YOU COULD SQUEEZE INTO A SMART CAR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WALKING AROUND THAT HAVE MADE JAZZ POPULAR. LARRY KLEIN IS A MEMBER OF THAT ELITE GROUP (ALONG WITH QUINCY JONES, DIANA KRALL, WYNTON MARSALIS AND….?)WHO HAVE TAKE AMERICA’S GREATEST SOUNDS AND PUT THEM IN ACCESSIBLE FORM.
THE FOUR TIME GRAMMY WINNER HAS MADE A CAREER SPANNING FROM PLAYING BASS WITH HARD BOP ICONS LIKE FREDDIE HUBBARD, AND EXPANDING HIS HORIZONS INTO PRODUCTION, WHERE HE HAS THE ABILITY TO CREATE ALBUMS BY JONI MITCHELL, LUCIANA SOUZA AND MADELEINE PEYROUX. HIS WORK ON THE JAZZ INTERPRETATIONS OF JONI MITCHELL’S COMPOSITIONS IN 2008, TITLED “RIVER, THE JONI LETTERS” WAS THE HARMONIC CONVERGENCE OF HAVING A JAZZ ALBUM WIN A GRAMMY FOR ALBUM OF THE YEAR.
HE HAS PUT JAZZ INTO MOVIE SOUNDTRACKS AS WELL, INCLUDING RAGING BULL, AND IS ABLE TO CREATE DISTINCTIVE SOUNDS FOR ARTISTS SUCH AS PETER GABRIEL AND MELODY GARDOT. IT’S A RARE ABILITY FOR A JAZZ ARTIST TO HAVE SUCH AN INFLUENCE IN MODERN POPULAR MUSIC, SO WE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO CATCH UP WITH LARRY, WHO AS ALWAYS, IS IN THE BEGINNING OF A NEW PROJECT.
HOW DID YOU INITIALLY GET INTERESTED IN MUSIC?
My parents had a great record collection, and that is probably the biggest factor in getting obsessed with music. They were big music fans and completely omnivorous in that they had a collection that stretched from Broadway musical stuff to jazz to the pop of the era that I was growing up in, which was right at the early Beatles. They went all the way through to classical, so just by proximity I ended up delving into their record collection when I was very young, taking guitar lessons and somewhat quickly became obsessed with music.
I don’t think that they had any idea or inkling that I was going to make that the center of my life, but that’s what happened.
HOW DID THAT TRANSLATE INTO BECOMING A JAZZ FAN AND MUSICIAN?
Amongst the records that they had was a Wes Montgomery record, a Johnny Hartman record…they had a scattered array of jazz albums. The way that I came to jazz was that once I focused on bass as the instrument I wanted to pursue, I started studying privately and concurrently playing in a community orchestra.
I was listening to and playing a cross section of jazz stuff, but I was completely omnivorous. I was listening to everything from what was on the radio to the southern soul music that was happening at that time. I was playing electric bass in a “kid band” that I was putting together with friends , and it became apparent to me that the area where the biggest challenges resided was in playing jazz.
That was really the impetus that sent me into that world. And then the more that I learned about it, and the more I absorbed it, the more obsessed I got. At a certain point, I started studying with a great bass and piano teacher who came from New York and was a friend of (bassist) Eddie Gomez from early on. Through him I was learning jazz harmony on the piano and concurrently expanding what I could do on the bass.
After that I got obsessed with Bill Evans; when you’re in your teens, things move quickly. If you get an adrenaline rush going with a certain area of music, you spend your whole day doing that and pursuing it. That’s what happened with me. Before I knew it, I was practicing 8 hours a day and the rest of the time listening to everything I could get my hands on.
HOW DID YOU GET FREDDIE HUBBARD’S ATTENTION?
To put things into a jazz context, I started in 7th grade going to an after school program called The Community Schools at USC. It was the predecessor to The Coburn School. It was on a corner of the USC campus in a doggy building, but it was an amazing place, because at that time it offered to middle school and high school students the ability to study with professors after school to study composition, theory and anything you wanted.
That was where I ran into (pianist) Billy Childs; we met each other there at 16 years old. We started playing together, and through osmosis we played at different places around town I ended up playing with a group of guys in a place Venice called The Comeback Inn. Before that, I had been going on the road a little bit with Willie Bobo, but that was where Freddie first heard me play; it was one of those great things that happen where you get a phone call from him and he asks you to come on up and play a little bit with him to check out the possibility of playing in his band.
Before I knew it I was flying to New York to start playing in his band which I ended up staying with on and off for 5 years or so.
YOU BECAME A LONGTIME TEAMMATE WITH CHILDS AS WELL.
What happened was that Billy was going to USC, and I ended up deciding that while I was going to Cal State LA, I had this opportunity with Freddie, so I might as well just go and do it and see what happens. Billy ended up staying at USC and getting his degree there. Once he was done with that, I got him a job with Freddie once the keyboard chair opened up. We were together in that band for quite some time.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN IN FREDDIE HUBBARD’S BAND. DARE I ASK?!?
I learned everything from him. As he would put it, it was like “you get your Bachelor’s in school; you get your Master’s with me!”
It was the traditional kind of apprenticeship situation, and Freddie had a few “different” personalities! (laughs) He was incredibly generous with his musical knowledge, going over things with the piano. If you were interested he’d show you how to put together things and what his way was of thinking about harmonic material. Everything from having him sitting with me and literally show things at the piano to all of the multitude of things that can come up at a gig.
The beauty of being in a band like Freddie’s, or with Miles or Joe Henderson kind of bands at the time, is that you get to literally play everything you’ve learned every night. You were required to be and play at a very high level to develop your instincts and intuition right on the spot. Right on the gig. Otherwise you were subject to dirty looks, and more.
It was a continuation of the things that stretched through Art Blakey and all of the great bandleaders that sadly a lot of younger players don’t have as a resource these days. A lot of those opportunities have gotten too few and far between.
AND YOU CAN HEAR IT
Yes, you can hear it in the players and you can hear it in the music. It’s sad, because I think that kind of apprenticeship by playing in bands like that, and playing under someone who is an undeniable master is invaluable. There is no way to quantify it in developing every aspect of your musicianship .
You also learn about life being with a guy like that on the road. Oh yeah!
I’ll tell you one story; my first gig was at the Village Gate in New York. I flew into New York; I’d never been to New York before, and I got into the hotel. I was sitting in my room and kind of thinking “OK, what am I going to do now?” and the phone rings. It was Freddie and he asked if I want to take a walk with him.
He realized how green I was, so he was kind enough to walk around with me a little bit. We go downstairs and get out on the street. At one of the first intersections the light turns green, and I start to step off the curb. He grabs me by the back of my coat and pulled me back as a taxi whizzed by.
So, the first thing he did was save my life. (laughs)
YOU THEN SHIFTED GEARS AND GOT A STEADY JOB IN THE STUDIOS AT THE MERV GRIFFIN TV SHOW
During the same time that I was playing with Freddie, I think he was in the process of taking some time off, I went out and auditioned to play with Carmen McRae and got that gig. I started playing with her for awhile. From that point on I was splitting my time between the two.
It got to be a few years where I was on the road quite a bit. There were two things going on inside of myself. One was that I was getting tired of travelling all the time, and the other was that I was tiring of a certain kind of narrowness that I found was endemic to the jazz world at that time.
It was this mentality of the beboppers versus the people who wanted to play something different and move things forward. You had all of these people coming down on Miles, Freddie and all of the people who were venturing into the electric world of things. They were saying “That’s not really jazz” and this mentality of the more notes you played, the better you were.
I began to get fatigued with the lay of the land of the jazz world at that time. As I always did, I was listening to pop music and all kinds of music, and I felt that there were some very interesting things going on at pop music at the time. So, I thought I’d be more well served to spend more time in town, get into recording work more, and learn about that facet of things.
I wanted to learn more about songwriting and what it takes to write a great song. I started sort of moving away from the jazz world in certain ways of my thinking, and became a bit oppressed where things were at in the jazz world.
At that point, a funny series of things happened. It was right at the time where the David Letterman Show became very hot. He had this young band; it was a whole different paradigm for the studio band on a talk show. Merv (Griffin) saw that and saw the writing on the wall. He wanted to change things up on his show.
At the time, he had a band that was composed of the greatest musicians in traditional jazz; Mundell Lowe, Ray Brown, Jack Sheldon, Nick Ceroli was on drums, Plas Johnson. The first guy that they let go was Ray Brown, so I found myself as a young bass player replacing Ray Brown!
HE MUST HAVE LOVED YOU
That was a somewhat humorous situation to me, because I of course learned to play bass by listening to Ray Brown, as did any other bass player that you’d talk to.
I came into that band, and as you can imagine, it was kind of a strange situation with all of these guys looking over and seeing this new young guy. But, it ended up being a great situation for me because I learned a lot. Keeping what happens in keeping those shows going on. You’re playing with great artists on day, and then comedians, jugglers or God knows what the next.
It enabled me to stay in town to pursue and develop the right path that laid ahead of me, which was doing studio work and honing my skills as a studio bass player.
So, I started doing a lot of record dates and started having stronger opinions of design and architecture in music and arrangements. That was where the seeds of producing records gestated, because as I started doing more studio work, I was able to discern that when I’d play on a tracking date, the track would sound amazing. But by the time the record would come out, I would think “What happened to this thing?!?” All of the beauty had been buried.
It really motivated me in my quest of trying to put all of the things that I was compelled by and interested in under one umbrella. I discerned that the way to do that was in the job of the record producer. That’s what I slowly started working towards doing, because it is a job that is so pliable from one instance to another. Sometimes it involves more songwriting and arranging, or maybe some bass playing or playing some other instrument.
I felt I was moving forward in a direction that was passionate and stimulating.
I’VE ALWAYS LINKED YOU IN THE GROUP OF ANTHONY WILSON AND LARRY GOLDINGS. YOU GUYS ARE ON ALL THESE ALBUMS WITH WOMEN AS THE LEADERS. LUCIANA SOUZA, LIZZ WRIGHT, MELODY GARDOT, MADELINE PEYROUX…WHAT’S WITH YOU GUYS?
There are a number of reasons. I’ve always felt that in certain ways (and this is certainly a statement that is the beginning of a long, long, conversation) women are smarter than men. And more interesting in a lot of ways.
Although it is a generality, why I felt that way is that a lot of the time there is an openness to presenting and revealing one’s vulnerable area and vulnerable sides that women have which men do not have. Or, as a generality they don’t have, as a lot of men have it to one degree or another, as a lot of the great singers and songwriters who are male do.
But women tend to be (and this is again a gross generality) more introspective.
EVEN THE MEN YOU WORK WITH ARE INTROSPECTIVE. YOU DON’T PICTURE PETER GABRIEL OR JD SOUTHER AS DEFENSIVE LINEMEN.
Right. Those guys are exceptions to what I’m saying, but they might agree with what I’m saying.
It’s also the nature of the world that we live in that people like to categorize everything and put things into a box of one kind.
Some of the first opportunities I got to produce records were with women. And, around that time Joni and I started working together, got into a relationship and got married and worked on a lot of music together.
I think that when you start working with a certain kind of artist, for whatever reasons, that person has a higher profile in your work, and there is a certain momentum that ensues. Then people start thinking of you as “a person who is good with female artists.”
In reality, all the way along I’ve worked with male artists.
YOU CHANGED JONI MITCHELL’S SOUND
She was ready for that to happen, of course. But, nothing happened with her without her wanting to go somewhere. My work with her was always of a collaborative nature; it was never like I swooped in and “I’m going to rework your music” or anything like that.
But this kind of thing is just part of the music business. I remember going to a manager that I had at the time for a certain number of years where this was the case. I said, “You know, they got me in this singer-songwriter box.” He kind of sat there, looked at me and said, “it’s not a bad box to be in!” (laughs)
And he was right. The box could have been “bands that have 2 guys that are heroin addicts.”
JONI’S MUSIC EVEN WON A GRAMMY FOR JAZZ RENDITIONS OF HER SONGS, WHICH YOU WORKED ON. ARE YOU SURPRISED HOW INFLUENTIAL HER MUSIC IS IN THE JAZZ REALM?
It doesn’t surprise me, because as a songwriter she works on a level that is very rare territory. I think of her, (Bob) Dylan and Leonard (Cohen). It’s so rare that these kinds of talents come along that go so far above and beyond what’s being done around them. They create a whole new high water mark for people to aspire to.
She was the embodiment of that. I learned so much from her in every sense and every area of songwriting and musical architecture.
When we started working together I was 25 or so. It was an incredible thing to be working with someone who had such a high level of sophistication in the way of putting music together and of course song writing and the analytical part of what made a great song.
HOW ARE THE DYNAMICS OF PRODUCING AN ALBUM FOR YOUR WIFE?
I think that the richness of it far outweighs the problematic aspect of it. Inevitably there are difficult areas and certain places where you encounter bumps in the road. But at the same time you are making something together that is really a product of a cooperative use of both of your creativities, and so the process of it is pretty stimulating and exciting as well.
Of course, once it’s done you both get to share the experience of getting something done; the pleasure and the pain of something you ‘ve done hitting the world. Inevitably some people are going to love it and some people are going to hate it and in between. It’s rich; I think it’s a great thing to be able to share that.
HAS BEING A FATHER CHANGED THE WAY THAT YOU PRODUCE AN ALBUM?
It’s changed certain things. What am I saying; being a father has changed EVERYTHING about me. Amongst those things is the way that I work and try to organize my life.
I used to be the type of person who ascribed to the sort of ”work till you drop” ethic as far as the duration of a work day. Now, I’ve got very important things that I need to do in the evening, so I try to work on a schedule. I try to start around 10 or so and hopefully finish up around dinner, or at least early enough so I can put my son to bed.
On some very tangible levels it changes you. One area it really changes you is that quite frequently I find myself writing with artists that I’m producing, and from a songwriting end I used to be able to finish working on a song or two with an artist, and then we’d sort of go our separate ways and I’d meander with it until the wee hours and try to find the seed of lyrics and come up with the center of the song.
Now, I find that it works better if I do a three way collaboration where we work cooperatively during the day and then I’ll get another writer involved in it. So, the other writer and artist will go off and do that thing that I used to do, and I’ll be able to concentrate on being present for my son and giving him some energy most days.
THAT REMINDS ME WHEN I’D BE WORKING ON SOMETHING AND MY YOUNG KIDS WOULD WANT SOMETHING. FIRST I’D GET IMPATIENT, BUT THEN I’D ASK MYSELF “WHICH IS THE REAL INTERRRUPTION? THE KIDS, INTERRUPTIN MY WORK, OR MY WORK INTERUPTING MY TIME WITH THE KIDS?” YOUR PRIORITIES CHANGE.
Yes, it’s an eternally hard thing to balance. I don’t think it ever really completely resolves itself. I’m always thinking, “Hmm. What should I be doing now? Where should my energy be going at this moment?” You are always weighing things and thinking “I’m trying to make this record, and my standards are high; I want it to be great.
But then I’m also participating in this creative endeavor called “parenthood” and in many ways is the most important thing.
IT’S YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PRODUCTION!
(laughs) In the end, I know for myself that giving him what he needs, and feeding his curiosity and his need for attachment, love and companionship; there’s nothing more important than that. It’s a changing puzzle where you always try to figure out where you are in the geography of the puzzle.
ANY PHILOSPHY’S OR RELIGIOUS BOOKS THAT INFLUENCE YOUR LIFE AS A WORKER, PARENT OR HUSBAND?
I’ve spent many years absorbing the Buddhist philosophy, and I’m Jewish. I’ve spent a lot of time absorbing all of the wisdom that philosophy.
AH! THE THERE’S THE JEWISH-CHINESE FOOD CONNECTION!
(laughs) That’s why we get Chinese take out on Christmas! Actually, I have to say that I just come across things here and there that thrill me. Those ideas that thrill me become the little repetitive mantra that I meditate on.
But it’s always oscillating, you know. For a little while earlier last year I was obsessed with peoples’ routines. How have other artists handled this juggling of the domestic and the creative pursuits? I started reading about everyone from Winston Churchill to W. H. Auden to anyone I could think of. That stimulated me.
But if I could distill it down to one quality that creates greatness in any kind of talent, especially musical talent, it’s curiosity.
That’s why you have people like Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter who occupy the Olympian Plains. There’s always something more to learn; I’m never satisfied.
YOU MIGHT NOT SEE HIM IN CONCERT VERY OFTEN ANYMORE, BUT HIS PRESENCE IS FELT IN THE ARTISTS THAT HE TOUCHES.
ONE OF THE QUOTES ON PRESIDENT HARRY TRUMAN’S DESK WAS “IT’S AMAZING WHAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH IF YOU DO NOT CARE WHO GETS THE CREDIT.” LARRY KLEIN HAS SPENT HIS CAREER MAKING OTHER ARTISTS ACHIEVE GREATNESS BY BEING A SERVANT TO THEM, SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN TAUGHT FOR YEARS. BEING GREATEST ALWAYS MEANS BEING A SERVANT, AND IN THIS DAY OF EVERYONE VYING FOR ATTENTION, IT’S REFRESHING TO SEE THAT THERE ARE STILL ARTISTS WHO EXCELL IN MAKING OTHERS EXCELL.