FOR MOST BASSISTS, THE GOAL IS TO LAY DOWN THE FOUNDATION FOR THE BAND. SCOTT PETITO, WHILE BEING AN IMPRESSIVE MUSICIAN, HAS USED HIS MUSICAL SKILLS FOR CREATING MUSICAL ATMOSPHERES AS A PRODUCER AND ENGINEER.
YES, HE’S HAD AN ECLECTIC PLAYING CAREER WITH CREDITS RANGING FROM JAZZ CROONER MICHAEL FRANKS TO THE ICONOCLASTIC BAND THE FUGS. BUT PETITO HAS FOUND HIS NICHE MORE COMFORTABLY IN THE STUDIO, WORKING WITH SUCH LUMINARIES AS MEMBERS OF THE BAND, BLUES ARTISTS SUCH AS LUCKY PETERSON AS WELL AS JAZZ ALL STARS INCLUDING JOHN SCOFIELD AND JACK DEJOHNETTE, BEING THE MAN IN THE BOOTH FOR LAST YEAR’S WONDEFUL ALBUM HUDSON
WHILE NOT OFTEN PUTTING OUT MATERIAL ON HIS OWN, PETITO REVEALS HIS MUSICAL COMFORT FOOD WITH A RECENT HARD SWINGING FUSION ALBUM RAINBOW GRAVITY THAT HARKENS BACK TO VINTAGE WEATHER REPORT DAYS, BOASTING OF COLLABORAING ARTISTS RANGING FROM PETER ERSKINE AND JACK DEJOHNETTE TO BOB MINTZER.
WE RECENTLY HAD A CHANCE TO CHAT WITH PETITO, AND AS WITH HIS MUSIC, HIS CONVERSATION WAS CLASSY, ERUDITE AND INSIGHTFUL
YOUR RECENT ALBUM SURPISED ME. I LOOK YOU UP AND YOU DON’T RELEASE A LOT OF MATERIAL; YOU DO MORE BEHIND THE SCENES IN THE STUDIO
That’s my main world; I’m in the studio all of the time.
That’s how I met most of the people performing on the record; through the years working in the studio with them and becoming friends through different things. It’s great
YOU WORK ON LOT OF ALBUMS WITH JACK DEJOHNETTE, MOST NOTABLY ON THE GRAMMY WINNING HUDSON ALBUM. DID YOU MAKE A CONSCIOUS DECISION TO HAVE THE STUDIO AS YOUR GOAL’S WORK, OR DID IT JUST TURN OUT THAT WAY?
A little of both. At one point when I was young I went to Berklee and when I got out I wanted to do some touring. I was in a few bands that were relatively well known that made their way around.
I then got an offer to produce a couple of albums, and I really liked it. I wouldn’t give up either, but I realized early on that I wasn’t the guy who was going to be in the van the rest of his life (laughs). I mean, I like to travel, but The Road is a tough life.
Even my friends that have been doing it for years. I see when they come back it takes awhile to recuperate and get your life back together. I get the best of both worlds; I do a bit of touring while making music in the studio, doing lots of different things.
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“I like to travel, but The Road is a tough life”
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WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO CHOOSE THE BASS?
When I was young, I started out as a guitar player, but there was a lot more of a need for bass players in terms of getting into bands. By the time I got to Berklee, it was a real good decision because there were 1500 guitar players and only about 250 bassists, so I was immediately playing with great people. The guitar players, even if they were really good, there were always three other guys that were just as good.
I still play guitar and keyboards, as I was a composition major.
ONE OF THE BANDS YOU WERE ASSOCIATED WITH WAS THE FUGS!
Technically we’re still together. I joined in 1984. Ed Sanders and Tuli Kupferberg were from the band that was popular in the ‘60s. I joined when President Ronald Reagan was doing his Star Wars endeavor, so we did an album about that. We did a lot of recording for European labels, and we did a lot of short tours there. It was fun.
It also allowed me to meet a lot of great poets like Alan Ginsberg, Gregory Corso and William Burroughs who were in their own way influenced by the jazz musicians of their day.
YOU HAVE VARIED MUSICAL ALLEGIANCES. THE FUGS WERE THE ULTIMATE ART ROCK BAND, YOU ARE THE ENGINEER FOR LOTS OF JAZZ ARTISTS, AND THEN YOU ALSO DO A LOT OF WORK WITH BLUES ARTISTS AND TRAD GROUPS LIKE LUCKY PETERSON AND MEMBERS OF THE BAND.
I did a lot of work with The Band, Keith Richards, all of those guys.
My allegiances slide with the music. Albums like Bitches Brew and the early electric fusion records were very important to me. Herbie Hancock and Chick Corea were big parts of my world. When I got out of Berklee Pat Metheny was also on our circuit, so I spent a lot of time with him and Marc Johnson. I then got into singer-songwriters, but I never left jazz as I did work with Dan Brubeck and the Digital Dolphins.
I realized early on that I loved making records so being in the studio always took preference.
THE STUDIO CAN BE AN INTRIGUING PLACE
I was talking to Steve Gadd about this…
I don’t know if you heard, but there is a recording of the original Return to Forever band that has Steve Gadd playing drums before Lenny White joined the band. It exists somewhere out there.
The reason they re-cut it was Steve realized that he was going to have to go on the road and give up his extremely lucrative studio career. He just couldn’t bring himself to do it, so they brought in Lenny and re-cut the whole record.
That’s why Chick later did his Friends album, as the original band was Chick with Stanley Clarke, Bill Connors and Steve Gadd. But, somewhere out there those masters are floating around, and I hope that some day they’ll be put out just for fun.
HOW DID YOU GET ASSOCIATED WITH GADD?
I heard about it when I was working on a record with him and Mike Manieri, Tony Levin and Dave Spinoza on L’image. I have a history with them, as I grew up around Woodstock, NY where they all lived. I was friends with Mike’s son Fred. He’d invite me over to Gadd’s house and we’d see The Brecker Brothers rehearsing or the early stages of Steps Ahead. That was my life after school!
WHAT DO YOU BRING TO THE TABLE WHEN YOU DO RECORDING AND ENGINEER WORK?
It’s hard to talk about myself, but the number one thing others have said to me “It’s just great to have a real musician behind the board.” Everything I do is related to getting the best of the music down. It’s not just about the technical stuff. I know how things tick, but the bottom line is the music, how to read scores, being able to punch it up immediately instead of waiting 15 minutes and having the musician lose his idea.
They start to rely on me as that extra set of ears, which is both the best complement and best job that I do. I can be objective and obviously with great players it’s easy to do that. Usually it’s just picking the best of the best.
Hudson is a great example of that. For the recording we spent about 5 days, which is a real luxury in jazz as it’s usually just 2-3 days. They then just left and said, “Scott, you’re on your own. Just mix this thing and send us the tracks on the road (as they were going off into different directions.
I’d tell them, “It will be better if we cut these two takes together” and most of the time they agreed, or someone may have a suggestion. It was a very cooperative group. It was almost like I’m the 5th Beatle, which is a very comfortable place to be.
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“It was almost like I’m the 5th Beatle, which is a very comfortable place to be”
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YOU ALSO DO A LOT OF WORK WITH SINGERS LIKE MICHAEL FRANKS. DO YOU APPROACH AND APPRECIATE THEM DIFFERENTLY THAN MUSICIANS
Great singers are great musicians; they’re equals. A guy like Michael Franks has great natural instincts. He trusts me as well, as I’ve been the executive producer of his last few albums. We coalesce our ideas together everything that everyone is doing on the recordings. He’ll think about who will work on the album like a Chuck Loeb, Gil Goldstein or Jimmy Haslip, run with it and get some feedback, and then send back and forth recordings. It’s a real mix and match.
Michael himself and I will listen to it all. Our sensibilities are locked up; I know what he wants and stylistically where he is comfortable. Yet he’s still willing to push the envelope, so I try to leave room for that.
He’s so distinctive as a singer. Just like a Levon Helm or a James Taylor, it doesn’t matter what you do behind them. As long as you are good, they are going to sound like who they are. That makes it easier than trying to create a sound for someone.
I respect the great singers. The voice is the ultimate instrument. If you can’t hear and sing it as a musician-you try to sing along with your solo as you try to play it so you’re not just playing scales or something.
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“Try to sing along with your solo as you try to play it so you’re not just playing scales or something”
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YOU ALSO HAVE A HEART TOWARDS CUMBERLAND GAP AMERICANA WITH TOM PAXTON, HAPPY TRAM AND BLUESERS LIKE LUCKY PETERSON.
What you find is that all of these musics coalesce. Not everyone chooses to work in all of those styles, but they are the American forms. There wouldn’t be jazz without blues, and they influence each other in terms of rock and blues solos.
Robin Trower for instance; he’s not playing straightahead blues. He’s taken a lot of ideas harmonically from a lot of jazz guys. Lucky Peterson comes from the gospel church tradition, which has a lot of co-existence with early jazz. Corey Henry from Snarky Puppy came from the church and went one way, and Lucky went to church and went another way. Both are very valid musical forms.
That’s really it for me; is this music speaking to people? It’s less as to if it’s a particular form. We like to put things in boxes, but as Duke Ellington said, “If it sounds good, it is good.”
ARE THERE ANY MUSICIANS YOU PARTICULARLY LIKE WORKING WITH?
It’s hard not to like setting up for a guy like Steve Gadd, or any of the drummers on my records. I’ve been working with Omar Hakim on his album, and he worked on mine.
He’s a lovely guy; he’s what I would call one of the most well-rounded of the studio guys. He understands the pop tune world. He can play the clicks and all of that stuff and yet he can also blow like nobody’s business.
Drummers always impress me; when they are great they drive the band. They are everything. If the drummer’s not happening…
The bass is important, but without a good drummer it really falls apart. I always lean towards them first.
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“The bass is important, but without a good drummer it really falls apart. I always lean towards them first”
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YOUR ALBUM INCLUDES DAVID SANCIOUS, WHO WAS ON BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN’S FIRST RECORDINGS, GIVING THEM A HIP SWING FEEL THAT HE LOST IN HIS SUBSEQUENT AND MORE POPULAR ALBUMS.
A lot of people feel that way about Springsteen. David Sancious is one of those guys whose recorded output is only a tip of the iceberg of what he’s capable of doing.
I’ve gone to his place (which is not far from me) and we’ve just jammed. He’s so deep and yet he’s moved through so many different styles and adapts to every piece. He’s not in just one bag because these days you have to adjust to different artists.
These guys who are in their 50s and 60s have played everything. After Miles played “In A Silent Way” everyone’s perspective changed on what it means to be an instrumental musician, jazz musician or pop musician. He showed that they can all kind of co-exist.
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“After Miles played “In A Silent Way” everyone’s perspective changed on what it means to be an instrumental musician”
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LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR RAINBOW GRAVITY ALBUM, WHICH COULD ALSO BE “THE LOST WEATHER REPORT ALBUM.”
(Laughs) I’m really happy with that label. I really didn’t intend that, but it is very difficult for me envision that time. I was asking myself “What was the feeling I got from those Weather Report records?”
It’s funny; I’m actually more influenced by their earlier “Pre-Jaco” records. I love Sweetinghter and I Sing the Body Electric, those long jam records that came out at the time during Miles Bitches Brew.
Those albums were important to me, but I didn’t completely go that way because in a lot of ways that is a lot more difficult to do; in many ways it’s more difficult that writing a piece of music that’s 6-7 minutes long with great players getting together and record. You need to have this chemistry that happens to have that kind of music to really work and be able to go 30-40 years back and say “Yep, it’s still working.”
ON THEIR FIRST ALBUM THEY HAD THAT “MILKY WAY” WHICH HAD PEOPLE WONDERING HOW THAT GOT THAT WILD SOUND
They were experimental. They were listening to Hendrix and all these prior guys being “pre-avant garde.” Some of that was obviously to get a wider audience, but a lot of it was just because talented musicians’ ears perk up when they hear a sound that’s different . That is what sort of defined that era. Not all fusion music at that time was great, but almost all of it had the quality of pushing something ahead.
WHICH OF THE SONGS ON THE NEW ALBUM IMPRESS YOU THE MOST?
I really like what “Sly-Fi” is about. It’s about that period of time with “groove meeting improvisaton meeting a longer song form” yet still with a melody that you can hang your hat on. I named it “Sly-Fi” because it’s a tribute to Sly and The Family Stone and that (Sly Stewart) was a major influence to guys like Miles to try different things and incorporate various grooves and feels.
I also love the song that Carla Bley wrote (“Lawns”) for sentimental reasons and because the guys did such a great job on it.
I love all of the songs I did with Jack (DeJohnette) and we’ve talked about doing an entire album like “Dark Pools.” That might be my next project. He was thinking of developing it into a long form, so we’ll see.
YOURE ALBUM INCLUDED MIKE MANIERI, WHO WAS A MAJOR PLAYER IN STEPS AHEAD, BUT OF ALL THE PLAYERS IN THAT BAND (WHICH INCLUDED STEVE GADD, MICHAEL BRECKER, MIKE STERN, DON GROLNICK AND EDDIE GOMEZ) HE NEVER GETS RECOGNITION FOR THIS GENRE.
I think it’s because he’s a vibes player and it’s not as visceral and visual as a guitarist. Any time you have a guitarist up for a Grammy, he’s probably going to win because he pulls attention, maybe also the sax.
I’m not alone, but I think that Mike Manieri is one of the greatest improvisors of our time. In terms of ideas, in terms of “live” it’s one thing. But, to see him in the studio, watch him work and then come in and talk about what he’s just done, it’s just so heavy. He’s on another plane.
He and Gary Burton invented that whole four mallet thing. That was the beginning, and now it’s gone wild.
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“I think that Mike Manieri is one of the greatest improvisors of our time”
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IT WAS LIKE BREAKING THE FOUR MINUTE MILE
Yeah, they broke through with the four MALLET mile! (laughs)
WHAT FUTURE PROJECTS ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO?
I’m just starting a duet record. I first thought of it as a bass duet record, as I’m friends with Mark Egan and Tony Levin. Some electric and acoustic players like Dave Holland, if I can get them all together.
If not, I’ll just do duets with different instruments so I can incorporate all kinds of people and pieces I did with Jack. With the album I created some loops as we played and we just improvised off of them.
I’ve got a lot of production projects. One with Ravi Coltrane, Jack and Matthew Garrison. Things in that world. I’m trying to get more involved with the Planet Arts label and Tom Bellino who lives nearby wants to do projects with the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra and some Sun Ra stuff that needs to be cleaned up and archived.
I kind of love unearthing things. I’m working on Frank Zappa stuff that nobody’s heard before.
ANY CHANCE FOR CONCERTS IN SWINGING TOWNS LIKE NEW PALTZ?2606
We’re contemplating it now. There’s definitely more than a chance. I don’t know if I’d have the whole band. The only one on the album I’m trying to work it out with is Bob Mintzer because he’s on the West Coast. But Omar and Rachel Z are available and maybe Dave Sancious, so we could get a pretty good cross section of the group.
ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR THAT INSPIRES YOU DAY BY DAY?
I don’t know if there is a specific philosophy; I’m motivated by work, and my work ethic. That’s why I do so many things. Not all of them turn out to be the greatest thing in the world, but the idea is to get up in the morning and try to create. Any of the usual suspects that encourage me to do that would fit the bill.
Yet, at the end of the work, when it’s all over, you just have to let it go.
Some times the project is just for you, and after it’s done you just change course. That happens all of the time in the studio, less so when you’re working with such heavy musicians. Then, it’s “How much better can this get?!?”
I just did an album with Dave Holland, and to just watch Dave play 8-9 hours a day and be creative is about as heavy as it can get. There’s no better school than that. That’s the best thing about being in the studio; I get to watch other bass players create. It’s the best learning and inspiration I could ever have.
Seeing these best players at what they do; they are just so musical which makes you re-evaluate what you write and how you play and think. Hopefully you do a job that communicates to others. That’s pretty important.
COMMUNICATION IS A KEY TO PETITO’S MUSICAL CAREER, WHETHER IT BE BEHIND THE BASS OR A CONTROL BOOTH. CHECK OUT HIS LATEST ALBUM RAINBOW GRAVITY FOR SOME IMPRESSIVE MUSICALITY, AND KEEP LOOKING FOR HIS NAME ON THE CREDITS OF YOUR FAVORITE ARTISTS