IF YOU GO TO A JAZZ CLUB THESE DAYS, ALMOST ALL OF THE ARTISTS HAVE BEEN EDUCATED THROUGH A MAJOR UNIVERSITY OR AT ONE OF THOSE $50K A YEAR ‘MUSIC SCHOOLS,’ OF WHICH WE WON’T MENTION ANY NAMES.
THERE’S NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH THIS, BUT AS LOUIS ARMSTRONG ONCE SAID OF A MUSICIAN, ‘HE WAN’T IN SCHOOL LONG ENOUGH TO RUIN HIS PLAYING.’ IN OTHER WORDS, WHILE A MODERN EDUCATION MAY MAKE YOU A TECHNICAL WIZARD ON YOUR INSTRUMENT, AS THEY SAY ABOUD DOCTORS, ‘YES, BUT CAN HE HEAL?’
CAN THE CURRENT GENERATION OF JAZZ ARTISTS PLAY WITH CREATIVITY, MELODY AND, DARE I SAY IT, SWING?
ONE OF THE LAST OF THE OLD GUARD IS GLENN ZOTTOLA. HE ISN’T EVEN THE AGE OF GUYS LIKE HERBIE HANCOCK OR WAYNE SHORTER, BUT HE WENT THE OLD SCHOOL ROUTE OF TOURING WITH BIG BANDS SUCH AS CLAUDE THORNHILL, BEING A SIDEMAN FOR BENNY GOODMAN AND LOADS OF VOCALISTS, AND DEVELOPED HIS OWN SOUND AND STYLE IN THE PROCESS.
HE’S STILL RELEASING HIS OWN ALBUMS WHICH REFLECT AN ATTITUDE LOST ON TODAY’S MUSICIANS, FOCUSING ON TONE, MELODY AND BEAUTY IN A DAY OF STERILE TECHNIQUE.
WE RECENTLY RAN IN WITH THE OLD SOUL OF AN ARTISTS, AND HERE ARE HIS REFLECTIONS.
HOW DID YOU FIRST GET INTERESTED IN JAZZ?
I come from a family of musician; my dad was a fantastic trumpet player, conductor and arranger. He arranged for Claude Thornhill’s band in the 40s. There’s a famous Thornhill arrangement of “Autumn Nocturne” that’s his. He was in the band with Gil Evans and they were doing arrangements.
He was a wonderful musician, and my mother played the piano like Count Basie. Stride. My sister’s a singer-piano player and my brother is a trumpet player, so we were a musical family. It was all around me; I remember being in the crib and hearing my dad rehearsing a big band in the living room!
YOU PLAY BOTH SAX AND TRUMPET, JUST LIKE BENNY CARTER. WHICH IS YOUR FIRST LOVE?
My first instrument is the trumpet; there were trumpets all over the place in the house. When I went to school I thought everyone played the trumpet.
I was listening a lot to Clifford Brown and Miles (Davis). I also loved Sonny Rollins and early John Coltrane, they were the tenor players for those trumpet albums. It inspired me to play the saxophone. I was 13 years old, and was already endorsing for an instrument company. I called the president and asked “Can you send me a tenor saxophone?” and he did. I was inspired by the different voice of Coltrane, Rollins and Harold Land on these albums.
WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST MAJOR GIG?
When I was 17 my first band was Glenn Miller’s. Buddy DeFranco was leading it. I didn’t like the music that much, but I loved buddy. He was a ball and we hit it off ; he was a bebopper. He hated the gig-he was going through a divorce and he needed the money.
In French Lick, Indiana, this lady comes up to him and starts pulling on his coat, saying “Where’s Glenn Miller? I paid to see Glenn Miller!” Buddy politely said “Ma’am, he died.” “How long ago?” “Forty Years!”
MUST HAVE BEEN A KENNY G FAN.
Right. Being on the rode on the bus was an eye-opener for me. I left and went right out and over to Lionel Hampton.
People ask me how I get work. I don’t know; the phone rings. My family was in the business and my name was circulating around. I got his gig, and it took me three hours to quit it.
I was locked into Hampton’s suite in Manhattan, and he said, “Gates! I love your playing! What do you want, more solo?” I just told him I had to leave. It was a hard, hard gig.
That gig I think paid $50 a night, and you had to pick up your own hotel room! (laughs) And Hampton is like an animal; he would fill in the day with weddings and not pay us any extra bread. I thought this was ridiculous and couldn’t believe the other guys were going for it. Doing an afternoon and a night gig, “Flying Home” for three hours. It was crazy, so I left.
I loved the music, especially after Glenn Miller. Those charts; he had his original book.
But I gotta tell you; I’ve never really been a “section” guy in a big band. I’ve always been a soloist, a guy out front. That’s the way I was groomed, so sitting in a trumpet section, as good as it is, it’s not my thing to play solos here and there.
YOU WERE GIVEN A LOT OF FREEDOM WHEN BENNY GOODMAN HIRED YOU.
Goodman’s band was a septet. Three horns in front were playing jazz. I loved that for those two years!
That was a fantastic experience. What a band, with Buddy Tate/ts, John Bunch/g, Major Holley/b and Connie Kay/dr.
I got a call from John (Bunch) one day. “Benny needs a trumpet player; can you come to the Astor Hotel right away?” I said “sure,” and I go down there. Benny doesn’t say a word, and all the guys are there. We jam for about forty minutes. He comes up to me and asks “Can you leave tomorrow to go on the road with me?”
I knew that he had a very good trumpet player in Jack Sheldon, so I tried to be polite.”I thought you already had a trumpet player.” He answered “I didn’t ask you that; can you leave tomorrow?” (laughs)
I said “sure,” and we went out. I get to the gig and we’re ready to go on and I say to Connie Kay, “Connie, are there any charts?” He says “Ah, yeah” and he reaches into his trap case, pulls out this old, ripped brown piece of paper. It was the last 16 bars of “Undecided.” A riff. He said to me “here are your charts.” I got the message; there were no arrangements.
But the first night out, I couldn’t believe it. Benny was a tough customer. He wasn’t the most friendly guy like a Count Basie. He gets up to the microphone and says “ I just want to tell everyone before this young man does this feature. I found this young man on trumpet,” and then he listed all the trumpet players he’s had like Harry James, Cootie Williams, and he went on and on…”I just want to tell you people that this young man can hold his own with any one of them. “
I almost couldn’t play after that.
DID HE EVER GIVE YOU ANY MUSICAL OR CAREER ADVISE?
Never, and we played together for 2 years. It was a great gig, however.
DID YOU EVER FEEL THAT BENNY WAS COASTING OR TAKING IT EASY ON STAGE?
Benny never coasted. He played his ass off. There would be nights where he would wave the rhythm section off and on a song as fast as “The World Is Waiting For The Sunrise” and he would play three or for choruses with just Cal Collins on guitar, and I swear that the intensity didn’t drop one bit without or with the rhythm section; his time was so good. I was right next to him in the front line. It was a real education for me. That was worth four years of college.
DID ANY OF THE BANDS YOU WORK WITH HAVE LONG OR INTENSE REHEARSALS?
It was all “show up and you’d better play.”
Bob Wilbur’s band was a little more rehearsal oriented. I was doing this Smithsonian gig for Bob, and I’m an “ear” player, right? I don’t know anything about chords. I can read enough to play in a big band, but I don’t even know what key I’m improvising in.
So, we’re doing “A History of Jazz,” beginning with Louis Armstrong and ending with Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. Bob puts this sheet of music on my stand, and its Dizzy Gillespie’s solo on “Shaw ‘Nuff.” There were so many notes on this page that I couldn’t even see any white. I just close my eyes, and I’ve got the idea of Dizzy, and I played this solo. All of the guys came up afterwards and said “You nailed Dizzy’s solo!”
Bob is looking at me and I know that he knew I didn’t play it, but he didn’t say anything and he never put another piece of sheet music in front of me again.
THIS BRINGS UP ANOTHER POINT ABOUT “CLASSIC” OR “TRADITIONAL” JAZZ. WHY DO YOU THINK MAGAZINES LIKE DOWNBEAT TEND TO IGNORE THE KIND OF MUSIC THAT WAS POPULAR IN THE SWING ERA AND BEFORE?
People just want what is most recent. And it’s unfortunate. I’ve been ranting about this for years.
You go into a museum, and you’re going to see everybody in there. Van Gogh, Michelangelo, Da Vinci and you’re going to see Picasso, right? You go into the classical music world, and you wouldn’t dare say, “Bach and Mozart are old hat and old fashioned.” Even if they felt it; they would be thrown out of the group.
Jazz is a different story, and I’m in disagreement with it. In the pop world, I get it that “the latest and the greatest” is what it’s all about. Even the latest iphone and technology, that’s fine. But in art it’s not that way. There’s no such thing as “old” in art. I think that mentality has really hurt the music.
We have an evolution here. Guys used to look into my eyes, guys like Milt Hinton, and they’d have a twinkle in their eye as they’d tell me “Try to keep this music alive. We’ve spent our whole lives forwarding this art form. “ I’ve tried.
Wynton Marsalis said it well when he said “the difference between the classical musician and the jazz musician is that the jazz musician has no respect for the history of the music. Therefore, each generation gets weaker.”
I was just watching a Youtube video of Sarah Vaughan in 1967 in Germany. It was so beautiful and romantic. I was mesmerized. Today there is no romance or melody in jazz. As much as everyone has incredible chops (which I respect), where is the melody? It’s insane.
YOU PLAYED WITH TORME’, SINATRA, ELLA AND EVEN BOB HOPE. WHAT MAKES A GREAT SINGER, AND WHERE ARE THEY NOWADAYS?
Phrasing, man. Phrasing. I always try to have the approach of singing through the horn. Every great jazz player from Louis Armstrong to Charlie Parker to Miles…when they play a ballad… Stan Getz, Clifford Brown…they can phrase their ass off.
I don’t hear that today. I can guarantee you; I’d love to put some of these current players on a stage (I’m not going to mention any names) and just say, “Play me a song. Play me a melody. Make me cry.” They can’t.
I don’t blame them; I blame the jazz education world of colleges.
AND NOW YOU’RE A JUDGE FOR THE GRAMMYS. WHAT DO YOU TAKE WITH YOU WHEN YOU JUDGE FOR THEM?
Any award show is a business; they’re looking at the numbers and they have major players involved. Jazz isn’t even on the camera when they do the awards. It’s done someplace else.
You have people that are not musicians that are deciding what is and isn’t jazz. I respect what they are doing there, but “jazz by committee” isn’t my thing.
I’m from another world. The wonderful thing about the bandstand is that it’s a level playing field. You get up on the stand and you can either play and swing or you can’t. And nothing you say or do or no pr is going to get you out of it. You either shut up and play, or leave.
LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR ALBUMS. YOU’VE PUT OUT A BUNCH OF THEM LATELY. WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS ON THE CLIFFORD BROWN ALBUMS, LIKE THE ONE WITH STRINGS REVISITED?
I wore out that original “Clifford Brown with Strings” album. Clifford was a big change in my life. I was really into people like Louis Armstrong and Roy Eldridge, then one day I heard my dad playing Clifford Brown’s Basin Street album. I’m walking through the living room and I hear this trumpet on “What Is This Thing Called Love?” and he takes four attempts at the run and he finally gets it on the fourth. I realized “this guy is improvising,” because I seemed so technically perfect because it didn’t seem like jazz improvisation. Lights went off in my head and it changed me forever.
I got into all those Clifford Brown and Max Roach Quintet albums, and then the beauty of the “Strings” album; here you go getting back to romanticism. I used to play that every night, with the turntable on “Repeat.” That opening with “Laura”…Oh My God!
YOUR HEART ALSO GOT TOUCHED BY SOMEONE NOT USUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH ROMANTIC MOODS, CHARLIE PARKER
I’ve listened to many people trying to do versions of Charlie Parker with Strings, and they all get it wrong. I was just listening to one this morning and they’re just playing bebop.
If you read the history as to why Bird wanted to play with strings you see that it was a romantic endeavor. His album is loaded with romanticism. Yes, he’s playing his runs, but he’s playing them with such beauty. It’s not a bebop album.
Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker are the alpha and omega of jazz. That’s how Miles Davis summarized it. Two names.
DID YOU EVER MEET MILES DAVIS?
I met him when I was 13 years old at Birdland. I had done the Ted Mack Show, and then went to Birdland. Back then, you could sit back at a section that they used to call “The Bleachers.” If you were underage, there was a place that you could sit and not drink.
I primarily went to hear Maynard Ferguson, because my dad was making mouthpieces for him. I was also a big fan of his powerhouse playing. But Miles was on the bill with John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderley. That band turned my head around.
After he finished his set, I went over to the bandstand to look at his trumpet. Suddenly his head pops up from behind the curtain! He says “What are ya doing!!” I told him, “I’m looking at your trumpet; I’m a trumpet player” and he goes, “uh, ok.”
SO, AFTER THESE ROMANTIC ALBUMS, WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS?
I have a real good friend in New York who’s a double reed player, Bob Magnussen. I’m working on the tenor sax, something that I have had a love for since I was a kid but never had the time, even though I’ve done the Stan Getz and Ben Webster albums. I still have stuff I want to do on tenor.
My parents once had a jazz club. I would play there every week and hit it with Bobby Timmons and Tommy Flanagan, Ray Bryant. In my head, I have that early 60s “Prestige Rudy Van Gelder” sound in my head; those tenor players like Gene Ammons, Sonny Stitt and early Sonny Rollins. That’s the kind of album I want to do now.
IF YOU WERE A TEACHER AND A STUDENT CAME UP TO YOU FOR ADVICE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?
I actually have a class here at Moorpark College of Jazz Program . What I need to get these guys to think is, “you can play any kind of music that you want. You want to play fusion, Dave Koz, Kenny G, I don’t care. But, whatever you play, you’ve GOT to learn the melody.
No matter what you play, if you can play the melody, anything you play will have more depth.
ATTITUDES AND VIEWS LIKE THIS ARE NOT IN FAVOR ANYMORE, WHICH IS WHY THIS ARTICLE IS SO IMPORTANT. IF YOU HAVE EVER SEEN THE MUSICAL ‘JOSEPH AND HIS AMAZING TECHNICOLOR COAT’, YOU KNOW OF THE YOUNG MAN WHO CHANGED THE PHAROAH OF EGYPT’S HEART. UNFORTUNATELY, AS THE BIBLE POINTS OUT ‘THERE WAS A N EW KING, WHO DID NOT KNOW JOSEPH.’
THE PROBLEM WITH EACH NEW GENERATION IS THAT IT IS ABLE TO EASILY FORGET THE LESSONS LEARNED FROM THE PREVIOUS ONE. WE SEE THAT IN RELIGION, IN POLITICS, IN FAMILY AND IN MUSIC. GLENN ZOTTOLA IS A LIVING LESSON IN WHAT IS IMPORTANT IN MUSIC. TAKE SOME TIME TO LISTEN TO HIS 3-5 MINUTE LESSONS ON EACH OF HIS ALBUMS.