courtesy of Chico Hamilton







Joyous Shout!

A FIRESIDE CHAT WITH CHICO HAMILTON


Eric Dolphy and Charles Lloyd are two of my personal favorites and Dolphy has long been in the Roadshow's Valhalla. It is difficult to argue that Dolphy and Lloyd would have become who know them to be if it were not for Chico Hamilton. Hamilton, a native of Los Angeles, gave both of them their breaks. Both gained substantial recognition in his quintet and gone onto become in Dolphy's case a legend and cult figure and in Lloyd's case, a lucrative recording career. And yet, Hamilton has been deprived of such accolades and fanfare. Such things bother me and so I asked Hamilton to guest on the Roadshow and this is our conversation, as always, unedited and in his own words.


FRED JUNG: Do you miss Los Angeles?

CHICO HAMILTON: It's a good question. Not really. I miss some of the people. I miss my family and that type of thing. I don't know whether you realize it or not, Fred, but Los Angeles has changed tremendously. From the time I grew up as a kid and things like that, but the overall things, as far as the entertainment aspect of it, the music aspect of it, it has changed considerably. I haven't really heard anything in the jazz idiom that has come out of Los Angeles since I left. There has been a lot of good pop stuff, a lot of good rock stuff, rhythm and blues stuff, but I haven't heard any jazz.


FJ: That's a far cry from your high school that calls Dexter Gordon, Illinois Jacquet, and Charles Mingus as alumnus.

CHICO HAMILTON: Yeah, Fred, we were all ambitious just like any young dudes, any kids. We had our heroes and the people that we worshipped and we wanted to be like them or play like them. We were inspired by them and the beautiful thing about it then, those people like Jo Jones and Prez (Lester Young), people like that, they reached out and they helped you. They helped people like me and Dexter. They gave us a lot of confidence.


FJ: Is that kind of mentoring void from jazz now?

CHICO HAMILTON: Yes. Yes, as a matter of fact, Fred, the only time I really see, I teach at the New School. I teach in the jazz department and the only camaraderie I see is with these students within themselves. Outside of that, I don't know. Do to the fact that I don't hang out anymore. I don't hang out in the joints and things like that, so I really wouldn't know whether or not guys had that same kind of camaraderie.


FJ: How is today's attitude different?

CHICO HAMILTON: Well, we didn't consider it competition. If you could play, you could play and if you couldn't play, you would try to get somebody to help you, to show you how to play. Not so much to teach you, but to show you and to hip you up to what life was all about. Today, unfortunately, I guess a young musician has to decide which kind of groove he wants to get into, whether he wants to be a rock and roller or a holy roller or a rap artist or whatever. We didn't have, that was no problem back then with us because there was only one type of thing, Fred, and that was swing. There was only one particular type of music and it was all jazz.


FJ: You served in this country's armed forces, what branch of the military were you in?

CHICO HAMILTON: Man, I carried a gun. I had a rifle. I was in the infantry in the Army for five years.


FJ: Did you see any action?

CHICO HAMILTON: Only where I was from time to time. They eventually put me in the band, the 173rd and we went all over the country raising money selling war bonds and things like that. I have some very bad memories of the Army. As a matter of fact, when Jo Jones and Lester Young came to my camp as inductees, they wouldn't even allow them, and you wouldn't believe this, Fred, they wouldn't even consider putting them in the band. Man, that just turned me off completely. They had guys in that band, forty-five piece marching band and they had guys in there that didn't even know how to hold their instrument. That is that Army thing. As a matter of fact, I don't even want to talk about it.


FJ: Let's touch on your time with Lena Horne.

CHICO HAMILTON: Eight years. It was a tremendous experience, a fantastic experience because keeping time for her, I had the very distinctive pleasure of being annoying to her husband Lennie Hayton, who eventually, sort of became my mentor. He was an unbelievable musician, a fantastic composer/arranger, and I, along with Lennie and Luther Henderson, people like that, Billy Strayhorn. I had a chance to really meet and get along with Duke. It also turned me onto showbiz, which was completely different from the music business at that time, being a dude that played drums, being a musician and going into the showbiz aspect was really different.


FJ: You were a member of Gerry Mulligan's celebrated pianoless quartet.

CHICO HAMILTON: Gerry, we were friends and I feel as much as everything has been said and written about the quartet, the original quartet, I think it was just four guys being at the right place at the right time. That is the way I feel about it. As a matter of fact, Fred, it all started in my living room, my living room, not anybody else's. It started in my living room because I was working with Charlie Barnet at the time and Lena was in Europe and I didn't go with her to Europe at that year and I was working with Charlie. Gerry had just come into Los Angeles. He had hitchhiked his way to Los Angeles and he was cleaning himself up and getting his act together and we became friends. I would take him home for dinner and my wife used to make dinner for us and things like that and we just hung out. As a matter of fact, he would come out and hang out in the joint where we were playing and he told me that if he were Charlie Barnet, he would fire my ass (laughing). We got together and when he decided that he was going to put a group together, he told me, he says, "Hey, I am going to put a group together," and he turned me onto Chet. I had seen Chet before when he was with Bird and Bob Witlock, who I didn't know at all. It all started in my living room. As you know, it made history of some sorts.


FJ: Eric Dolphy gained prominence as a member of your quintet.

CHICO HAMILTON: Eric Dolphy was one of the most beautiful human beings that I've ever been associated with or have known. He was a fantastic young man. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and he was total music. He was a total musician. Man, when we were traveling, he would be in the backseat of the car and he would have his instrument out without the mouthpiece and he would be fingering his horn. He was constantly music. Needless to say, Fred, I was very fond of him and his family. As a matter of fact, there has been a lot of rumors about how he came about. My brother, Bernie, the actor, Bernie Hamilton (Starsky and Hutch), he turned me onto Eric. It wasn't Buddy Collette. My brother Bernie turned me onto Eric. When Paul Horn was leaving, I told Bernie that I was looking for a saxophone player and so he turned me onto Eric.


FJ: Charles Lloyd was in a version of your quintet as well.

CHICO HAMILTON: Charles (long pause), I don't have too much to say about Charles Lloyd.


FJ: And Gabor Szabo?

CHICO HAMILTON: Gabor grew into a giant. When he first started playing with me, all of them really hadn't found themselves. The fact that I had the patience and knowing that it takes patience and fortitude to develop musically, they had an opportunity to develop, to become themselves, to find their own voice. Gabor, he was a real gypsy. To this day, no one has a sound like Gabor, no one, no one.


FJ: Your classic album, The Dealer on the Impulse! label, is there any significance to the title?

CHICO HAMILTON: It was sort of like a used car lot dealer with the cigarette and everything. That was the idea of it (laughing). When you stop to consider, Fred, nobody was playing like that or at least recording like that at that time, no jazz group anyway. It was ahead of its time. As a matter of fact, from the first trio record I made, stands up today.


FJ: Why is he not recognized for his originality?

CHICO HAMILTON: Well, probably the same reason why I'm not more recognized. I don't have a press agent or PR people and things like that. I have always been my own man so a lot of people don't like that.


FJ: Why don't you have a press agent or a PR firm knocking down the doors for magazine covers?

CHICO HAMILTON: I don't know, Fred, in all honesty. I really don't know. I will tell you what, Fred, I am blessed and being blessed makes up for it. After all these years and even today, I'm still able to play and I play my music. I play what I want to play and people come to hear me do what I do, not for me to play Miles Davis or Ellington or Basie or somebody else's music. I play my own. The reward is that I am still able to play. You dig? Anytime I play, if you hear any one of my records, people will say, "Who is that?" "Oh, that is Chico." "Oh, yeah. He don't sound like anybody else." Every now and then, I get lucky and people like you will call me to interview me.


FJ: Let's touch on your last release, Timely.

CHICO HAMILTON: It was timely. It was timely (laughing). It was dynamite. It was a very good album. Musically, I thought it was very contemporary, very today.


FJ: Eric Person has certainly grown in your band.

CHICO HAMILTON: The years that Eric spent with me, he's now got his own thing going. But here again, he had a chance to find his voice, to find his sound, to find his feelings. Paul Ramsey, who is the bassist, is unbelievable. We're still together. Cary de Nigris, we're still together. I've got two new horns with me now, two former students of mine that are now playing with me, Erik Lawrence and then Evan Schwam, a tenor player. This kid, you have no idea, Fred, this kid, Evan must be about nineteen or twenty-one at the most and he is white, but he plays just like Jug (Gene Ammons). I've never heard a young saxophone player play like Jug, Gene Ammons and then Prez. He swings. He swings. He's unbelievable. You're going to hear him on my new album.


FJ: Let's talk about the new album due out on the Koch label.

CHICO HAMILTON: It is coming out in May, Fred. So far, the people that have heard it are flipping over it. They're flipping over it. And I have some guests on there, Steve Turre and his wife (Akua Dixon, cello), Arthur Blythe, Charlie Watts, and John Popper and Eric Schenkman.


FJ: John Popper from Blues Traveler.

CHICO HAMILTON: That's right. Eric Schenkman from, what was the name of that group? It is a rock group.


FJ: Spin Doctors.

CHICO HAMILTON: Spin Doctors, yeah. He was a student of mine too. It is going to be dynamite. I hope they submit it to the Grammy people and let them hear it. It should be considered anyway.

Fred Jung is the Editor-In-Chief and broadcasts from the basemant of the Howard Stern building. Email Him.