IT’S TEMPTING TO REST ON YOUR LAURELS WHEN YOU ARE DRUMMER STEVE SMITH. HAVING BEEN VOTED INTO THE DRUMMING HALL OF FAME IN 2001, HE WAS VOTED THE BEST ALL AROUND DRUMMER THE YEAR BEFORE!
AND, JUST A QUICK GLIMPSE OVER HIS CAREER EASILY REVEALS WHY. HIS ASSOCIATIONS REVEAL A WIDE PALATE OF STYLES, WHICH INCLUDE STINTS WITH JEAN-LUC PONTY’S FUSION BAND, STEPS AHEAD, AS WELL AS WITH THE FAMED ROCK GROUP JOURNEY. UNDER HIS OWN LEADERSHIP HE HAS FORMED THE HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL VITAL INFORMATION BAND AS WELL AS TAKING TIME TO PUT TOGETHER MUSIC DEDICATED TO HIS IDOL BUDDY RICH.
HIS MOST RECENT VITAL INFORMATION ALBUM, HEART OF THE CITY, IS AN ACOUSTIC BOPPING AFFAIR, COMBINING VINTAGE GROOVES WITH SOME HIP EXPERIMENTAL IDEAS FROM VARIOUS PARTS OF THE WORLD.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO PICK THE BRAIN OF SMITH, WHO IS CURRENTLY TOURING AROUND IN PROMOTION OF THE NEW ALBUM. AS WITH HIS PLAYING, HIS ANSWERS ARE CLEVER, CREATIVE, WELL THOUGHT OUT AND ABOVE ALL, TIMELY.
WHO WAS THE FIRST DRUMMER THAT GOT YOUR ATTENTION?
Buddy Rich, of course. Considering the era that I grew up in; I started playing drums before The Beatles. That seems to be an important dividing line.
Gene Krupa was also someone I listened to. My parents had the album Live From Carnegie Hall, and I loved that. When I started taking drum lessons in 1963 from a jazz drummer in the Boston area, he initially told me about Buddy Rich, so I started listening to him.
Shortly after that I got to meet him, when he started touring with his “new” big band in 1966. So, I grew up in love with big band music. I got to see Woody Herman, Count Basie, and Stan Kenton’s band many times.
I loved Stan Kenton’s band, especially because they had Peter Erskine on drums, and he was my age! Here he was, this 18 year old kid, just like me except he was on stage with Stan Kenton!
After that I got hip to all the great jazz drummers like Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Max Roach, and then Billy Cobham, Lenny White and that next generation of players that came in. In my opinion at the time, they were on the forefront of jazz, but later it was called “fusion.”
As it was happening, around 1972 when I graduated high school, it just seemed to be the vanguard of jazz. I didn’t see it as something separate from jazz. That became highly influential to me, and became a blueprint of how I developed my playing, because that was the music of my time, generation and era.
In the early 70s, the most important music that was happening was the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Billy Cobham’s band, Tony Williams’ Lifetime, Herbie Hancock’s Headhunters and Weather Report, and that became my most influential music before I started going out and working.
When I left Berklee in ’76, the first artist I toured with was Jean-Luc Ponty, in that fusion direction.
YOU SAY THE BEATLES IS A MUSICAL DIVIDING LINE. HOW DID YOUR PRE-BEATLES UPBRINGING AFFECT YOUR DRUMMING DNA AND SKILLS?
That’s a good question. I would say that how it affected my dna is that I am “rooted” in swing. All of the really great rock drummers of the early rock era from the 50s into the 60s are rooted in swing, and therefore it gives their rock drumming a great groove.
Whether it is Ringo, Charlie Watts, John Bonham or Ian Paice, and all of the US drummers like Carmen Appice and Don Brewer from Grand Funk Railroad, they all grew up highly influenced by swing because that music was in the culture and atmosphere.
It also gave me an approach that gives me the mind of a jazz musician. I want to learn how to play the instrument; I want to learn about the music and then play it and improvise and have a dialogue with the other musicians when I’m improvising.
Drummers influenced by The Beatles may not have the inclination to be improvisors; they may have more of the inclination to play the drums, be in a band and make music and records. That’s what one of the main influences of the Beatles was, that “you could be in a band.”
You could play drums and be in a band, and you didn’t have to be a “professional musician.” Before that you really had to be a well versed, fully studied professional who had to pass a test to get into the musician’s union.
I went through all of that initiation and became a working musician. I’d then be hired to play in a circus band, or a big band, a polka band and a wedding band, or do bar mitzvahs. Things like that, and there was a certain professionalism needed for that.
But, if you wanted to be in a rock band, none of that mattered. You just learned how to play well enough to be in that rock band.
WHAT WAS THE BEST THING YOU TOOK FROM SOME OTHER DRUMMER AND INCORPORATED INTO YOUR OWN STYLE?
That actually goes on to this day.
There’s lots of ways of looking at it. Number one, just the overall concept and approach. When I first saw Billy Cobham, his approach was a paradigm shift from my wanting to play the more Buddy Rich approach to more of Cobham’s approach, to become more of a rock-jazz-fusion drummer.
It goes on and on. I saw Tony Williams play and there were certain phrases that he played that I wanted to learn, so I figured them out. I listened to the records, I saw him play live and figure those things out and started using them.
It continues to this day; For example if I hear something that Zigaboo Modeliste plays for The Meters and I like it, I’ll transcribe it and learn it, then work with it until it becomes part of my vocabulary.
WHEN YOU WATCH A DRUMMER PLAY, WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR?
I’m looking at the big picture. I’m listening to the music and how the drummer fits into the overall music. I don’t just listen to the drummer; I’m listening to the whole environment, and hopefully the drummer is complementing the environment and is playing his role, which is to support the other musicians and make the other musicians sound better.
Whatever that takes and whatever genre that is, as it’s different in different genres. If I hear a drummer play a song in a rock group, it may be entirely made up of composed drum parts that he played on an album, but in creating that “live” he is infusing the parts with an energy to make it feel fresh. That can move me, as well as seeing Jack DeJohnette play with his current group Hudson with Scofield, Medeski and Grenadier and how they’ll approach the music. I wanna hear the steering of their interaction, their improvisation and what transpires that night.
DO YOU HAVE PET PEEVE OF DRUMMERS?
I can’t say that I have one. (pause) If there is one, it’s when drummers play too hard. I love to hear drummers with a nice touch that are able to draw a beautiful sound from the instrument.
That can happen at all dynamic levels ; it just doesn’t mean playing soft. Billy Cobham gets a beautiful sound with his instrument, and Tony Williams did, playing with a very big sound.
Drummers that just hit hard for the sake of hitting hard has a deadening effect on me.
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I don’t get lost listening to the soloist, but I really tune into what a particular soloist will need in order to find the freedom of expression and playing.
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I’M CAN’T FIGURE OUT WHY SOME DRUMMERS PLAY BEHIND THOSE PLEXIGLASS CAGES. CAN’T THEY CONTROL THEIR SOUND?
I’ve never played behind the plexiglass. I can control my volume. There’s something to be said for getting a beautiful tone out of the instrument. Balance your limbs so that you’re playing the snare drum in relation to the volume that you’re playing with the bass drum in relation to the cymbals. Just having that sound and feel let, and then having the sound man do the rest.
YOUR FIRST GIGS PREPARED YOU FOR A WIDE VARIETY OF SOUNDS AS THEY WERE FUSION WITH PONTY, BOP WITH BUDDY DEFRANCO AND THE HEAVY METAL WITH RONNIE MONTROSE. DO YOU HAVE TO CHANGE MENTAL GEARS FOR EACH GENRE?
The Buddy DeFranco gig was more in the line of how I was playing at the time in those early years, about 1974-1975, playing in small gigs and had yet to play in fusion although I was hearing it and being influenced by it.
My gateway into fusion was by Jean-Luc Ponty. When I first worked with him I had a small drum set, but I could combine the rock energy with jazz improvisation and odd time signatures, which his music required.
He was the one who asked me to buy a big double-bass drum set. I did that and had a lot of fun playing it, like Billy Cobham, which is what he wanted. It also sounded big on stage.
I wouldn’t say Montrose was heavy metal at all. Even the Montrose band with Denny Carmassi and Sammy Hagar; that was more like the American version of Led Zeppelin.
The Montrose band that I toured with was Ronnie Montrose’s solo guitar album tour, Open Fire. The way he put it was that he needed a Simon Phillips to do what he was doing with Jeff Beck. It was an instrumental rock group.
It was an extension of my playing with Jean-Luc Ponty in that it was instrumental rock, but it was with real rock musicians.
That was a crossroads for me, because the same the same week I auditioned for Ronnie Montrose I also auditioned for Freddie Hubbard. I got both gigs.
So I had to make a decision, do I go back to playing the basic piano, bass and horn with a small drum set, or do I tour with “real” rock musicians. I’d never worked with rock musicians before.
I was curious as to what that was like, and being 23 years old I said “All right” and joined the Ronnie Montrose gig so I could keep playing my big drum set.
It was an interesting experience, and I enjoyed playing with Ronnie. He was a very good musician; he had great time and good time with a dynamic range. He could play real soft and then really rock out.
It was a real fun experience, and of course we were the opening act for Journey, so that was my introduction to the guys in Journey.
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Of course, I’m not “the best all around drummer,” but I am a drummer that can play all of the styles of music from the USA. I’m a US Ethnic Drummer.
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WHEN YOU REPLACE ANOTHER DRUMMER, SUCH AS REPLACING AYNSLEY DUNBAR IN JOURNEY, DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PREVIOUS GUY’S STYLE AND HOW TO FIT IN, OR DO YOU JUST SAY “HERE I AM”?
They wanted me in the band. They wanted what I was doing. Aynsley’s concept is a great example of that early generation of rock drumming that is highly swinging and influenced by jazz improvisation. It was a perfect fit for the early years of Journey.
He was close to getting the gig with Jimi Hendrix, but Mitch Mitchell (who also plays in a very similar manner) got the job. If you read Mitch Mitchell’s book (The Hendrix Experience), he says in his autobiography that it came down to a coin toss between him and Dunbar because they had such similar styles.
So when I came into Journey they were still playing their earlier instrumental material which required improvisation and odd time signatures, more like an extension of Jean-Luc Ponty and Montrose, but they also wanted the more US R&Bish groove that I could bring.
Just living in the USA and being exposed to James Brown and Motown as part of our culture I could bring that to the rock drumming in the band to add that certain kind of groove. And that is what Steve Perry was really looking for.
His singing is purely out of gospel, like how so many pop singers came from gospel like Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson. Those were his role models; you can hear it in his voice. He took the Sam Cooke school of R&B singing and took it to a rock audience. They didn’t know the difference; they just loved his voice and his inflections.
He needed that R&Bish gospel groove in the rock mode, and I could do that. I felt that the main reason they wanted me in the band was so that they could develop what they had initially started with the Infinity record and bring it to its potential.
YOU WENT FROM THERE TO STEPS AHEAD.
Steps Ahead started in something like 1975, and the original drummer was Steve Gadd. Eddie Gomez was on bass and Don Grolnick on keyboards with Mike Manieri and Michael Brecker. Peter Erskine then left Weather Report and took Gadd’s place.
I left Journey in 1985. I started doing drum clinics because I had the time to do them. I was doing one in Philadelphia along with Peter Erskine and Lenny White. The three of us were in the dressing room talking before the gig, and Peter said that he just left Steps Ahead to go back with Joe Zawinul with his band Weather Update.
Lenny White chimes in and says “I know you left, because Manieri just called me to replace you in Steps Ahead. I can’t do it, because I’m too busy producing .
I said “Hey guys, I need a gig” and Lenny White called up Mainieri.
Sure enough, I was doing another clinic in a store in Washington DC, and the owner came up to me and said “I’ve got Mike Manieri on the phone.”
I didn’t know Mike, but I was a huge fan of Steps Ahead. Michael Brecker later called me to join the band; they had been auditioning drummers, but they couldn’t find anyone. I didn’t have to audition, which was fantastic. At that time Mike Stern was with the band; we were good friends from Berklee and he played on my Vital Information records. Victor Bailey and Daryl Jones would switch off at bass, depending on who was available.
That was an incredible band. To go from Journey to Steps Ahead was an incredible shift; the musicianship was at such a high level. I felt like I was back in school.
YOU’VE DRUMMED WITH SOME OF THE GREATEST SOLOISTS LIKE BRECKER, STERN, CORYELL, GAMBALI, ETC. HOW DO YOU NOT GET LOST WHEN THEY ARE SOLOING IN WILD EXTRAPOLATIONS?
I don’t get lost listening to the soloist, but I really tune into what a particular soloist will need in order to find the freedom of expression and playing.
It’s really different depending on who the soloist is, and in some ways how self-contained they are in terms of time and form.
Some soloists are so self-contained, for example Michael Brecker, that he didn’t need me to dictate the form of the song, like “Here’s ‘One.’” He was so self-contained that within himself that he freed me up to be able to express myself in my accompaniment.
Dave Liebman and Hiromi are like that. She doesn’t require a lot of obvious clarity from the drums; it can be more abstract and she won’t get lost.
But, other musicians want and need a little more clarity. “And here’s the corner coming up, and here’s the top of the tune.” I’m happy to do any of it, but it can take me awhile to get a read on a person. A lot of times we’ll talk about it, and not just on the stage while it’s happening. Sometimes we’ll talk about what we need. Dave Liebman said to me, “Look, I don’t need a real obvious kind of drumming; you can be freer than you’re being. Just go for it. And if I get lost, I’ll keep playing until I can tell where it is.” And I love that!
HOW DOES THE BASSIST FIT IN WITH YOU?
The bassist fits in with the drummer and locks into his time. The bass and drummer agree on the pulse, but ultimately it comes down to the drummer and then hopefully the bass player is adaptable enough to be able to feel the groove in the same way.
In the jazz situation especially, the bass player’s role is similar to the drummer’s situation when it comes to harmony and interpreting the music.
When I played with Anthony Jackson and Hiromi, she’s very free. Her time is impeccable, and he’s able to lock in with anyone that he’s playing with, and he doesn’t have to play obvious downbeats on his bass line. He’s very free, playing more in that improvisational style that is more self-contained, allowing you to go off into long tangents and nobody gets lost.
One of the key examples of that would be the Keith Jarrett trio with Gary Peacock and Jack DeJohnette. If you listen to their “Standards” albums, you’ll hear exactly what I’m talking about. It’s very free, you can almost imagine when you’re listening to it that there’s no bar line. It’s so free.
Other bands are more clearly defined, like the Oscar Peterson Trio. Everyone’s got these clearly defined ways between the bass and drummer as they serve as a support system for Oscar. It’s not as much as a three-way interaction.
I’m playing at Birdland with Steve Kuhn, the original piano player in John Coltrane’s quartet. Also with Eric Alexander on tenor, Jaleel Shaw on alto and Lonnie Plaxico on bass. We’re playing the music of John Coltrane, and everyone is self-contained.
So we take care of business. We play the tunes and the form. If it’s a modal tune, I can be very free with that group and bring up the intensity.
ARE THERE CERTAIN BASSISTS THAT TEAM UP WITH YOU MORE EASILY THAN OTHERS?
Tom Kennedy and I hook up very well, and also Baron Browne in my Vital Information band. He naturally feels the pulse the way that I feel it, whether it’s swing or funk/rock.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE TWO VITAL INFORMATIONS, WITH ONE HAVING THE EXTRA NAME “VITAL INFORMATION NEW YORK.” WHAT’S THAT ALL ABOUT?
I originally came up with the name “Vital Information” as a way of doing albums outside of Journey. I started it in 1983 while I was still in Journey and wanted some expression outside of them.
We developed some musicians over the years who contributed and left
One of the longest standing members was Tom Coster, who was on keyboards with the band for over 20 years. Frank Gambale was in the group for a long time, and Vinny Valentino came in with Tom in the band. That band had a particular sound that evolved over the years; it was more electric fusion.
Tom has retired, and when he left the group I needed a keyboard player. I had been playing a lot with Mark Soskin, who’s in my bands Buddy’s Buddies and Jazz Legacy, and he’s a neighbor of mine in New York, so came into the group. I moved to New York in 2007. Vinny lives in New York, and Andy Fusco is from New York, and it became a different type of group, having less of a fusion sound and more of a jazz sound. So, I said “This is my New York edition” not knowing if I’d ever do the more fusiony kind of approach again.
I have this idea right now where we definitely have our fusion side with odd times, but we also play in the more “New York Jazz” style, so it’s a unique amalgamation. The name differentiates it from the older group.
YOU’VE BEEN VOTED “BEST ALL AROUND DRUMMER”. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
Of course, I’m not “the best all around drummer,” but I am a drummer that can play all of the styles of music from the USA. I’m a US Ethnic Drummer.
The idea of that came to me when I started hearing a lot about the Cuban, Brazilian and Puerto Rican drummers that were coming in, and when I talked with them, they really knew their roots and history, and they could play all kinds of music from their culture.
I realized that I only play the kind of music that I’m familiar with in my culture, but there’s a lot more that I’m not familiar with. This caused me to do a lot of digging deep with history research. I’ve become a kind of historian about it.
I start getting calls, like for playing in a blues trio, or a call to play on a Ray Price country music records. I’ll then do a quick read on country music. I look for the similarities.
It comes down to one of the first questions you asked me. Coming from a “Pre-Beatles” start with a natural swing to my playing, I have found that the common connection between all US music is the swing pulse.
If you go back far enough, and you listen to country music, blues, big band music, and before rock and roll, what they “rhythm and blues” which was an extension of the big bands, all of that music has the same swing pulse. No straight 8 notes, no Latin feel yet.
If you have that in your playing, if you can make an adjustment as to how the country musicians like to hear the beat played, or how the blues players like to feel that swing pulse, it’s pretty easy to fit in any situation.
THAT’S THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT OLDER MUSICIANS SAY ABOUT NEWER ARTISTS: THEY DON’T SWING ANYMORE
Exactly. If you don’t grow up with the swing pulse, it’s very hard to play a shuffle. It goes back to that pulse.
Of course, there are other drummers that have similar kinds of backgrounds and are open-minded enough to play lots of styles of music. Like Steve Gadd, Vinnie Colaiuta, Omar Hakim and Gregg Bissonette…there are so many that have those kind of roots and versatility.
I appreciate votes in Modern Drummer magazine; getting recognition for it feels really great. But I’m not narrowminded and egotistical enough to think that I’m the only one that can do it.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT MOTIVATES YOU PHILOSOPHICALLY OR RELIGIOSLY?
I’m always searching how to be the best person that I can be. I try to be open-minded and accepting. I gravitate towards the more Eastern spiritual side that is very open, whether it’s a combination of Buddhism, yoga or Tao. It’s an accepting of myself and other human beings in general.
I study yoga and practice it, but it’s not like one religion competing with another. It’s similar to a very good therapist (laughs).
IS THERE A DRUMMER THAT YOU WISH YOU COULD PLAY MORE LIKE?
Well, it’s not going to make you happy. (laughs) Because we’re humans, we have to live with our ups and downs in life.
But, that being said, if I could play rhythms on the drum set like Zakir Hussain plays rhythms on the tabla, I would enjoy that.
I’m also investigating the South Indian rhythms with the vocal sounds of Konnakol, and putting that into my music, getting the opportunity to play with Zakir. It’s always a thrill, and I learn a lot from him. In my opinion he’s the greatest living drummer.
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS?
Get some rest! But, I will be at Catalina’s for three nights.
SMITH AND COMPANY WILL BE AT CATALINA’S JANUARY 26-28. COME IN FOR A LISTEN AND TAKE IN SOME VITAL INFORMATION
CHECK OUT A TEMPTING VIDEO TO INDUCE YOU TO SEE THEIR UPCOMING GIGS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCd8vqD_7OA
HERE IS A LINK FOR THE LA-CATALINA TICKETS: https://www.ticketweb.com/search?q=Steve+Smith+and+Vital+Information&loc=hollywood-ca