Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it
Proverbs 22:6
IT’S FASCINATING HOW THE CORE TEACHINGS OF OUR YOUTH EVENTUALLY RETURN TO US AS WE GET OLDER. AUTHOR CS LEWIS WROTE IN HIS BOOK SURPRISED BY JOY THAT HIS WHOLE ADULT LIFE WAS A SEARCH TO RETURN TO THE INNOCENT BLISS HE EXPERIENCE AS A YOUTH.
I BELIEVE THAT HAPPENS TO US IN MANY WAYS, RECENTLY EXEMPLIFIED BY THE CAREER OF DRUMMER DENNY SEIWELL.
HIS LOVE FOR JAZZ DRUMMING WAS INCULCATED BY HIS FATHER, BUT AS HE GOT OLDER, A LIFE DIRECTION TOOK HIM TO BECOME THE DRUMMER FOR ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS MUSICIANS IN THE 20TH CENTURY, PAUL McCARTNEY OF THE BEATLES.
IN THIS INTRIGUING INTERVIEW, SEIWELL TALKS ABOUT HIS CAREER WITH JAZZ ARTISTS AND HOW HE BECAME THE DRUMMER FOR McCARTNEY’S SOLO ALBUMS LIKE RAM AS WELL AS WITH THE NASCENT GROUP WINGS, AND HOW HE EVENTUALLY RETURNED TO HIS FIRST LOVE.
WE RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO SEE HIM PERFORM AT BOGIES BAR IN WESTLAKE WITH HIS TEAM OF GUITARIST JOHN CHIODINI AND ORGANIST JOE BAGG, AND THEY COMBINED JAZZED UP BEATLE TUNES WITH SIZZLING ORIGINALS WITH A REBORN JOY.
SEIWELL WAS KIND ENOUGH TO SPEND SOME TIME PUTTING HIS CAREER AND DIRECTION IN PERSPECTIVE
WHAT FIRST DREW YOU INTO JAZZ DRUMMING?
My dad was a drummer; he played with Tommy Dorsey. Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey lived in the next town over from us in Lansford, PA. Before they became big, my dad was a drummer with them and other bands in the area. I grew up listening to that kind of big band music.
Apparently, when I was 3 years old my dad used to take me to this place where he played with a big band, and I’d sit on the floor next to the drum set, so there was a direct injection there.
There was more jazz in everyday life when I grew up in those days.
Because I was in the Navy band, there were tons of musicians to hang with, so I became more aware of Coltrane, Bill Evans and all of that stuff.
The pop thing was so lame back in those days.
YOU THEN STARTED GETTING GIGS WITH THE LIKES OF ZOOT SIMS AND AL COHN
I was the drummer at the Half Note. Al and Zoot would do long stints there, and in between they’d bring in Anita O’Day, Richie Kamuca or Brew Moore. All these guys would pass through; the rhythm section was Ross Tompkins from the Tonight Show band. Just a beautiful piano player, one of the best accompanists in the world; sometimes Dave Frishberg would take his place. Then there was Russell George or Victor Sproles on bass. We played with all of these acts six nights a week, six sets a night!
It was amazing. It didn’t pay any money, but it gave us the visibility so that when the studio cats would come down to see who the new kids were playing with Zoot and Al, I’d start getting calls for recording sessions.
That’s how I met Astrud Gilberto, and we did a tour of Japan as well a month at the Rainbow Grill in New York with her and Airto on percussion.
The studio work started building up, and the first jazz album I did was with JJ Johnson and Kai Winding at Rudy Van Gelder’s studio in New Jersey.
WHAT WAS STUDIO LIFE LIKE BACK THEN?
In 1968 guitarist Joe Beck put a band together with Roger Kellaway. He flew me out to LA, and the band had a 19 year old Tom Scott and Chuck Domanico, who was one of my favorite bassists and we formed a quintet to play the local jazz clubs like Dontes and The Lighthouse.608
But during the week we’d rehearse as a rock band, called The Pleasure Principle
HOW DO YOU RISE THROUGH THE RANKS IN THE STUDIO?
I was doing some jingles and records with people like Deodato and John Denver. I slowly rose through the ranks to become one of the top ten guys doing studio work.
This was simply because the pop culture of New York at the time was moving away from swing and jazz to light rock and pop.
A guy named Russ Sevakis was a bassist and contractor. He took me to a session with Burt Bacharach and Dionne Warwick. There was a 40 piece orchestra in a small room. Gary Chester was the drummer playing with a stick and a brush, recording “Do You Know the Way to San Jose?”.
I was mesmerized by how quietly Gary was playing and his role as a studio musician, and kept that information in my mental bank.
As rock and roll became part of the culture, things started getting a little louder
I think because of my days in the Navy band, and being in Brazil playing that music the “real” way with a straight 8th note it became easy for me to play the rock and pop music.
I started getting more jobs and rose up because the older cats would “swing” the music a little too much, with too much of a leftover feel from their jazz days.
Within a year or two I was doing 5 dates a day, going from studio to studio.
YOU HAD A SEISMIC SHIFT WITH PLAYING FOR PAUL MCCARTNEY. HOW DID THAT TRANSITION TAKE PLACE?
Paul came to town and asked a “folky” friend of mine, guitarist Barry Kornfeld to provide him with a list of 10-12 top guys that are doing the best recordings; the “first call” players. I was on that list.
So, when Paul set up the audition, nobody knew it was audition. We got a call from our registry answering service, and they just told us that I had a demo for Barry Kornfeld.
I just had a cancellation, and I usually didn’t do demos but I had an open slot.
I got there, and it’s not a studio. It’s a brownstone way over on the west side, looking like It’s about to be renovated. What is this?!?
I go up to the lobby’s desk in this uninhabited building. This guy points me downstairs and there’s Paul and Linda sitting in a dirt floor-basement and a ratty set of drums from SIR Studios.
I say, “You’re Paul McCartney!” He say’s “Yeah, I know! We’re in town and going to record an album, so we’re looking at drummers. Do you mind playing for me? No guitar ore anything; just you. Play some rock and roll time for me.”
I went right into my Ringo bag, and he put me through the paces of a couple of different styles. We had a bunch of laughs; he could see my willingness to do whatever he needed. He liked my attitude about it all.
I then started hearing that all of the guys were getting called to do it, so I figured I’d never get it, as these other guys are great.
Three days later I get a call and it’s him! He said he wants me to do his album. I’m in shock at the time, and tell him to let me check my book!
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“I wasn’t a fan until I heard (the “White Album”); then I went nuts and went back to review their prior recordings and became a fan”
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THAT WAS THE RAM ALBUM. WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS JOINING IN?
I felt like this was going to be the biggest opportunity I’ll ever have in my life.
I wasn’t a huge Beatles fan. A couple of years prior to that we were having Thanksgiving dinner with Joe Beck at the house of the jazz duo Jackie and Roy. We had some vino and they put on a copy of the brand new “White” album, and I wasn’t a fan until I heard that record; then I went nuts and went back to review their prior recordings and became a fan.
Paul McCartney is probably the best known musician on the planet. If he went into any household in the world that had teenagers, they would know who he is.
It was a little daunting. Here it was the Beatles just breaking up and here’s this guy going out on a solo career. I was actually the first guy he called to make music with after formally leaving the Beatles.
We started recording, and every day he would come in with a song. There were just three of us, Paul, myself and first Dave Spinozza (who lasted about a week) and then Hugh McCracken, who I recommended due to Dave’s scheduling problems.
Every day he came in with a song, and we’d do the song that day. It was at CBS Studios on 52nd Street. Great studio. We were booked from 9-6 like “Banker’s Hours.” He’d pay us for that, but he’d show up at 10:30 or whenever he wanted.
Each day the songs kept getting better and better.
The first one was “Just Another Day”. It was complicated music; it wasn’t just basic rock and roll. Spinozza and I were looking at each other and saying “This is incredible.”
McCracken then showed up and we did “Uncle Albert” and it was all work, work, work. There was no “outside influence,” if you know what I mean. We’d have a cup of tea and music from 9-6. We’d complete a track every day.
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“I was actually the first guy he called to make music with after formally leaving the Beatles”
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WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE ABOUT PAUL AS A LEADER OR ARRANGER THAT PEOPLE MAY NOT APPRECIATE?
There was an overall brilliance that drew you into him. Having the catalogue of material that he and John Lennon wrote, and the creativity that came along with a guy like Paul McCartney in those days was just awesome.
In the studio, he really knew what he was doing. He left an open palate for me. Except for one time, he never told me what he’d like to hear.
We’d rehearse, we would find our parts and when he was happy with what we found we would record.
On “Uncle Albert” he kind of slowed me down and said “I want you to find a drum part that is not so obvious a drum part that fits along with the polka a little better.” That was the only time he told me to play something different than what I had come up with.
We had a great working relationship. He had actually hired two other drummers. He tried me, then Donald MacDonald for a week and Herb Lovelle for a week and then canceled the other guys.
THE SECOND ALBUM, WILDLIFE, GOT PANNED. WAS THERE A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE ABOUT IT?
I took a vacation. Paul asked me to come over to Scotland and just hang out after the RAM album was released, and it was doing well.
My wife and I show up in Scotland, and he tells me “I really miss my old band and want to play ‘live’ again. Do you want to form a band.” I said “Count me in!”
Hugh McCracken just got off touring with Gary Wright, so he came up to the farm. But, he couldn’t do it, and we were devastated. I later learned he wanted to spend time with his young kids. So Paul then got Denny Laine.
So at the farm it was just the four of us, and Linda was playing piano, surprise, surprise, because she couldn’t play piano!
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“Paul was trying to show the world that this was not the Beatles; it was his band, and here it is in its rawest form. Either you like it or you don’t; I appreciate that”
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DID YOU ASK YOURSELF WHAT YOU GOT YOURSELF INTO?
It was a little scary. Denny Laine was not a typical studio musician like I was; He was one of those guys who could play around you in circles. He had played with the Moody Blues, knew Paul and was a songwriter.
It was kind of strange, but I trusted Paul.
Paul had some tunes left over from RAM and some new things he had written. We just started knocking them out. We were only in Scotland for two weeks, and then went in London to record the Wildlife album at Abbey Road. We only had a brief knowledge of the songs.
When we got into the studio, five of the eight songs on that album were first takes.
Paul wanted to give the world a real honest look at a fresh new band. Nothing polished. We got the tracks down and then fooled around for the next week or two with overdubs and mixing. The tracks were done in a weekend.
Paul was trying to show the world that this was not the Beatles; it was his band, and here it is in its rawest form. Either you like it or you don’t; I appreciate that.
The record did not do well because people were still comparing it to The Beatles.
After some time we added another guitarist, Henry McCullough to help play the leads when we started touring. We then started to become a band.
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“When we got into the studio, five of the eight songs on that album were first takes”
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SO THE BAND AND PAUL WASN’T AFFECTED BY THINGS LIKE JOHN LENNON WRITING CAUSTIC SONGS ABOUT HIM
No. We knew what we were doing. We were a family, living together like an old hippie garage band. We had faith in each other. Paul was still the leader, but he wanted us to be a band, period.
THEN CAME THE RED ROSE SPEEDWAY AND THE HIT FOR THE JAMES BOND MOVIE “LIVE AND LET DIE.”
We had grown into a band by that time, and we used Apple studios but also had Glyn Johns to help produce over at Olympic studio. Paul was even open to have someone besides himself to produce us.
Johns is the best producer there is. But, there were some decisions that Paul wasn’t comfortable with, but (Johns) recorded a bunch of those tracks for the Red Rose Speedway album, and it was a magical experience. Glyn Johns got the best drum sound I ever had in my life.
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“We were a family, living together like an old hippie garage band. We had faith in each other. Paul was still the leader, but he wanted us to be a band, period”
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HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE GLYN JOHNS WITH GEORGE MARTIN?
Totally different. Glyn was an engineer/producer; Martin is a producer/producer.
With the RAM album, Paul would send the tracks over to George Martin, who would write the orchestrations for it. That’s where his brilliance came in; writing orchestrations and sweetening the tracks.
When we were rehearsing for “Live and Let Die,” Paul wrote it in almost no time at all. It was uncanny to watch him write it. We recorded it at his house on a two track, and he sent it over to Martin to come up with the orchestra for it. Before you know it he knocked out an arrangement for it.
We were up in his studio A.I.R. in London. We recorded “Live and Let Die,” in and out of the studio, live with a 40 piece orchestra, in three hours time. Complete!
These days, you don’t even get a drum sound in three hours! (laughs)
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“We recorded “Live and Let Die,” in and out of the studio, live with a 40 piece orchestra, in three hours time. Complete!
These days, you don’t even get a drum sound in three hours! (laughs)”
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YOU WERE IN THE STUDIO FOR BAND ON THE RUN, BUT YOU DIDN’T TOUR WITH THEM, DID YOU?
No. We were rehearsing Band On The Run in Scotland. He had a farm with a large barn and we used to rehearse in it. Henry was still in the band, and we rehearsed extensively for it. Somewhere in the world there is a two track recording of that five piece band playing those tunes, and it was brilliant.
I thought it was much better than the record. In fact, Paul played my drum parts for the record, whether he wanted to or not. They were just in his had from having me do all of the rehearsing for it.
I left the night before we were to leave for Lagos, Nigeria to record Band On The Run.
WHAT WAS YOUR REASON FOR LEAVING THE BAND?
It’s something I don’t like talking about. I really wish I had talked it out with Paul before.
It was financial; I wasn’t getting paid.
DID YOU EVER COMPARE NOTES WITH YOUR REPLACEMENT JOE ENGLISH?
In 1976 I was producing an album for RCA in Chicago. When they passed through Paul invited us over to the show. They were staying in a farm somewhere.
I spent some time with Joe. He blew my mind because he sang and played really well. He was a great drummer. We lost touch for awhile.
Apparently he had some difficulties with substance abuse and I heard that he found religion to help him get out of it. For many years the religion that he found would not let him play the drums anymore. They didn’t want him being around music in case it would trigger the substance abuse thing again.
I just got a call from him out of the blue. He was trying to get back into the music business and that’s the last I heard of him.
As soon as I left the band is when they all got paid (laughs)
BOTH YOU AND PAUL HOLD TO MY THEORY THAT ARTISTS HAVE A CERTAIN MUSICAL FIRST LOVE, GET SIDETRACKED BY THE ROCK AND ROLL, AND THEN RETURN TO THE REASON THEY GOT INTO MUSIC IN THE FIRST PLACE. FOR YOU, IT WAS JAZZ. FOR PAUL, IT WAS TIN PAN ALLEY SONGS.
Oh, yes; his dad really influenced him when he was growing up. All of that Cole Porter-type material; his dad played in a little jazz band, playing trumpet and piano. Jim was a wonderful fellow; we met many times when we’d pass through Liverpool.
LET’S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER ARTISTS YOU PLAYED WITH. WHAT ABOUT JAMES BROWN?
James Brown was amazing. We were recording a record for an artist he had named Hank Ballard. Everybody in the band was white; everyone in the control room was black. It was really a great band of studio aces.
We were in there just screwing around between tunes, and we get this hellacious groove going.
James comes flying out of the control room, pulls Hank out of the vocal booth and says “Hank, this is too good for you; this is going on my record!” He gets into the booth and he starts singing with Hank. The track was called “Funky Side of Town” so he just got out in front of this groove and made up some lyrics on the spot. We did a couple of tracks that day; he just fell in love with the band.
He said, “I like you guys, but you’ve got to remember that when you play with James Brown, I gotta hear “One chicka chicka chicka, One…”
When I heard that, I realized that’s the secret of playing with James Brown; it’s the downbeat of every measure.
The next time he came out, it was like we were his band. It was fantastic. He knows what he wants.
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“James (Brown) comes flying out of the control room, pulls Hank (Ballard) out of the vocal booth and says “Hank, this is too good for you; this is going on my record!”
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HOW ABOUT WORKING WITH CREED TAYLOR, ASTRUD GILBERTO AND STANLEY TURRENTINE?
I fell in love with Astrud Gilberto the minute I met her. She was like the Brazilian BrigItte Bardot; absolutely beautiful, stunning, funny, musical and she had an Italian husband that would have killed me if I tried anything. (laughs)
We were asked to make this record over at Rudy Van Gelder’s studio. So we went over and she used a couple of rhythm sections, one with Airto.
SO, YOU’VE RETURNED TO YOUR FIRST TRUE LOVE, JAZZ
When I moved to LA, they thought I was an English rock and roll drummer. It took me a long time to get established doing the pop stuff records.
Chuck Domanico introduced me to a lot of people. I had a trio with Victor Feldman and John Patitucci, so ****I had a chance to revisit the jazz world, and it felt so good that I told myself one day I’ll give up all of this rock and roll and play music for my heart.
In 2010 a friend of mine opened up a restaurant in Woodland Hills and said “Do you want to get some guys together for jazz on Wednesday nights?”
Each Wednesday I’d try a different combination, and finally got with John Chiodini and Joe Bagg. I was looking for a hot young organ player. I always wanted to play in an organ trio. We played together one Wednesday and I thought “Oh…this is magic!”
I had the guys come over to the house to my little home studio, and we recorded Reckless Abandon
in 3-4 sittings of three hours each. Before you knew it, we had a whole album, had it engineered and I put it out myself. I’m very proud of it.
We’ve kept playing around the LA area, which is hard to do.
LOS ANGELES IS A TOUGH TOWN FOR JAZZ
LA is the worst market ever to find places to play. If you play in one place, they don’t want to see you for a couple of months. There’s only a handful of places.
Also, my guys are so busy that if I were to get a call from Vitello’s or Catalina’s one of the guys would be working and I couldn’t accept the gig.
I used to play at Catalina’s when they were on Cahuenga. The pianist for the trio then was Brad Mehldau. When he first moved out to California he was in a little bit of trouble with himself. I was asked to see if I could be musically compatible and keep an eye on him. Darek Oles was the bass player and we played at Catalina’s and in Denver just to get everyone back into the swing of things.
Brad settled in and then the record companies started flying in his drummer and bass player from New York and Barcelona, Spain for every gig after that.
We never had a chance to record. I was heartbroken about that, but we’ve remained friends since. He’s one of the most talented people I’ve ever come across.
For my trio, here I am at 75 years old finally getting signed to a record label for the first time. I called in all my favors and we recorded in a great studio, and had it mixed by my friend Al Schmidt.
We had the best of the best, so the next step is to get somebody to book us. We want to get out and play the national jazz clubs as well as the Blue Note in Tokyo. All of this is in the works.
YOU’RE CAPTURING THE DREAMS OF YOUR YOUTH AT 75!
I’m working every day all day. I’m always on the phone with somebody about this trio.
SO, OUTSIDE OF YOUR GIG WITH MCCARTNEY, WHAT WILL YOU BRAG ABOUT THE MOST, YOUR RECENT BAND, MENTORING BRAD MEHLDAU, OR THAT YOU PLAYED ON THE TV SHOWS LIKE HAPPY DAYS?
You can leave Happy Days out of that. (laughs)
I’m just pleased that I’ve had a career that has touched so many bases over the years, For 15-20 years I was just playing in the orchestra for blockbuster film dates, one of 110 guys. Not many rock drummers can say they’ve done that.
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS?
This trio. It means so much to me that I want to get it out there to the public and become part of the jazz world again.
IT’S A RARE CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO RETURN TO YOUR FIRST JOY, AND DENNY SEIWELL IS TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF HIS OPPORTUNITY. EVEN IF YOU DON’T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RINGO STARR AND PETE BEST, YOU’RE GOING TO WANT TO CATCH THIS SWINGING BAND THAT PUTS THE BEAT BACK INTO THE BEATLES.