Is he a pianist? Composer? Musical historian? Most likely Randy Weston is a mix of all three. His latest album, a collection of duets with tenor saxist Billy Harper summarizes Weston’s career in its title, The Roots of the Blues. Weston, who has voraciously studied about Africa as well as visiting it numerous times (along with living there for a spell), recently toured with Harper to not only promote the album, but to continue his promotion and education of the fact that that America needs to appreciate where so much of its rich cultural history comes from, which is Africa, and where the culture of Africa comes from, which is Nature, and as our constitution says “Nature’s God.”
We recently caught up with the joyful octogenarian. In fact, his demeanor is infectious, as you can observe during the interview where he spontaneously bursts into laughter over many of the topics and artists.
DURING YOUR SHOWS, YOU LIKE TO GIVE A BIT OF A HISTORY LESSON OR EXPLANATION FOR EACH SONG. WHY IS THAT?
Because if you really want to know about a subject, and you know the history of the subject, you get a better feeling for the subject. And the subject of this music is so complex, so diverse and from all over the states…New Orleans, Chicago, Brooklyn, Harlem…so to understand its history it takes a lot of studying and research and understanding of this music itself. What is music, and what impact has it had on our lives? That’s what I try to do; I’ve been playing music for a long time, and I’m still trying to figure out Ellington and Louis Armstrong and all of those people who played in the ‘20s and ‘30s and how they created this music.
YOU TALK ABOUT THE ROOTS OF JAZZ, BUT ON YOUR LATEST ALBUM (THE ROOTS OF THE BLUES WITH BILLY HARPER) YOU GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING, WITH THE CHURCH AND AFRICA, AND ULTIMATELY ALL THE WAY BACK TO GOD.
Well, everybody knows that civilization began in Africa. The continent itself is the richest place on the planet. Let’s go back before man ever even arrived. This particular continent has been chosen by our Creator…and on this continent you have the most diverse of species on the planet. Mammals, birds, geography, fish, you name it. It’s the richest place on the planet! So, this music began there; ancient people said it came from the universe, because is all music, and each planet has its own sound. Each planet has its own rhythm, and everything in the universe is rhythm and sound. So music is just a ministering example of Mother Nature. So, when you go to Africa and you start studying about or reading about ancient civilizations and how the ancient Egyptians for example created magnificent instruments of art, whether it was a drum, harp or stringed instrument, everything was artistic.
Then, they say that early man and early woman listened to Mother Nature, and that’s how music began. The listened to the sound of the thunder, the wind, the insects and the birds; all the creatures in Africa that I’ve seen all swing! (Laughs)Whether it was an elephant,tiger or bird, they all had the rhythm of the continent itself.
YOUR LATEST RELEASE HAS THAT SONG “BLUES TO AFRICA” WHICH RECREATES THE LUMBER AND SWAY OF AN ELEPHANT
Yes, because for us to go ahead musically, we have to first go back. In Western Civilization, we get a little carried away with ourselves; with all of this technology we think we know everything. But, when you go back to the ancient times, and the creation of music, how music was used for healing. How music was used for harvest or a baby being born. Our music came from ancestors listening to things like the sound of the wind. And, to gives you a better understanding of not only music, but of life on this planet itself, you see.
WHY DO YOU THINK AMERICAN MUSIC STARTED IN THE CHURCH?
It was the only place where African people could congregate. It was the time of slavery; they couldn’t trust them anywhere else as there was too much revolution going on! In the church people could be more controlled, because they knew the African people were in love with their Creator, no matter what the religion was. They are always linked up with God. That’s why the church was so important. It’s still that way when you go into the black church in Africa. You can feel God there.
What American people don’t realize is that America is just a baby! We’re still young in comparison to other civilizations, and what we have has come from other civilizations, but unfortunately Africa never gets the credit.
IN FACT, OUR COUNTRY HASN’T EVEN LASTED AS LONG AS THE MALIAN EMPIRE OF THE 1200s TO 1600. IT CAME AND WENT!
But you have nothing of it in textbooks. Nothing in Hollywood. You never see anything about ancient African civilizations, which was a base of powerful spirituality. When you meet with the traditional people today, and I’ve been in 18 countries in Africa, I try to meet the oldest people that I can find, and the oldest music that I can listen to. All of their music is in connection with nature. It’s all very spiritual where it all comes from.
So, even with me, I read every day, and I still know very little about Africa. Even though I’ve lived there for years, because it’s based upon a different rhythm than mine. It’s more spiritual, and the music describes the continent. It’s different than any other place on the planet. Whether you go to North Africa, or West, East or South Africa, you’re going to hear variations of it, but you’re going to hear that everything is swingin’, cause the whole continent swings!
WHEN YOU GREW UP, WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST EXPOSURE TO JAZZ?
Oh, my mom and pop! They were the examples. They brought all kinds of music into the house, and they never said a word. It could be Jimmie Lunceford, it could be Billie Holiday, it could be Louis Armstrong, it could be an opera, it could be spirituals, but that’s how we grew up. That’s because our mothers and fathers grew up in a multicultural generation. As children we were exposed to the whole range; the black church on Sunday, the blues on the corner, the big band rehearsals, the singers, and the whole scene. Because of segregation everything had to be within the African-American community, so we had our own complete way of life, which comes out in the music, the way we talk, and the way we cook, etc.
But the whole point is that America is a great country. America is Europe and Asia, but Africa is still left out in terms of recognizing its contributions.
IT AMAZES ME THAT HERE IN LA, MOST OF THE AUDIENCES ARE WHITE AND NOT BLACK.
But we’re all from Africa! All of the people in the planet, man! We’re all from the same camp! African people migrated and came north to Europe and Mother Nature changed them because white skin is good for cold weather. The skin of Africans is good for hot weather. Mother Nature makes all of the arrangements, and that’s why I try to bring people back to nature through my music. Music is a way that we can all sit together whether you’re fat, skinny, white, black and whatever. We can all sit together at a concert and feel the music. Because, that was our first language.
YOU HAD THELONIOUS MONK AS YOUR TEACHER FOR AWHILE. DID YOU HEAR HIS MUSIC BEFORE YOU WERE HIS STUDENT?
I heard him first, with Coleman Hawkins. See, Coleman Hawkins was my idol. When he did “Body and Soul” in 1939, this music was so beautiful that I got an advance from my father and bought three copies of it. I hid two of them and played one.
Because of Coleman Hawkins I discovered Fletcher Henderson, and then went all the way to Dizzy and Monk and Miles. Hawkins was playing on 52nd Street, and he’d always play with the younger guys, playing this music they called “bebop.” So, the first time I heard Monk was with Hawkins. This was around ‘48 or ’49.
WHAT IMPRESSED YOU ABOUT HAWKINS?
His sound. His sound. He was so inventive because Hawkins was such a master, up until even this minute! He would play a ballad and not even play the melody, but you can hear the melody, and that’s what separates the royalty from the rest of us! (laughs)Plus, whatever happens, any new music that would come along, whether it was bebop or hard bop or free…I heard Hank Jones, with Coleman Hawkins. Sir Charles Thompson with Coleman Hawkins. Monk…Coleman Hawkins. And, the great thing about him that I loved was when Max Roach did his famous recording in 1960 We Insist, and when Monk did a hard bop date, they both hired Coleman Hawkins.
They now call this music “old.” But, somebody once asked me, “You’ve had a chance to play with everyone. Who would you love to play with?” I told him, “I’d love to play with Louis Armtrong.” He said, “What?” Yes, because I love “sound.” That’s why I love Billy Harper; I love his sound. Coleman Hawkins had a sound. It’s all just so beautiful. Nobody could have a sound like Louis Armstrong. Nobody. I would have love to have played with Louis.
WHEN YOU HAD LESSONS FROM MONK, WHAT DID YOU LEARN?
From Monk, I better understood Ellington, though it’s funny to say that. It’s because Ellington played in colors; his piano was an orchestra. He played with colors, and he always had a powerful blues tradition. Duke could write for the Queen of England, he could write for the Empress of China, but you could always hear the blues underneath. He also had great pride in African American people. Many of his songs were about African Americans. “Black, Brown and Beige.” “Black and Tan Fantasy.”
PORTRAIT OF BERT WILLIAMS
“Petite Fleur.” “Portrait of The Lion.” On and on. And, he recorded with Louis Armstrong and John Coltrane, and Coleman Hawkins and Dizzy Gillespie and Jimmy Rushing! I could go on and on and on. He covered it all and taught us that nothing is “old” music. What those guys were doing then in the 20s and 30s was very advanced music, so we need to stop and listen to it.
Back in 1928 Duke was playing a stride piano that blows my mind. But, getting back to Monk…with Monk I heard the magic of the universe in his piano. He had a sound. All of the masters have a sound. Count Basie or Art Tatum, Ellington or Errol Garner; all of these guys that have a royal touch on music have a sound that makes them different. You’ve got a lot of guys that can play music today. A lot of good musicians. But, they don’t have an original sound. You can’t go to school for that. It’s either passed down to your, or you hung out with the right people and absorb that sound. Or your own sound, if you want to put it that way.
JUST LISTEN TO COUNT BASIE ON “EASY DOES IT.”
Oh my! (Laughs) Oh man! Those guys back then may have a break of just two bars. Look at “One O’Clock Jump” with Lester Young. That’s one of the most classic solos of ANY kind of music. That’s why he was so great; Lester would always ask “What’s your story?”. With them, when they were playing the music, they were telling the story of African American life. How they saw it and how they felt it. Whether it was in New Orleans or Chicago or Los Angeles. And, when you go back, and back, you say, “Wait a minute. Who was Louis Armstrong’s grandfather? Who was his grandmother? What part of Africa did he come from? What combination of people could produce a Louis Armstrong, to take a European instrument and get that kind of sound?” And you go back and back until you discover that you don’t know anything! (Laughs)Looking at Africa becomes very humbling.
SPEAKING OF HAWKINS, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR GIG WITH HAWKINS AT THE FIVE SPOT WITH KENNY DORHAM
Oh, that was my dream. OOOHHH! It was a real opportunityI wanted to do that Freedom Africa Suite (in 1960), but they weren’t ready for that, but they said I could do a small group, and my idol was Coleman Hawkins, and I loved Kenny Dorham. I loved Roy Haynes, and Wilbur Ware was already playing with me. I was so thrilled. I just listened to that recording yesterday, and Coleman Hawkins doesn’t repeat anything on any of his solos! And we had no rehearsals, because (arranger) Melba Liston was sick in California. The arrangements arrived the day of the concert, but it wasn’t even a concert, it was just at the Five Spot Café. So people were in the club when I passed out the music. Oh, my goodness! That’s why I’m in love with the elders and ancestors. Boy!
ANOTHER GUY WHO’S IGNORED THESE DAYS IS CECIL PAYNE, AND YOU SPENT SOME TIME WITH HIM
Oh, Cecil! I was a big fan! I would look in the papers, and anytime I’d see his name, I ‘d go to see him. And I knew him well because my dad had a barbershop, his dad had a tailor shop and we shared the same bathroom. So we had some long roots, you know.
YOU WEREN’T THE ONLY ONE DOING AFRICAN MUSIC AT THE TIME OF THE EARLY 60s, WERE YOU?
I wasn’t the first. It was the time of African independence. There were a number of composers that were writing about it in different ways. Max Roach, Oliver Nelson, John Coltrane and Sonny Rollins. A number of our generation who were conscious of the importance of Africa. In 1960, when we did “Uhuru”. 17 countries got their independence. It was in the air. Civil rights movements extended to Africa and Asia. It was part of that period, so the music was everywhere.
TALKING ABOUT TRIBUTES TO ANCESTORS, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WORK ON JAMES REESE EUROPE, WHO’S BEEN OVERLOOKED FOR DECADES. ALSO, TELL ME WHAT HE MEANS TO YOU.
Perhaps the greatest musician ever in our history has been completely left out of our history books. This is what is so painful. I found out about this man through Lucky Robins, the great pianist. I was about 17 years old. In those days I’d take the train, and wherever there was music, we would go. How I got to Lucky’s club that time, I don’t know. But when I got there, he said to me, “We old timers let you young people down.” This was in the late 40s. I asked him why he said that. He said “When James Reese Europe died, we died and never recovered.”
When he said those words to me, I did some research on James Reese Europe. I went to France; I went to places where they performed during the first World War. I’m an Consel-ambassador for the 369th up in Harlem where they still have photographs, sheet music and what not. What this man accomplished in that time was just unbelievable. It makes me very humble. Because, in those days, a musician didn’t just “play music.” They were organizers, promoters and publicists; they did things other than just play the music. He was the first one to put out music on that higher level of being important music.
He served in the first World War. They fought against the Germans. They were the first ones to cross the Rheine, the 369th. They fought them in the first days of machine guns. They were decorated by the French army; they had to wear French uniforms. He first performed in Carnegie Hall in 1913 with 150 musicians and 10 pianos. After James Reese Europe, what happened to us? (laughs) We’re lightweights today!
So I felt I had to do some music of that period, so I wrote some music. The only non-original is “Memphis Blues.” For the other songs I tried to capture that 1912-1913 sound. I used tuba, banjo, sax and trombone and what not. That’s it.
THEN, YOU HAVE YOUR OTHER TWO PORTRAITS. DUKE AND MONK, BACK IN THE 80s. AS WELL AS YOUR OWN PORTRAIT.
Yes, those were the first recordings I did for Verve, back in Paris. There was a good friend of mine, Jean-Phillippe Allard, who was the director with Verve at that particular time along with Jacques Muriel…it was Jacque’s idea at the time. He loved that music with a passion. He wanted me to do three recordings; one of Monk, one of Duke and one of myself. It was my first time ever to record for Verve. The way it turned out, they had a low budget, so we had to do three cds in three days!
So, for each session I put Monk’s picture on the wall and lit some incense to get some atmosphere, and I talked to the guys, (drummer) Idris Muhammed and (bassist) Jamil Nasser and (percussionist) Eric Asante who’s from Ghana, and we just told stories about Monk. We did the same thing with Duke, when we did Duke’s music the next day. I put Duke’s picture on the wall in the studio, lit some incense and had everyone one tell Duke Ellington stories! And then we recorded. The last day was my own music, and everyone already knew me! (laughs)
I REMEMBER YOU ONCE SAID YOU START THE DAY LISTENING TO ART TATUM. DO YOU STILL DO THAT?
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh! But not all of the time because it can be rather intimidating sometimes. Sometimes you want a good shock in the morning to make you move, and he can carry you away! (laughs)This man can put you to tears!!
I saw him play at 52nd Street. That was the great thing about New York and my parents being totally into the music. They’d take us to the Apollo Theatre; wherever music was, we would go. That was our tradition; not just our family but I was like that in the neighborhood. Everybody was into music, you know.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE PRESENT JAZZ SCENE?
It’s a reflection of today’s world. Technology, computers, cell phones, so most things are fast tempo, so most things are a lot of notes. I’m generalizing of course. There are some excellent musicians out here. But, music describes the period that we’re in. What music is happening now, whether it’s pop music or what have you, it describes life today. But, life before was more rich because we had to be more in tune with nature. We had no TV to look at; we had no cell phone to walk around with. We’d touch each other, we looked at each other; we argued with each other. There was more human contact; we listened to the birds when they sang. That’s the difference and why the music sounds like it does today.
SO, WHAT WOULD YOU TELL A YOUNGSTER LIKE ME?
Get into your heritage. Get into the history of this music, man! Listen to that music from 1910-1920. Listen, and you’ll see that there’s no such thing as “modern” music.
When you do talk about modern music, Louis Armstrong is Number One. Those people took instruments, and took the European musical language and put the African pulse and spirituality into it. And the further you go back..I’m reading about guys that played the wash basin, and had a home made bass…those are my heroes. And, when you do that, it doesn’t matter what kind of music you’re playing. It just gives you a better foundation and understanding of music, as most people don’t realize that music began in Africa. They only hear the European influence, but don’t understand where it first comes from unless you go back, you go back and you go back. And then you go, “Wow.” And I’m still discovering something new every day about this music.
AND THE FURTHER YOU GO BACK, YOU GET TO THE FIRST VERSE IN THE BIBLE “IN THE BEGINNING GOD”
Exactly. And so we’re all one people (from God). And Mother Nature is a great painter. He painted us different colors!
WHAT ARE YOUR FUTURE GOALS?
I’m working on a new Suite of Seven African Queens. I’ve discovered a fantastic book which talks about 20 or so African queens and what they did. Drawings and photographs and their histories; how some were warriors and others were stateswomen and intellectuals. Africa has had more queens than any other civilization. The Queen of Sheba is one of them. So, I’m doing seven of them right now.
WHAT WILL BE YOUR LEGACY?
I want everyone to realized their heritage, and that it all comes from Africa. I want people to realize how much she’s given the world. Whether it’s Cuba, Brazil, Venezuela or Jamaica…wherever our people have been taken, people discover all of our beautiful music and where it’s been taken from.
As with the case of the book and movie Goodbye Mr. Chips, it’s easy to take a great educator for granted until he’s left us. All of us have a limited time on this planet, so if you want to sit at the feet of one of the last masters of jazz, you’d better hurry. Take in this album, take in the roots, and take in the Root of the roots, as “everything good comes from God above.”