Courtesy of Joe Lovano







Blue Note

A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH JOE LOVANO


I have been fortunate enough to have had more than a handful of candid one on ones with Joe Lovano. What has always impressed me about the tenor man is not only the tremendous amount of talent and musicality that Lovano possesses, but his stark humility as well. At a time when Wynton Marsalis is doing infomerical-esque PBS specials (which has done little to create any interest in jazz outside of the mainstream media), Lovano has just created and created vast amounts of quality (and that is the key) music. I can't think of a Lovano album that isn't good. Perhaps not all of them are great, although many are, but all of them are good. That speaks volumes for a man that essentially is the same when I speak to him now as he was when we first spoke some years back. There is honor in being the finest all round tenor saxophonist in the music today. Not everyone has to crowned the spokesperson of jazz or the savior of jazz. Sometimes a person is just content with the music and that seems to be the case with Lovano. So I am deeply honored to present Joe Lovano, unedited and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: Let's start from the beginning.

JOE LOVANO: Well, I was born December 29, 1952. When I was really young, my dad, whose name was Tony Lovano, who was one of the major saxophonists, musicians around Cleveland, Ohio, first gave me some instruments. I was five or six years old. He gave me some alto saxophones and taught me the techniques of putting my reed on and how to get a little sound. By the time I was eleven or twelve, I was showing enough interest that I really got serious. I started playing the tenor saxophone around that age. Hearing him play my whole life, practicing, his record collection really was the spark. Through the years, when I was a teenager, I was trying to learn all the tunes I was hearing him play and things from records. By the time I was fifteen or sixteen, he was starting to take me around with him to rehearsals that he was in and I would listen to the band and before I knew it, I was starting to sit in and play with people in his generation. Throughout high school, I was playing a lot of gigs and starting to play with musicians in my dad's circle. I went to Berklee School of Music after high school, in Boston, 1971, and was in Boston for a few semesters and shortly after that started playing and touring. I moved to New York in 1976, but prior to that I had been on tour with one big band where we backed up Tom Jones. That was in 1973.


FJ: Quite a departure, to go from smoke-filled jazz clubs to the bright lights of Vegas.

JOE LOVANO: It was. My first two weeks with the band was at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas (laughing), but it was a full day. It was a full big band and strings and chorus behind Tom at that time. He was really on top at that period. It was a thrill to be on the road with such an amazing situation. Shortly after that, I joined Lonnie Smith, a great organist, Dr. Lonnie Smith and Brother Jack McDuff's ensemble. So 1974 and '75, I was touring a lot in the Mid-West and still living around Cleveland and kind of on the chitlin circuit is what they called it, all the clubs and things that were happening in the Mid-West where you would play places for two weeks at a time or ten days. We toured all through this area, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and New York. The first time I recorded in New York was with Lonnie Smith in 1974. My first recordings as a sideman were with Lonnie with George Benson and Ron Carter. Touring with McDuff was really great. It was the first time I toured with Willie Smith, a great alto saxophonist from Cleveland, who did the orchestrations for my most recent release now on Blue Note Records called 52nd Street Themes. Willie grew up with my dad and studied with Tadd Dameron and was one of his copyists in the Fifties and Forties around Cleveland. So when I did this recording with my new nonet for Blue Note, I contacted Willie and had him do the orchestrations for me, which was really fantastic. So I have a lot of connections with Cleveland, Fred. Roots are so important and luckily there have been a lot of beautiful blossoms and flowers that have been happening.


FJ: What were the benefits of working in organ ensembles?

JOE LOVANO: The full sound of playing with a B-3 organ. First of all, Fred, my tone was a saxophone player developed in a certain way because there was no big PA systems and stuff. We played pretty much organ, drums, and saxophone with no mic. And you have to play with a full sound to play up to the level of a B-3. So sound-wise it was really a beautiful learning experience. And at the time, when I was still in high school, most of my dad's groups were with organ. In the late Sixties, most of the clubs didn't have piano and most of the clubs my dad played, he had organ players, great players around Cleveland at the time. They played all the bass. They played a full orchestra on the organ out of the Jimmy Smith or Don Patterson school of playing. I'd say sound-wise, it really helped me develop a tone that I could blend with the fullness of the organ. Also, groove-wise, all those cats were so swinging, the way they had to play the bass and the changes and the groove really was what I learned how to play with and also playing in trio situations, you are playing with organ and drums and saxophone, so you really have to play with a real command of the song that you're playing and feed each other ideas. That school of playing was really great for me coming up. It prepared me to play in larger ensembles later when I started playing more big bands and had to project my sound within a saxophone section. I was used to playing with the fullness of the organ and playing with great players of my dad's
generation really taught me that because they were very strong, full musicians the way they played.


FJ: Cleveland is renown as a rock and roll. In your youth, did you have any inclination to be a rock star?

JOE LOVANO: Well, the whole rock and roll thing in Cleveland, Detroit and Cleveland, Motown was in Detroit. The scene in Cleveland was one of the first real rock and roll bands and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is here because I think the first deejay that coined the phrase rock and roll was on the radio here in Cleveland. As I was growing up, I graduated high school in '71, so that whole, all of the late Sixties with Motown and all of that music was very influential for me. I played in bands playing that music too. But hearing my dad play and getting into his records of Charlie Parker and Sonny Stitt and John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Lester Young, Ben Webster, I was introduced to a real sophisticated music and the challenge of playing Charlie Parker's music was, for me, Fred, that was light years ahead of all the rock and roll that I was hearing around me. I could actually step out from playing my part within the Motown band let's say and solo and create my own invention with the music because of the jazz that I was into and studying. I realized early on that there were some other kinds of things happening in music to reach for. That was always my goal was to be a soloist and try to express myself within the sophistication of the harmony and rhythm of jazz.


FJ: Influences?

JOE LOVANO: Well, the music that I really loved was Miles Davis' music and all of Miles' bands. My dad had a hip record collection of a lot of Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie and Bird with Miles and then Miles' own groups with Coltrane and the things he did with Thelonious Monk and those records were really my main influences. And then as I was learning and developing and going and buying my own records, John Coltrane's music became very important for me, Sonny Rollins, Thelonious Monk's music, and Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. And all the players that were on all those records, like if I bought a record that had Max Roach on drums, then I would go and look for Max Roach's records or look for other records that he played on. So then I started to bring recordings home as well into my dad's collection. But starting with his records, Sonny Stitt was one of my first real loves on record. And when I was a teenager, fifteen, sixteen, my dad was playing in a lot of clubs around Cleveland that alternate weeks would have a star group like Sonny Stitt or Rahsaan Roland Kirk, James Moody or Dizzy Gillespie. Maybe one week a month, they would have a star. Because my dad was playing in these places, I would go there. When I first heard Sonny Stitt play live, I might have been fifteen or sixteen years old, but I knew his sound from records and then sitting in a room with him was unbelievable, to hear that same sound. And then the next time, to go hear Gene Ammons play and hear another saxophone player have a totally different sound and approach, yet I knew his sound from the record. I recognized early on that the personality of the player was really the key and you can hear cats play the same tune, yet with a totally different attitude or approach and that inspired me to try and develop a sound of my own and to reach for those kinds of things.


FJ: What was some of the vinyl you bought?

JOE LOVANO: I remember buying Transitions, John Coltrane. That was one of the first major influential records that I bought myself, that I went out and brought home and played for my dad.


FJ: Your reaction to the record?

JOE LOVANO: Well, it was recorded just, it came out after Coltrane died. It was one of the first recordings that came out that was never released. It was recorded, I found out later, I think it was the session right after A Love Supreme. So it was a very important period in Coltrane's quartet, the way they were playing together, the compositions, and I was hip to A Love Supreme. My dad had that recording. And this one was one of the first that came out of an important recording session that was never released during Coltrane's lifetime. It made a big impact on me.


FJ: In the period you were at Berklee, John Scofield was there with you.

JOE LOVANO: Yeah, John and I were at Berklee at the same time in the early Seventies.


FJ: Was it a dead giveaway that Sco was going to become a monster player?

JOE LOVANO: Well, I think at that time, in the early Seventies, we both played with an attitude and a feeling within the music that we were studying and trying to play. John, at the time, I remember going and sitting in with him. He was playing in a quartet with Dave Samuels on vibes and I remember going to this club in Harvard Square and sitting in with them. That might have been one of the first times that we really played together in public, other than maybe a jam session at the school. But the one thing about John that was always there, Fred, was his feeling in the rhythm section. He didn't play like just a guitar player. He played with a real pianistic approach to comping, like the way he hit a groove behind you. He had a bounce in his feeling in the rhythm section. As a soloist, he always stepped out more as a horn player. He played more like a trumpet player or a saxophone player in his conception as a melodic player. So right away, we played melodies together like two horns, even back then. The way he comped was really the thing for me at that time because at that period, we were both more into the bebop language in a way. I, for sure, was. So I was used to playing more soloist, rhythm section stuff, where when I played, I played out front of the rhythm section during that time. John just hit such a beautiful groove in the rhythm section. He was one of the first guitar players that I ever played with that made me feel like I was playing with a piano player.


FJ: You have also worked in conjunction with Bill Frisell.

JOE LOVANO: Bill and I met at the same time that I met John Scofield.


FJ: All three of you were at Berklee together?

JOE LOVANO: We were at Berklee together. It was 1972. Those years in Boston had some really great, beautiful players that today have emerged as very serious. Now, Bill, at the time, had personality and the way he plays today grew from his approach back then. He played very different than John. He didn't play with a technique like a horn player. He played still with a wider, kind of open sound, the way he has developed today. We played at a few jam sessions together that were really fun. Bill has always been one of the most creative, inventive musicians that I have known and developed with through the years. We started playing with Paul Motian in 1981. And still today, we are playing with Paul in a number of things together.


FJ: And Jim Hall.

JOE LOVANO: Well, Jim is someone who is from Cleveland and someone who I grew up knowing his name my whole life. Jim knew my grandparents and stuff. In the early days, he went to the Cleveland Institute of Music and he was my dad's buddy that split Cleveland in the Fifties and went to play with Ella Fitzgerald, Ben Webster, and then Sonny Rollins and Bill Evans. My dad had a number of recordings that Jim was on after he split Cleveland. He was someone that I knew that my dad knew and I never had met. I only met Jim in the last fifteen years around New York. Jim would come around and hear us play with Paul Motian and Bill Frisell. That is really when we first met and started working together probably in the last eight or seven years. Now, we have a collective group called the Grand Slam with George Mraz on bass and Lewis Nash on drums and just recorded live in Boston at the Regattabar for Telarc. It is something that is going to come out later this year. It is my originals and Jim's. He is a thrill to play with. He is one of the most creative musicians of all time and has been a part of such beautiful interpretations of not only standard songs, but he was one of the first real free improvisers in jazz. The things he did with Jimmy Guiffre and Bob Brookmeyer are just incredible.


FJ: How is working with a guitar player different from playing with the conventional piano, bass, drums, and saxophone quartet?

JOE LOVANO: Sometimes there is a little more space. It is really the personality of the players. It is not so much the instrument for me. When you play with people that listen and react and are involved in the inner play of what is happening at the moment, it is not so much the instrument. It is the conception and the approach of the individual. But I find, in general, with guitar players, there could be a little bit more space sometimes and a quartet breaks down into two trios more often, but now, with the right piano player, that also happens. It is really up to the concept between the players. When you play with people that really listen to each other and play from the personalities of the group at the moment and it transcends the tune that you're playing or what you're playing. It becomes like a special moment within the personalities of the players.


FJ: How long has your tenure been with Blue Note?

JOE LOVANO: Really since 1990, '91. My first recording came out in '91. My new recording, 52nd Street Themes, is my first recording on this next series of recordings that I'm going to do for them.


FJ: I think Blue Note, visions of Birth of the Cool, Blue Train, and Speak No Evil dance in my head. So Rush Hour and From the Soul are in good company.

JOE LOVANO: Thank you, Fred. Joe Henderson, Wayne Shorter, Hank Mobley, Lee Morgan, Art Blakey, those cats really inspired me to not only get myself together, but to really be serious about recording and have every recording be a statement about not just what you're playing, but who you're playing with and how you play together. I mean, every one of Wayne Shorter's records is a gem and each one is about the personnel. He wrote the music for the ensemble that he was going to record. Wayne has been a real big inspiration as a composer and the way he presented himself. He's opened a door for us today to be creative. Wayne is just something else, Fred.


FJ: Don't sell yourself short.

JOE LOVANO: Well, the thing is Fred, I'm trying to draw from my personal history and where I am right now as a player, I have a rich history to draw from, playing with different ensembles and players from different directions in jazz, just in the larger groups I've played with, Woody Herman and Mel Lewis, with Brookmeyer, Carla Bley, Charlie Haden's Liberation Music Orchestra. The combination of those things have led me to do recordings with Gunter Schuller or putting ensembles together for the Sinatra recording with strings and woodwinds and voice. The nonet is a direct link with playing with other horn players and trying to mix it up and create something, some energy with players that you're dealing with. My trio stuff, the duets, and the quartet things with Tom Harrell, those are direct results also from playing with Paul Motian and exploring more freer music. I think every player really has his own personal history to draw from and if you draw from that instead of what somebody else did, your music is going to be richer.


FJ: Let's touch on your latest Blue Note release, 52nd Street Themes.

JOE LOVANO: It is all cats that I have been coming up with and playing with for a long time. The rhythm section with Hicks (John Hicks), Dennis Irwin, and Lewis Nash, we've played as a quartet live at the Vanguard and other places together, just as a quartet. So to have that rhythm section as a foundation for this nonet or any other combination of horns I want to put together with horns from the nonet was just so beautiful and relaxed. We can play anything together.


FJ: Why choose this point in your career to present a large ensemble project?

JOE LOVANO: Well, it is something that over the last year and a half or something that I've been preparing. Willie Smith, who I mentioned before, did the orchestrations for me and Willie is somebody that is so beautiful, Fred, just as a musician and someone who hasn't been doing that much in the public eye for a while. I felt like I developed myself to a point to put a band together with my peers and a new ensemble, a nonet, where it could breakdown into different sextets and quartets, different combinations. We're going to play a week at the Vanguard coming up now, the week of May 16 and throughout the summer and into the fall, hopefully we're going to have some concerts where we are going to present some of this music. The thing that is so great is to be able to put a band together and be able to explore some music and get into some things. I love playing with other horn players and feeding off each other. It creates new music when you put different people together, the different personalities and that really led me to try to do something like this. My working trio with Cameron Brown and Idris Muhammad has been my main group since Trio Fascination came out. We're still touring as a trio. We have a lot of stuff coming up now. We've been playing a lot as a trio. I think playing as a trio has been so great. It's inspired me to have a few gigs where I can bring other horn players up too and create some other kind of magic.


FJ: And the future?

JOE LOVANO: Well, I'm working on another trio recording, Trio Fascination, Edition Two. I called the first one, Edition One, to open up the door for other trio combinations. And over the last year, I've played a number of gigs with different trios that I am going to try and document now. One, very special one with Kenny Werner on piano and Toots Thielemans on harmonica, we played a week in New York at the Iridium about six months ago that was an amazing series of sets just with the three of us. So I want to try and document that trio. My working trio with Cameron and Idris will be one. A couple of trios what I have been playing with down at the Knitting Factory with more of a downtown group of players, Joey Baron on drums, who also goes back to the Boston period in the Seventies and Billy Drews on woodwinds. Billy plays on my Celebrating Sinatra recording, alto and soprano and clarinet. So we're going to do trio with woodwinds and drums and then some things with Dave Douglas and Mark Dresser on bass, where I'm going to play drums and percussion as well, with trumpet, saxophone, percussion, and bass.


FJ: You play drums on occasion.

JOE LOVANO: I've played percussion and drums throughout my lifetime. I really recorded on Rush Hour some things and on the Gonzalo Rubalcaba duets, I play drums and percussion with Gonzalo playing in concert for that recording. I try to create some situations where I can do that. So I am going to be playing some of that with Toots and Kenny as well as the trio with Dave Douglas and Mark Dresser.


FJ: You were one of the first players to debut the straight tenor.

JOE LOVANO: Straight tenor, yeah, and the alto clarinet. The thing is that I have grown up with a real confidence about trying to study music and my dad gave me a lot of horns and taught me how to play with other people. Coming up as a saxophone player, preparing yourself to play with big bands, I mean, I studied flute and clarinet as a kid. The saxophone was always my love and what I tried to play. The clarinet was something that came much later. I started playing flute when I was in tenth grade and in high school and that is something that I've tried to develop my whole life, is study all the wood flutes. And from traveling around the world and playing in Asia and Africa and the Middle East and in Europe, I've collected quite a few instruments on my travels that I really work on and play with a certain fashion and have developed them to a point where I feel like I express myself and I've been trying to do that on my recordings.


FJ: Let me be the first to suggest a box set of your material.

JOE LOVANO: Well, we will have to let Mr. Bruce Lundvall know (laughing).


Fred Jung is Jazz Weekly's Editor-In-Chief and wants a box set of Lovano's Blue Note stuff. Comments?  Email Fred.