What is the line between music that is commercial and merely accessible. When is jazz “smooth” and when is it “smooth jazz?” There are a couple of ways to tell where an artist’s head is at: Look at his past, and look at his present. The career of bassist Brian Bromberg (say THAT 5 times real fast) is as mainstream and bona fide as you could wish for: stints with Stan Getz, Horace Silver and Freddy Hubbard. Likewise, he’s also received a ton of airplay on the Smooth Jazz circuit with his own albums like Basses Loaded and A New Day. Just this year alone, he’s released in the States a hat trick of completely different sounding albums, a straightahead cooker (Compared to That), a bossa nova percolator (In The Spirit of Jobim) and a thunderous rocker (Bromberg Plays Hendrix), with something for every palate and taste.
On the throes of these three releases, we decided to catch up with the Valley’s busiest bassist, and get his thoughts on the history, present state, and future of jazz.
YOU WERE THERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CURRENT SMOOTH JAZZ SCENE. HOW DID IT ALL TAKE PLACE, AND HOW DO YOU FIT INTO THESE TWO WORLDS OF “SMOOTH” AND “REGULAR” JAZZ?
You know, it all started with fusion. Back in the day, look at what Miles and Mahavishnu Orchestra did, along with Cobham and Return to Forever and all of that stuff. It was when jazz and rock started blending into what we then called fusion. As fusion did its thing, it became all about virtuosity and vibe. Then, it started getting, I’d have to say, “accessible,” as for some people fusion got too intense and crazy for them. Then, it started getting a little more musically accessible to masses of people which means a little more simplicity, and still with jazz improvisation overtones and leanings, but with a more contemporary and rock vibe, then later adding a funk vibe and things got a little more melodic and finally it became contemporary jazz. Then, contemporary jazz morphed into what somebody in the radio business called “smooth jazz,” and that’s just the term that they came up with. That’s what happened: it just evolved over a period of time. For me, I like it all, because there’s only two kinds of music in the world: music that’s played well and music that’s not played well.
I’m kind of the anomaly in the sense that I don’t have the kind of judgment that a lot of jazz musicians have, about, “If it ain’t swinging, if it ain’t Duke Ellington, if it ain’t Charlie Parker, it’s not real jazz.” What’s real? Real is playing to the best of your abilities from your heart. You can’t get any more real than that. It’s like, you’re going to tell me that Johnny Cash or Willie Nelson aren’t real? Bonnie Raitt and Pavarotti aren’t real? These people do what’s real to them, so it’s very subjective. Good music is good music; I don’t care what style it is. That’s how I ended up morphing into all of these different things and doing all of them.
SO, DO YOU STILL FIND YOURSELF IN THE SMOOTH JAZZ SCENE?
It’s not that I don’t do it anymore, it’s just that my goal in life was not “Wow, I want to be a smooth jazz musician.” I didn’t practice 5-8 hours a day to be a smooth jazz musician. And, it’s not that I don’t like smooth jazz. Good music is good music. Some of the best stuff and some of the worse stuff I’ve ever heard was smooth jazz. But, we are in a business, radio is a business. Radio is a format. So, if you’re in a format you have to gear your music towards a specific style. I would say that even in the height of success that I’ve had with smooth jazz, and I’ve been blessed with hits, I was never a “smooth jazz artist.” I would record music that had had smooth jazz sensibilities, but I still approach it as a jazz musician; I improvise everything. I still blow and still do what I do. I’ve never made a pure smooth jazz record.
The closest I’ve ever come to that was a cd I did called Choices (in 2004) which I’m very proud of. I love the music I did on it. But, even that I wouldn’t call a straight up and smooth jazz, as it has so many different vibes on it. I call it “smooth jazz accessible;” if I can do music that is melodic enough, and has a good feel, that smooth jazz stations will play it, and that audience will enjoy it, that’s awesome because that means I’m reaching a whole new group of people who normally don’t know what I do, without necessarily caving into a one dimensional format.
IT’S SIMILAR TO BACK IN THE SWING ERA, WHERE YOU HAD “HOT BANDS” AND “SWEET BANDS.”
Of course, and the judgment between the two was no different than the feud between Kenny G and Pat Metheny, or Wynton Marsalis and the Rippingtons. It’s like a religion, “It’s our way or no way.” Music isn’t black and white, it’s grey, and we live in grey. I love the fact that I’m blessed enough to play music in different formats and styles. What people want to categorize it as is up to them. I don’t think of it that way or like it that way. If I write something, it just happens; it might be this style or that style. I don’t sit back and think, “I think I’m going to write a smooth jazz tune.” I just write music, it shows up and happens. It’s an interesting place to be
I’ll tell you this much; had I been more one dimensional, regardless of which dimension that I chose, I would be more successful in my career. Any time you have a sound that instantaneously identifies you, those type of people gravitate to it. Kenny G is a perfect point. Look at the incredibly successful career that he’s had. Why? Everything sounds like Kenny G. He has a sound. He has a vibe. If you liked that sound, and obviously tens of millions of people did, then it’s an instantaneous identity. I could play you tracks of five of my different records, and you would think that it’s five different artists. For me, it’s like a blessing and a curse; if I had just focused on one thing and played only one bass, I would have a large fan base in that one world, but I would go crazy because I can’t stand doing the same thing over and over again.
YOU TOURED WITH GETZ A LONG TIME AGO WHEN YOUR CAREER WAS JUST STARTING
I was with him for a year in 1980; it was my first big break when I was a kid. Years later, he back came to LA, and we played the Wiltern Theatre, not too long before he passed away. That was the last time I saw him and played with him.
He found me through John Guerin the drummer who played together a lot with me. It was a lot of fun. John was doing some stuff with Stan, and recommended me to him. So, I got the gig, and it was really a trip to play with him after all of these years. During the sound check for that last gig years later, he turned to me and he said, “If you hadn’t quit my band, you’d be a star by now.” I just said, “Well , if you had treated me with respect, I wouldn’t have quit.” That was it, and I don’t think we said a word the rest of gig. But, he was still an amazing musician.
WHEN YOU’RE WITH THESE GUYS LIKE GETZ, HUBBARD OR SILVER, DO YOU LEARN THINGS FROM THEM, OR DO YOU JUST THINK, “I’M HERE FOR THE GIG AND PAYCHECK,.”
Look, these are the best of the best of the best! Freddie Hubbard and I had a warm and friendly relationship. We played on several records together. As far as I’m concerned, he had the sound, he had the attitude…truly one of the greatest musicians ever to play on ANYTHING. How can you not learn when you play with people like that? How can you not learn when everytime…I don’t care if it was something 30 years ago or whenever…you hear something played that well. Those guys are the masters Everyone else plays underneath them. When you listen to those people throughout your entire life, and you realize “that’s why I wanted to do this.” That level of artistry and ownership of your instrument and that level of musical expertise, and their ability to communicate through their instrument to that level is why you do what you do. There are just so few people that will reach that level; unfortunately so many of those people have now left us. We have no choice but to listen to them because it’s not being created now.
That doesn’t mean that there aren’t any brilliant players now. I don’t mean it that way. In fact, there are probably more “better” players walking the planet now than now than at any time now than ever, because there’s so much accessibility to YouTube and I Tunes and all that music that you can get. You get kids now days that are just unbelievable. I think that the average level of musicianship in a way globally is higher than ever before, but the masters and the people who actually created it are going away, and I don’t know if there are new people that are doing it. At least not to the degree of those guys, because those guys were the first, when the music was new, and it’s not new anymore. It’s like witnessing a part of history that’s never going to happen again. Because of that, all of those guys were the innovators. Where are the innovators now that there were in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s? If you think about it, we’re in a different place.
WHEN I WAS A KID, I KNEW I HAD TO SEE EARL HINES, BENNY GOODMAN, LOCKJAW DAVIS, OR RUSSELL PROCOPE IF THEY CAME TO TOWN, AS THIS MIGHT BE MY ONLY CHANCE TO SEE THEM
That’s the thing. Those were the guys who created it. It’s like my buddy Ray Brown, and people like that. They guys who created this stuff are now gone, that ‘s it, and it’s over. So, what do you do next? There are so many guys that created this kind of music, and I was fortunate enough to see Miles. To SEE Miles. I got a chance to see and experience the vibe of a guy playing at that level. There are guys that who’s presence on stage is just larger than life, and those are the people that you need to experience as they’re the ones who created everything that we try to emulate and become.
HOW ABOUT THOSE GUYS THAT YOU PLAYED WITH THAT “SHOULDA” MADE IT? LIKE JOE FARREL: YOU PLAYED ON HIS LAST SESSION
He was on my first record. Joe and I did a bunch of stuff together. Joe was incredible, but he didn’t make it because he was a drug addict. He was self destructive and irresponsible. And, the sad thing is, if Freddy Hubbard had taken care of himself, he would have been in a different place. These guys have their demons. Look at Michael Brecker; he had his demons. How many of these guys were drug addicts? How many of them were heroin addicts and self destructive? Look at Jaco, and guys that were so unbelievable and left us too soon. Sure, Michael had a disease, but would he have got that disease if he hadn’t abused his body for most of his life? You don’t know these things, but the thing is if Joe had not been a drug addict maybe he’d still be here. That’s the thing. So, when somebody comes along in life and says something…Jimi Hendrix was the same way…just come and change the world. If you have the ability to see them, go do it because you may never get the chance again. The point is, where are the artists of that level now?
WHAT’S THIS ALL ABOUT 3 RELEASES AT ONCE! WERE YOU ON COFFEE INJECTIONS OR SOMETHING?
I do like coffee! We’ve been talking about opportunities, and it’s not every day that you get an opportunity to put out three really strong records that you believe in that are kind of all drastically and stylistically opposed, and put them out on a substantial label that supports you. That’s like a dream come true. I’ve been making records since I started my first one at 24. My first record came out when I was 26, and I’m 51, so I’ve been making records for more than half of my life. I’ve never had an opportunity like this before, so it’s truly amazing.
The way that it came about is that I’ve been very fortunate I was able to develop a very healthy relationship with King Records in Japan. There was a time when I had no record deals in the States, and in Japan, there was this guy from King Records, Susumu Morikawa, was like an angel who came out of the blue. He wanted me to be involved on some of his projects. The first one we did was a trio cd called Wood (2002). Through him I became very popular in Japan, and I got to record on a lot of records and opportunities that I normally wouldn’t have been able to do. So, when the deal with Mack Avenue and Artistry Records came up, I had a bunch of catalogue that I had control of that I had never released in the US. What happened was that I was one of the original owners of Artistry and Mack Avenue bought us. That’s how it all came about.
The fact is that I am on the label to make jazz records, but I’ve got all of these other titles that have never been released. We worked out a deal where we remixed some things, re-cut some stuff, added some things, and remastered the Jimi Hendrix and Jobim records and put them all out within a month to get the marketing machine and their machine going and make the opportunity to do something that most artists in their careers will never have the opportunity to do. I’m really thankful for Mack Avenue and Artistry records to give me the ability to get these three records out within a month and make some noise. And, what’s really cool about them is that they are all drastically different, and I love that. This is why it works; they really don’t compete against each other. They all have the jazz sensibility; certainly the Jobim record is still a jazz record, but with the Brazilian thing. It’s with a whole orchestra. The Hendrix record is “The Hendrix Record” and it stands on its own. It’s unique, but the blowing is still with jazz sensibilities, though it’s much more an instrumental rock record than a jazz record. So, I’m not going to be competing with the same listener or the same airplay with that as I am with the Jobim album. So, it’s kind of a cool situation in that they don’t fight each other as much as they complement each other.
SO, WHEN YOU APPROACHED DRUMMER VINNIE COLAIUTA WITH “HEY, YOU WANT TO PLAY DRUMS FOR 50 OVER DUBBED BASSES,” WHAT DID HE SAY?
Well, Vinnie and I are tight: he’s been to my studio more than any other drummer in the world. I use Vinnie on a lot of stuff. Because of the nature of the record, it was like, “Hey, man, I’m doing this Hendrix thing. I really want you to play on it.” And it’s done, just like that. The thing about the record that I’m most proud of is that it doesn’t sound like a “bass record.” It’s about music. It sounds like a band. It sounds real. From Vinnie’s perspective of playing that, it’s not like he’s playing with a bass demo at the NAMM Show, or with a guy who is vertically stacking basses. It sounds like music. For him, it’s no different if it was for a guitar player or a singer or whatever. The form of the songs is about the music, not about the basses, even though it’s “just me.” It was a blast for him, cause, they’re Hendrix tunes, man!
THIS BRINGS UP ANOTHER ASPECT OF YOUR CAREER. YOU’VE MADE A LIVING IN THE STUDIO. DO YOU THINK THAT BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY, STUDIO MUSICIANS ARE SOON GOING TO BE A THING OF THE PAST?
I don’t know if studio guys will be a thing of the past. It’s a situation that the industry is just changing so much that there are many fewer session than before. One of the reasons is because the budgets are gone. Many record companies are gone. Most radio stations have changed formats. There are no record stores anymore. It’s a very tough time for the music industry as an industry. But also, because of the technology, samples have gotten so good that most people cannot tell if it’s real or not. Because of that, a lot of people are not using live musicians. So many TV shows, because they don’t have the budgets to cut music every week, will have one dude at a keyboard and a computer, and maybe he’ll hire a sax player or guitar player. Everything else is fake, but it sounds incredibly real; you can’t tell.
It’s like all of this happening at once. The industry is changing, the economy is changing, the radio business is changing, the record companies, studios and the sessions are all evolving at the same time, and we’re all scratching our heads trying to figure out how we’re going to survive this. What we used to do we can’t do anymore. Guys that were doing sessions all of the time are not doing it all the time anymore, so you have to find a way to reinvent yourself, cause it’s a weird time in this business. That’s REAL improvisation. Like, “How well can you dance, man?” with the bullets shooting at your feet!
THE THING ABOUT YOUR LATEST JAZZ AND JOBIM ALBUMS, IS THAT THEY BOTH LIKE THOSE CLASSIC OLD FANTASY RECORDS, WHERE YOU’D HEAR IT, AND IT JUST SOUNDS “LIVE” AND SO EASY TO DO. SO FEW RECORDS HAVE THAT FUN FEEL ANYMORE.
It’s funny that you bring that up. You hit it on the head, as there’s a certain vibe of the Fantasy and CTI days, and those kinds of records that had a sheen on them that sounded like themselves. There was something about it. It sounds relaxed and completely unpretentious. It’s just nice music done a nice way. There’s nothing on that record that’s rocket science, there’s nothing on that record that’s “Oh My! What a wonderful composition and incredibly complex arrangement and this ridiculuous this and this and this.” I don’t do that. I try to play to the best of my abilities, make the arrangements interesting, and try to make it so secretaries and doctors to like this music as much as hard core musicians to like it. It’s about the vibe of the music and about the spirit of it. That’s why it’s called The Spirit of Jobim. It’s about the spirit of how that makes you feel. Jobim’s music makes you feel good. The Fantasy stuff was about feeling good because of how good they did what they did. CTI was the same thing and vibe: it was about the music done at the highest level, but it wasn’t myopic intellectual music. It was hip.
YOU COULD EVEN BUY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ALBUM COVERS BACK THEN. THEY WERE THAT COOL
It was a vibe, and that’s what I wanted to come across on those albums
I was just trying to capture the energy. There’s one more thing I want to say about that. Understand that, back in the day, that kind of stuff was new. It’s not new now. One of the problems now is that since 15-20 years ago we got all of these young musicians all of a sudden wearing suits and ties, trying to sound like the guys in the 60s.
NOT TO MENTION ANY NAMES, OF COURSE!
Yeah. It’s no different than the retro movement in rock. But it’s like, “Wait a minute, guys. It’s already happened.” And when it happened it was organic. It’s like these guys that say, “We’re going to make it sound like it was recorded in the 50s or 60s.” What I say to them is that, “Don’t you realize that when those guys went into the studios back then, everything they used back then was to them the state of the art?” No one back then thought “Hey, let’s make it sound like it was recorded in the ‘20s.” You just don’t do that! They’re trying to artificially create something to pay homage to something. It’s all right to pay homage to something, but you should do it organically. But when this stuff happened when it did, it was done organically. That’s why it raised the bar and it lasted. When you try to replicate something that happened on its own, it’s impossible. So why try!
IT’S LIKE CHARLES SPURGEON USED TO SAY, “WHEN YOU SEE A WAGON DRIVE BY, YOU’D SEE DUST IN THE ROAD, BUT SOME PEOPLE TRY TO REPLICATE THE JOB OF THE WAGON BY THROWING SOME DUST AROUND IN THE AIR. “
It’s exactly right. So, what they’re trying to do is to artificially create something that was totally innovative and cool for the time. But those people that were innovative at the time weren’t going back to some golden era. It WAS the state of the art. Whatever happened to the evolution of music, people growing and pushing the sound to make it sound as good as possible? Who’s the new monster? Forget the old monster? Who’s the new guy who’s freaking everybody out? Where’s the new style of music that’s coming out? Create it, don’t replicate it!
WHAT DO YOU DO FOR INSPIRATION? READ SOMETHING? GO TO SERVICES?
Without getting too Zen, my inspiration comes from the fact that I just feel like I’ve been given a gift, and I need to honor that gift. Everything in life to me is an inspiration, and everything I do, I look around and realize that I’m a part of something bigger than myself in what I do and who I am. How can it not leave you dumbfounded? Between just all of it, you can get inspiration from life itself, without me getting too vague about it. I have other interests outside of music, obviously, but it manifests in music. It’s a situation that I keep trying to tap into the well, and there’s always water in it somewhere. I find myself able to keep recording all of this music. I’ve been putting out a lot of albums the past few years in Japan and here, and the music has to be coming from somewhere. I’m blessing the gift, it’s showing up, and I’m grateful, because who knows if it’s going to show up tomorrow. It’s trying to look at the big picture and trying to honor why we are all here.
If you read back on this interview, you can tell that even when he speaks, Brian Bromberg has the soul of a bassist. Notice his cadence, and how he repeats a verbal riff, as if he were playing a deep groove. Other times he builds up in the dynamic intensity, only to release his phrase and let it go into a gentle rubatto. This is the sign of a man who IS what he does. As for each of us in our own little niches of employment or vocation, we should ask ourselves if likewise, do we exude our essence in all that we do? Bromberg’s use of the bass in a plethora of settings serves as an inspiration to use our own voice, and our own talents, as a thank you to God for the gifts we’ve been given. Use them wisely, and check out Bromberg’s discs and gigs for further motivation.