A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH KURT ROSENWINKEL

January 16, 2001

Kurt Rosenwinkel has been a friend to the Roadshow and so I was honored to have an encore conversation with the guitarist about his latest release on Verve, The Next Step, unedited and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: Let's touch on your time with Gary Burton.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Gary provided a kind of alternate perspective of how to approach music. He is a master musician. I think I got a lot of experience from playing with Gary. I mean, that was my first real gig that was international and so we toured around a lot and Gary and I had a lot of good conversations. He is a brilliant man and so we had a lot of great conversations. We sparred a lot because philosophically, I think we were in different places and I think we both got a lot out of that, really testing our philosophies because he was a little more controlled musically than I am and so we would have great discussions about music and stuff and that was really it good it helped to strengthen my own abilities. There was a lot of ways that Gary influenced me. I don't think Berklee, as a whole didn't really have that much influence on me academically because at the time I was more interested in gaining experience playing with the other students. Than really learning in an academic way in the classroom so I didn't really soak up a lot of the material that they were trying to teach us as students. Actually, later on I went back and got a lot of material from Berklee that I wasn't interested in when I was there.


FJ: You were the recipient of the National Endowment for the Arts' Composer Award.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yes.


FJ: Did they give you money?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: (Laughing) Yes.


FJ: Obviously, the award is prestigious, but from an aesthetic point of view, did winning the award improve your musical quality of life?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yes, absolutely. I felt really validated by the recognition of that award. I felt honored that for an institution like the National Endowment for the Arts to recognize me as a composer really gave me, besides the money, gave me, well, along with the money, gave me a feeling of inspiration that I could actually pursue a bigger idea compositionally. It gave me the strength to conceptualize in a bigger way. It just gave me the support to follow through on the ideas that I was having anyways, but more the first thing I said. It really supported me. It just gave me a feeling of support, gave me a feeling that this culture cares, which is valuable, really valuable because it's just a fabric we live in this culture. And if you get the feeling that nobody cares then you really only live in your own microcosm and it might be harder to actually realize things, artistic things. But to get that kind of support and recognition from that institution made me feel stronger in my ability to imagine music.


FJ: The time between your debut on Verve, Enemies of Energy, and your latest, The Next Step, has been abnormally lengthy.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yes.


FJ: How much time had passed.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Four years.


FJ: How have you seen yourself progress in that time?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: That is a very big question, Fred. I mean that's there is a lot of elements to that because there is a lot of ways, there is a lot of lines of growth, a lot of different areas that develop, so it's a hard question.


FJ: Narrow it down to these two aspects, Kurt Rosenwinkel, the composer and Kurt Rosenwinkel, the guitarist.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Well, I think compositionally, I think as I've grown as a composer, things have become more distilled. The ideas that I work with become more essential in themselves in my compositions now and this is from my own microcosmic, subjective, personal perspective. This is my relationship with my compositions, so for me, my compositions, before, were utilizing a lot of variations on an idea because that's the way that I work. If I have an idea, I'll work with it in many different ways and come up with things that I like, that germinate from a certain idea seed if you will. So my compositions, before, had much more limbs you know, much more extensions, whereas now, I think I've gotten better at realizing the, I've gotten closer to the actual root of what the idea is and so I think I am able to convey that in a much more essential way in my compositions now. So that's one thing. Also, I think, compositionally, I think that there is a more direct quality, more simple, but more powerful. And more room at the same time, more room for the group to interpret and to put their own things in it because before, a lot of my compositions were very specific, very thoroughly composed with improvisational sections, but most of the written material being specific parts for each person and I think now, there is more of a sense of a skeletal structure, more similar to playing a standard in a way, but also retaining the essence of the song which has its own identity and always remains itself. So that's the part of how I see the development of that.


FJ: And as a player?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: As a player, I'm just trying to develop a level of mastery of certain subjects. That's a real disciplined pursuit and involves a lot of practice because I want to have a certain command over the instrument and over the language in order to be able to produce a more powerful statement musically and also to work with other people's music better to really be at a relationship with the fundamentals of music so that when I get music from someone else that is involved in certain ways or at a high level of complexity, that I don't become entangled in that and don't have to think about that too much so that I can learn it in order to banish it in a way. To master it so you can forget it. There's that aspect and also at the same time, which is perhaps harder, is I am trying to continue to develop in a way that allows for the just the basic, natural impulse of music, which is something that I always had and something that I feel had to be kept in balance. It's just an intuitive thing. If you ask me the question and I'm thinking these things and they sound like I've thought about them and I think about them verbally, it's a misconception because I'm just verbalizing it now, but it all just sort of happens intuitively for me. I'm not a very intellectual person in an academic sense. Some people hear my music and they attribute, they ascribe a sort of intellectualism to it, sometimes, most of the time not, but sometimes they do. It's truly not about that for me at all. I'm just trying, well not trying. I'm doing, just being an intuitive musician because that's what I value most.


FJ: What kinds of musical personalities are you looking to work with now?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: People I like working with are musicians who have an idea of mood, most importantly, to have an idea of mood. That music is something that creates a mood or a feeling, a tangible aesthetic, something, whatever it is. There is some kind of vibration intention that has to do with just a very simple feeling or an imagination, and so the musicians that I gravitate towards are musicians that have that desire and awareness and capability of creating something other than notes and chords and rhythms. That extra thing that, that thing that makes music magical. That's where I'm looking and those are the kinds of musicians that I respond to and enjoy playing with.


FJ: Has it been difficult finding those elements?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: No, no it hasn't. I've been lucky to be in a scene, at a point in time where there is an abundance of musicians that have that similar desire, imagination or awareness.


FJ: Give me a rundown of some of those musicians that you are referring to.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: I hate doing the rundowns because I always leave people out and I'm never good at remembering names. But there are a lot of people, Jeff Ballard, Ben Street, Mark Turner, Brad Mehldau, Larry Grenadier, Jorge Rossy, Chris Cheek, Seamus Blake, Jason Lindner. See, Fred, and now, I get to the point where it's like I'm leaving people out.


FJ: We'll apologize to anybody that you leave out, keeping in mind that you are under pressure.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: OK (laughing).


FJ: You mentioned Ben Street and Jeff Ballard, both of whom are on your new album.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yes and also, Brian Blade.


FJ: And Mark Turner. You have had a significant association with Mark. As a composer, is it comforting to have somebody with the presence of mind, the technical ability and the understanding of your music that Mark seems to have?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Totally! Just knowing that we all get it. There is no need for elaboration outside the music itself. It's an incredible feeling and it's all a cyclical thing because when I write now, I really hear Mark and we have a common understanding and also with Ben and Jeff. I've been hearing my music in the context with the influence of their minds, their souls and their sound, so it's a beautiful thing to hear it come to life with their spirits playing it because it's made for them in a way and it comes from them too. So, yeah, it's more than comforting. It's no, I don't know what the word is. It's a good feeling.


FJ: Saves money on studio time for extra takes.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yeah, you never know sometimes. You have trouble with the song for whatever reason. It's kind of hard to predict the songs you'll have trouble with too. But for the most part, especially on this recording, everything was just like one, two, three.


FJ: As a bandleader and as a composer, what do you value more, strong improvisations or an unforgettable melody?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: What a question. Hopefully, they should be the same thing. I have no interest in a solo that doesn't have melody. What do you have if you don't have melody? Melody manifests itself in different ways. Drums are melodic.


FJ: I ask because both you and Mark never seem to grandstand.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Right.


FJ: It almost seems like it doesn't become you to grandstand.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Of course not. We don't do that. It's totally and completely out of context. It wouldn't happen because we're not those kinds of people. The kind of togetherness that we want to have with an audience is a kind that you can't get with that approach, the grandstanding kind of approach. That's a different kind of connection that can be great and I've seen really exciting times where you might say someone is grandstanding, but if they are good at it, they are really good at doing that, then it's affirmative. But often there is a negative implication to that word because at some level, it's implied that it's sacrificing some musical focus. It's sacrificing some musical principles, which in a lot of cases, it is doing that and so you know, Fred, I am just not of that temperament.


FJ: You always seem to be pretty face value. What it is, is what it is.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yes, I have always valued honesty and I think that that is the only way you find your own voice and I have just never felt like that is something that becomes me. It's not me. Sometimes I think it could come in handy if I were more like that, certain situations that everybody is doing that and I feel out of place and sort of, certain situations function because of that and if your not doing that then you're not functioning in that situation and that's a bad feeling. Sometimes I wish I could do it more, but it doesn't really matter. That's just a completely little thought, after thought, totally.


FJ: Tour plans?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: Yes. We are doing a week at the Vanguard on the twenty-third of January, a week at the Jazz Bakery in Los Angeles on February 5 and we're doing a European tour in February. We are playing in Blues Alley in March and hopefully, in Philadelphia in March. And me and Mark are playing in Chicago in March and hopefully, we'll have a summer tour and other things being filled in along the way.


FJ: And the future?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: On music, I don't know. I was going to say you have to take things one-step at a time. But you know that's a stupid thing to say.


FJ: Let's not be cliché.

KURT ROSENWINKEL: (Laughing) Exactly. No, no, that's why I stopped saying it, even though it's true. I have ideas. There are so many things I want to do. The reason why I started to say that is because you have to wait and hope that your able to make a new record because it's always one record at a time thing. Hopefully, if I am able to make a new record, I do have, anyway, I have things I need to do, so they will happen anyway, regardless, but in my head, in my imagination of what's next is I would like to make another quartet recording and continue to work through a lot of the repertoire that we already have because we have tons of music. We have a lot more music already that we've been playing that's ready to be recorded, so there's already a couple records worth of music that is strong and that I want to continue with the group. Also, there are new things that are coming up for me musically that I am not quite exactly sure what they are going to end up being like, but something really different too, something I can feel, something completely different. All of those are sort of germinating. So I see that on the horizon, but I'm not sure exactly what that is.


FJ: Listening pleasures?

KURT ROSENWINKEL: I've been listening to Ravel's Piano Concerto. It's the Adagio movement number in D or G and it's just, this movement is incredible, incredible, incredible. So I've been listening to that and a lot of the Ravel piano music and I've been listening to a lot of songs like Led Zeppelin and the Beatles and stuff like that, stuff that I always kind of touch base with, but not much jazz actually right now.


Fred Jung is the Editor-In-Chief and the first person voted off Survivor II. Email Him.