Courtesy of Greg Osby







Blue Note Records

A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH GREG OSBY


You would think with the stock market roaring, the weather seemingly pleasant, and Greg Osby finally getting some props from the rest of the traditional media, the smile on my face would be from ear to ear. Sadly, there's something missing. After a brief introspective quest, I figured it out. I am out of a worthy campaign. Working for McCain was a slight fix, but that ended practically as soon as it began. So what is the next campaign? And that is when the imaginary light bulb in my head went off: a Greg Osby box set. Right? That is it. I want an Osby box set. It is the only way most people will get an opportunity to listen to some of his earlier work like Art Forum, Black Book, and 3-D Lifestyles. So I have rented a bus. I'm driving this sucker cross country and picking up volunteers. Get on the bandwagon now. Crowds are building and room is very limited. Contact Osby via www.gregosby.com or toss me an email and let's get this campaign rolling. I even have a title, The Art of War. But Greg better give me shout out in the liner notes. I present to you, one of the major voices in this music, unedited and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: Let's start from the beginning.

GREG OSBY: I'm from St. Louis, born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri. I started playing clarinet in 1972 at age twelve in junior high school. I got my hands on an alto saxophone about a year, a year and a half later. I feel in love with the instrument. Shortly thereafter, I was asked to participate in a variety of local funk bands, soul groups, R&B bands, blues bands, and things like that at that period, the early to mid-'70s. All the groups had these big horn sections and so I had the benefit of learning how to blend and play in a section. I think that is critical to one's development, to learn how to hear and to learn how to balance yourself within that. In 1978, I got a scholarship to go to Howard University in Washington D.C. and stayed there for a couple of years and then transferred to Berklee School of Music in Boston in 1980, where I met and fraternized with a great group of young players, most of whom dominate the musical scene right now. I guess it was my destiny. All I had to do was play the game and connect the dots and it was kind of cool. It was really interesting because even back in high school as a young man, I was really career minded, painfully career minded, to the degree that I never ever went to any football games or basketball games, wrestling matches, anything like that, any parties, any social activities. I was always on the road on the weekends and during the week, I was practicing in groups and all the guys in the groups were much, much older than I was. They were in their thirties and I was fifteen, sixteen.


FJ: You missed out on the glory of your youth.

GREG OSBY: But you see, Fred, I don't look at it like that though. I had an accelerated education in manhood and in business, how to book gigs, how to travel and how to stay in hotels, the whole thing. It was kind of a prep school for the independent lifestyle that I lead right now. I've never really had a job where I had to punch a clock or anything. I have always made my living with the saxophone. Even throughout high school, I earned more money than my teachers. So I figured that this might not be a bad road to pursue.


FJ: That is a cool thing to put on a resume.

GREG OSBY: (Laughing) Yeah.


FJ: Good thing you switched over to the alto, it looks cooler than the clarinet.

GREG OSBY: Yeah, absolutely, I got my hands on the alto and a flute, so I kind of had the woodwind doubles covered. I played those all throughout high school and college. Once I got to New York, after a couple of years in Jack DeJohnette's group, in 1986 or '87, I got rid of them, the extra doubles and I just kept my alto and soprano saxophones. It helped to narrow down what my instrumental focus would be because there are a lot of people that shlep all these instruments to and from gigs and they don't have an identifiable sound on any one of them, even though they may be proficient.


FJ: But being like Rahsaan Roland Kirk is back in style these days, play nine instruments and they are not good at any of them, on the other hand, you have focused primarily on the alto and soprano.

GREG OSBY: Well, certainly, it will increase their availability for certain types of work. In New York, studio work, which really isn't that plentiful anymore, now that we have MIDI and all that kind of stuff. It used to be a human driven industry. If you needed a horn section, you get real horns, but now you get synthesizers and samples. But, show work on Broadway or certain types of GB or general business gigs, you know, weddings and fraternity organizations and stuff like that, whatever, you can certainly make a really good living if you play a lot of instruments and you can accept a lot of calls. However, you have kind of a nameless identity or a faceless identity on those instruments because you may play them all well, you don't have an identifiable sound, which is something that I've been obsessed with from the very beginning.


FJ: Do most of the cats these days even have an identifiable sound?

GREG OSBY: I think it is changing, Fred. Throughout the Eighties and definitely throughout the Nineties, it wasn't really a concern for a lot of people, but I see a lot of the younger player, you know, Jason Moran, Stefon Harris, Mark Shim, some of the drummers, Eric Harland, Nasheet Waits, they have a readily identifiable sound on their instrument of choice. I think that is due to them just being observant and recognizing the perils of being a jack of all trades and accepting all these miscellaneous gigs and not focusing on the essentials that are necessary for personality development. All the people that we laud as great, we don't laud them for no reason. We laud them because we recognize them in two notes. It like name that tune. I recognize John Coltrane in two notes. Not because of what he played, but because how he sounded. I recognize Miles in one note. Who has a tone like that? I recognize Art Tatum because of the way he played. Nobody played like that. I recognized Thelonious Monk because nobody voiced chords that way. That's Andrew Hill. That's Herbie Hancock. For a while, people were more concerned with being emulative, copying somebody so much that they became a test tube musician or a clone of more renowned musician's best attributes. To me, although that is an achievement, but that is not the accomplished musical destiny that I am trying to achieve.


FJ: I have noticed that even with the Down Beat Blindfold Test, a cat will listen to Monk or Mingus and gets it right away, but anything new and they're stumped.

GREG OSBY: Right, right. The thing is Fred, Monk and people of his generation had the benefit of getting the road dirty under their fingernails. They had an opportunity to play a lot more on a daily basis with accomplished musicians and right now, it is very rare for people to do tours and play on a daily basis. A lot of people are what I call living room musicians. They practice a lot. They don't put it into practical applications as much and so doing those one nighters and barnstorming and what have you. They, not only help to develop your character, but they help define your musical identity because you have to adapt to certain situations on a daily basis. You have to adapt to audience quirks. You have to adapt to conditions in some of the venues that you play. You have to be physically capable of maintaining a certain persona and stature. You have to be healthy really. So we're dealing with a different set of challenges and a different set of requirements. It is not fair to place those same expectations on a lot of the younger cats, but on the other hand, they have other things that they should be responsible for given that a lot of the information is more readily available to them.


FJ: Do you think you have a readily identifiable sound?

GREG OSBY: I think so. That has been one of my areas of concentration since I can remember. When I practiced out of piano books and violin books and when I would transcribe solos from other instruments so that music wouldn't be adorned with alto saxophone characteristics. I wanted to transpose some of that information from other mediums and other genres just so I could develop another language of my own that I was conscious of. I thought a lot of people were too concerned with sounding like John Coltrane and Charlie Parker. They were just copying them to the point where it was absurd. You're a living caricature of that player's best attributes. That's not a jazz frame of mind.


FJ: I remember back in the day when you were the apprentice and now you have matured into one of this music's dominating forces, spawning notable sidemen of your own, Jason Moran, Stefon Harris, and Eric Harland.

GREG OSBY: Yeah, absolutely. I think I can provide them with a lot of substantial information that would prevent them from dealing with certain pitfalls. I can give them business information, compositional information, and also just be there for them as somebody that they can consult or refer to if they have a certain problem. I may not have the answer, but I can provide them with something that is maybe inspiring. This is what I wish that I could have had. I wish I could have had a mentor, a personal mentor or somebody that was just a few years older that could look out for me, that took me under their wing. I had to like seek it out, but I'm willingly volunteering this information because it is all meant to be shared and it only fortifies the musical scene at large. It is not to my benefit or to my credit to be stingy with this information.


FJ: My smile is ear to ear that you are now getting the mainstream media attention that I have been on a soapbox about for as long as I can remember. One person who deserves some credit for your success is Blue Note President, Bruce Lundvall.

GREG OSBY: Yeah, absolutely. Bruce, he's been instrumental in keeping me on the label actually, because a couple of my recordings didn't do that well sales wise and some of the suits that Bruce had to actually answer to, they were suggesting that I be let go. And Bruce stood his ground and put his foot down as said, "No, Greg Osby is one of the cats that actually define the label and he helps to give the label integrity and it is to our benefit to keep him on." I'm really indebted to him for going to bat for me. He also signed me under the condition that nobody would get in my way. I negotiated that, to be honest with you, Fred, when I signed with Blue Note, back in 1990. I'm celebrating my tenth year now, actually.


FJ: That just shows how old you are.

GREG OSBY: (Laughing) Yeah, and I actually a record deal before that too for about three or four years. I said I know exactly what I want to do and I know exactly how I want to present myself and I really don't need an A&R cat or people in the studio from the label making suggestions and stuff that go against my natural musical grain or my artistic tendencies. I don't want to be fighting with people and I don't want to misrepresent myself either. I want to be proud of everything that I do, even though it may not always hit its mark. Sometimes it may be so challenging that I'm the only to get it.


FJ: A fine example of what you just referred to is Zero. I recall when that album came out, it got a very lukewarm reaction. I remember telling you how much I dug the album, but then you did Banned in New York on the heels of that, which everybody was into and they went back and re-listened to Zero and they loved it.

GREG OSBY: That's very true. Across the board, people are eating their words and I'm not smirking about that, I just wish people would have been, you see, Fred, the thing about it is that when people go back and listen to stuff, it is unfortunate because the sales reports don't reflect that kind of afterthought. It has to show when the record is newly released, but whenever people get it is fine with me. If they have problems, I am usually accessible. I'm all over the internet (Osby's website is at www.gregosby.com). I have like twenty billion numbers. I'm willing and able. But getting back to Bruce Lundvall, he sees it. He sees the big picture, that younger guys that haven't been jaded and that haven't been coerced into thinking with a really clouded vision or a clouded perspective, while they are impressionable, they are easy to talk to, to get at. You find the people with this prestigious talent and to nurture them and build careers, as opposed to trying to get them to do concept records that sell a lot of units. He wants to sell a lot of units and get awards and all that kind of stuff, win polls and stuff too, but he also recognizes the virtue of career development because he used to be the President of Columbia Records and he signed a lot of great pop artists and so he knows how the business works.


FJ: Let's talk about your latest release, The Invisible Hand.

GREG OSBY: The Invisible Hand is my description of the guidance that is given by these unseen forces, people that you respect, either living or you experience the people that have gone on. Sometimes you hear these voices. It is like a conscious. "No, that wouldn't be the right thing to do or maybe you need to study more or you need to wait." I hear these voices. And when I am writing, it is almost like another hand is guiding my hand. It's like, "How did I come up with that? How did I ever come up with that?" You know that it's got to be something that is otherworldly, that's not explainable. Especially when you produce sounds so much like somebody that you admire, you have to know that they had a hand in on it some kind of way. My personal statement or tribute to the two participants on the recording, Jim Hall and Andrew Hill, because I feel like their spirit is with me. Their spirit as well as the spirit of great individuals that I admire and have admired in this music. Whenever I want to do something, I wonder what they would do and somehow I get these answers.


FJ: People may have a preconceived notion that Jim Hall is squarely "in the pocket," but they are forgetting that he did some groundbreaking work with Sonny Rollins back in the day.

GREG OSBY: Absolutely, and Jim, what he does is almost an antithesis of his temperament. He's like so warm and so nice, but Jim knows a lot of music and he doesn't fool around when he gets on the bandstand. He is really into this subtle acoustic environment. He's not really loud. He's not really into banging and bashing and velocity and volume. He's into the colors and dimensions of his group and everybody participating, he is concerned with making everybody else sound good as a component, a piece of the puzzle. I learned so much from him with regard to phrasing and with regard to melodic intent and with regard to editing. Sometimes less is more.


FJ: Then, you have Andrew Hill. You can build a shrine around Point of Departure.

GREG OSBY: Oh, Andrew is one of a kind. They need to erect a University of Andrew Hill, his own method, his own prospectus, his own way of looking at things, his own logic. Him like no other, it pains me that people have this throwaway description that he's coming out of Monk or he's coming out of this and that. Andrew, I have sat and talked with him hours on end, all night long. We've been on the road and stuff and he's told me exactly where he's coming from. He's broken it down for me. He's very, very generous and informative with what's gone into his music and he's also very constructive with his criticism of me and what measures I can take to fortify my music. What I can do and what I can do without. That, Fred, is priceless information.


FJ: Gary Thomas plays flute and tenor on the session. He's a monster.

GREG OSBY: Gary, he's my old buddy. We started college together like twenty years ago, twenty-two years ago actually. He was like the first guy I met when I got there. We used to share a practice room. We were always conceptualizing, talking about what we were going to do. He's an enigma. He's one of those guys that really didn't have that much formal training. He stayed in college one year at Howard University and he went into the army after that and so everything else he's learned, he is largely self-taught and for somebody to be that accomplished, well, it's not that amazing in his case because Gary is a very, very intellectually adept individual. He's extremely intelligent and has a capacity for absorption that exceeds that of most people that I know. I really wanted to pit his flute playing against what I do because a lot of people aren't really aware of how proficient he is on the flute. And his tenor saxophone playing speaks for itself. He is so unique in his tone, his approach, and just his choices of content. It is so personalized. He has his own compositional and improvisational method that is peerless in my opinion. He is my favorite tenor saxophone player. Initially, I had code named this project. I called it my misfits project because I wanted to assemble a group of people that probably wouldn't play with each other under normal conditions and to see what that would yield. I wanted to get Don Byron, but we started to get into scheduling conflicts and budget restraints and I had to twiddle it down to what it's become. Andrew Hill and Jim Hall, because like I said, I had been doing double duty in their groups, that was the first thing that came to mind. I also wanted to enlist the services of my old roommate and my little sister Terri Lyne Carrington, who is peerless as well. She is my favorite drummer under forty. She is coming out of so much and she has lived so much music since she was a little kid. A lot of people don't know a lot about her prowess. She was so complimentary and musical that I couldn't do this recording without her. And Scott Colley, I have been playing with him with Andrew and Joanne Brackeen and with Jim Hall. I don't want to say that he's a musician's musician, but he can do so much more than just play the bass. He contributed so much melodically. His function wasn't just that of bass anchor or bass pivot. He was in there weaving in and out of my lines and filling in a lot of the voids. He was essential to the sound of this piece. It would have taken on a totally different character had he not been involved. I'm really, really proud of it and I hope that people in my peer group will recognize this as a representation of the potential that lies within bridging the generation gap. You have a lot of projects that are comprised of a lot of young people or just a lot of old people and very, very rarely, combinations of the two. There's a lot of lessons to be learned. For my money, a lot of records that come out, they sound young. They sound young. They don't sound bad, but they sound young. They don't sound like they been on the road a lot or they've a lot of life lessons. They just sound like accomplished musicians as opposed to people that lived some of the stories that they are attempting to tell. If they have a lot of these masters on hand, it just brings a solidarity to the sound. It brings a functionality to their music and to the genre that they are representative of.


FJ: We've spoken of this before, but jazz music is telling a story and if you have only liked a buck and a half, what are you going to say?

GREG OSBY: That's true. It's like these records by these young guys is like drinking wine that was fermented yesterday. It's like new wine. It's like, "Oh, man, this is horrible." It's not seasoned. It's not aged.


FJ: Last time we sat down, you mentioned how you wanted to take some time off and go into a self-imposed sabbatical.

GREG OSBY: I'm still doing that every chance I get, but it is difficult to do because the offers are coming in. After the recording was released, the offers are pouring in. Now, everyone wants to book me. It's amazing. It's amazing.


FJ: People catch up eventually.

GREG OSBY: Yeah, but the stuff that I was equally as proud of, it was ridiculous. I couldn't buy myself a gig (laughing). Now, everyone wants to book me. So I wanted to take some time off and do some studying, but I just have to do it on the airplanes or whatever method of transportation I'm on. I will get snatches and snippets of knowledge somewhere. I always travel with a lot of books and tapes and mini discs and all kinds of writings and ancient teaching and all kinds of stuff, just to maintain an air of expansion as far as knowledge is concerned. I don't want to become stagnant. I just want an air of progress.


FJ: Read Sun-Tzu's Art of War.

GREG OSBY: I've read that.


FJ: Nothing slips by you.

GREG OSBY: Oh, absolutely. That and The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi, a lot of things like that. A lot of tactical reads.


FJ: Tour plans?

GREG OSBY: Yeah, we are planning an extensive West Coast tour and also a tour of the Southeast. The West Coast tour looks like it is going to be in May, starting around May 2nd. I have a weekend in LA and we go to the Bay Area, Seattle, and Portland. Looks like it is going to happen this time. I usually have to cancel it because there are so many holes in the tour. I can't make it work, but now I have some sponsorship from corporations who are going to underwrite it and we can keep the band in the hotel during the off days and also Blue Note is going to kick in for some support.


FJ: Let's give a shout out to the advanced think tank at this corporation.

GREG OSBY: I can't name it.


FJ: We'll just refer to it as the Greg Osby Fund.

GREG OSBY: Yeah (laughing).


FJ: Where is the LA gig?

GREG OSBY: It's at the Jazz Bakery.


FJ: And the future?

GREG OSBY: I have a record in the can that was completed before The Invisible Hand was done. Bruce Lundvall thought it would be a better idea to release The Invisible Hand first because it makes a far more compelling story because it has Jim Hall and Andrew Hill on it. The other record is called Inner Circle and it has Jason Moran and Stefon Harris and Tarus Mateen on bass and Eric Harland on drums. They are some of the younger cats that have been playing with me as part of my inner circle. It is kind of a chronicle of a working band.


FJ: That should be a kick ass record because you guys have been playing together for about three years now.

GREG OSBY: Right, that is due for release around August. That is in line with me trying to get a couple of releases cranked out every year. It gives a more accurate portrayal of where I stand.


FJ: You and inner circle are definitely defining Blue Note in the new millennium.

GREG OSBY: Yeah and Bruce also recognizes the virtue of staying out of people's way, making it succumb to the too many cooks syndrome. I have seen it in a lot of recordings. It's like, "I know this guy. He doesn't even think like that. He would never put together a record like that. There is no way this could have been his idea." I know this, but I'm also, I don't want to say I'm skeptical, but Blue Note's parent company, Capitol Records, and their parent company, EMI merged with Warner, Time Warner, who just merged with AOL. So with all these corporate mergers, it's like the boss and the boss' boss, and the boss' boss' boss. They may look at some of these sales track records and see the stuff at the bottom of the totem pole that a lot of this jazz product isn't selling, that it is costing them money and do a broad sweep and get rid of a lot of people. I'm sure a lot of them are not fans of the music, so I am a bit weary of what can take place. I want to be positive, but it happened over at Verve. They let a lot of people go when they merged. So we will see.


Fred Jung is Editor-In-Chief and follower of Che. Comments? Email him.