A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH PONCHO SANCHEZ

(November 21, 2002)


Poncho Sanchez is nothing if not real. His music reflects that tangible quality. Time sure flies. I remember like it was yesterday going to see him play at a local swap meet. Those days are long gone now, but Sanchez is still humble. With a best of hitting store shelves for the holidays, Sanchez, just back from a lengthy tour, sat back down with the Roadshow to talk about his music, the passing of mentor Tito Puente, and the future, as always commercial free and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: When a jazz record label releases a best of, it warrants retrospection on a career worthy of such praise.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Oh, Fred, there has been a lot of great things. I thank the Lord. I have been blessed so much, Fred. Not all musicians get to have and do what I've done. I don't care how great they think they are, some of them never even reach half of what I've done. Some of the great things, of course, was getting the gig with Cal Tjader, playing with Mongo Santamaria, playing with Armando Peraza (Santana), playing with the world's greatest conga drummers of my time, which was Mongo, Armando, Candido, Ray Barretto. And then of course, playing with the great Dizzy Gillespie, I played with Dizzy a number of times where I was his guest, where he was my guest, and all like that. All the great masters like Tito Puente and Celia Cruz, Eddie Harris, Freddie Hubbard, just all of the greats of my time. Now, there is a lot of new, young guys coming up, but all the greats from when I was growing up were just some of the people I just mentioned. So there has been some great things and then of course, some great achievement awards like they have the Poncho Sanchez Signature Series congas at the Smithsonian Institute now and winning the Grammy and the Billboard Awards two years in a row and I just won, I didn't even know, two weeks ago, I won the BMI Award for the number one Latin jazz artist of the year. There is just so many great things.


FJ: The flipside of life is the road ends in death. Latin jazz lost its figurehead two years ago, Tito Puente.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Well, Tito, God, we can go on for weeks in the conversation about Tito. Tito, first of all, was a great, great pioneer. Tito, he was performing at a time that it was really rough to make any type of living off of playing this music. Then he was at a time when he finally started, in a professional sense, to start recording. He used to record four or five records a year. That is unheard of. Same with Cal Tjader in those days, but Tito used to record four or five records a year. He used to arrange it all, write it all out, and orchestrate it all. This guy was incredible. The guy nowadays can say, :Oh, yeah, I am real busy. I write a couple of tunes every couple of months and I record once a year." Come on, that ain't nothing. That is a joke compared to what somebody like Tito Puente did. People need to really take a second and check that out and see where this man came from, suffered through, worked through, and worked at. These things should be important for upcoming, young artists to think about because it was a different time and so these guys really, really did pay their dues and Tito, not even to mention the great timbalero that he was and the great dancer, Tito was a great dancer. I've got black and white video footage of Tito doing steps with girls dancing around him and he is part of the show as he is taking a solo and playing a difficult piece. This guy was incredible. Kids don't know nothing about that nowadays. They need to sit back and check that out and see where the masters were coming from. He was just something else. I miss Tito a great deal. I had some wonderful, wonderful personal moments with him where we were just sitting at the bar, having a drink, and sitting there talking about some pretty deep shit. Tito was a wonderful human being and it is funny, Fred, he would put an act on. He would put almost another face on when the cameras came on. He was just incredible. There would be times when he seemed so tired and I would be worried for him. I would feel tired too, but he would perk up more than me as soon as the camera would come on. The light goes on and he would smile and stand up straight and start playing. He looked like he was ready to fall over and die and all of the sudden, he is doing interviews and he's smiling and taking pictures with people, just incredible. And then, I would get him by himself and he'd say, "Jesus, I am so tired." He'd be exhausted, but yet, someone would sit next to him and want an autograph and boom, he would perk up again. He did it for a long time.


FJ: Of the twenty plus tracks that make up The Ultimate Dance Party (Concord), any favorites?

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Well, they really are some of my favorites. There are some really good choices here, some good selections. For me, it was something that was fun. I had to develop my sound and my style in the early years. I drove that real hard and I stuck with it for many, many years, doing many records with the Poncho Sanchez sound so that we could develop our sound, which was the hard driving Latin jazz sound, taking bebop tunes and doing them Latin style and we would write our own arrangements around bebop arrangements. You play an intro, a melody, a bridge, and back to the melody, a solo, that kind of thing and maybe a shout chorus towards the end. I used that formula for many, many years. It was like they said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It worked beautifully for me. Then of course, we would go back to the real typical Cuban style of doing the cha-cha-cha or we'd do "Bien Sabroso." Certain tunes like "Besame Mama," which is a Mongo tune and stuff like that. You also follow the tradition of the early Cuban style of their music. Those were fun and, of course, I like "El Conguero" because it simply opens up the CD and it explains itself that I am the conguero and I am here to play for you and for you to have a good time.


FJ: While industry standard has been to delete material, Concord has twenty plus Poncho titles readily available in their catalog.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: That is very true what you said, Fred, but I will add to that. They are not taking them off because they are still selling. Let's face it, Fred. I own a business here. I have the Poncho Sanchez LLC here. I actually own a business here. If it is not working for you and money is not coming in, you've got to let it go or you've got to change something or whatever. This is business. That is what happens. You have artists and all of the sudden they slow down and their stuff doesn't sell anymore, well, hey, it is time to get it off the shelf or do away with it and keep moving here. That is just the facts. That is just the way it is. Believe me, Fred, Concord wouldn't be leaving it out there if they weren't making any money. That is one thing that I also feel blessed. Then, of course, you come up with the idea of how can we make it sell a little bit more. You put two in one and you make it one package and what not. It works beautifully. I am getting ready to go into the studio. We will probably go in in February and do another new, fresh recording in February. We are starting to rehearse the band now and there is a lot of stuff coming out for the next thing. It is true. They do take them off the shelf, but I've been very, very successful and lucky to keep selling even the ones that have been selling for years.


FJ: Where did you and James Brown make a pact with the devil? I have yet to hear a bad Poncho record. And you have done over twenty sessions. That brings luggage, heavy expectations.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Thank you. (Laughing) That is so true, Fred. It is funny. You are so correct and one of the very few persons to have actually done your homework so well to know that. A lot of people just ask the surface questions. You are absolutely correct, Fred. These things, I have been very lucky because, first of all, Concord has been wonderful to me and I feel that I have been wonderful to them. I've known them from day one, Carl Jefferson from way back. Cal Tjader got me to sign with them. I have the seniority there on the label as far as the Picante label goes. They have never told me what to do or anything. They might throw a suggestion out there, but that is about it. They don't say, "Poncho, I want to make sure this next record has this." They have never pushed anything like that on me. At this point, now, I talk to John Burk, who is the vice president of Concord, who is my personal, one of my best friends. John comes here and stays in my home. We're friends. And Jim Cassell at the Berkeley Agency, who is my personal manager, and David Torres, who is my musical director. Between us four, we usually come up with the next concept for the next record and John, we will hang out, and he throws out many ideas and I will kick them around with David Torres and I will kick them around with Jim. So we come up with a nice little concept for each record. It is kind of cool. There is no high pressure, but I think I have earned that now. Yeah, so as far as making the CDs, they haven't put too much pressure on me and they actually help me out. I ain't through yet, Fred. I've still got a few more fresh ideas that I want to throw out there for the folks. After a while, you feel like you deserve to chill out for a while and enjoy what you've done. I am starting to get close to that, but not quite yet. I've still got a little more in me. There have been so many things we have done and people I have played with. We've been all over the world so many times.


FJ: And you've kept your roots in the old neighborhood.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Right, yeah, you are absolutely correct again. I come from the neighborhood. I'm the youngest of eleven kids. We grew up poor. We didn't have anything. I just learned about love and family as a young boy and it was very important to me. Growing up with this band, I was with Tjader and got a record contract and I had this little band with the Banda brothers (Ramon and Tony) and Sal Cracchiolo in the wings and they were just not good enough and they were just not ready to make a record, so my first record contract that I ever got was with Discovery records and so I hired some musicians that I knew that were good, which was Clare Fischer, Gary Foster, Alex Acuna, and people like that. As soon as I knew this band was ready was when I signed another contract with Concord and I did Sonando and they were very nervous and it was their first time out and we put it together and then Bien Sabroso got nominated for a Grammy and it started coming together. You are absolutely correct, I have tired to stay true to my upbringing and it has worked out beautifully. But now, that I can look back a little bit, I haven't gotten that much credit for that. Especially even from, there is a few guys who are gone now. It was just time for a change this year and I had to let Sal Cracchiolo go and Jose Papo Rodriguez, they're gone from the group. They've been gone for about six months now and it was just time for a change. I felt that I had done enough for them. I did my part for them. I helped Sal Cracchiolo with his record. I did three or four tracks for absolutely nothing. I didn't ask for anything. I just went and did it for him because I love him and he was a friend. He actually, to be honest with you, Fred, he left a little salty from the group. He said, "Poncho, I have been with you for twenty-five years." I said, "Isn't that enough?"


FJ: I recall you telling me that even Tjader told you to leave the nest.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Hey, Fred, this is what I was trying to explain to him, to a friend. Hey, I love you and everything, but you are not getting along and you are not agreeing with this and we're talking about money and how you should be making more money. Hey, there is no problem. I am paying you as much as I can. If it is not enough, then it ain't enough and it is time for you to do your own thing. I don't got a problem in the world with that. On the other side of all this, how is a young kid ever going to have the opportunity to play with a Poncho Sanchez if a Sal Cracchiolo doesn't ever move on. I can only do this for a few more years and I would like to help a few more kids out here, just as I did with Sal and Ramon Banda is not here with me anymore. Ramon left last December. I've got little George Ortiz and little George Ortiz is doing a wonderful job on timbales and then I have on bongos, a kid that I taught how to play. These guys left very salty and how is this ever going to happen if you guys don't keep walking. I love you guys, but when you are complaining that is ain't right and that ain't right, then guess what, it's not right. It is time for you to move on and let's get some new, young guys in here and let them enjoy it for ten years or so and hopefully, I can bring another batch in later.


FJ: And the circle continues.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Yeah, it really does. That is what happened with me and Cal Tjader. It was a very abrupt ending because he died in front of me, but nevertheless, I was with Tjader for seven and a half years and during that time, I did many records with him and he introduced me to Dizzy Gillespie and the same with me and Sal Cracchiolo. I introduced Sal to many, many people in this business. They have all seen him play and they like the way he plays. It is funny how you still hear funny things floating around town. What more can I do? I gave them their severance pay and went through the books and went through the musicians union. I did everything properly. I did everything by the book and you still get a salty result. What more can a man do?


FJ: You can sleep well at night.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Amen. That's exactly why I did it because I want to sleep good at night. We're not in the garage no more. We're not making twenty dollars a piece. The law requires me to do things this way. It has nothing to do with personal. The government says that I have to do things this way.


FJ: You are now, indeed, the spokesperson for Latin jazz and heir to the throne.

PONCHO SANCHEZ: Thank you, Fred.

Fred Jung is the Editor-In-Chief and is wild on E. Comments? Email Him