Courtesy of Lonnie Plaxico






Blue Note Records

A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH LONNIE PLAXICO


It's a pick 'em whether or not you are familiar with the work of Lonnie Plaxico. Plaxico and his bass appears on more Art Blakey recording than Wynton Marsalis, oddly media perception associates Marsalis more closely with the Jazz Messengers. Want to talk about diversity, Plaxico has worked with Jack DeJohnette, Steve Coleman, Don Byron, Greg Osby, Ravi Coltrane, Russell Gunn, and David Murray. Ringing any bells now? How about his work with Cassandra Wilson? Plaxico has had an association with Wilson for around about a decade or so. Plaxico also has a handful of recordings on the Muse label. Never seen any of them? Understandable. Muse records have been "out of print" for the last three years since 32 Jazz went belly up and Plaxico's dates were never reissued by 32. So it is not so surprising that at forty, Plaxico finally has a major deal with Blue Note (fitting since he has been on most or all the records of Osby and Wilson). I sat down with a not so wet behind the ears Plaxico for a one on one about his new release, Melange, as always, unedited and in his own words.

FRED JUNG: Let's start from the beginning.

LONNIE PLAXICO: Back then when I was a kid, the music was so different as a teenager because it was more entertaining. I come from that pop world before I got to jazz. That part of me will always be there, the energy of going to see a band singing and doing steps through the whole show. Jazz is something that I got into because an older friend of mine told me about John Coltrane. It was more of an art. It was not the energy that I would see going to hear a pop band. The production was totally different.


FJ: Collaborations with Cassandra Wilson aren't exactly small time and finally you're getting some major label play.

LONNIE PLAXICO: She's worked in the business and she's pretty successful. Also, I got a chance to get away from what I was doing. I did four CDs from '90 to '94. I got a chance to reevaluate what I wanted to do and play with more musicians. I let stuff happen naturally, not forced it or anything. After seven years, I was hungry to step out and take over. Doing a lot of other stuff ran its course and by the time I was forty, it seemed natural. I made my CD when I was thirty-nine. It seemed like a natural progression that I had to do. I'm her musical director. Just being there and experiencing stuff from just being there and dealing with her management and just seeing how hard we worked in the beginning to get to a certain place. I learned what it takes. It wasn't a verbal exchange or anything, but sometimes you learn stuff in the environment. It wasn't like a mentor situation or anything like that.


FJ: Where does Melange, your Blue Note debut, figure alongside classic Blue Notes like Out to Lunch and Point of View?

LONNIE PLAXICO: Well, I feel like my record can really contribute in a lot of ways. A lot of the musicians in my age group, when they record music, basically, it is almost like they take the traditional approach to music and to me, in those days, Blue Note had a more fresher approach. Today, a lot of younger musicians are still trying to capture what was going on in the Fifties. My CD and my writing is not about trying to recreate what happened on the old Blue Note recordings and the majority of the artists on the label, I'm not saying all the artists are doing it, like Gonzalo (Rubalcaba), Greg Osby, but most musicians, they're trying to play jazz from the Fifties. I'm taking the approach that I'm still trying to keep the music challenging for the musicians, but making it more contemporary at the same time.


FJ: Let's not sugarcoat it. Most lions, young or old, aren't playing anything I haven't heard before.

LONNIE PLAXICO: Yeah, that is what I'm saying. I've played with Art Blakey, Dizzy, and Dexter Gordon. So I got a chance to play with people who were a part of the Blue Note label and they were allowed to continue to do that because they came from that generation and they were a novelty by the time I got to New York. So musicians my age, we have to create a whole other environment because we're not the same as them. We don't have any type of legacy and it's harder to create that. It's like trying to play basketball after Michael Jordan, like this guy has done so much, what are you going to do now? It is hard. Sometimes the pressure's from the media that has been put on younger musicians not to be original.


FJ: That's because most "critics" and "journalists" involved in this music were around when Charlie Parker reinvented the wheel. Jazz has more senior citizens writing about it than old timers playing it. A guy that came up doing something called the "foxtrot" isn't going to get Britney.

LONNIE PLAXICO: Yeah, they are pretty much telling the musicians what to do also. I think pop music, it's a more younger music and so the people around it are younger also. That music is successful, so they don't try to control the artists as much. Whereas jazz has been here for a while and some of the people dealing with it are over fifty years old. Bruce Lundvall of Blue Note, even though he's very open-minded, but the tradition, you're dealing with traditional music too that has been established. Also, the radio stations, people are like, "Is this traditional jazz or smooth jazz?" So it's more complicated.


FJ: Jazz radio is a joke.

LONNIE PLAXICO: Yeah, most of it is smooth jazz. You've got BGO (WBGO) in New York, but they don't want to hear nothing adventurous. The college radio stations are more open because there are more younger people handling the music. It's not a corporation. I think the best way to do it is to jump in a van and hit these large cities, small towns and get the music out there where people can hear it live and let them decide for themselves. At the same time, try to be aware of who you are playing for in the audience. We have preconceived ideals of what things are, but we don't really know until we get in front of the audience. Sometimes people say they want you to play jazz, but they're only talking about what they want and they don't know what the audience really wants. You just have to show your work and try to play as much as you can. The audience is getting younger anyway because the jazz greats, they died of natural causes or abuse to their bodies, but the people who supported that music are dying along with them. So there is turnover right now also.


FJ: These old birds have a way of hanging in there.

LONNIE PLAXICO: It's a lot younger than it used to be. That's probably why they want to hear more smooth jazz. It is more similar to pop music than traditional jazz.


FJ: What is it about the bass?

LONNIE PLAXICO: It is just being a supportive role in the music. It is like a center on a basketball team. You don't want to be doing the things that a guard would do. You want to be in the same place to keep certain things covered underneath the basket. When I was younger, I was thinking that I wanted to move the bass more up front, but now I'm trying to deal with just the limitations and the things that are naturally valuable to the instrument. As a composer, I have just a lot of fun writing for the horn parts and keep everything balanced.


FJ: Would you take a loss to get the music to the people?

LONNIE PLAXICO: Yes, I think anyone who has a band in the beginning is going to lose money. That's why a lot of people don't want to have a band. It's like starting your own business. You've really got to be feeling what you're doing and believing in what you're doing because you're going to lose money. I always tell my friends it is like opening up a corner store, just a little nickel and dime store on the corner. That is what it is in the beginning even though you have a major label behind you. You still have to go out and try to get people to hire your band and a lot of times, they only want to offer you to play for the door and so a lot of people are think you have to be crazy to do this. That is how you know why there are only so many millionaires in the world and hundreds of millions of people who are not millionaires. Some people are willing to do the work. It is not easy at all. It is easier for me to be somebody's bass player and just show up for the gig. Taking over a band is a nightmare.


FJ: Why do it?

LONNIE PLAXICO: I've been in New York for twenty years. I've played with everybody and I need to express more. I need to be in control. I want to be responsible for my career. I don't want to just have someone telling me where the gig is and what to play. It is a part of my continued growth as an artist and I've got to pay the price to do that. I'm never going to be satisfied playing behind Greg Osby or Herbie Hancock calling me. That's not going to do anything for me at this point in my life. I'm just taking responsibility. Time is still young to see what I have inside of me. I have confidence and I feel that is all I need right now. I have a major label behind me and now I have to go out and do the dirty work and see what happens. If it doesn't happen, I know I gave it a hundred percent and I can accept that.


FJ: Is Blue Note putting some money behind you?

LONNIE PLAXICO: They're not going to put no money behind it and even if they did, Fred, that's going to be my money. You have to pay the money back. It is better for me to try and make things happen on my own and show them I am serious about what I'm doing and not looking for any handouts. They are doing more than my other record company did as far as getting me some interviews. I just want to the grassroots thing. My manager, me and her both work together and book gigs through the internet and calling people. Pretty much I will be doing the driving. This is what they used to do a long time ago. I've played with a lot of bands and been a professional musician since I was fourteen since 1974. I've done what people say to do and everything has worked out the way it is supposed to without me having to work really hard. It is fun in a way because it is like taking control of your life. A lot of people, first thing they said was that it was good that I was on Blue Note because they would give me support. Do you ask your parents to pay your bills? I don't want to come to the record company like that. I need to sell records. Getting a major label is a curse and a blessing. If you don't sell records, they drop you. It is as simple as that. Once you get dropped from a major label, everybody knows it. So it is harder to get another label after that because they figure if Columbia couldn't help you, Blue Note couldn't help you, what makes you think we can help you? My thing is musically, I feel totally confident in myself and I am constantly learning to try and make things better.


FJ: Is this a one shot deal with Blue Note?

LONNIE PLAXICO: It's a one deal with six options. I have no problem with that because if they gave me a guarantee of six records and I don't sell the first record, I understand. They should drop me anyway. Why would they not? If you get married to somebody and you come to find out it is not working out, would you stay with that person? You want to get out of it.


FJ: So the blame and credit is to you.

LONNIE PLAXICO: It is. If I can't sell eight to ten thousand CDs, then I need to figure out what's going on with me also. Did I work hard enough? It is real political. To get a gig, when I try to work in the major clubs, they are more concerned about who is in the band. It is not even about music. That is the scary part about it. The promoters are more interested in who is in the group. They care. They care who is in the band. The more people you have in the band that is well known, the more money they offer you. For me, right now, I have a young band. They can play good, but I can't use this guy in Europe because no promoter would touch me at all if I bring in the young guys on the CD. I'm trying to use younger musicians on the gigs that it doesn't matter. It helps them build their name up. A lot of musicians just want to use well known musicians. You can't develop music with famous musicians because they have their own band and they don't want to be there anyway. They want to be doing their own thing.


FJ: Seems like a lot of work.

LONNIE PLAXICO: A whole lot. You've got to be crazy to do this. That's why a lot of musicians are crazy. You can't be normal.


Fred Jung is the Editor-In-Chief and is a hobbit in real life. Comments? Email Him