SOMETIMES, AN ARTIST WILL SURPRISE YOU.
ORGANMEISTER JOEY DEFRANCESCO IS THE UNDISPUTED MASTER OF THE HAMMOND B3, HAVING DISPLAYED HIS VIRTUOSITY UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF MILES DAVIS AND JOHN MCLAUGHLIN AS WELL AS RELEASING AN OLYMPUS OF A CATALOGUE, INCLUDING SESSIONS WITH THE BATON PASSER JIMMY SMITH, AND HIS HIS OWN BEAUTS PROJECT FREEDOM AND 4O.
DEFRANCESCO HAS THROWN A FEW CURVES IN THE PAST, SUCH AS HIS RINGER OF A ONE-OFF WITH JOE PESCI ON VOCALS FOR A SURPRISINGLY SMOKY FALLING IN LOVE AGAIN BACK IN 2003.
BUT WHO WOULD HAVE PREDICTED THE TEAMING OF DEFRANCESCO WITH THE IRISH TENOR ICON VAN MORRISON WOULD PRODUCE WHAT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE BEST ALBUMS OF THE YEAR? EVEN MORE, THE FACT THAT MORRISON PULLS OUT HIS ALTO SAX AND PLAYS LIKE THE SECOND COMING OF HANK CRAWFORD HAS TO BE ONE OF THE PLEASANT SURPRISES OF THE YEAR.
WE RECENTLY CAUGHT JOEY D IN CONCERT, AND HAD A CHAT ABOUT HIS CAREER, HIS RECENT ALBUM, AND HIS WORLDVIEW APPROACH TO MUSIC.
WHAT SURPRISED ME AT THE SHOW IS THAT YOU DIDN’T HAVE YOUR HAMMOND B3. INSTEAD YOU WERE PLAYING A LEGEND ORGAN. WHAT CHANGED?
Because of the age of the Hammonds, it’s hard to find good ones to rent. This company in Italy, Viscount, makes great instruments. The one I was playing last night was a signature model, and it’s great because you don’t need Leslie speakers with it. I love the way that it plays and how it sounds. So, now, any one of these that I get wherever I go will sound how I want it to.
CAN YOU TELL ON A RECORDING IF IT’S A HAMMOND B3 OR ANOTHER KEYBOARD?
Not anymore. I used to be able to tell in a second with the first digital organs. These days it’s really tough to tell, and I really can’t tell anymore.
SO, WHEN YOU DO PULL OUT THE OLD HAMMOND B3, DO YOU USE IT JUST FOR THE PERSONAL FEEL, OR SOME OTHER REASON?
If you use your own personal one, it’s great. The problem is that when you rent one you never know what you’re going to get. Every one of them sounds and feels different.
FOR TENOR SAX PLAYERS, CERTAIN NUMBERS (USUALLY 80,000 to 110,000) ARE THE VINTAGE SAXES. DO HAMMONDS HAVE A GOLDEN ERA OR SERIAL NUMBERS WHEN THEY WERE MADE?
Absolutely. I like everything from 1962-73.
WHAT IS FASCINATING ABOUT THE B3 IS THAT IT SEEMS DIFFICULT TO GET A PERSONAL SOUND DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE KEYBOARDS APPEAR TO TAKE AWAY A PERSONAL TOUCH. HOW DO YOU DEVELOP YOUR OWN SOUND WITH THIS FACTOR?
That’s an interesting point. Even though it’s an electric instrument everyone that plays it sounds different. There are a lot of things that are going on with it.
There’s a thing called the Volume Pedal, but the real term is the “Expression Pedal.” It’s kind of like your breath; loud and soft. They way you use that is an integral part of the sound of the instrument. Different people do different things with it, especially if you play more staccato or legato.
Somebody could sit down with the same instrument but make it sound like a completely different organ because of the way they play it.
WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR WHEN YOU ARE SITTING DOWN AND LISTENING TO A B3 PLAYER?
As long as it’s swinging and fluid; that’s what it’s about.
WHAT SEPARATES A GOOD HAMMOND PLAYER FROM A GREAT ONE?
For the instrument, one that has everything working right. (laughs) It needs to sound clear with no distortion.
As far as players, I can tell if someone has been playing the organ for a long time, or at least understands the instrument by doing his homework. There are a lot of subtleties that are important that if you don’t do them or don’t do them right they still have some work to do.
For instance, there are guys who are really good musicians at the piano, but you put them behind the organ and it’s a whole new ballgame. They may play, but how they’re keeping time with their left and right feet, or how much they turn the Leslie speakers treble on…that’s when you can tell that they really don’t understand the instrument enough.
YOUR DAD WAS AN ACCOMPLISHED HAMMOND PLAYER. WHAT DID YOU LEARN MUSICALLY AND CAREER WISE?
My dad had the instrument in the house, which was a blessing. I loved hearing him play it. Then, he had this great record collection. His biggest thing was that he had us listen to a lot of music. Listening was a big thing.
Like I was talking about those little subtle things on the organ, he helped me with that in my early stages. That got a lot out of the way so I could grow technically and harmonically because I understood the organ before I even understood how to play music!
The older I get the more I appreciate the little things that he hipped me to. It was never a big pressure thing like “You’d better practice!” I just loved it; I wanted to play. To me it wasn’t practice, it was playing! The instrument calls you.
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It’s not that all instruments don’t have a spiritual level to them, but especially the organ…I guess that’s why they use it in church.
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YOU GREW UP UNDER THE TUTELAGE OF GROOVE HOLMES AND JACK MCDUFF. WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM THEM?
First, just hearing them on records was amazing to me. I started listening to that stuff, and Jimmy Smith, when I was about 4 years old. When I became 9 or 10 I started going to the clubs to see them live in concert, and it was all whole other experience. As great as those records were, hearing these guys stretch without any limitations and playing what they really felt was just unbelievable.
The first guy I saw perform (other than my dad) was when I was 7 and in NYC I saw Jimmy Smith. It just blew my mind the way this stuff sounded in the room with the musicians playing together.
I had been sitting in and playing with my dad , but when I heard other people playing it was a whole other thing. There was another lady, named Trudy Pitts. A lot of people don’t know about her but they should. She was from Philly, and she and her husband “Mr. C” were the second people I saw live. I got really close to her and spent a lot of time with her.
As I got older and got calls for gigs I started hearing lots of different guys. I was like a sponge back then.
THE THING THAT IS SO ALLURING ABOUT THE HAMMOND IS THAT IT HAS A VISCERAL QUALITY THAT OTHER INSTRUMENTS CAN’T REACH. THOSE LOW SUBTONES IN PARTICULAR; YOU FEEL IT MORE THAN HEAR IT.
I guess it depends on the player and his personality. It’s not that all instruments don’t have a spiritual level to them, but especially the organ…I guess that’s why they use it in church.
WHICH BRINGS US TO A SONG YOU DID ON YOUR ALBUM 40. THE CLOSING SONG “CARUSO,” YOU GO EMOTIONALLY WHERE FEW HAVE GONE BEFORE
That whole record was reflective of my turning 40. My wife and her family loved that song, so that’s why I did it. I had done it with somebody else before, but I really dug into it that time. When I put it on now, I can’t help but well up inside.
YOUR ALBUM WITH JOE PESCI SINGING AS “JOE DOGGS” WAS A RINGER! NO ONE EVER SEEMS TO TALK ABOUT THIS CLASSIC. HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?
I was actually playing in Harlem one night; a benefit gig for Jack McDuff who wasn’t doing too well. Everyone was there at this club called Showman’s, with McDuff’s organ in there. Pat Martino and I drove up and we played together. All the NY cats like George Benson were there.
When I came off the stage and about to leave, there was this little dude standing out there and he says (gruffly) “I really like the way you play. I wanna sing with you sometime. I’m Joe. I said, “I know who you are, Mr. Pesci.”
I didn’t realize what a real jazz nut and musician that he was. We got together a couple of times and rehearsed. I liked the way he sang, so we ended up doing a record.
When Pat Martino first went to New York and played with (tenor saxist) Willis Jackson, Pesci would go see him there. They were just kids at the time.
YOU DID A PAIR OF ALBUMS WITH MILES DAVIS, AMANDLA AND LIVE. WHAT ARE YOUR REFLECTIONS OF THAT TIME?
It was amazing. I was blessed and honored to be around him and befriend him.
What surprised me most about him was how cool he was, because you hear all of these stories. He was a very quiet and private guy. This was a later period in his life, so he was just himself and relaxed. He was all about the music. 100% music.
He was very encouraging and complementary to me. He never told you what to play. The only thing that he said was “just put some space in there.” I wanted to play non-stop all the time. He’d say, “Just put some holes in there.”
YOU ALSO DID WORK WITH JOHN MCLAUGHLIN. HOW DID THAT DIFFER FROM MILES?
That was just a big ass-kicker (laughs). Just to learn it.
Miles actually introduced us years before. McLaughlin heard my records and he wanted to put an organ trio together. He called me, and he could tell by listening to my records that I could play fast with a lot of technique. That makes a lot of people assume that you are a very technical person and theoretical and able to read well, and I wasn’t!
I could barely read music! I could read chord changes, but notes and rhythms…I couldn’t sight read. I’m a little better now, but I was horrible then.
This is before emails and text messages. This is when somebody would send you a cassette to learn something. But he just sent me a stack of music; I got it, basically looked at it and ignored it. “What am I going to do with this?!?”
He, Dennis Chambers and I were about to go on tour, and we had 4 days in London to rehearse. When I showed up he says, “Let’s start” and I said, “I’m not ready; do you have a tape or something for me to listen to, because I don’t read music.” He was really shocked.
I told him if he would just play everything for me on a tape and give me a night with it, I’ll get it. My mind was especially clear then, and my memory was still pretty good.
So he recorded it and got me a little keyboard with headphones for my hotel room. The next day when I came in, I was ready.
He would give you a lot of freedom when it was your time to solo, but the melody, and certain passages…he wanted us to play those things in unison and he wanted them exactly right. Some musicians will let you slide, but John said, “No, you have to play it in unison with me and it’s like this.”
He had a vision and he wanted things to sound a certain way. So I had to have it down very precisely.
It really changed me; it made me think about how to learn other things, and opened my ears up to different harmonies and to Indian music, which he was really into. That was a big learning experience for me. I was eighteen years old with that band!
THAT WAS A BAPTISM BY FIRE.
Really. And it was great because you also have a lot of space in his band. He was so cool. I told him once “I always wanted to play with Elvin Jones 2100” and he said that was a good idea. The next thing you know is that he put that thing together with us.
John is a gentleman, and what a musician!
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I wanted to play non-stop all the time. (Miles would) say, “Just put some holes in there.”
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YOUR NEW ALBUM WITH VAN MORRISON IS A REAL RINGER! WHO’S IDEA WAS IT TO PUT OUT THIS SWINGING BLUES SESSION?
It was Van Morrison’s.
WHAT WAS THE GENESIS OF THE SESSION?
I saw him years ago in Ireland at the Cork Jazz Festival. In fact I was with John McLaughlin’s band there. We opened for him, and it was like “hello” and no big meeting.
Then, in the fall of 2014 I was playing with David Sanborn at Ronnie Scott’s and he came and caught our set. He really enjoyed it and said something like we’ve got to do something together.
Then, around spring of last year his management called my management and asked “Would Joey like to do some recording?” It sounded like a cool thing; everyone likes Van Morrison!
That was it; it was just kind of vague. We had a phone conversation that was really loose. “What do you want to play?” “Well, what do YOU want to play?”
We sat together in Ireland for a couple of days talking about music, some of the things he’d been doing “live.” “Could you put a spin on them with your band?” he asked. I didn’t know if it was going to be his record or what.
He asked “Do you think we need a producer?” and I said, “Naw, we’ll do it on our own.”
I therefore knew I would be co-producing, which was very exciting. We used my band, and there’s the album!
WERE YOU SURPRISED AT HIS TALENTS ON THE ALTO SAX? HE SOUNDS LIKE HANK CRAWFORD!
I’d first seen him play at the festival in Ireland, but he’s not playing the sax on everything.
In fact, the first things he ever did was that he was a saxophone player back in the 60s. He told me that he started singing because one time the singer in the band couldn’t make it one time. He wanted to have an instrumental jazz band. He loves that stuff.
The way that he sings is influenced by all that. You can hear all of that in him.
SO, THE FACT THAT HE’S A JAZZER WASN’T AS MUCH A SURPRISE TO YOU AS IT WILL BE TO HIS ROCK AUDIENCE.
He has been using his sax for awhile, but many people still don’t know that he does that.
WERE YOU SURPRISED HOW WELL YOU ALL JELLED TOGETHER?
Not really. I could tell by his own tunes, and especially after hanging out with him for awhile. I know we’d get a good vibe.
And it did. We started popping out tunes. He liked the arrangements that I did and we really started grooving in the studio. I don’t think there were more than two takes of anything we did. Just about everything was one take.
WHAT WERE YOUR INSIGHTS ON MEETING JIMMY SMITH AND YOUR RECORDINGS?
It was a fantastic experience. The only live gigs we did officially were at Catalina’s. He passed away right when our record came out, so being able to do that was just great.
It’s not a great analogy, but it was like Muhammed Ali hanging out with the current heavyweight champ.
IS THERE ANY BOOK OR PHILOSOPHY THAT INSPIRES YOU?
Yes. The universe. Living the way you want to, but properly. Treating people with respect. That’s what is important, and people need to do that. We shouldn’t say it, but it is a lost art.
I still have a lot of hope. When I go around the world, everything’s cool for the most part.
GOD AND MUSIC ARE GREAT UNIFIERS
Perfect. I couldn’t say it any better.
IF YOU WANT AN ALBUM THAT WILL MAKE YOU RAISE YOUR EYEBROWS IN ADMIRATION, CHECK OUT THE COLLABORATION BETWEEN JOEY D AND MORRISON. IF YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT AN ARTIST THAT WILL RAISE YOUR GLASS IN A TOAST, GO SEE JOEY D NEXT TIME HE HUMMS INTO TOWN.