Courtesy of Billy Harper







Black Saint

A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH BILLY HARPER


Billy Harper is the Black Saint. A tenor with grace and elegance in his personality to match his fire and brimstone on the bandstand, Harper possesses all the intensity of Coltrane, yet has a gentle easiness about him. Somalia is one of the most complete recordings in recent memory and I was honored to have a brief one on one with Harper to talk about the recording, his new release on Metropolitan Records, as well as his days with the late Gil Evans. As always, it is brought to you unedited and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: Let's start from the beginning.

BILLY HARPER: I was fortunately part of a musical family, so I started singing before I could walk actually. So my first thing was singing. The music sort of permeated and got into my whole being. From the very beginning, I was going to be into music. By the time I was eleven, I used to pass by this music shop and look at the saxophones because I was sort of enchanted with the saxophone. I just didn't know what was happening with all those notes and so forth. I was just a little boy and I would just look at the horn every day. Although music was still my thing and I was thinking at the time that I probably would sing. I just got interested in looking at the horn because of all those notes. I couldn't figure out how in the world somebody could play those things. Later, I had been talking to the family and asking constantly for a horn. I was able to get one at Christmas as a surprise. That is how I started on the saxophone. During that time, before eleven, I was singing at church and at secular events, contests, talent contests. At eleven, when I got the horn, I joined a band, the junior high band, elementary band and got a little more interested in it. Still at that time, I was still singing and playing. By the time I got to high school, I got interested in drama also. Even today, I have kept up with my drama and speaking instructor. I had also an uncle who was very directive and helpful in getting me started in the right direction concerning jazz in particular. That is sort of how I got started.


FJ: During the Fifties, everyone wanted to be like Bird, why did you opt for the tenor rather than the alto?

BILLY HARPER: Oh, yeah, that's what I saw when I was eleven. I saw the tenor. The alto was probably in that window, but I didn't see the alto (laughing).

FJ: So it was destiny.

BILLY HARPER: Yeah, that is the one I saw. That's the one I cued on and that was it! That was the one.

FJ: Influences?

BILLY HARPER: Every time someone asks that, I can tell them a very quick answer, but really, the strongest influence was the church. The strongest influence in my playing turns out to be the church. I went to A. M. E. Church and the soul of the music that I have done and am doing now, really comes from there. As I grew and discovered things, I realized that musicians were connected and they would connect with this soulful feeling that's from the church, including Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder.

FJ: Let's touch on your work with Gil Evans.

BILLY HARPER: I'm glad you mentioned Gil, Fred, because that is one of the special souls that I had a chance to relate to when I was coming up. When I first came to New York, yes, I happened to have met him accidentally on the street. I ran into Gil Evans on the street and I said, "Mr. Evans, let me introduce myself. I'm Billy Harper. I play tenor saxophone. I hope, if there is ever a chance that you need somebody for a rehearsal, give me a call." And I gave him the number, my phone number. That is really how we met. I told him that I was certainly an admirer of his music and his orchestration and his ability to arrange like that and maybe in the future, we could study together. He said, "Well, I wouldn't know how to teach." That's what he said. I hadn't heard from him. Musicians in New York exchange numbers like that and it means nothing. They probably throw the numbers away. But after a year, almost a year, I got a ring on the phone and he told me that he had a rehearsal. I came down to the rehearsal and I was working with him from that time. The way I learned from him was being around him. He was a very sensitive and special soul. He wasn't a teacher or business musician or organized kind of music. He was really like a floating soul, sort of a free soul, free spirit. I learned a lot, just from his sensitivity, that was a way of learning. I learned that in Gils area, you had to lend yourself to the sensitive side of expression as well as directive side. I was mainly on the directive side, concerned with form and intent. That is still important, but I learned how to be a lot more sensitive in relation to the music.

FJ: Are you sensitive to the music now?

BILLY HARPER: I think so. I hope anyway that I have learned how to combine both. Some of my stuff will be very strong, very powerful, and yet, sensitive at the same time.

FJ: And your tenure as a member of Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers.

BILLY HARPER: Art Blakey was an institution. Everybody says that too. Art Blakey was the Art Blakey Institution. That's the way they refer to him. Blakey was such a, more on the directive side now, that direction, drive, and powerful playing. I was ready for him when I got into his band. I think he might have asked me to sit in because I was dressed. I sat in and after that, I was working in his band, period. It was like going to school because at that time, it was more important for me to learn professionalism about what was happening. Musically, everything was happening and when he played, it was going to be happening, but his thing was so professional and that was a lot of what was happening with him. So we were able to travel. That helped a lot. Traveling helped me learn about the professionalism. I traveled to Japan. I first went to Japan with him in '67, I think, then to California, to Europe, many places.

FJ: Who were the other Messengers during your stay with the band?

BILLY HARPER: Well, there was three kinds of bands I was in with Blakey, different members. When I first got in there, McCoy Tyner was on piano, McCoy Tyner and Slide Hampton on trombone. That was a different band and it was not recorded either, but we did travel. We traveled to Europe. That was a strong band. After McCoy left, there was Ronnie Matthews on piano, Bill Hardman on trumpet, and Julian Priester on trombone. We went to Japan with that group and also around the world. After that, the band that I was in with Blakey was Woody Shaw on trumpet and myself. It did change from time to time. I was very lucky and very fortunate to work with Blakey, a driving force, driving force, a power, and that is my style. That is what I liked.

FJ: Let's touch on your debut recording as a leader, Capra Black for the impossible to find Strata East label.

BILLY HARPER: I think that that was the perfect stepping stone because that album is still strong. You may not find it in the States, but I think people have seen the CD in some places in Europe and in Japan. It is still very strong, very powerful. The music was really powerful and strong, but I had some strong players on there too. We had a chorus on one side. On one side, some of the songs included a chorus. On the other side, all instrumental, but Elvin Jones was on that album, Julian Priester and Reggie Workman was on that. That album is still strong and people still ask me about that. I have not seen it much in the States, but it is one in the collector's item category.

FJ: And Black Saint, which set in motion the label of the same name.

BILLY HARPER: Yeah, you know, Fred, another thing that happened with that was since the title of the album that we did was Black Saint and it was also the name of the record company, other companies throughout the years have caught onto that idea and they think in a way they come to me because they want to have the same effect. I think it had a very positive effect with that company. I remember two other companies coming and having me be the first to start their company (laughing). Particularly a Japanese company because they are aware of those things happening. The producer was just suggesting, "Why don't we call this Black Saint or something?" I didn't have a preference. So that is how it developed and we called it Black Saint.

FJ: It is an important work in regards to modal jazz.

BILLY HARPER: A lot of students actually ask me about that in particular because of what you're saying. Well, there is something that we did in 9/4 on there and sometimes I teach at New School and we also try to do a new version of the 9/4 even now. Sometimes I still play it. There was something on there that was very interesting I suppose for music learners, listeners.

FJ: I few years ago, I was in the audience when you opened the jazz festival at my alma mater, the University of Southern California, with "Soran Bushi-B.H."

BILLY HARPER: Yeah, that was an interesting thing too. I wrote it years later, but when I first went to Japan with Art Blakey, is the first time I heard the folk song, which was done nothing like the way I do it. The first time I heard that was in Japan and it was from the northern part of Hokkaido, around Sapporo. The fishermen do this song. It is like a like we would do in the States like "London Bridge is Falling Down." I heard some soulful things in that and to me, it related to some expressions and feelings that I heard in the black church. It stuck with me for years when I came back from Japan, after being with Blakey. After some years, I went back to that song and then developed it in my style, which comes out to be "Soran Bushi-B.H."

FJ: And lastly, Somalia.

BILLY HARPER: The album itself is very strong again. That tune is easy for everyone to hear, I believe. It seems to be easy for everybody to hear. At that time, in doing the album, the reason that I named the title Somalia too was because I was thinking a lot about the situation in Somalia and what was happening and how people were ignoring that. I wanted to bring some attention to that and so I named it that. But it is very African style tune, African rhythm feeling. A lot of people have responded to that well as that particular tune.

FJ: A regular member of your quintet, Eddie Henderson appears on the album.

BILLY HARPER: Eddie is just an excellent musician. People probably know him from the time he played with Herbie Hancock, but he was always such a superb musician. I think during that time, he may have drifted towards the more commercial area and people kind of lost track of him a little bit. But now that he is on the East Coast, they know a little bit more about him. Even when we're not working, he is still working with other groups and his group. He is just quite an excellent musician and I'm sure people are going to hear more and more about him.

FJ: One of my pet peeves is the fact that major record labels have failed to document the work of Billy Harper, Elvin Jones, Cecil Taylor, Dewey Redman, and James Newton.

BILLY HARPER: Well, in my case, since there is not a large record company doing a lot of promotion, a lot of people in the States still don't know about my music in particular. So we have to do some extra push I suppose and that is why they formed a Billy Harper Fan Club that is located on Baltimore. They try to do what some of the record companies have not done and try to get the music out more.

FJ: Give me the website address.

BILLY HARPER: The website is www.jazzcorner.com/harper.html. There are a lot of things to find out once you go there. A lot of people didn't know that I was still around even. They have found out by going to the website. They show many of the things that have been recorded that people are not even aware of.

FJ: What is on tap for Billy Harper?

BILLY HARPER: Somalia is still close to me and so it seems like yesterday, but there was there was another album after Somalia called If Our Hearts Could Only See. That was done on DIW. That one is much more sensitive because there are some different things on there and although I have my usual driving stuff on there too, but this one is the most different one that I have done. It is certainly not commercial, but it is softer in a way. Then there is a new CD coming out this May, May 9 called Soul of an Angel. This is on Metropolitan Records, a US company and so it will be available in the States a lot more than others that people don't even know about or had a chance to hear. I hope people go to the website and order them from the fan club.

Fred Jung is Jazz Weekly's Editor-In-Chief and is a Budweiser frog. Comments?  Email Fred.