@Poncho Sanchez

A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH PONCHO SANCHEZ


Is there a more recognizable figure in Latin jazz than Poncho Sanchez. Most people just know him as Poncho. But he is that kind of guy, grounded and devoted to his community and his culture. He is taking Latin jazz into the twenty-first century. So if you see a bearded conguero on the bandstand with his trademark Kangol, that is Poncho. Say hello. I have spoken to Poncho half a dozen times and he a damn good interview every time. This is a candid one on one with Poncho, unedited and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: Let's start from the beginning.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: I first got started in music as a young boy and just playing the guitar. The guy across the street had a rhythm and blues band and soul band and I used to watch him through the window and I tried playing the guitar and he taught me. And then I went to join my first band as a kid to play the guitar and they had four guitar players in the band already, so they asked me if I could sing and I said, "Not really." So I sang and I was the lead vocalist in that band for about five or six years. That's where I got my vocal training. I was the lead vocalist of that band and still the lead vocalist of the band today (laughing).


FJ: Not much has changed in that regard.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: (Laughing) Vocals, I discovered that by accident, you know what I mean, Fred? On the job training, you know what I mean? I was a young kid doing weddings and what not. I played around Los Angeles as a young boy playing weddings and even after school dances and all like that, through high school and all that, playing guitar and singing. Then I was a trap drummer and I always sang no matter what instrument I tried to play or do. And then right towards the end of high school, I guess I was about in the tenth or eleventh grade in high school and I picked up a conga drum and I'm self-taught. I started teaching myself how to play by listening to the old Cal Tjader records, Mongo Santamaria, Willie Bobo, and Tito Rodriguez records. I started learning how to play then and I actually got the gig with Cal Tjader in New Year's Eve, 1974-75, New Year's Eve, '75 at the Coconut Grove opposite Carmen McRae's band. I hit the big time right there.


FJ: Let's touch on your collaboration with Cal Tjader, you worked with him until his untimely death.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: That's right. Well, you know, Fred, I met Cal Tjader, well, I was a big Cal Tjader fan even since I was a kid because I am the youngest of eleven kids so my brothers and sisters had Cal Tjader records all over the house. I became a big Tjader fan when I got into high school and all that myself. I started seeing him at the old Lighthouse and then I started seeing him at Concert By the Sea in Redondo Beach, the old Howard Rumsey club. And one night I was playing with a local band here in Los Angeles and a guy was sitting at the bar and he was smoking a cigar. I went over to the bar on my break and he said, "Hey man, you sound really good." He said, "I'm a personal friend of Cal Tjader's." And at the time I thought, "Yeah, right." I didn't believe the guy. And the guy said, "I'm going to tell Cal about you." And I said, "Yeah, make sure you do." (Laughing) And then about two weeks later, Cal Tjader was at Concert By the Sea in Redondo Beach. And I went downstairs with my wife and one of my best friends, went downstairs and this gentleman, who is named Ernie, who I know very well now, Ernie was talking to Cal Tjader about me when I walked in the door! It was like, "Whoa!" And he said, "Cal, that's the guy, right there. That's him!" And he had told him all about me and I thought, "Oh, my God, this guy wasn't jiving." And then later on, Cal told me, he goes, "Ernie's an acquaintance of mine. Actually, I've known Ernie from the Navy." Cal was a medic in the Korean War and Ernie was in the Navy with Cal and that's how he knew Cal. It was true. He did know Cal. He introduced me to Cal. And Cal let me sit in that night at Concert By the Sea and about a week and a half later, it was New Year's Eve time and he called to play with him at Coconut Grove at the Ambassador Hotel.


FJ: You have had phenomenal success in the past few years, headlining the Playboy Jazz Festival over the summer, yet your loyalty to your roots and humble beginnings is what impresses me most. You still maintain a home in Norwalk.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: It is important and I have always felt that way. We moved to a nicer home, well, actually, we bought our home now here in Norwalk, a little better area than where I used to rent at, you know the area, Fred, because I'm making more money. Of course now, we've been here for eleven or twelve years. It's important to stay close to your roots and to stay close to where you grew up at, and it's been very good for me, except now, Fred, to be honest with you, we've been thinking about moving. Not that we don't like it or hate it, it's just, I think I've put my time here in Norwalk. I've played for the city many, many times for free. I've been Grand Marshall at the Norwalk Parade. You name it. You know what I'm saying? I've done it all for my city and I'm proud to be a part of Norwalk, but we've been thinking maybe, I think, maybe next year we may move out. We've been looking at some pretty nice homes. You know what I mean? That's the way it is, right? I mean, hey, I think after all of this time, we deserve that. But, Fred, say it doesn't happen, well, you know what, I'll be cool here. Maybe I'll just add on to the house or something. I may even do that, move up, move out, something. I've been collecting so many things through the years, starting with CDs and records, videotapes and drums. My wife says, "Don't bring no more stuff home." I think it all shows in a person's life, how you were raised. I think that's important too. I was raised with a beautiful mother and father, who I just lost.


FJ: You mother passed away last year.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: I lost my mother last year and I lost my father the year before, but they lived a long life. They were like eighty-seven years old, so they had a long and beautiful life, and eleven kids. Thank God, everybody's doing fine. I think all that's important. It starts at home, your up ringing, your morals, all your standards, and then you have to set a goal in life always.


FJ: You don't distance yourself from the audience during your performances, how important is audience participation to you?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Yeah, you know, I think that helps you to be successful, for one, of course. For two, people really get to feel you and know who you are and what you're all about. I really think that that keeps them coming back. Many people have told me, I know, that they get relatives in from out of town and they say, "Hey, we're going to take them to see Poncho. He's either playing in a place where you can dance or they've got great food or just have some great drinks. We'll have a great time." And even in the jazz clubs where we play, where there is not a dance floor, by the end of the night, they're up and dancing anyway (laughing), which means they are having a good time. I think it is really important to have a good time. I feel good when I see the people having a good time. It makes us have a good time too. I go to play and have a good time, every time I play. I thank God every night that I get to make a living by hanging out with my best friends and making good music and making good money too. I can't ask for anything more, Fred.


FJ: What is clave?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Clave, well actually, literally clave is two wooden sticks that are played together and the clave gives the music a certain flavor or certain sound. They're two little wooden blocks that you play, you hit. It kind of gets difficult at times, even professional musicians, have times with certain claves. I have myself. I remember Cal used to. Everybody has. Forward clave, reverse clave, which is three-two clave, two-three clave, then there's the rumba clave that came off of the three-two clave, then there's the bossa nova clave which is different than the mambo or cha-cha-cha clave. There's claves in every type of Latin music or even African music so it can get pretty difficult, but in general, Fred, you know what I like to say in general, "If you are so worried about the clave and you're trying to get everything straight, then you are missing the whole point." Of course, you want to play correctly, but the first thing you want to do is feel the music. You want to feel it with your heart. You want to feel it with your soul. You want to feel it with your mind. You want to groove to the music. I think that's more important than any clave! Just as long as you feel the music, I'm talking for musicians and for the crowd that are just enjoying the night out there. Of course, it starts getting a little difficult if you are doing a super arrangement of a tune or something, well, you better know what type of clave you're on and where to play because it does make a difference, somewhat. The tune will still flow, even if you play in the clave wrong, but it will flow better if you're in the right clave. Sometimes people freak out a little too much about the clave. Hey man, just feel it and groove and that will do it for you.


FJ: I saw you at the Playboy this year and you had that audience on its feet.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Oh, that was fun.


FJ: You are getting that diehard following after years of banging on the door, is it gratifying to you to see all your hard work pay off?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Absolutely. It's really, really gratifying. It really feels good because I know how hard we had worked for this. And also, people like Cal Tjader, Willie Bobo, and Mongo Santamaria, who have a good size following but not as big as I do now. But I came from them. They opened the road for us. I owe a lot to them and I'll never forget that. That's why I have done tributes to, I've done the Memories of Cal Tjader album (Soul Sauce). I've done the Conga Blue, which featured the great Mongo Santamaria with us and did a lot of his tunes. All that is very important to me and I know where I came from and where I come from and I'm just proud to see that, yes, Latin jazz is growing all over the world. I do know as a fact that the Poncho Sanchez Latin Jazz Band plays a very important part in the growth of Latin jazz through all the world because I know we take it all over the world. I've been tired and I've been sick with the flu and with fever and then something comes of you, Fred. Thank God, I've never missed a show on the road. I've missed a couple of shows here in town where I was actually in bed and could not get out. I still sent the band. What I did was I put Papo on congas and then I just hired a bongo player to perform. There is still a lot of songs they can't do without me because there's no lead vocalist in the band but myself. They had to sidestep a lot of those type of tunes, but they did a lot of Latin jazz stuff that night. What I'm trying to say, Fred, is that we've taken this music all over the world. We've worked very, very hard for what we've got now. Where the Poncho Sanchez Band is today has not been an accident. It's been a lot of hard work and we fought it out. I've been very lucky because I have a great agency that works for me, Jim Cassell at The Berkeley Agency works with me. He's not only my agent, he's my personal manager and Rebecca Martinez, who is the manager of the band. I have two managers. They are great. They help me out a lot and David Torres, my musical director. I bounce stuff off of all them people, all the time and then I make the final decision of everything. I sign all the checks. I do everything, but they help me a great deal. All these things are important. All these things count to be successful. There's been a couple of times, we travel all over the world. We play in every situation you can think of and there has been times, I remember one time, a young conga drummer came up to me and said, "Poncho, I play as good as you, man. Why ain't I where you're at?" I said, "Come here, son. Come over here. You know what? Maybe you do play as good as me or maybe you can even play better than me, but that's not the whole ball game, my man. Just because you play good doesn't mean you're going to make it. There's many things that make you successful. You have to put them all together. You have to be a good businessman. You have to present yourself in front of the public very well. You have to speak to the crowd properly on a microphone. You have to have a good travel agent. You have to have a good agency. You've got to have a current recording contract with a major label so you can get your records distributed to the whole world." You're on independent labels and they do one CD every five years. It's not going to work that way. There are many things that make you successful, not just because you play good. That's one of the important parts, but there's more things.


FJ: Let's touch on your extensive relationship with Concord Picante.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: I think that it's been one of the most important factors of my success, for them and for me. We've helped each other. I'm from that old school, Fred. Family values mean a lot to me. They made that label, the branch, Concord Picante, they made that label for Cal Tjader. Cal recorded the first album on that label, La Onda Va Bien and we immediately won a Grammy. Then Cal signed Tania Maria and then he signed me. I was the third person to sign on that label. And then Tito Puente signed. Tito is gone from that label. Tania is gone from that label and Cal's gone. I'm the original member from that label and of course, the original man who put it all together, Carl Jefferson. Now, Carl's also gone.


FJ: The label and it's parent label Concord went through some very difficult times over the past couple of years, languishing in bankruptcy for the majority of that period.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: I do have very good feelings about everything because they've always tried to keep it as a very legit label. They've been real straight with me. The thing to them is the recording quality and the whole package in general should be high quality. The music should be fine and high quality. That's what they really cared about and they're still that way. That's what really important to me. They have never come knocking on my door and said, "OK, Poncho, it's time for you to do some commercial stuff and jump through some few hoops with some fire and have some pretty girls next to you." They've never told me that and if they would, I would leave them. They were going through some hard times. Thank God, things are looking great now. They have heavy backers now. They're doing good now. I feel really good about it, Fred.


FJ: Labels must have approached you in those last couple of years.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: When they were having a hard time, I did tell John Burk at Concord, I said, "John, I'm not going anywhere until I find out what's going on with you guys." And he thanked me so much for that. And during that year and a half, Fred, I did get offers from all the major labels. But I said, "Well, I'm going to wait and see what happens to Concord."


FJ: Let's talk about your new release on Concord Picante, Latin Soul, a live recording recorded at Los Angeles's Conga Room and Oakland's Yoshi's.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Sure, well, of course the new CD has just been out for a couple of weeks. We're pretty excited about it. It was time to do another live CD. It worked out excellent. We have two tracks from Yoshi's up in Oakland, California and the rest of the tracks are all from the Conga Room, here in Los Angeles. The band, of course, is my touring, traveling, and recording band. It consists of Francisco Torres on trombone, Sal Cracchiolo on trumpet and flugelhorn, Scott Martin plays all saxophones, tenor, alto, baritone and flute, Ramon Banda, timbales, Tony Banda on bass, Jose "Papo" Rodriguez on bongos, and, of course, our musical director David Torres and the guy who really helps me a great deal and has been with me for about eleven years, I don't go anywhere without him, is Larry Sanchez, who is our sound man and roadie. He's a professional sound guy and he does my sound everywhere and helps me a lot in the studio and out of the studio. I carry a sound man at all times. And also, Mike Whitman, a friend of ours, played on the two tracks up North at Yoshi's. I had a baritone player live on the date over there. Scott went in and overdubbed those tracks here in LA. We're really excited about the CD. It's been working out really well and we've been getting good excitement out of it and it's only been out a couple of weeks. What we tried to do was do a lot of the tunes that people requested. It's been working out beautifully. There's two tracks, the ones from up North, we've never recorded those tunes before, "Lisa" and "Guaripumpe." We have never recorded those tunes before. All the rest, we have recorded before, but in the studio. So these are live versions of those tunes.


FJ: You have toured all over the world, but where was one destination where you thought to yourself that no one was going to come out and was pleasantly surprised to see a good turnout?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Probably the first couple of trips to Japan. You know, Fred, now-a-days, they've got salsa bands in Japan. Now, the very first time I ever went to Japan with Cal Tjader, we featured Art Pepper and Clare Fischer on that trip with us. This must have been about twenty years ago. Cal was cool because he played Latin jazz. Jazz was much more popular then in Japan than Latin music. Art Pepper was like a star in Japan. I thought, "Wow, this is a trip. He's not that popular at home." But now, it's a different story. Latin jazz is getting very popular in Japan and they've had several very successful salsa bands out of Japan. Now, it's nice. It's really growing and doing well. I have to tell you a story, Fred. The first time that I ever went down to Peru, we went to Lima, Peru to play the top jazz fest. I thought, "Man, that's way down there and I've never been to Peru. I don't know how I'm going to do down there." We do excellent in Columbia, in Venezuela, and like that, but Peru, I don't know. Anyway, I get there. I get off the plane at six in the morning. As I'm walking out of the airport, there's about six young kids. They looked like Chicanos to me. They were thin, young kids from the neighborhood. They were about fifteen years old. The oldest one must have been about seventeen. They came running, "Don Poncho. Don Poncho." I was like, "Wow, I don't know nobody in Peru." I was half asleep anyway. And they came running with my albums and they had like a stack of them. They said, "Oh, Poncho, we heard you were coming on this flight." I said, "How did you find that information?" "Well, the concert's tomorrow and they usually come the day before and there's only one flight a day." And then they said, "Would you please autograph the album?" Of course in Spanish, but I was shocked that they were so young and they had my records. I'm signing away and it ends up, it's really a touching story, Fred. I asked all the kids, "So you guys going to the concert tomorrow?" And they said, "Poncho, that's for people with money." It ended it being about fifty dollars in our money to get into the concert. I said, "You know what? You guys meet me at the back door at seven o'clock and you're going to get in. Don't worry." I got there and there was a guard that had chased those kids away two or three times already. "The kids have been coming up with a story that they are your guest. I chased them off. They are over on the other side of the street." I whistled for them and they all came and said, "No, they're with me." I let them in. They enjoyed the concert. Thank God. I just felt good about the whole thing. They love it. They knew all my tunes. The most important part of the story, Fred, is that the next day when we were leaving, they were back at the airport and I was getting ready to leave and one of them had made a T-shirt with my picture on it, off of one of the CDs that I had signed. I told one of the main boys there, "Man, why don't you come to the United States? There's a lot of opportunities in the United States and a lot of music like mine." I was going on and on about the United States and he says, "You know, Poncho? I don't think I can ever get out of Peru. There's so many people ahead of me for the legal paperwork." He went on and on about that. I didn't even think of that. I don't know. But here's what he told me, Fred, "But Poncho, you don't know. I leave this place every night." I looked at him and he goes, "Because when I put your music on and I put my headphones on, I'm not here no more." I got the chills when he told me that. My music does that much for him. And this is a kid, sixteen years old. He knew every tune. I got on the plane and that really touched my heart.


FJ: Kangol owes their popularity to two people in particular, you and Samuel L. Jackson. Do you have an endorsement deal with Kangol?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Oh, yeah. I endorse Kangol. I've been endorsing Kangol caps now for about, God, I've been with Kangol now for about fifteen years. They send me a box with a variety of colors. About every six months, they send me a whole box full of them and I just mix and match. Yes, I do endorse Kangol. Also as well, I endorse Regal Tip Timbales Sticks. I endorse also the REMO conga drums. They have two models, the Poncho Sanchez Signature Series conga and they also have the El Conguero model now. I have two different series of conga drums with the great company, REMO.


FJ: Every time I turn around it seems like you make another friend in Hollywood, Edward James Olmos and Bill Cosby have all written kind words, am I to assume that you will be doing some acting in the near future?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: (Laughing) To me, I love them cats. They are really great friends of mine. They've been to my home here. They're really great people and great supporters. They love the music. I was just with Bill in Washington DC, about three weeks ago at the Thelonious Monk Institute. We did a big thing there and James Olmos was here at my home. I had a big party last year. So we're pretty good friends and they love the music. Me, personally, I've always wanted to be a conga drummer and I've always wanted to be like Mongo Santamaria and Cal Tjader and people like Willie Bobo and I'm here and I'm doing it. As far acting, I never even thought about being an actor. I've never wanted to be an actor. I'll leave that to them. I think the actors should leave the conga drumming to us. The guy that's been helping Cachao, what's his name, Fred?


FJ: Andy Garcia.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: (Laughing) There you go. He's gets up on stage and plays a couple of tunes. I'm like, "Hey, man, you stick to acting and we'll stick to playing." He's also a fan and a friend, and like I said, "You're a great actor."


FJ: Your new album is titled Latin Soul, what is Poncho's soul?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Wow, well, Fred, it would be a little combination of rhythm and blues, the early rhythm and blues, the soul sound, the soul years, definitely, the authentic mambo and cha-cha-cha, and definitely, the straight-ahead jazz sound, the Blue Note sound, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, all those things in one. That's Poncho's soul. That's the stuff I love, Fred. From Johnny Otis to James Brown, The Four Tops, and The Temptations, and it comes out of there with Cal Tjader, Miles Davis, and all that is me.


FJ: Lastly, you have been hi-tech for a while, why don't you give your web address out?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: We're at www.ponchosanchez.com.


Fred Jung is Jazz Weekly's Editor-In-Chief and Interview Specialist. Comments?  Email Fred.