which is also one of the songs on the new record.
IT’S LIKE THAT BOOK YOU MENTIONED IN OUR FIRST INTERVIEW: A LONG OBEDIENCE IN THE SAME DIRECTION
WHAT BASSIST WOULD YOU PAY $1000 TO SEE?
Giovanni Bottesini! (laughs) He’s been dead for 150 years. Everyone else I’ve seen. I owe a great debt to Ron Carter and Ray Brown, but I never did see Paul Chambers, which would have been nice.
AS THIS INTERVIEW POINTS OUT, JOHN PATITUCCI’S MUSIC NOT ONLY REFLECTS THE SOUL OF THE BASS, BUT THE BASE OF HIS SOUL.